LUTON - 6
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BAA Strikes
With the BAA strikes being confirmed as going ahead and Luton being the only major airport open of business. Could it play host to some of the major carriers for these days, in order to maintain some link to London?
I could imagine some airlines for example American Airlines or Continental could possibly take advantage and fly some 763's or 757's in from their East Coast hubs. Or possibly an Emirates A330-200 or 2...
I could imagine some airlines for example American Airlines or Continental could possibly take advantage and fly some 763's or 757's in from their East Coast hubs. Or possibly an Emirates A330-200 or 2...
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No room at the inn unfortunately!!
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If the BAA strike does happen, Luton could pick and choose its customers........traditional scheduled diverts, EIN, BMI, BAW etc or standard bread and butter of EZY & RYR??? Interesting how this will pan out.
As it is all known about it could be Max capacity all day and no departure problem because of congestion on the London TMA!!!
As it is all known about it could be Max capacity all day and no departure problem because of congestion on the London TMA!!!
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If Luton did take in diverted aircraft they would no doubt be on the ground for a lot longer as passengers would need to be bussed in from other airports. Also the handling agents would need to borrow staff from other airports to meet the demand. Luton would also suffer from cancelled flights as internal flights to Scottish Airports would be cancelled. The exotic aircraft, if any, would probably be Ryanair and easyjet aircraft that should have operated into Stansted.
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Luton: 1,989,430 passengers. 27,217 commercial movements.
Stansted: 262,747 passengers. 5,905 commercial movements.
Guess the year?
Hi Buster
I skirted quickly through the responses, but did we get an answer?? You appear to have a bit of a complex about STN and yes it is heavily dependent on low cost traffic, but I suspect you harp from an era that thought LTN would be Londons third Airport, get over it! A short runway perched on top of a hill v miles of flat Essex countryside, the choice was obvious.
Stansted: 262,747 passengers. 5,905 commercial movements.
Guess the year?
Hi Buster
I skirted quickly through the responses, but did we get an answer?? You appear to have a bit of a complex about STN and yes it is heavily dependent on low cost traffic, but I suspect you harp from an era that thought LTN would be Londons third Airport, get over it! A short runway perched on top of a hill v miles of flat Essex countryside, the choice was obvious.
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You appear to have a bit of a complex about STN
get over it!
I skirted quickly through the responses, but did we get an answer??
Instead of posting here can I suggest you buy this book. It will answer all your questions.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/07...pt#reader-link
.
Last edited by LTNman; 23rd Dec 2007 at 06:22.
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Due to a close connection with the man in my link above, I know why Ryanair moved to Stansted.
Passengers passing through Heathrow and Gatwick were allegedly subsidising the move East. Construction of the 'new' Stansted was paid for by airlines and passengers flying out of other London airports
Luton was never allowed to compete on equal terms due to Government policies, having sold the BAA off in 1987, it knowingly allowed what is now outlawed (cross subsidisation). The recent fee rises at Stansted are as a direct result of this being stopped at last.
You then have to add into the equation the fact that Luton Borough Council was unable to borrow large to invest in the development of its flagship.
Guess what?.......Shortly after LBC decided to go down the route of placing the airport out to concession, the Government lifted the restrictions on Local Authorities being able to borrow! Surely the fact that the BAA had full time lobbyists working in Westminster did not influence Government policy? Didn't someone get a peerage that was involved with the concession policy?
What I can say with full confidence is that Luton was never allowed to compete with Stansted equally.
Personally, the turning point came when Go-Fly came within a gnats whisker of commencing operations from Luton, but the golden carrot being dangled was too much to resist and Stansted became their home.
What is frustrating is that the concession has stifled development of Luton, to the point that if another large airline wanted to move their operation, the lack of infrastructure would probably make this impossible?
As per 'the short runway' - I honestly didn't realise that Ryanair could not take a full load to Malta from Luton..ha ha ha....
Chopper69, you are full of the stuff bears do copisly in the woods, you do keep us entertained though. I suggest you check history and the facts. Stansted became London's third airport not buy chance or location, but due to central Government collusion with the BAA (which it had once owned), in my educated opinion of course. Then again, what do old, scruffy and smelly bears know?
LTNman, I like the book..ha ha ha..!
Passengers passing through Heathrow and Gatwick were allegedly subsidising the move East. Construction of the 'new' Stansted was paid for by airlines and passengers flying out of other London airports
Luton was never allowed to compete on equal terms due to Government policies, having sold the BAA off in 1987, it knowingly allowed what is now outlawed (cross subsidisation). The recent fee rises at Stansted are as a direct result of this being stopped at last.
You then have to add into the equation the fact that Luton Borough Council was unable to borrow large to invest in the development of its flagship.
Guess what?.......Shortly after LBC decided to go down the route of placing the airport out to concession, the Government lifted the restrictions on Local Authorities being able to borrow! Surely the fact that the BAA had full time lobbyists working in Westminster did not influence Government policy? Didn't someone get a peerage that was involved with the concession policy?
What I can say with full confidence is that Luton was never allowed to compete with Stansted equally.
Personally, the turning point came when Go-Fly came within a gnats whisker of commencing operations from Luton, but the golden carrot being dangled was too much to resist and Stansted became their home.
What is frustrating is that the concession has stifled development of Luton, to the point that if another large airline wanted to move their operation, the lack of infrastructure would probably make this impossible?
As per 'the short runway' - I honestly didn't realise that Ryanair could not take a full load to Malta from Luton..ha ha ha....
Chopper69, you are full of the stuff bears do copisly in the woods, you do keep us entertained though. I suggest you check history and the facts. Stansted became London's third airport not buy chance or location, but due to central Government collusion with the BAA (which it had once owned), in my educated opinion of course. Then again, what do old, scruffy and smelly bears know?
LTNman, I like the book..ha ha ha..!
Interestingly, Luton Airport was built to serve a centre of population, the town from which it takes its name. Two of BAA's largest airports were built away from population centres (Stansted, ex-military) and Gatwick (to serve London without inflicting noise on its residents). Both of these airports were a result of central (Government) planning, which has been responsible for most of the disasters and white elephants this country has seen in the last half-century or so....
Obviously the Government(s) responsible then had to justify their decisions, and forced airline growth to these places, either by influence, legislation or bribery. In doing so, they disadvantaged a local initiative at Luton. I guess that's one reason why supporters of Luton are more vehement than the few supporters of these two BAA owned airports.
Obviously the Government(s) responsible then had to justify their decisions, and forced airline growth to these places, either by influence, legislation or bribery. In doing so, they disadvantaged a local initiative at Luton. I guess that's one reason why supporters of Luton are more vehement than the few supporters of these two BAA owned airports.
Last edited by LGS6753; 23rd Dec 2007 at 10:14. Reason: correction
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Glad to entertain you all! The point I was trying to make was that logically LTN was never in the running, plenty of passion, but realistically it is a reasonable regional Airport. I agree that the BAA had 'persuasion' that LTN did not have, eg buying up local housing at inflated prices and then renting them to their own staff, but . . . LTN is not designed to operate to a high frequency, there would be several thousand tonnes of earth required to even provide a parallel taxiway, let alone RET's and STN has??!! because it is flat with a huge area that it could expand to. I have worked at both Airports and know their particular qualities . . . have you??
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Basically LTN could never compete with STN because of its geographical set up. STN runway could be further extended past its current 2 miles and I have seen plans for a pair of parellel runways at STN, doesn't do much for some pretty Essex villages, but LTN couldn't even come close to the current STN potential. As I said before, get over it and back LTN for what it is good at, eg home to EZY/MON/TOM, a very good charter programme and fingers crossed, a successful UK premium carrier.
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Chopper, you are clearly out of your depth on this one and have no idea about the plans that were drawn up for a two runway, 30 million passenger airport at Luton that went for consultation on land south of the runway. I for one am glad that the airport operator appears to have dropped these plans for the moment as too much beautiful countryside would have been lost.
For me Stansted is the ideal choice for unlimited expansion. The airport is set in the flat featureless landscape of Essex with no aesthetic value and miles from anywhere of any consequence.
It’s a shame it has no fast transport links with anywhere but then it is out in the sticks.
What do you mean by describing Luton as a regional airport? It’s actually closer to London than Stansted.
Chopper you are so boring, now you have said your piece I hope it is goodbye.
For me Stansted is the ideal choice for unlimited expansion. The airport is set in the flat featureless landscape of Essex with no aesthetic value and miles from anywhere of any consequence.
It’s a shame it has no fast transport links with anywhere but then it is out in the sticks.
What do you mean by describing Luton as a regional airport? It’s actually closer to London than Stansted.
Chopper you are so boring, now you have said your piece I hope it is goodbye.
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As per 'the short runway' - I honestly didn't realise that Ryanair could not take a full load to Malta from Luton..ha ha ha....
I don't have technical data to hand, but I have used the LTN-MLA service about 4-5 times since its launch, and seen with my own eyes the outbound flight has had 100% load capacity on one of those occassions and on other times 90-95%. This is one very popular and well served route.
This route is a cash cow for Ryanair... Many of the people on the route are Maltese people travelling back home, as there is no other LCC on the London to Malta route.
On one of those occassions we took off from runway 26, without back tracking down the runway and this would only give about 5500ft of runway! I really don't think the runway is an issue for a 737-800 on routes to MLA.
The RAK route for FR is a similar distance and there are no restrictions on this service. Also TOM use the 737-800 to TLV on occassions, which is two hours further and in the summer to the Greek Islands and Cyprus with 100% loads...
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London's 3rd Airport
I actually recall London's third airport back in the 1970's was going to be located on a disused airfield in Buckinghamshire, near Cheddington (north of Aylesbury).
My parents at the time lived in Stewkley, and if the airport was built is was supposed to right on the flight path. They were active protesters, against the the new airport.
If "London Cheddington" airport had opened, I assume that would have been the nail in the coffin for LTN and would now be some industrial park on a hill in Luton.
My parents at the time lived in Stewkley, and if the airport was built is was supposed to right on the flight path. They were active protesters, against the the new airport.
If "London Cheddington" airport had opened, I assume that would have been the nail in the coffin for LTN and would now be some industrial park on a hill in Luton.
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It was always the plan under the then Labour government to close Luton. When Luton was heaving with 3.3 million passengers in 1973 and marquees had to be erected Labour still said no to expansion.
For a History lesson go to http://www.britishpathe.com/ and type in Luton Airport. Now register and download the free video clips. (It will show as an order but at no cost if you select the free preview option)
These are wonderful clips if you are into trips down memory lane.
For a History lesson go to http://www.britishpathe.com/ and type in Luton Airport. Now register and download the free video clips. (It will show as an order but at no cost if you select the free preview option)
These are wonderful clips if you are into trips down memory lane.
Last edited by LTNman; 24th Dec 2007 at 05:25.
As per 'the short runway' - I honestly didn't realise that Ryanair could not take a full load to Malta from Luton..ha ha ha....
Wakey Wakey. Buster was being sarcastic.
SW
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MaxJet Chapter 11
With MaxJet's ch 11 filing today there may soon be 5 second hand 767's on the market for Silverjet ! Does anyone know when Silverjet's next two are due to be delivered? Are MaxJet's 767's a similar type I wonder.
Will all the Apron expansion work be done by this date? - due to the massive fence they have installed at the back of the cargo apron it's hard to see how it's going.
Harrods new FBO opens at 06:00 on January 14th. Full details, maps etc on their harrodsaviation website.
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MaxJet Chapter 11
With MaxJet's ch 11 filing today there may soon be 5 second hand 767's on the market for Silverjet ! Does anyone know when Silverjet's next two are due to be delivered? Are MaxJet's 767's a similar type I wonder.