CORK - 5
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Debt report
http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0402/cork.html
Me no understand
Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey has urged Cork and Dublin airports to accept recommendations made by Peter Cassells to settle their dispute.
...
In essence, he recommended a funding solution post separation of €20m to €40m for the Cork Airport Authority, in return for the transfer of net assets of €220m, while reducing Dublin Airport Authority's indebtedness by €113m.
...
In essence, he recommended a funding solution post separation of €20m to €40m for the Cork Airport Authority, in return for the transfer of net assets of €220m, while reducing Dublin Airport Authority's indebtedness by €113m.
Me no understand
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Debt
Mangt at the airport should now reach an agreement with DAA and accept debt.
Mangt should then approach one of the worlds airport mangt companies (Ferrovial would not be one given T5 debacle) and enter into agreement of co-mangt or outright ownership.
Using the resources and backing of the intl company, the airport would certainly be able to shoulder the debt and grow itself into the future.
Though in international terms ORK might have little to offer, the airport should approach these companies on the basis that it could be expanded to become the main gateway to southern Ireland. Given the recent tourism figures and growth plans up to 2012, the region is the most important after Dublin in tourism terms.
Mangt should then approach one of the worlds airport mangt companies (Ferrovial would not be one given T5 debacle) and enter into agreement of co-mangt or outright ownership.
Using the resources and backing of the intl company, the airport would certainly be able to shoulder the debt and grow itself into the future.
Though in international terms ORK might have little to offer, the airport should approach these companies on the basis that it could be expanded to become the main gateway to southern Ireland. Given the recent tourism figures and growth plans up to 2012, the region is the most important after Dublin in tourism terms.
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If what you don't understand is the "funding solution of €20-40m", that is a "clever" way of saying that Cork need to find 20-40m to keep going that they don't currently have!
I would interpret it as meaing Cork is only able to service debt of €73-93m (€113m-20m/40m).
The worst of it is being "given" the 40 acres by those generous sods in Dublin. That is our fecking 40 acres in the first place. Neat trick, take it away so that you can give it back.
ps - last time I vote for those lying FF bastards.
I would interpret it as meaing Cork is only able to service debt of €73-93m (€113m-20m/40m).
The worst of it is being "given" the 40 acres by those generous sods in Dublin. That is our fecking 40 acres in the first place. Neat trick, take it away so that you can give it back.
ps - last time I vote for those lying FF bastards.
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I think its high time ye Corkies just accepted the debt. If a project that costs over €200m (such as your regional airport 'terminal') can't shoulder €100m or so then it shouldn't have been built in the first place as its plainly uneconomic.
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I think most people would accept the debt in return for a share of the Great Southern Hotels, Duty-Free business, Birmingham Airport, Hamburg Airport, Dusseldorf Airport etc. It would probably balance nicely ;-)
It seems Dublin Airport wants to retain all Aer Rianta's assets and none of its liabilities.
A long time ago, I said the solution to this was to sell Cork Airport debt-free to an international operator who knows something about running airports. The money could then be used to reduce the debts of the DAA. I stand by that solution, although with the way the international economy has gone, you'd get a much lower price for Cork Airport now than you would have got when I suggested it.
It seems Dublin Airport wants to retain all Aer Rianta's assets and none of its liabilities.
A long time ago, I said the solution to this was to sell Cork Airport debt-free to an international operator who knows something about running airports. The money could then be used to reduce the debts of the DAA. I stand by that solution, although with the way the international economy has gone, you'd get a much lower price for Cork Airport now than you would have got when I suggested it.
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I think its high time ye Corkies just accepted the debt. If a project that costs over €200m (such as your regional airport 'terminal') can't shoulder €100m or so then it shouldn't have been built in the first place as its plainly uneconomic.
I agree, the DAA shouldn't have built it at such enormous cost in the first place, but they did and they should subseqently be held financially accountable for it.
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No To Any Debt For Cork.
This report/recommendation being put to the Board of CAA proves the point that the DAA and government are totally of the same idea. That is let Cork pay for the OVER SPENDING caused by the Dublin heads of the Company Formally called Aer Rianta. The idea behind making Cork pay is to cover the packages given in Shannon around the €50 million and to have the option to say to the SAA here is another €50 million now you are on your own.
Niether Cork or Shannon will be a viaable option if broken away from the DAA ("Aer Rianta") company format. If Cork is split from the DAA then all possible developements are going to be put it on the long finger indefinately.
The talks regading Cork sellling the land to cover some of the debt would totally restrict the future developement as there is very little land around the airport that would be available to buy in the future.
Staff in Cork Airport are totally 100% against the break up as they realise the potential problems if the break up happens. Some include problems regarding Job security, yes I hear mentions of State Airports act, but what is likely to happen is the Airport will be under so much pressure that Cork Airport will end up being made a privately owned airport, which in turn will lead to jobs being cut and changes to T&Cs of the staff that are left.
Developement of Runway, Taxiways, Our 3million capacity terminal, Cargo area etc will take years upon years as the debt will prevent investment in these areas.
Pensions of Staff will be in serious trouble.
The only real option is to tell the Governement that the break up is not to happen, i.e. refuse the Deal.
Return to the AER RIANTA format regarding the 3 STATE OWNED AIRPORTS.
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Pay and Pensions
It's vital that the staff show a genuine interest in issues such as runways, taxiways, parking stands etc. The attempt to sell off land within the present perimeter and adjacent to it is a disgrace and shows a total lack of understanding of the aviation industry.
Aerlingus, Ryanair and Aer Arann will all want to base more aircraft at Cork if they wish to expand there and there will need more parking stands to do so.
There is simply no way that Cork will be able to grow much further if the eastern end of the airfield is converted into a business park.
I can understand that the staff are concerned about jobs and pensions, but it's vital that they don't sound as if that's ALL that interests them.
Aerlingus, Ryanair and Aer Arann will all want to base more aircraft at Cork if they wish to expand there and there will need more parking stands to do so.
There is simply no way that Cork will be able to grow much further if the eastern end of the airfield is converted into a business park.
I can understand that the staff are concerned about jobs and pensions, but it's vital that they don't sound as if that's ALL that interests them.
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Staff in Cork are not just against the debt for Jobs and pensions reasons. The staff at Cork realise the developement difficulties that will happen if the land is sold off and Cork has to incur any debt. It seems that that CAA Chairman & CX don't have a clue regards the Aviation Business and it's needs, example 7 airlines have left Cork in the last couple of years. They have not proven that they can move the airport forward.
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To clarify the sums
Juat by way of clarificiation the sums are as follows
(A) Outstanding amount on the Airport Loan = 113,000,000
(B) Reduce by value of a good interest rate = 13,000.000
(C) Reduce by DAA offering towards pernsions = 10,000,000
(D Reduce by value of unzoned "develpoment land " = 70,000,000
(E) Total savings to Cork Airport (B+C+D) 83,000,000
(F) Net cost to the CAA (A) minus (E) = 20,000, 000
Was it the 1st April they announced this ?
May come up tonight on RTE Questions and Answers.
(A) Outstanding amount on the Airport Loan = 113,000,000
(B) Reduce by value of a good interest rate = 13,000.000
(C) Reduce by DAA offering towards pernsions = 10,000,000
(D Reduce by value of unzoned "develpoment land " = 70,000,000
(E) Total savings to Cork Airport (B+C+D) 83,000,000
(F) Net cost to the CAA (A) minus (E) = 20,000, 000
Was it the 1st April they announced this ?
May come up tonight on RTE Questions and Answers.
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westcork man, are you saying the net CASH debt the CAA will have to service is just 20 million? Or is that the 'paper' debt?
I think this should be finalised either way. The terminal will not need to be materially expanded in the next 5 years, although the security queueing area may need reconfiguration. They can be paying down the debt in the mean time and be free to attract airline customers. They will need to attract some talent from the UK and/or Europe though and that will not be cheap.
From what I have seen there are enough gates, and plenty of room in the security area for more machines in the mean time. There may also the opportunity to use the are above the Duty Free, Bar and Lounge area to relocate food, bar and lounge up there to make more room for retail on the main departures level.
Brian.
I think this should be finalised either way. The terminal will not need to be materially expanded in the next 5 years, although the security queueing area may need reconfiguration. They can be paying down the debt in the mean time and be free to attract airline customers. They will need to attract some talent from the UK and/or Europe though and that will not be cheap.
From what I have seen there are enough gates, and plenty of room in the security area for more machines in the mean time. There may also the opportunity to use the are above the Duty Free, Bar and Lounge area to relocate food, bar and lounge up there to make more room for retail on the main departures level.
Brian.
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Clarification and Url for Cassells Report
No they will have a debt of 113,000,000 to service
Cassels put a whitewash on it , to show that they can keep their own land and sell it off, incidentally its not zoned for any development . Cork County Council is curentky working on a local area plan for the Airport and its environs.
The Loan originally came from the European Investment Bank and so its a good deal interest wise, so good that Cassels says that its just like having to pay back for 100,000,000 rather than the ful whack. He missed a career as a conjuror
Peter Cassells also sugested that DAA wil also contribute 10 million towards pensions - a liability which they would have historically in any event and in fact it could be higher.
The full Cassells report can be downloaded from here
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=2260
If this happened at Shannon Guys - TDS would be lying down on the runways.
Cassels put a whitewash on it , to show that they can keep their own land and sell it off, incidentally its not zoned for any development . Cork County Council is curentky working on a local area plan for the Airport and its environs.
The Loan originally came from the European Investment Bank and so its a good deal interest wise, so good that Cassels says that its just like having to pay back for 100,000,000 rather than the ful whack. He missed a career as a conjuror
Peter Cassells also sugested that DAA wil also contribute 10 million towards pensions - a liability which they would have historically in any event and in fact it could be higher.
The full Cassells report can be downloaded from here
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=2260
If this happened at Shannon Guys - TDS would be lying down on the runways.
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TD'd on the Shannon Runway's
I agree with West Cork Man but that's because the staff and their families in Shannon, Ennis and all over the Mid-West would be lobbying their T.D's and Councillors and working the local media.
Heard that WIZZ may take up ORK-WAW.
Heard that WIZZ may take up ORK-WAW.
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Thank you for the explanation, Westcorkman. I am afraid that the first reports from last week on Cassell's investigations had me all up in a heap trying to figure out what was going on with the figures and to cope with it my eyes were starting to glaze over the topic so your contribution is very well timed indeed.
Well, if the Cork public are anything to go by nothing will happen and Cork will be stuck with this by the government as they can say it was all an independent report and for sure there will be no ex Aer Rianta staffer shoutin' & roarin' either once their silence is bought off with assurances about pensions and jobs etc. From the business point of view and for as long as Cork remains a part of the Dublin Airport Authority business empire Cork and her airport will remain in the third class behind Dublin and Shannon - witness the recent deals for winter operations for the U S carriers, the CityJet/Air France arrangements and most recently the deal struck to keep EI sweet on the North Atlantic for the coming winter etc.
Why is the Cork Airport Authority so quiet on these kinds of deals being given the nod and wink by the government and the Shannon office of the DAA?
Cork people will like before be made mugs of by the government and the DAA and is it any wonder when people vote for the likes of Micheal Martin and Noel O'Flynn in FF and the like of Deirdre Clune in FG?
Three more years indeed - more like one hundred & three years.
Cork Airport is being stitched up nicely.
Well, if the Cork public are anything to go by nothing will happen and Cork will be stuck with this by the government as they can say it was all an independent report and for sure there will be no ex Aer Rianta staffer shoutin' & roarin' either once their silence is bought off with assurances about pensions and jobs etc. From the business point of view and for as long as Cork remains a part of the Dublin Airport Authority business empire Cork and her airport will remain in the third class behind Dublin and Shannon - witness the recent deals for winter operations for the U S carriers, the CityJet/Air France arrangements and most recently the deal struck to keep EI sweet on the North Atlantic for the coming winter etc.
Why is the Cork Airport Authority so quiet on these kinds of deals being given the nod and wink by the government and the Shannon office of the DAA?
Cork people will like before be made mugs of by the government and the DAA and is it any wonder when people vote for the likes of Micheal Martin and Noel O'Flynn in FF and the like of Deirdre Clune in FG?
Three more years indeed - more like one hundred & three years.
Cork Airport is being stitched up nicely.
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" I think this should be finalised either way. The terminal will not need to be materially expanded in the next 5 years, although the security queueing area may need reconfiguration. They can be paying down the debt in the mean time and be free to attract airline customers. They will need to attract some talent from the UK and/or Europe though and that will not be cheap."
"From what I have seen there are enough gates, and plenty of room in the security area for more machines in the mean time. There may also the opportunity to use the are above the Duty Free, Bar and Lounge area to relocate food, bar and lounge up there to make more room for retail on the main departures level."
Brian.
"From what I have seen there are enough gates, and plenty of room in the security area for more machines in the mean time. There may also the opportunity to use the are above the Duty Free, Bar and Lounge area to relocate food, bar and lounge up there to make more room for retail on the main departures level."
Brian.
Unfortunately the Brains in Dublin while the building of the Airport was happening changed the quality of steel used in the Duty Free and Bar areas to save costs. This change means nothing can be build up on any of that area. Which was originally in the plans to include offices etc. Where are the illussive TRANSALANTIC passengers going to have their secondary security screening and seperated waiting area in departures as required by FAA for all inbound PAX.
The Security Check Point is currently too small to cope with the 4 machine which are supposed to be there since the opening of the Terminal. (Currently only 3 in place, 4th to be replaced for summer.) What Designer came up with the bright idea of having a queing system that overflows across a restuarant entrance, sometimes down the escalator, and into the bar.... And the busy summer season has yet to start..
And people think the CAA could run an Airport with a Debt hanging over it's head.
I seriously think the people of Cork need to make their voices heard do they want to face higher airport charges, loss in tourism business, loss in commerical and industrial business, a restricted list of destinations becauses airline won't pay the increased landing fees... These are all serious problems facing the people of Cork and the greater Munster Area if this issue isn't put to bed once and for all.
No to the Break Up of The State Airports
Last edited by ASU.ORK; 8th Apr 2008 at 17:41.
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The original size and design of the terminal would have alleviated a lot of the difficulties that ASU has listed.
In fairness it was the bould Aer Rianta and to a lesser extent the DAA that made the changes to its size and design and stored up lots of problems for the future.
I'm not sure why the staff are so anxious to stay under Dublin control.
The DAA have their own problems and priorities and Cork will only get crumbs from the table from them. This after all is the company that refused to sanction more than one airbridge and now that's not even operational.
Maybe someone should tell management at Cork about the FAA's requirements for transatlantic operations. They seem to be quite confident that they'll secure an East Coast service within 3 years. What's significant about the figure 3 I'm not sure.
In fairness it was the bould Aer Rianta and to a lesser extent the DAA that made the changes to its size and design and stored up lots of problems for the future.
I'm not sure why the staff are so anxious to stay under Dublin control.
The DAA have their own problems and priorities and Cork will only get crumbs from the table from them. This after all is the company that refused to sanction more than one airbridge and now that's not even operational.
Maybe someone should tell management at Cork about the FAA's requirements for transatlantic operations. They seem to be quite confident that they'll secure an East Coast service within 3 years. What's significant about the figure 3 I'm not sure.
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I made a quick visit to Departures in the new terminal last Saturday morning after the last of the rugby charters headed off for the game in Gloucester. The check in area was well and truly jammed at the time with the routine Saturday morning schedule and sun charter check ins. I do not want to sound any way over the top about it but it was really at full tilt and if there is even minimal growth in passenger numbers in the next year or two the new check in area will start looking like the old terminal did in the final year or two!
ASU.ORK, What is your perceived benefit of Cork Airport staying a part of the Dublin Airport Authority? Just how much credibility do you think the marketing department of the Cork Airport Authority has after last week's comments about three more years before a North Atlantic flight is secured bearing in mind that on their own admission they have all ready been speaking to airlines for two years to date! So, in total, they want a lead in time of no less than five years first before an Atlantic flight takes off! They have got some brass neck!
More in their line to get up off their arses, leave the fibre glass monuments to Heineken Beer aside, and get Budapest back double quick time. I will tell you a story - I know a family that have family and business interests based in Budapest. Conducting their affairs has been a nightmare since Malev left Cork. For example, two of the family in Cork were dropped off at the new Cork terminal at 8 am last Friday to get the 2nd Ryanair flight to Dublin and then hang around in the DAA's jewel in the crown half the day until the Ryanair flight to Budapest and not finally getting home in Budapest until 8.10 pm local time that evening.
What a friggin' nightmare! Now, my friends were never afraid of paying high fares on ORK-BUD, Budapest one of the most beautiful cities in Europe a route that enobled Cork Airport so I would like to know in some considerable detail what exactly the marketing department of the Cork Airport Authority did to try and save this good route and I am not talking here about the bull5h!t press statements of regret etc. Were there three hours, three days, or three weeks put in to try and save the route and what has since been done?
ASU.ORK, What is your perceived benefit of Cork Airport staying a part of the Dublin Airport Authority? Just how much credibility do you think the marketing department of the Cork Airport Authority has after last week's comments about three more years before a North Atlantic flight is secured bearing in mind that on their own admission they have all ready been speaking to airlines for two years to date! So, in total, they want a lead in time of no less than five years first before an Atlantic flight takes off! They have got some brass neck!
More in their line to get up off their arses, leave the fibre glass monuments to Heineken Beer aside, and get Budapest back double quick time. I will tell you a story - I know a family that have family and business interests based in Budapest. Conducting their affairs has been a nightmare since Malev left Cork. For example, two of the family in Cork were dropped off at the new Cork terminal at 8 am last Friday to get the 2nd Ryanair flight to Dublin and then hang around in the DAA's jewel in the crown half the day until the Ryanair flight to Budapest and not finally getting home in Budapest until 8.10 pm local time that evening.
What a friggin' nightmare! Now, my friends were never afraid of paying high fares on ORK-BUD, Budapest one of the most beautiful cities in Europe a route that enobled Cork Airport so I would like to know in some considerable detail what exactly the marketing department of the Cork Airport Authority did to try and save this good route and I am not talking here about the bull5h!t press statements of regret etc. Were there three hours, three days, or three weeks put in to try and save the route and what has since been done?
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Cork Vote
The CAA has accepted the Cassells report by the narrowest of margins. Interesting times at the airport on the hill.
If DAA agree then the much heralded break up of the 3 major airports may finally go ahead but there's many a slip between the cup and the lip especially in a country that has a make it up as you go along aviation policy.
If DAA agree then the much heralded break up of the 3 major airports may finally go ahead but there's many a slip between the cup and the lip especially in a country that has a make it up as you go along aviation policy.
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Report has been accepted.... It took Gantly ages to get the board to accept the debt at any cause which was his goal since he came into his position.... His cloak and dagger meetings & plans with our backstabbing local Minister Michael Martin, The DAA and Department Of Transport have served him well.. He has set up Cork for a long term decline... Closure of the 25 runway, selling off of our small land bank... There goes the hope of Cork every expanding.. NO space will be left for badly needed stands, possible relocation of Cargo to allow PAX developement.. What is the plan now..
Cork has now allowed Dublin to Pay Shannon OFF because that is was is gonig to happen with the money Cork has now realised for Dublin
It's a grey day for the people of CORK..
Cork has now allowed Dublin to Pay Shannon OFF because that is was is gonig to happen with the money Cork has now realised for Dublin
It's a grey day for the people of CORK..