Ryanair - 6
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Calm down boys!!
I am no fan of Ryanair, but not because of what they offer, rather that their position in the market is now so strong that lots of other airline have followed them down market and i don't just mean price, the problem is for many is that it leaves a bad taste, one only has to watch the police trying to defuse some situation where and ordinary Joe has blown his stack beacuse Ryanair want to charge him £30 to bring on board the oversized piece of Chocolate that he has bought his Daughter in the terminal, in the longer term this puts people of travelling
The other thing is that the Goverment have watched MOL build up 60m paxs or what ever and thought com on Darling we will have some of that, who knows where it will end?
If you take the name away (Ryanair) and talk about a modern fleet of aircraft that fly's to many of the places you want or need to go to and more than afew you've never heard of that are 99% on time and have 99%+ despatch rate it should be a good business to be in? sure the passenger would like a little (or a lot) more TLC but they have yet to demonstrate that they are willing to pay for it? until someone comes along with with a viable alternative that has a lower seat cost per Km then i don't see it, Jet2 must be close with the 757 given their wage cost, but that won't work on every route and not every small airport can handle a 757 unless they find a way of putting airstais on them!!!
The other thing is that the Goverment have watched MOL build up 60m paxs or what ever and thought com on Darling we will have some of that, who knows where it will end?
If you take the name away (Ryanair) and talk about a modern fleet of aircraft that fly's to many of the places you want or need to go to and more than afew you've never heard of that are 99% on time and have 99%+ despatch rate it should be a good business to be in? sure the passenger would like a little (or a lot) more TLC but they have yet to demonstrate that they are willing to pay for it? until someone comes along with with a viable alternative that has a lower seat cost per Km then i don't see it, Jet2 must be close with the 757 given their wage cost, but that won't work on every route and not every small airport can handle a 757 unless they find a way of putting airstais on them!!!
Last edited by INKJET; 22nd Jul 2009 at 17:57.
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A lot of people here say the market is getting saturated. I don't know. But what gets my attention is the fact that Ryanair is so much bigger in the UK and Ireland then in the rest of Europe. Imagine that Ryanair was so big on the continent as they are on the isles, if you view it like that it seems there's ample space for growth?
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In response to Jippie's post, and to use Germany as an example, there are a number of German Loco's operating to/from mainstream airports such as CGN and DUS, meanwhile there's an Irish tin pot operator operating to/from a village airfield named Hahn!
Last year I needed to get a guy from DUS or CGN area to FCO and back, I checked the LoCo's from Dus, CGN etc. and guess who the lowest cost of the carriers was? ..... Swiss from DUS!
Last year I needed to get a guy from DUS or CGN area to FCO and back, I checked the LoCo's from Dus, CGN etc. and guess who the lowest cost of the carriers was? ..... Swiss from DUS!
Jippie - there are a lot more people living in cold, grey and wet northern Europe wanting to visit warm, sunny and dry southern Europe for a weekend - Sicily for a weekend is more appealing to a resident of Dusseldorf compared to the reverse.
Furthermore, northern Europe (UK, Netherlands, Germany) tend to have greater disposable income compared to other parts of Europe and can thus afford those weekend trips away.
All this implies that an LCC is, all other things being equal, often better off basing more (but not all) of its fleet in NW Europe, than elsewhere
Furthermore, northern Europe (UK, Netherlands, Germany) tend to have greater disposable income compared to other parts of Europe and can thus afford those weekend trips away.
All this implies that an LCC is, all other things being equal, often better off basing more (but not all) of its fleet in NW Europe, than elsewhere
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davidjohnson6; you support my point. There's more in Northern Europe then the UK&Ireland for example Scandinavia, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands.
Let's compare the number of based aircraft in a country and the number of inhabitants, not the best comparison but it will give you an idea.
UK: 75 based planes, 1 per 0,82 million people.
Ireland: 23 based planes, 1 per 0,26 million people.
Norway: 0 based planes, but that's not an EU country.
Sweden: 6 based planes, 1 per 1,54 million people.
Finland: 0 based planes, Why?
Denmark: 0 based planes, Why?
Germany: 20 based planes, 1 per 4,10 million people.
Belgium: 8 based planes, 1 per 1,33 million people.
Netherlands: 0 based planes, only because of a night curfew at Eindhoven?
The difference is huge, when we compare the UK and Germany for example we see that Germany has 5 times less based planes per million people. While I think both markets are pretty similar, wealthy countries, not much inbound tourism, and healthy LCC competition(EasyJet, BmiBaby and a lot of charter airlines in the UK and the likes of EasyJet, Germanwings and TUIfly in Germany)
Let's compare the number of based aircraft in a country and the number of inhabitants, not the best comparison but it will give you an idea.
UK: 75 based planes, 1 per 0,82 million people.
Ireland: 23 based planes, 1 per 0,26 million people.
Norway: 0 based planes, but that's not an EU country.
Sweden: 6 based planes, 1 per 1,54 million people.
Finland: 0 based planes, Why?
Denmark: 0 based planes, Why?
Germany: 20 based planes, 1 per 4,10 million people.
Belgium: 8 based planes, 1 per 1,33 million people.
Netherlands: 0 based planes, only because of a night curfew at Eindhoven?
The difference is huge, when we compare the UK and Germany for example we see that Germany has 5 times less based planes per million people. While I think both markets are pretty similar, wealthy countries, not much inbound tourism, and healthy LCC competition(EasyJet, BmiBaby and a lot of charter airlines in the UK and the likes of EasyJet, Germanwings and TUIfly in Germany)
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I would suggest that Germany has less based planes because the Germans consider Frankfurt/Hahn as much of a joke as the rest of us do!
There's only so many people that want to travel from a village that's in the middle of nowhere.
There's only so many people that want to travel from a village that's in the middle of nowhere.
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Let's include the non Northern European countries which have Ryanair bases then.
Spain: 26 based aircraft, 1 per 1,79 million people.
France: 4 based aircraft, 1 per 16,27 million people, but that's probably because the Irish contracts are still in French court.
Italy: 29 based aircraft, 1 per 2,07 million people.
Spain: 26 based aircraft, 1 per 1,79 million people.
France: 4 based aircraft, 1 per 16,27 million people, but that's probably because the Irish contracts are still in French court.
Italy: 29 based aircraft, 1 per 2,07 million people.
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There are a mass of very different cultures across the continent, many of whom whilst welcoming low fares and competition do NOT go for the "cheaps as chips and eff off when things go wrong" approach taken by Ryanair in the same way we do.
Aside from the fact that we in the UK take air travel in the same way that some people do crack......
Aside from the fact that we in the UK take air travel in the same way that some people do crack......
Aside from the fact that we in the UK take air travel in the same way that some people do crack......
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Irony? Is it that this airline which alot of posters here don't like, yet they the flying harp is still growing and helping the economy? Is it that pro EI supporters can't help but throw mud knowing that very soon those scarebuses are out and Aer Laughable i mean Aer Lingus will be slapped on the side of a 737-8AS?
EI shares did effect the financial performance. Passengers are voting on their feet so why is it that forward bookings on routes are up? Why is it that those EI pilots who turned investors now need to give a bit of dough to the banks, is it that those pesky shares aren't performing well in an airline that is losing blood pressure?
EI shares did effect the financial performance. Passengers are voting on their feet so why is it that forward bookings on routes are up? Why is it that those EI pilots who turned investors now need to give a bit of dough to the banks, is it that those pesky shares aren't performing well in an airline that is losing blood pressure?
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super737,
I have travelled with KLM, on and off, for years and there came a time that I was travelling KBP to AMS with KLM except that I was ticketed with Ukraine International on a codeshare with KLM.
Despite travelling economy I had been entitled to UIA's business class lounge in KBP and had fallen out of there before departure with an intact bottle of beer in my pocket ..... as one does
When KLM came round with the trolley I asked for a beer only to have it explained to me that they no longer served alcohol in economy and despite there being a 'party' going on the other side of the curtain in business class.
With that I asked for just the plastic cup and, thereafter, poured and drank the one beer I had brought with me only to be 'bollocked' by the F/A for daring to consume alcohol in their economy class!
Had I been travelling with UIA, and I know the tricks, providing that I had ordered Slavutich beer the crew would be so complimented that I wanted to drink Ukrainian beer I could have had as many as I liked.
After that KLM experience not only did I boycott KLM but I wrote a complaint to UIA that if they are to codeshare then don't codeshare with such tin pot outfits as KLM etc.
When I eventually, through lack of choice, returned to KLM they had reintroduced alcohol in to economy class, in informal conversation with one of their stewards he had told me that bookings had been so down since the withdrawal of alcohol that KLM had been forced in to reintroducing it.
Likewise for FR, they can treat their customers like cattle, charge 7p or 8p per minute to wait on a telephone for hours that may never be answered, rip us off for stale sandwiches and warm beer, charge us whatever for going to the loo, seat us in an uncomfortable and putrid coloured seat that don't recline, advertise that we are flying to a city that we are flying nowhere near to etc. but ..... don't expect us to be returning anytime soon!
I hasten to add I have only flown with FR once, well twice allowing for there and back, and that is because my ultimate destination was Vasteras where only FR fly to. It was so bad that when I needed to return to Vasteras a matter of weeks later I preferred to fly to ARN and surface transport it across to Vasteras.
I have travelled with KLM, on and off, for years and there came a time that I was travelling KBP to AMS with KLM except that I was ticketed with Ukraine International on a codeshare with KLM.
Despite travelling economy I had been entitled to UIA's business class lounge in KBP and had fallen out of there before departure with an intact bottle of beer in my pocket ..... as one does
When KLM came round with the trolley I asked for a beer only to have it explained to me that they no longer served alcohol in economy and despite there being a 'party' going on the other side of the curtain in business class.
With that I asked for just the plastic cup and, thereafter, poured and drank the one beer I had brought with me only to be 'bollocked' by the F/A for daring to consume alcohol in their economy class!
Had I been travelling with UIA, and I know the tricks, providing that I had ordered Slavutich beer the crew would be so complimented that I wanted to drink Ukrainian beer I could have had as many as I liked.
After that KLM experience not only did I boycott KLM but I wrote a complaint to UIA that if they are to codeshare then don't codeshare with such tin pot outfits as KLM etc.
When I eventually, through lack of choice, returned to KLM they had reintroduced alcohol in to economy class, in informal conversation with one of their stewards he had told me that bookings had been so down since the withdrawal of alcohol that KLM had been forced in to reintroducing it.
Likewise for FR, they can treat their customers like cattle, charge 7p or 8p per minute to wait on a telephone for hours that may never be answered, rip us off for stale sandwiches and warm beer, charge us whatever for going to the loo, seat us in an uncomfortable and putrid coloured seat that don't recline, advertise that we are flying to a city that we are flying nowhere near to etc. but ..... don't expect us to be returning anytime soon!
I hasten to add I have only flown with FR once, well twice allowing for there and back, and that is because my ultimate destination was Vasteras where only FR fly to. It was so bad that when I needed to return to Vasteras a matter of weeks later I preferred to fly to ARN and surface transport it across to Vasteras.
I would suggest that Germany has less based planes because the Germans consider Frankfurt/Hahn as much of a joke as the rest of us do!
There's only so many people that want to travel from a village that's in the middle of nowhere.
There's only so many people that want to travel from a village that's in the middle of nowhere.
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Bloody hell Fogg , your standards are a bit high there.its a bloody seat for gods sake.You are in the minority anyway.Most people would stand if they got to there destination for free.
Its a bit like this -
1.You get a taxi home in a crap old ford car - 20 quid
2.You get a limo home - 60 quid
Yes the limo might be a 'nicer' experience , but most people would rather just get to there destination modestly and spend the money they saved on booze,gambling,clothes,accomodation,rental car,restaurants etc.
especially in this climate , people will be more tight with there cash.
I suppose you loved the good ole days when it was a couple of hundred quid to get over the irish sea,and enjoy a 'class' experience.And get your little goody bag with crayollas and fun packs for the kids,and a free pillow.Well im afraid in this day and age of high mortgages,double income families,social pressure( ' people view having 2 cars a necessity !'),mad inflation,food cost rising,car park fees,mad school fees,utility costs,hair cuts for the kids etc etc . People are not willing to harp back to those days.Basically the majority are willing to trade 'class' for much lower cost.And it isnt just the 'lower classes'.People of all backgrounds have the attitude - 'why pay 125 quid to get to stansted,when i can pay 70?'
Simple , unless your loaded.But even so,its the principle for many people - even the wealthy.why pay more when i can pay less???
Its a bit like this -
1.You get a taxi home in a crap old ford car - 20 quid
2.You get a limo home - 60 quid
Yes the limo might be a 'nicer' experience , but most people would rather just get to there destination modestly and spend the money they saved on booze,gambling,clothes,accomodation,rental car,restaurants etc.
especially in this climate , people will be more tight with there cash.
I suppose you loved the good ole days when it was a couple of hundred quid to get over the irish sea,and enjoy a 'class' experience.And get your little goody bag with crayollas and fun packs for the kids,and a free pillow.Well im afraid in this day and age of high mortgages,double income families,social pressure( ' people view having 2 cars a necessity !'),mad inflation,food cost rising,car park fees,mad school fees,utility costs,hair cuts for the kids etc etc . People are not willing to harp back to those days.Basically the majority are willing to trade 'class' for much lower cost.And it isnt just the 'lower classes'.People of all backgrounds have the attitude - 'why pay 125 quid to get to stansted,when i can pay 70?'
Simple , unless your loaded.But even so,its the principle for many people - even the wealthy.why pay more when i can pay less???
Join Date: Aug 2007
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MOL stated about 4 years ago that he would be stepping down within 2 years, saying that people would be fed up of him at that stage and he had other plans. I think it might be a mistake that he didn't follow through with it. Ryanair are badly in need of a fresh outlook. I agree with much of what has been said wrt Ryanair's attitude towards its customers.