LUTON - 6
One of the Mitchells that took up residence in around 1967 was the camera ship for the film "Battle of Britain", much of which was filmed at Duxford. The film company acquired around 15 ex-Spanish Air Force licence-built He111s and Me109s, which I remember seeing there.
A little off the topic but there was a superb documentary on the Beeb some years ago (Called B-25s DO fly in IMC !) about assembling in the USA then ferrying to the UK six Mitchells for use in the film Hanover Street.
Think they were based at Luton whilst filming.
Think they were based at Luton whilst filming.
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 14th Jan 2008 at 11:52.
Business Jets
Kala -
Most weekdays see some 100 or so different executive jets on the ground at Luton. Most seem to be foreign-registered.
There are two FBOs at Luton (Harrods and Signature), and I believe that Signature is owned by Gulfstream Aircraft, so do maintenance on Gulfstream jets.
Harrods are in the process of opening a new executive 'terminal' at the side of the Cargo apron.
Types seen are varied, including Gulfstreams, Challengers, 125s, Citations and Beechcraft-Hawker aircraft. Heavier types include BBJ1 & 2, A319CJs and occasional 727s and 767s.
Most weekdays see some 100 or so different executive jets on the ground at Luton. Most seem to be foreign-registered.
There are two FBOs at Luton (Harrods and Signature), and I believe that Signature is owned by Gulfstream Aircraft, so do maintenance on Gulfstream jets.
Harrods are in the process of opening a new executive 'terminal' at the side of the Cargo apron.
Types seen are varied, including Gulfstreams, Challengers, 125s, Citations and Beechcraft-Hawker aircraft. Heavier types include BBJ1 & 2, A319CJs and occasional 727s and 767s.
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Business Jets
LGS6753, I think you will find Kala87 knows a little more about LTN than you think. Signature is owned by BBA Aviation, Gulfstream only lease some hangers from them. I think the question was comparing LTN with a Biz airport near Paris........
sorry, wrong end of stick. Thought it was a general enquiry, but re-reading I can see the question relates, as you suggest, to comparatively the busiest for business jets.
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2008 will be a tough year for all of the Luton based airlines... I predict at least one major failure, hopefully with no Luton damage
The first failure will almost certainly be Silverjet: nobody's going to patronise this sort of expensive service if personal and corporate budgets become really tight. This would be a great shame since the product is really excellent and innovative. Most of the lo-co airlines will start to lose their 'casual' customers i.e. the folk that travel just for the hell of it and because it's cheap. Initially, this loss would probably be made up by business travellers who would switch to the cheaper end of the market in order to cut down on their travel costs - this would benefit easyJet more than Ryanair because the former operates into 'real' airports that serve adjacent business centres, and not into the remoter locations that Ryanair prefers to use.
However, if economic retraction continued, then easyJet would begin to suffer declining revenues and at this point, Luton could conceivably see a drastic cut back of services and also corporate aircraft activity. We should remember that almost always in times of financial stress, airlines retrench into their main business locations, which for easyJet in the UK is - sadly for Luton - now Gatwick (with the acquisition of GB Airways, easyJet operates 27% - 30% of Gatwick's flights to 62 locations from this airport).
Such a meltdown scenario could see easyJet and Ryanair at Luton operating only their so-called "core routes", a 30% to 50% reduction in Signature's and Harrod's business, the collapse of Silverjet and the scaling down of Monarch's and ThompsonFly's activity.
If the US economy does "sneeze" later this year, the cold virus will probably hit Europe during the 2009/10 financial year and could last 18 or-so months.
Paradoxically, this would start to encroach on the Concession's break-clause year and so it might, it just might, cause the Council to take a more realistic attitude and so become more cooperative with ACDL since the chances of re-assigning the Concession under the current terms, to any new bidder, would be considerably harder if the revenue stream from the airport has fallen significantly. The Council might baulk at again having to operate the airport directly.
Worrying times ahead...??
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I do not see luton being a big loser in any slowdown with exception of Silverjet going under. BAA have doubled the charges to Ryanair and easyjet at Stansted. The December traffic there was down a massive 8%. Luton is well placed and I expect it to remain around its current activity even in a big downturn.
ThompsonFly will pull out of Coventry and it would then make sence for Wizz to move its flights at Coventry to luton. Even the M1 will be done soon.
ThompsonFly will pull out of Coventry and it would then make sence for Wizz to move its flights at Coventry to luton. Even the M1 will be done soon.
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BeFree, why would it "make more sence (sense)" for WizzAir to move the Coventry flights to London Luton, instead of axing the Coventry flights altogether and possibly starting a 3x weekly KTW-TSF for example? Personally cannot see them adding a further 3 flights to a schedule that already consists of 13 flights per week, plus the 7 per week at STN, and the 7 per week at LGW. Overcapacity springs to mind, bearing in mind competition on the LON-KRK/KTW routes.
Your insistance of a TOM pullout at CVT, leads me to think you have connections with the company, you might want to therefore spell the name correctly in future.
Your insistance of a TOM pullout at CVT, leads me to think you have connections with the company, you might want to therefore spell the name correctly in future.
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"The M1 will be done soon"!
If only! You are aware that once the section from Hemel to Luton airport is completed later this year, the next stages are to widen North of Jct 10 to Jct 14 at Milton Keynes?
I am aware of a airline using Luton that is helping to fill its planes (load factors) by offering some blistering deals to its own staff and partner/affiliated companies, they have not needed to do this before on such a large scale!
If only! You are aware that once the section from Hemel to Luton airport is completed later this year, the next stages are to widen North of Jct 10 to Jct 14 at Milton Keynes?
I am aware of a airline using Luton that is helping to fill its planes (load factors) by offering some blistering deals to its own staff and partner/affiliated companies, they have not needed to do this before on such a large scale!
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I do not see luton being a big loser in any slowdown with exception of Silverjet going under. BAA have doubled the charges to Ryanair and easyjet at Stansted...
The big difference this time is that governments such as the UK's and the the US's are increasingly in a cleft stick with the result that their economies are likely to suffer the 'double whammy' of declining or stagnating economic activity combined with increasing commodity prices (fuelled - no pun intended - by the increasing oil price). In order to stimulate the economy (and so get people out and about spending their cash on things like flying and holidays, or on consumer goods which are either air freighted, or are manufactured at home by other people who then also spend money by going on holiday or taking cheap flights) there's a desperate need to cut interest rates but this won't be done if inflation gets a boost because of these increasing prices.
The six million dollar question is how long this situation will last and how deep any recession proves to be.
As has been said, airlines like any business, if faced with decling sales and increased costs, almost always draw back to their core business. Whether Luton at its current level of airline activity is seen by them as being "core" business remans to be seen.
As for BAA's game plan, my guess it that it's positioning itself so that if a break up of its London airports is forced through, STN will be adequately profitable as stand-alone unsubsidised company.
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Now then you doom and gloom merchants!
From 2000 to 2003 company profitability declined and the stock market collapsed by 50%, but this didn't stop low-cost airlines expanding at a terrific rate. The real world of business (as opposed to the markets and negative media headlines) went on as usual.
Oil at $100 a barrel and higher ticket taxes are certainly going to limit the kind of low prices (ridiculous in some cases) that we saw on offer from the lo-cos during those years, but it would have to be a nightmare scenario indeed for the kind of massive cut-back in operations that some are predicting.
As others have said, FR look more vulnerable due to their more leisure-oriented operation and in some cases remote airports. EZY has always struck me as a more business-oriented airline, with a better mix of business and leisure routes, and their schedules and destinations reflect this.
As ever, which airline survives a downturn and which doesn't will ultimately depend on their balance sheets, cash reserves, and business model.
From 2000 to 2003 company profitability declined and the stock market collapsed by 50%, but this didn't stop low-cost airlines expanding at a terrific rate. The real world of business (as opposed to the markets and negative media headlines) went on as usual.
Oil at $100 a barrel and higher ticket taxes are certainly going to limit the kind of low prices (ridiculous in some cases) that we saw on offer from the lo-cos during those years, but it would have to be a nightmare scenario indeed for the kind of massive cut-back in operations that some are predicting.
As others have said, FR look more vulnerable due to their more leisure-oriented operation and in some cases remote airports. EZY has always struck me as a more business-oriented airline, with a better mix of business and leisure routes, and their schedules and destinations reflect this.
As ever, which airline survives a downturn and which doesn't will ultimately depend on their balance sheets, cash reserves, and business model.
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i agree with seamus, why would wizz move to ltn. are tom really pulling out of cvt. i personally think wizz will stay at cvt, with good pax figures and cheaper landing fees.. beats stn ltn's nearest rival. why not move flights from stn to ltn. what benefit would an extra flight from katowice and gdansk and possible another destination be to ltn when wizz already serves from ltn. again my opinion, thomson are taking bookings until apr 09. when is summer 09 for sale, 4-5 mths ?.. with 4 based aircraft at cvt between 6- 700,000 pax's pa in the past. now they have 2 and pax's are good. 2 aircraft at cvt this summer and less than half routes dropped deep down i dont think tom want to pull out. haven't most smaller airports suffered lost of flights by tom. we have to wait and see if you're right befree, but i hope you're wrong!!!
Paxing All Over The World
Recession? Yes, I fully expect it. In the UK? Yes, by the year end. Why? The property boom has continued for too long and the banks have not shut the stable door.
In the USA? Yes, I expect it there too. Talking with a US friend today, reports that jobs in the mid-west are being lost and the Iraq war is costing them close on a $Billion a day, to keep all those folks and their equipment in place. The country is frozen until the election and the next Pres does not take office for a year.
What will happen at LTN? Silver must be at high risk and the others will lose to a greater or lesser degree. The numbers cannot currently be guessed at but I expect that it will be very uncomfortable for everyone - in all areas, not just airlines.
In the USA? Yes, I expect it there too. Talking with a US friend today, reports that jobs in the mid-west are being lost and the Iraq war is costing them close on a $Billion a day, to keep all those folks and their equipment in place. The country is frozen until the election and the next Pres does not take office for a year.
What will happen at LTN? Silver must be at high risk and the others will lose to a greater or lesser degree. The numbers cannot currently be guessed at but I expect that it will be very uncomfortable for everyone - in all areas, not just airlines.
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The simple fact is that the 'low cost' airline model worldwide, if combined with a refusal to implement fuel surcharges, is just not viable long-term with oil at $100 or more a barrel, and western economies faltering.
It has nothing to do with being a 'doom & gloom merchant' - it's simple economic realism applicable not just to Luton, but to any airport that primarily depends on this type of airline business.
It has nothing to do with being a 'doom & gloom merchant' - it's simple economic realism applicable not just to Luton, but to any airport that primarily depends on this type of airline business.
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Harrods
Yes and they have 21 movements using stand 71 today, looks small and tight from here, and the south apron looks large and very empty.
A/c already going the long way round through the main apron, a new view for a lot of crew and regular passengers!
A/c already going the long way round through the main apron, a new view for a lot of crew and regular passengers!
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Harrods
Yes and they have 21 movements using stand 71 today,
Looks small and tight from here and the south apron looks large and very empty.
A/c already going the long way round through the main apron with the flow, a new view for a lot of crew and regular passengers!
Looks small and tight from here and the south apron looks large and very empty.
A/c already going the long way round through the main apron with the flow, a new view for a lot of crew and regular passengers!
The effects of a downturn on Luton are likely to be:
the demise of Silverjet
the demise of Sky Europe (reputedly one of the weaker locos)
re-alignment of some loco routes towards business rather than leisure locations
transfer of London pax from full service carriers to locos
reduction in biz-jet movements
Worse affected will be Stansted (more dependent on FR routes to secondary/leisure destinations), Coventry (exit of TOM), and Heathrow (pax moving to locos; overall travel reduction, especially from USA)
the demise of Silverjet
the demise of Sky Europe (reputedly one of the weaker locos)
re-alignment of some loco routes towards business rather than leisure locations
transfer of London pax from full service carriers to locos
reduction in biz-jet movements
Worse affected will be Stansted (more dependent on FR routes to secondary/leisure destinations), Coventry (exit of TOM), and Heathrow (pax moving to locos; overall travel reduction, especially from USA)