Ryanair - 6
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45989
Southwest is a domestic airline so not that comparible.
Fogg
To pick on Ryanair in a recession is perhaps deflecting
the spotlight from full service airlines and how they are
doing ie: BA.
super737
If you own a dictionary look up the word 'Irony/Ironic'
MM
Southwest is a domestic airline so not that comparible.
Fogg
To pick on Ryanair in a recession is perhaps deflecting
the spotlight from full service airlines and how they are
doing ie: BA.
super737
If you own a dictionary look up the word 'Irony/Ironic'
MM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I always find the views of some of the anti-Ryan posters on here amusing. 
Maybe it is because they are mostly British and only see the would from a UK point of view. This is probably why Ryanair, being Irish has been so successful over the last decade.
They expanded into the EU market while the economic party was going on. Now they have Very Strong presence in overseas markets, ie Spain and Italy, where up to now the Legacy Carriers had enjoyed an almost monopoly position.
One only has to sit on the ramp in CAG or BGY or CIA and see the thousands of Italian passengers boarding to understand, Ryanair is the right airline in the right place at the right time. The people have a desire to travel at the lowest prices.
The posters on here think that taking chavs from EMA to ALC is the only type of customer? Most Latin ryanair routes have people traveling for business, to second homes, to visit relatives and school trips are very popular.
In fact I spent a very pleasant flight from HHN-STN some years ago as a pax. Next to me where 3 USAF pilots, traveling to their F15 simulator recurrent in Laken Heath.
Personally I think the bloodbath is about to start. All airlines are looking to Ryanair to see how much they make or lose. Because only airlines or businesses with the lowest costs will survive.
Maybe it is because they are mostly British and only see the would from a UK point of view. This is probably why Ryanair, being Irish has been so successful over the last decade.
They expanded into the EU market while the economic party was going on. Now they have Very Strong presence in overseas markets, ie Spain and Italy, where up to now the Legacy Carriers had enjoyed an almost monopoly position.
One only has to sit on the ramp in CAG or BGY or CIA and see the thousands of Italian passengers boarding to understand, Ryanair is the right airline in the right place at the right time. The people have a desire to travel at the lowest prices.
The posters on here think that taking chavs from EMA to ALC is the only type of customer? Most Latin ryanair routes have people traveling for business, to second homes, to visit relatives and school trips are very popular.
In fact I spent a very pleasant flight from HHN-STN some years ago as a pax. Next to me where 3 USAF pilots, traveling to their F15 simulator recurrent in Laken Heath.
Personally I think the bloodbath is about to start. All airlines are looking to Ryanair to see how much they make or lose. Because only airlines or businesses with the lowest costs will survive.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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MM
A reasonable point.
I've traveled with both, chalk and cheese is the kindest interpretation
one could arrive at.
ryr is in geographical terms a minnow
Yes Southwest is a US domestic carrier but their spread is bigger
AND A SMILE COMES FREE
A reasonable point.
I've traveled with both, chalk and cheese is the kindest interpretation
one could arrive at.
ryr is in geographical terms a minnow
Yes Southwest is a US domestic carrier but their spread is bigger
AND A SMILE COMES FREE
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I fly for leisure with Ryanair a lot and continue to make new bookings. However, I'm finding myself refusing to pay FR the kind of money which they will need to make a profit.
I'm not quite sure what RYR are doing wrong, but when value perceptions end up like this, it can't bode well for profitability
I'm not quite sure what RYR are doing wrong, but when value perceptions end up like this, it can't bode well for profitability
What FR is doing, it's a kind of negative (from their point of view) selection of their customers. Nothing against Ryanair pax. They are simply smart enough to avoid paying much for their tickets. Good for them, not good for the carrier. Many of potential (and so needed) NEW customers will resign during the booking process as they cannot understand why the promised price have risen so much before the credit card is to be charged.
Well its cheap, after all (or is it?). But what the customer takes away is the memory of a DEEPLY UNPLEASANT experience. And this travel was purchased as part of a *FUN* weekend away?
The industry must accept that a significant proportion of the travelers who have experienced all this are simply not coming back.
The industry must accept that a significant proportion of the travelers who have experienced all this are simply not coming back.
The product must change
Other changes, however, need not to cost much. Like re-shaping the schedules.
Very reluctant to offer connecting flights? It's a baseless fear, preventing FR from achieving better load factors and yields. But even without any official connecting flights they do realize how many pax actually uses them spontaneously. Why not help them by improving the schedules, making ”home-made” connections more suitable and logical.
Everyone in Essex has now been to Lubeck as much as they wish
Increasingly, customers are NOT ENJOYING their short break / vacation experience when traveling with no-frills carriers. Rightly or wrongly, they feel hacked off / cheated by the booking process with large hidden charges appearing at all stages, and devious website tricks which insert insurance, baggage and seat selection charges (which have to be individually deselected again). Then come the shocking credit card charges (per person)(...)
But after all. Having hundreds of improvements in mind, I have also my own, well-paid job. So try to invent a bit more yourself, dear FR.
Yes Southwest is a US domestic carrier but their spread is bigger
Southwest operates from 68 Airports, Countries served 1, 448 connections, 546 aircraft (make that 545 after the new window in the roof last week), average length of route 846 miles, 101 million passengers carried or 182,000 per aircraft, languages required 2.
Ryanair operates from 149 Airports, Countries served 25, 888 connections, 196 aircraft (latest), average length of route 749 miles, 60 million passengers carried or 306,000 per aircraft, languages required 20 plus.
Why let facts get in the way of your bias.
Ryanair made an operational profit of €105 Million excluding exceptional write down of Shareholding in EI which has no impact on Cash
Southwest made operational profit of $178 Million and had no write downs but they have just announced at half year they made a loss in 2009.
Southwest made operational profit of $178 Million and had no write downs but they have just announced at half year they made a loss in 2009.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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mickyman,
I'm not picking on anybody, I'm merely speaking my opinion based on my 30 years in the industry, recession or not my opinion of FR has remained the same for many years and my opinion of FR is a slight improvement upon my opinion of BA.
And as for F14's naive comment (above), we are not all cheapskates, he claims that only the airlines with the lowest costs will survive, what bullsh1t.
The airlines that offer a quality of service combined with maintaining costs to a minimum are likely to be the ones that prosper and I do not regard being boarded like cattle from pens, seat backs that do not recline, rip off prices for stale sandwiches and warm beer a quality of service, I regard it as a bl00dy disgrace.
Call me old fashioned, and I am not alone, but when I travel I will shop around, online, for the best price combined with the best flight times, I like to check-in online whilst selecting my seat number, without being charged extra, I like to arrive at my most convenient airport, a hastle free check-in of baggage, a stress free boarding of the aircraft to my seat and a nice pleasant cabin service, in a seat that reclines, whilst relaxing with an inclusive meal and drink and these levels of service are not provided by any of the LoCo's, not just FR.
I'm not picking on anybody, I'm merely speaking my opinion based on my 30 years in the industry, recession or not my opinion of FR has remained the same for many years and my opinion of FR is a slight improvement upon my opinion of BA.
And as for F14's naive comment (above), we are not all cheapskates, he claims that only the airlines with the lowest costs will survive, what bullsh1t.
The airlines that offer a quality of service combined with maintaining costs to a minimum are likely to be the ones that prosper and I do not regard being boarded like cattle from pens, seat backs that do not recline, rip off prices for stale sandwiches and warm beer a quality of service, I regard it as a bl00dy disgrace.
Call me old fashioned, and I am not alone, but when I travel I will shop around, online, for the best price combined with the best flight times, I like to check-in online whilst selecting my seat number, without being charged extra, I like to arrive at my most convenient airport, a hastle free check-in of baggage, a stress free boarding of the aircraft to my seat and a nice pleasant cabin service, in a seat that reclines, whilst relaxing with an inclusive meal and drink and these levels of service are not provided by any of the LoCo's, not just FR.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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PF,
Sorry I can only count 22 years in the industry. Maybe you could name one of this high class airlines, that you would travel on tomorrow?
I hear Privatair in Switzerland are very good.
Sorry I can only count 22 years in the industry. Maybe you could name one of this high class airlines, that you would travel on tomorrow?
I hear Privatair in Switzerland are very good.
Join Date: May 2006
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Although its fair to say that there are passengers out there who have a bad experience and then vow never to fly with the likes of ryr,ezy etc. again, they are way outnumbered by the millions around europe who understand how to work a simple booking process (albeit a little bit sneeky,) play the game and end up with a flight that is much cheaper than the alternative and more often than not more direct. I do not agree with all the hidden charges but the fact is even with all the charges the fare is usually much cheaper.
I've flown with a whole host of low cost airlines in the past few years including ryanair, baby, easy, flybe, aerlingus, germanwings etc.
Taking into account the factors that the vast majority (and not, it seems the minority on here,) of passengers care about like cost of the flight including all the extras, punctuality and reliability I have consistently found ryanair, easyjet and most of the others to be excellent.
Indeed even when something has gone wrong the experience has been far better than some I recall in years gone by when i've paid hundreds of pounds to fly with the 'flag carriers' including london (oh sorry, british,) airways through the absolute nightmare that is heathrow. Waiting weeks for your suitcase, damaged bags, delays that are consistently more frequent and longer, missing connections and almost always a much greater cost for the ticket.
I've flown with a whole host of low cost airlines in the past few years including ryanair, baby, easy, flybe, aerlingus, germanwings etc.
Taking into account the factors that the vast majority (and not, it seems the minority on here,) of passengers care about like cost of the flight including all the extras, punctuality and reliability I have consistently found ryanair, easyjet and most of the others to be excellent.
Indeed even when something has gone wrong the experience has been far better than some I recall in years gone by when i've paid hundreds of pounds to fly with the 'flag carriers' including london (oh sorry, british,) airways through the absolute nightmare that is heathrow. Waiting weeks for your suitcase, damaged bags, delays that are consistently more frequent and longer, missing connections and almost always a much greater cost for the ticket.
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F14,
Please don't try putting words in to my mouth such as "high class", an airline, any airline, does not need to be high class to be better than FR or some other LoCo's, they just need to be above 'gutter' level.
Airlines that I will readily and happily, and often do, travel with are Swiss, Austrian/Tyrolean, KLM (except that they can be tight with the refreshments), Lufthansa (but they can be lacking in personality), Ukraine International, MALEV Hungarian, SAS etc. etc. etc.
And as for recent (all inclusive) round trip fares that I have recently paid, well LHR-VIE-LED-VIE-LHR was GBP156, BHX-ZRH-FCO-ZRH-BHX was circa GBP130 with BHX-ZRH-MXP-ZRH-BHX being circa GBP120.
Please don't try putting words in to my mouth such as "high class", an airline, any airline, does not need to be high class to be better than FR or some other LoCo's, they just need to be above 'gutter' level.
Airlines that I will readily and happily, and often do, travel with are Swiss, Austrian/Tyrolean, KLM (except that they can be tight with the refreshments), Lufthansa (but they can be lacking in personality), Ukraine International, MALEV Hungarian, SAS etc. etc. etc.
And as for recent (all inclusive) round trip fares that I have recently paid, well LHR-VIE-LED-VIE-LHR was GBP156, BHX-ZRH-FCO-ZRH-BHX was circa GBP130 with BHX-ZRH-MXP-ZRH-BHX being circa GBP120.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Ah get off the stage Racedo. Fr made a loss, a loss. More money went out the door than came in. More money is continuing to go out the door as we post. Expensive aircraft are flying low load/yield passengers around expensive airspace and the management continue to waste shareholder value on playing some bigus dikus competition with Aer Lingus. The bid has failed twice is now blocked and the 29% stake Fr has built up stops any upward speculation. It lost all those millions playing a game it did not understand therefore Racedo, Fr are a loss making outfit. Ryanair losses money. Ryanair plc had more money at the start of the year than at the end. Stop defending the indefensible.
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It must be said that Ryanair don't help themselves wrt the PR game. By being the loud one, in order to get all the free publicity, they create a negative attitude towards themselves (outside of fares). If the airfares are all in the same ballpark, people will choose other factors when deciding who to fly with.
As it is, I booked an EI flight for 93 euro all in to LHR, rather than a 40 euro FR flight to STN because as well as the extra 20-30 euro for the train to Lpl Street, I feel more welcome on the EI flight at the time of booking. It brings to mind the old saying "be nice to the people on the way up, as you might meet them on the way down" !!!
As it is, I booked an EI flight for 93 euro all in to LHR, rather than a 40 euro FR flight to STN because as well as the extra 20-30 euro for the train to Lpl Street, I feel more welcome on the EI flight at the time of booking. It brings to mind the old saying "be nice to the people on the way up, as you might meet them on the way down" !!!
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Expensive aircraft are flying low load/yield passengers around expensive airspace and the management continue to waste shareholder value on playing some bigus dikus competition with Aer Lingus. The bid has failed twice is now blocked and the 29% stake Fr has built up stops any upward speculation. It lost all those millions playing a game it did not understand therefore Racedo, Fr are a loss making outfit. Ryanair losses money. Ryanair plc had more money at the start of the year than at the end. Stop defending the indefensible.
Low Load - Definitely Not.
Low Yield - Possibly.
Expensive Airspace - Possibly but the airports being flown to are certainly not.
"bigus dikus competition with Aer Lingus." - Possibly.
Debatable, without the money lost through the aerlingus 'exercise' a profit was actually made by the business.
(Edited to change my response to the loss making quote.)
Last edited by bigdaviet; 22nd Jul 2009 at 12:50.
Ah get off the stage Racedo. Fr made a loss, a loss. More money went out the door than came in.
Have a look at Page 7 as that is the one that shows how much cash in and out of the business and there was more cash IN than OUT.
Racedo. What planet are you on?
I suspect even in Blue and Yellowland your slant on things would be taken with a very large pinch of salt these days
I suspect even in Blue and Yellowland your slant on things would be taken with a very large pinch of salt these days