Ryanair - 6
Join Date: May 2006
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Just answering the queries regarding Beauvais and Torp:
Currently a Prestwick crew flies daily PIK-BVA-OPO-BVA-PIK as an 'early' day.
With Porto becoming a new base I believe that Porto crews will now be flying the OPO-BVA which is increasing to twice daily.
Haven't heard this officially, but by putting two together it seems that Prestwick crews will be flying PIK-BVA-Torp-BVA-PIK. All the times match up with the good old 25 minute turn around and it starts around the same time as the Porto base opens.
Currently a Prestwick crew flies daily PIK-BVA-OPO-BVA-PIK as an 'early' day.
With Porto becoming a new base I believe that Porto crews will now be flying the OPO-BVA which is increasing to twice daily.
Haven't heard this officially, but by putting two together it seems that Prestwick crews will be flying PIK-BVA-Torp-BVA-PIK. All the times match up with the good old 25 minute turn around and it starts around the same time as the Porto base opens.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ireland
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Noxegon, not sure what your local market is but over in Ireland there is just that sort of comparison to be made. Given a choice people want a competitively priced flight and good service. Aer Lingus has been filling its aircraft with eager passengers for some time. Ryanair have been able to stay in the game by subsidising its Irish operation with high fares charged on different sections of its network, but now the preasure is on there as well.
Squeezing Aer Arran off Cork/Dublin and claiming he's competeing succesfully with ATR's on a 30minute low density flight, who does he think he's kidding (other than the authorities).
Now he threatens to shrink if eveyone does'nt play ball, who gives a toss, shrink away pal and allow competative airlines with healthy saftey cultures and happy employies into the market. To the poor crews who's lives he plays with to make the news I sincerily hope you find employement with the airlines that will fill the void.
Squeezing Aer Arran off Cork/Dublin and claiming he's competeing succesfully with ATR's on a 30minute low density flight, who does he think he's kidding (other than the authorities).
Now he threatens to shrink if eveyone does'nt play ball, who gives a toss, shrink away pal and allow competative airlines with healthy saftey cultures and happy employies into the market. To the poor crews who's lives he plays with to make the news I sincerily hope you find employement with the airlines that will fill the void.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
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For once i agree with MOL.The UK taxes are driving away customers at all airlines at an alarming rate.
Whilst admitting Ryanair has opened up a new breed of customers, has these new day trippers /week enders now started to desert the airline they once built up ?
Dan Air and the likes could chop 30% of its flights by parking their already paid for aircraft at Lasham
Where are Ryanair going to park theirs ?
Whilst admitting Ryanair has opened up a new breed of customers, has these new day trippers /week enders now started to desert the airline they once built up ?
Dan Air and the likes could chop 30% of its flights by parking their already paid for aircraft at Lasham
Where are Ryanair going to park theirs ?
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
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Should we paint on our planes 'Bye Bye Ryanair'?
It's become so awful positioning crews around on Ryanair we have stopped using them altogether. Nightmare.
It's become so awful positioning crews around on Ryanair we have stopped using them altogether. Nightmare.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Right. Given the fact that BA is effectively closing most of its services apart from at LHR then BA is no longer an option for the majority of people in the UK.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Isn't it at times like this MOL paints messages on his planes? Time for other airlines at Stansted to paint 'Bye Bye Ryanair!' in BIG letters.
What goes around comes around!
What goes around comes around!
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Now the planes are just grounded showing that the true reason is no demand anywhere. Well how come Ryanair havnt opened a huge base in any of these countries recently? No Demand - simple explanation.
Without any doubt, they've made a tremendous work to achieve the low cost base. They made a great (albeit controversial) work negotiating with the airports, stoke good deals with them, have succeeded in keeping costs low across the board. Having ace up their sleeve they simply forgot something. Long ago, FR should have start thinking more about the needs of their customers.
Technically, for pax the cost reduction means nothing (how it's been achieved). Pax will look for a carrier that is not only cheap, but also kind of... more subtle, friendly, providing more versatile connections all over the continent (to give pax opportunity to travel where they want, not FR), sympathetic, caring. While the final ticket price does mean much, it shouldn't be the only reason to travel. It doesn't cost so much to use some other marketing tools, they cannot be neglected. The magic of cheapness is not enough to fill the planes, many people would love to fly inexpensively, but are unable to accept this kind of cheap propaganda and general attitudes offered by FR.
The demand is weak nowadays, true. The war between carriers to get more pax in spite of market stagnation cannot rely on low prices alone. In fact, such extremely one-sided policy seemingly diminishes the carrier's prospects. Ryanair still could grow, but a radical face-lifting operation is required.
You could equally say that the skids are under BA. Are any of you out there actually brave enough to buy BA shares right now in any serious quantity? My investment managers have told me not to touch BA shares with a barge pole.
Sadly, I think they are on the slippery slope.
Sadly, I think they are on the slippery slope.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
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Ah times are tough alright. Why not throw in another extra month of unpaid leave as well. All hands to the pumps boys. As "Europes highest paying airline" I am sure the lads won't mind stumping up for their command training to help MOL through this little rough patch. Although I am not quite sure how the bank manager will feel. What with the Oxford integrated fees and another 30k on top for the type rating and the possibility of a lean spell then the prospect of a bad credit rating could be looming. Never fear though we are all hoping for the best for you guys and gals.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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According to the 2001 census 8 million people in the South East and 7 million in London so out of a poulation of 60 million i believe thats is a quarter, hardly a majority.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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On the Plunge in Demand for No-Frills Travel ...
It is very easy to pick out certain obvious explanations for the current demand weakness afflicting products such as those offered by Ryanair. Government taxes, airport development fees, security hassles, environmental impact concerns, worries about the economy/unemployment, actual reduction in personal incomes, and so on. But I would suggest that the high awareness of these particular factors (and I would not wish to underplay their importance in any way) is obscuring another major reason for the drop in demand.
Companies such as Ryanair attract significant 'VFR' [Visiting Friends & Relations] traffic (which should hold up), a healthy proportion of the (declining) migrant workers market, and afew business travelers. But a key proportion of the sector is comprised of people who travel purely for leisure: to enjoy a holiday, whether in the form of a short break or two weeks in the Med. The crucial factor here is that the customers must actually ENJOY the travel experience if they are to become a reliable source of repeat business. These trips are discretionary and that has become a real problem.
Increasingly, customers are NOT ENJOYING their short break / vacation experience when traveling with no-frills carriers. Rightly or wrongly, they feel hacked off / cheated by the booking process with large hidden charges appearing at all stages, and devious website tricks which insert insurance, baggage and seat selection charges (which have to be individually deselected again). Then come the shocking credit card charges (per person)! At check-in (another fee) they face confrontation instead of the friendly welcome of years past. Service with a snarl, more charges for excess/outsize baggage (at usurious rates), and a 'fine' for forgetting to print a boarding card etc. We could argue that these charges are avoidable and the passengers "should have known", and that all is fair. But the customers' opinion is unequivocal: "We've just been ripped off ... big time!"
Next they must endure the treat that is 2009 airport security. Queues, resealable plastic bags (£1 each, please!), shoe x-rays, searches, confiscations of shampoo/toothpaste etc (which the passengers perceive as utterly ridiculous). So they arrive - stressed and harassed - in the departure lounge. Perhaps they then nip into an airport shop to purchase a gift or a snack for their flight. Then to gate.
More confrontation therapy. The gift/snack you bought doesn't fit within your one bag! Leave it behind or pay a punitive fee for your bag to be stowed in the hold. Then finally they can join the rugby-scrum boarding experience for those knee-shredding seats! And if they're really lucky - having paid £10 extra to be in the first 90 passengers to board (!!!!!), they may find themselves crushed at the back of a standing-room only bus to a remote stand, co-mingling with their more tight-walleted brethren. Then all they have to cope with is the relentless noise pollution onboard with those childish announcements and irritating commercials.
We in the industry can - and on these discussion boards, often do - justify all these components. Well its cheap, after all (or is it?). But what the customer takes away is the memory of a DEEPLY UNPLEASANT experience. And this travel was purchased as part of a *FUN* weekend away?
The industry must accept that a significant proportion of the travelers who have experienced all this are simply not coming back. Many people I know who have healthy salaries, no economic worries and high disposable incomes are telling me exactly this: they no longer enjoy the short-break holiday by air (and have stopped buying). They are opting for upmarket hotels in the UK, or ferry/Eurostar based trips. And they are LIKING what they have found / re-discovered.
The Ryanair model has been so successful in attracting travelers in the past based purely on the lowest displayed price that most of their major competitors have been forced (or willingly chose) to adopt the same practices. Whether it is BMI Baby, FlyBe, EasyJet, Jet2, hey - even Monarch, these insidious hidden charges and check-in confrontations now prevail across the board. Many key leisure routes no longer offer any quality choice which more affluent customers consider civilised. They aren't compelled to purchase travel (some property-owners excepted) - so just maybe they won't bother. Why book a 'pleasure' trip which is a source of fear, hassle and apprehension? Gone are the days of "looking forward" to the hols.
"Weekend in Prague, Dear?"
"Hell, no thanks. Let's just go back to that nice hotel we found in the Lake District!"
It isn't just the economy which is grounding all those 737's.
All comments and observations welcome. SHED.
Companies such as Ryanair attract significant 'VFR' [Visiting Friends & Relations] traffic (which should hold up), a healthy proportion of the (declining) migrant workers market, and afew business travelers. But a key proportion of the sector is comprised of people who travel purely for leisure: to enjoy a holiday, whether in the form of a short break or two weeks in the Med. The crucial factor here is that the customers must actually ENJOY the travel experience if they are to become a reliable source of repeat business. These trips are discretionary and that has become a real problem.
Increasingly, customers are NOT ENJOYING their short break / vacation experience when traveling with no-frills carriers. Rightly or wrongly, they feel hacked off / cheated by the booking process with large hidden charges appearing at all stages, and devious website tricks which insert insurance, baggage and seat selection charges (which have to be individually deselected again). Then come the shocking credit card charges (per person)! At check-in (another fee) they face confrontation instead of the friendly welcome of years past. Service with a snarl, more charges for excess/outsize baggage (at usurious rates), and a 'fine' for forgetting to print a boarding card etc. We could argue that these charges are avoidable and the passengers "should have known", and that all is fair. But the customers' opinion is unequivocal: "We've just been ripped off ... big time!"
Next they must endure the treat that is 2009 airport security. Queues, resealable plastic bags (£1 each, please!), shoe x-rays, searches, confiscations of shampoo/toothpaste etc (which the passengers perceive as utterly ridiculous). So they arrive - stressed and harassed - in the departure lounge. Perhaps they then nip into an airport shop to purchase a gift or a snack for their flight. Then to gate.
More confrontation therapy. The gift/snack you bought doesn't fit within your one bag! Leave it behind or pay a punitive fee for your bag to be stowed in the hold. Then finally they can join the rugby-scrum boarding experience for those knee-shredding seats! And if they're really lucky - having paid £10 extra to be in the first 90 passengers to board (!!!!!), they may find themselves crushed at the back of a standing-room only bus to a remote stand, co-mingling with their more tight-walleted brethren. Then all they have to cope with is the relentless noise pollution onboard with those childish announcements and irritating commercials.
We in the industry can - and on these discussion boards, often do - justify all these components. Well its cheap, after all (or is it?). But what the customer takes away is the memory of a DEEPLY UNPLEASANT experience. And this travel was purchased as part of a *FUN* weekend away?
The industry must accept that a significant proportion of the travelers who have experienced all this are simply not coming back. Many people I know who have healthy salaries, no economic worries and high disposable incomes are telling me exactly this: they no longer enjoy the short-break holiday by air (and have stopped buying). They are opting for upmarket hotels in the UK, or ferry/Eurostar based trips. And they are LIKING what they have found / re-discovered.
The Ryanair model has been so successful in attracting travelers in the past based purely on the lowest displayed price that most of their major competitors have been forced (or willingly chose) to adopt the same practices. Whether it is BMI Baby, FlyBe, EasyJet, Jet2, hey - even Monarch, these insidious hidden charges and check-in confrontations now prevail across the board. Many key leisure routes no longer offer any quality choice which more affluent customers consider civilised. They aren't compelled to purchase travel (some property-owners excepted) - so just maybe they won't bother. Why book a 'pleasure' trip which is a source of fear, hassle and apprehension? Gone are the days of "looking forward" to the hols.
"Weekend in Prague, Dear?"
"Hell, no thanks. Let's just go back to that nice hotel we found in the Lake District!"
It isn't just the economy which is grounding all those 737's.
All comments and observations welcome. SHED.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Shed,
Couldn't agree with you more. Just retrurned from a trip to Italy to visit my daughter. Flight was by EasyJet from Bristol which was fine, but the airport hastle was a nightmare, both in the UK and in Italy. My wife's comment was " Last time we fly, next time we will drive down and make it part of our holidays" . How many others feel the same way?
Couldn't agree with you more. Just retrurned from a trip to Italy to visit my daughter. Flight was by EasyJet from Bristol which was fine, but the airport hastle was a nightmare, both in the UK and in Italy. My wife's comment was " Last time we fly, next time we will drive down and make it part of our holidays" . How many others feel the same way?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Shed, absolutely agree. Only thing I would add, is that it would be nice to return to the airport you thought you were going to and on the day you thought you were going. (bmibaby, that was for you).
I fly for leisure with Ryanair a lot (over 20 times so far this year) and continue to make new bookings. However, I'm finding myself refusing to pay FR the kind of money which they will need to make a profit.
Dublin return for £2 ? Yes, I'll have that. Dublin return for £20 ? No, that's too expensive
Return trip to Taiwan for £500 in November - yes, I'll have that.
Offer me a flight on EZY and I find myself rather more willing to spend some money. than RYR. I'm not quite sure what RYR are doing wrong, but when value perceptions end up like this, it can't bode well for profitability
Dublin return for £2 ? Yes, I'll have that. Dublin return for £20 ? No, that's too expensive
Return trip to Taiwan for £500 in November - yes, I'll have that.
Offer me a flight on EZY and I find myself rather more willing to spend some money. than RYR. I'm not quite sure what RYR are doing wrong, but when value perceptions end up like this, it can't bode well for profitability
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Headline ticket prices might be low but it's that feeling of being ripped off that is putting a nail in the Ryanair coffin. £10 credit card fees and being charged £5 to print off a compulsory boarding card on your own printer is doing them no favours. It puts me off from flying Ryanair. It wasn’t so long ago that I checked on their prices to Prestwick. Out of all the airlines flying London to Glasgow they came out the dearest for a late booking.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Shed.
I think it's wishful thinking that people are going to desert the sun destinations to freeze in the Lake District with nothing to do for the kids.
I went to Palma end of May with Jet2 and enjoyed the flight and the holiday, going to Benidorm on Monday and looking forward to some sun.
cyfarthfa.
If you enjoy your flight, yet can't stand the hassle of the airport - With respect you IMO should find some other mode of transport that will be stress free for you.
I remember my first flight form MAN to AGP and it was a nightmare, but over time you just take it in your stride things like the shuttle buses after a 3 hour flight.
As for Ryanairs plight - I notice yet again it's everyones fault but the MOL ex empire.
Won't be long before no frills airlines are as busy as ever, I remember well my last UK holiday to Pontings in 2004 (I think), and I had to get dressed in the middle of the night to keep warm.
That's the problem with UK holidays, to wet - to cold, unless you are very lucky - Folks just won't put up with that year in and year out.
I think it's wishful thinking that people are going to desert the sun destinations to freeze in the Lake District with nothing to do for the kids.
I went to Palma end of May with Jet2 and enjoyed the flight and the holiday, going to Benidorm on Monday and looking forward to some sun.
cyfarthfa.
If you enjoy your flight, yet can't stand the hassle of the airport - With respect you IMO should find some other mode of transport that will be stress free for you.
I remember my first flight form MAN to AGP and it was a nightmare, but over time you just take it in your stride things like the shuttle buses after a 3 hour flight.
As for Ryanairs plight - I notice yet again it's everyones fault but the MOL ex empire.
Won't be long before no frills airlines are as busy as ever, I remember well my last UK holiday to Pontings in 2004 (I think), and I had to get dressed in the middle of the night to keep warm.
That's the problem with UK holidays, to wet - to cold, unless you are very lucky - Folks just won't put up with that year in and year out.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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