CORK - 5

[N by NW]

LHR

EI deploying A320s on the LHR route for winter 08.

Given the increase in passengers over the past number of months, would have thought the route would require A321s.

[brian_dromey]

The winter timetable is not fully finalised yet. On routes like LHR where the schedule does not change often a carbon copy of the previous winters' schedule get put up for sale. I would expect the 321 to be seen once the schedule and fleet assignments have been fully decided. Expecting MAN and GVA still, as well as BHX going back to daily, unless 2x week to BRU or something like that is to be launched.

Brian.

[Charlie Roy]

unless 2x week to BRU or something like that is to be launched

Cork - Brussels twice a week would clean up!
(By the way, an EI Belfast - Brussels wouldn't surprise me either, but I suppose EI will wait for Easyjet to launch the route first, before jumping on it themselves )...

But please launch ORK - BRU

[840]

I think the problem with Brussels is that it would largely take pax off existing Aer Lingus services from Amsterdam and Paris. And then you've got to account for the HSL Zuid rail line reducing Schiphol-Brussels travel times to 80-90 minutes (even less from Antwerp, which would also be providing pax). In some ways Charleroi would be a better option that Brussels National because it's towards the Ardennes and Luxembourg, which have no nearby service from Cork unlike Flanders, which is moving towards Amsterdam.

Some passengers could be taken off SNN-CRL, but personally, I'd prefer to do the simple rail connection from Schiphol to Brussels than the trek up to Shannon and I'm sure many others would feel like that.

[EI-BUD]

EI Cork/Brussels

I wouldnt think a Cork/Brussels service would be a big hit even at a twice a week frequency. Jetmagic did it if my memory serves me well and the numbers were poor. I realise that this was some time back but nonetheless would have thought this would be a strong market!

[Charlie Roy]

Jetmagic did it if my memory serves me well and the numbers were poor.

SN Brussels did it after that (Summer 2005 M--T---), and every flight (except the first and last) was booked out! And that despite the high fares and zero advertising. God knows why they ever stopped it

[Tom the Tenor]

As to Jetmagic's history on Cork Brussels it is worth nothing that once they began to cut back from double daily to a lesser service before ceasing the route entirely the Cork Brussels route actually began to do quite well! It was so ironic looking back on it all now. I accept that if EI were to go to the Brussels area from Cork they might as well snooker FR and go to Charleroi allowing pax easier access to Adrennes & Luxembourg. Have known a lot of Cork folk go to Brussels for a weekend in the last few years via FR SNN-CRL but would EI put an aircraft on such a new route on Friday & Sunday rotations? Hard to see?

Is it possible to get a train from Charleroi railway station to Cologne without having to change trains? Just curious.

[Charlie Roy]

Is it possible to get a train from Charleroi railway station to Cologne without having to change trains?

Option 1:

• Charleroi Airport - Charleroi train station (Local bus)
• Charleroi train station - Cologne Hbf (changing trains in Brussels South train station)

Option 2:

• Charleroi Airport - Brussels South train station (Bus)
• Brussels South train station - Cologne Hbf

Option 3:

• Rent a car

(Sorry if this is off topic)

[ryan2000]

Land rezoning at Cork Airport.

Increasing concern is being expressed about suggestions that land at Cork Airport might be rezoned and sold off on the basis that it is surplus to requirements.

To suggest that an airport which is surrounded by two ridges and a national road has any surplus land is incredible to say the least and shows a lack of understanding about airport development.

To be fair Cork County Council has protected much of the land around the airport for future expansion of the facility. Now we have people who should know better suggesting that even land within the airport boundary could be sold off!

No doubt there are a few developers waiting in the wings but hopefully Cork County Council will refuse to rezone the airport land in the long term interest of the Airport and the Region.

To be fore warned is to be fore armed!

[Tom the Tenor]

Charley Roi, Thank you for the tips about the Cologne trains from Belgium. It would be even better if it was possible to fly from Cork to Colgone or failing that, Dusseldorf, but I doubt if we will ever see that reappear because there is precedence as believe it or not EI did Cork-Dusseldorf for a time in the mid 1970s!

I work with someone from Ostrava in the east of the Czeck Republic and I was just looking at some of the latest airfield developments at their airport. Last year they completed a new terminal, a straightforward rectangular box effort just about half the size of Cork's new teminal but far more basic looking in appearance but no doubt quite functional. I recall seeing passenger numbers from there and if my memory serves me the last numbers I saw was about 500,000 to 600,000 pax in a recent year.

What did I notice this evening in a more recent photo at Ostrava Airport? A new maintenace hangar is nearing completion and it looks like it will be capable of housing about two narrowbodies. Why the heck Cork has not got into some of this kind of business beats me - how many thousands of old 737s and A320 series aircraft are there now in the world all of which needs maintenace and painting etc. If the geniuses are at work to dole out Cork Airport land you would think this kind of project would be a no brainer and at least it would be aviation related rather than some bull5h!t call centre or insurance company.

[brian_dromey]

Why the heck Cork has not got into some of this kind of business beats me - how many thousands of old 737s and A320 series aircraft are there now in the world all of which needs maintenace and painting etc. If the geniuses are at work to dole out Cork Airport land you would think this kind of project would be a no brainer and at least it would be aviation related rather than some bull5h!t call centre or insurance company.

Tom, its not that simple and you know it. In Europe now there are 2 big 3rd party maintenance providers, namely Lufthansa Technic and SR Technics, these have bases all over the continent, and increasingly LHT has bases in lower cost economies like the Philippines and China. Looking back to Ireland Team EI has been merged into SRT, which is struggling, SNN Aerospace is owned by LHT. Increasingly carries are signing agreements with one of these big providers to cover all of their fleets and companies like ATC Lasham have the work from lessors tied up, those who have not signed a complete agreement generally have their own facilities. like easyJet, FR, etc. Pickings would be thin on the ground for this type of operation and the costs to establish it would be huge, realistically backing from one of the big companies would be needed and they are investing in lower cost economies in Aisa.

Tom, would you give up the old soldier routine, its getting seriously old. If you want to see something done, do something about it. Get at job up at ORK, set up an MRO, run in the local elections. Talk is cheap and despite the 'outrage' expressed on these boards I have yet to see anyone do anything practical.

Brian.

[Tom the Tenor]

Ifs and buts for maintenance facility inaction at Cork according to Mr Dromey:-

(i) Lufthansa Technic
(ii) SR Technic/Shannon Aerospace.

So handy, excuses.

Are you really going to try and and tell me no maintenance business could be found for either airliners/bizjets/turboprops & other GA aircraft at a suggested facility in Cork. I just dont accepet it, sorry.

We all do our bit, Brian, and when you come back and let me know you have done your 19 years and then x 2 and more for Cork I will review your comments again.

[CCR]

I think Aer Arann should give the Cork-Brussels route a go. They will operate a similar disance on the Cork-La Rochelle route this year.

[Angry Rebel]

In Pier D in dublin yesterday for the first time and quite impressed I must say. Mystified as to why the new terminal in Cork wasn't built to a similar design: bright, airy, spacious, lots of seating and space in departures, half decent amount of retail.

If that had been built in Cork we'd have a terminal of twice the capacity, with twice as many contact stands and for the same price. Instead we got an overpriced goldplated terminal that will be at capacity this year.

On that point, interestingly, the spin from the DAA has started again. Following the publication of the Cassells report, the DAA CEO was quoted as saying Cork are getting a great deal for €113m etc etc, as they were getting a terminal that can handle 5m passengers! The design was always very clear that it was for 3m but that it had been designed so as to make it possible to expand it to cater for 5m. That expansion would not be free....

[NABLAG]

T the T, I would have thought the answer to the maintenance idea at Cork is simple... the cost of the kind of specialised labour required is too much to compete with Eastern Europe etc. Thats it.

Brian is pointing out that the existing players SR at Dub and Luft at Sha. are barely able to stay open.

[Tom the Tenor]

Cost agreed and the availability of such labour locally may also be an issue? I notice that Shannon Aerospace are one of the companies taking up a place in the very well publicised FAS Jobs Munster exhibition at the swanky new Nemo Rangers GAAaaaaa club in Cork.

You gave me an idea though - Cork's main two rivals may be considered into one umbrella entity - Dubsha! Could be used as a sort of SSR IFF interrogator by Cork - the Dubsha bogey!

[CorkEICK]

In Pier D in dublin yesterday for the first time and quite impressed I must say. Mystified as to why the new terminal in Cork wasn't built to a similar design: bright, airy, spacious, lots of seating and space in departures, half decent amount of retail.

If that had been built in Cork we'd have a terminal of twice the capacity, with twice as many contact stands and for the same price. Instead we got an overpriced goldplated terminal that will be at capacity this year.

You must remember Pier D is just that a pier! No check in desks, no arrivals area, no public areas so not really fair to compare Cork with it. Also I would disagree regarding retail, bar and coffee shops are way too small for the throughput and you must remember there are at least 3 maybe 4 gates that are not in use because of the "timber portacbin area" which is still in use and acessed via pier D. I saw EI A330 bound for USA and gate area seemed barely adequate.

[Copenhagen]

Just where would you construct a Pier D style finger in Cork Anyway?

Good to see the crap on the cork thread continues week in week out.

[brian_dromey]

In a lot of ways Pier D is a big glass box, just like Cork is but other than that they cant really be judges and were designed taking their location on the airfield and function into account. In other words both buildings were designed for different functions.

I dont know what version of ORK you guys are using but Bright and airy sums up ORK very well and the roof is a beautiful piece of architecture to my mind. SOmeone will probably say how much cost that added, etc. The airport above is now what I would consider 'world class'. It certainly beats the pants off anything in the UK or Ireland. To get all of what the CAA is getting for 100million is an absolute bargain. There is no way something like Pier D could have been built at ORK without building on a greenfield site, there just isn't the room to have gates on both sides of a terminal building where it is currently positioned, unless the business park was demolished and/or tonnes of earth were removed! I am probably beating my head against a brick wall, Im sure someone will come up with another conspiracy theory.

This board is really getting a bit silly and there seems to be a massive problem with DUB and SNN and in typical Cork style every time a positive piece of news comes along all we here is "oh but WAW, etc are gone..." For God's sake can we move on or are we determined to act like a bunch of langers with small-man-syndrome?

[ryan2000]

Cork's future

I agree with Brian that the financial situation at Cork is not as bad as is being portrayed.

Latest rumours suggest that the interest payment on the debt will be around
€4m per annum.

This is manageable although there is a considerable amount of capital works that may need to be done depending on traffic levels.