CORK - 5

[Charlie Roy]

GATWICK!

Aer Lingus to compete with Ryanair on the Cork to Gatwick route from next summer:
Aer Lingus Group PLC - Trading Update & Traffic Stat - InvestEgate

I'm curious as to the schedule...

[CarbHeatIn]

I thought there was an agreement not to operate flights into ORK/DUB/SNN with crew based outside Ireland?

[Charlie Roy]

I thought there was an agreement not to operate flights into ORK/DUB/SNN with crew based outside Ireland?

There was, but I suppose (guess) that EI management have finally gotten agreement from the unions to allow this.

About the Gatwick route:

• What sort of schedule can we hope for?
• Will Ryanair increase Gatwick flights in response (and reduce Dublin)?
• Will Heathrow be reduced - Heathrow slots rented out, Cork based aircraft freed up for a new route like Glasgow?

[brian_dromey]

Interesting. These changes are from the Summer Schedule, so it's all going to happen pretty quickly.

My suspicion is that the 5th EI LHR rotation (EI 713/714??) - the one that comes in from LHR will be binned and replaced with a morning and evening LGW flight, originating in LGW. I think the way it used to work at LGW was something like:
A/C 1: LGW-AGP-LGW-NOC-LGW-AGP-LGW
A/C 2: LGW-XXX-LGW-AGP-LGW-XXX-LGW
As Malaga and Knock are both staying, I suspect that is how it will pan out, but there is nothing available yet regarding timetable.
This will certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons as far as Ryanair is concerned. I will be interested to see their response.

Brian.

[CarbHeatIn]

Apparently no agreement with unions so it'll be ORK originating aircraft using the aircraft coming off the BHX/MAN which will be operated by RE. That's my guess anyway

[brian_dromey]

Possibly, although this would only give one daily flight in the middle of the day, unless they move the schedules about quite substantially. The press release seemed to indicate that three aircraft would remain LGW based, although Im not sure if that is actually possible serving only NOC and Malaga with LGW crew.
The post above states that no agreement has been reached, but I wonder if EI are interpreting "no flights out of DUB/ORK/SNN" as being "no flights out of DUB/ORK/SNN, but flights originating and terminating in LGW/BFS with no service from DUB/ORK/SNN to other network points are OK"? I honestly don't know if they are, or if they can. There could also have been changes during recent discussions.

Whatever the crewing situation of these flights, 2010 seems like it will be a more positive year than 2009. Any more news on the resumption of GLA service?

Brian.

[EISNN]

how about DUB-LGW-ORK-LGW-DUB twice or three times a day? Also we have to remember that if RE are going to operate some flights on behalf of EI from ORK as you might see one aircraft being freed up to operate ORK-LGW two or three times a day with another european rotation in the middle.

only guessing though.

[Tom the Tenor]

Cork Airport had an interesting weather related diversion from Dublin yesterday in the shape of a Jet4you 737-800 arriving from Agadir. Missed all the action myself so unable to provide any comments on the visit. There was also an earlier diversion from Shannon in the shape of a Gulstream III.

Is it interesting to note that both Belfast and Prestwick hosted diversions by Aer Lingus A330s during Saturday morning with Cork Airport not getting a look-in. I wonder do EI ops even stock Cork plates on their long haul aeroplanes?

Wait for it, the usual ol' excuses will be wheeled out and flung in any minute now!

Anywhere But Cork will do - the ABC!

[CCR]

Short runways in icy weather isn't a good combination TTT. Get out your shovel and add another 1000ft to the main runway and I'm sure Cork would get a look-in

[737-500]

I agree with CCR. I am from Cork myself and did all of my flight training there but come on, this same old crap about "anywhere but Cork". An A330 at max landing weight needs about 1700 meters of runway, Cork is around 2100 meters. If you land at the 1000 foot markers which you would when using the ILS, Cork has only 1800 meters. Now factor in a wet or icy runway with anything but a good braking action reported and you can see for yourself it is fairly tight even if the flight was not full. Why risk this when Belfast and Prestwick have 2800 and 2900 meters? I think a few people here need to study ATPL performance before posting the same repetitive comments again

B735

[Setel Up]

Return of Leeds Bradford route ?

Aer Arann tried for a while, but now is the time for one of the really low fare airlines to consider operating with the obvious start up incentives available from the ORK and LBA marketing pots. Three times weekly for S10 would be a start with LS and FR both having Yorkshire based aircraft.

Setel Up

[EI-BUD]

Leeds Bradford

It is a surprise that Jet2 didnt look at say 2 flights per week on this route.

[fivejuliet]

Regarding the A330 not diverting to Cork, at the moment internal company policy does not allow the A330 to cork at all because of the nose wheel turning circle being too tight for it on the threshold of 35 in particular

Generally shannon and Belfast are specified as first and second alternates, but yesterday things were different with the weather

[ryan2000]

Can someone clarify if EI have officially banned the A330 from using Cork. They did operate here in 1994/5 on special flights.

I spoke to a very senior A330 Captain some years ago about the issue. He said that he was unaware of any restriction but in his view any competent pilot should be able to use the Cork "turning circle".

At the time of the 2002 Heineken Cup Final a travel agent was offered a EI330 to operate a day charter. I understand that EI was willing to operate from Cork but it didn't go ahead for logistical reasons unrelated to the famous Cork turning circle.



In any event I understand that the "turning circle" was widened some years ago. Of course Air Luxor, Cathay Pacific and My Travel have operated 330's into Cork over the years.



The braking action was not an issue yesterday morning. One wonders if there are other reasons why transatlantic flights do not use Cork as an alternate. After all the much smaller AA757 chose Birmingham yesterday and didn't return to Dublin untill today. Surely Cork would have been a better option all else being equal.

[en2r]

Regarding the A330 not diverting to Cork, at the moment internal company policy does not allow the A330 to cork at all because of the nose wheel turning circle being too tight for it on the threshold of 35 in particular

Generally shannon and Belfast are specified as first and second alternates, but yesterday things were different with the weather

Of course Air Luxor, Cathay Pacific and My Travel have operated 330's into Cork over the years.

Fivejuillet, you're incorrect. As Ryan2000 has stated A330s can and have operated into and out of Cork over the years.

Apparently no agreement with unions so it'll be ORK originating aircraft using the aircraft coming off the BHX/MAN which will be operated by RE. That's my guess anyway

Why does everyone assume that BHX and MAN will switch to the ATR 72. BHX for example currently operates twice daily on a number of days with the A320 and does quite well. It would make no sense at all to operate a route of this strength using only ATR 72s, and it would actually be reducing capacity. The more likely outcome in my opinion would be that perhaps an evening service would continue to be operated by an A320, and then a morning service would be operated by an ATR 72. This would provide business friendly schedules,while maintaining the capacity and economies of scale of the A320.

[fivejuliet]

Taken from a current EI crew briefing

"OTHER NOTES

1)A330 PROHIBITED UFN DUE NOSE WHEEL STEERING RESTRICTION"

[Tom the Tenor]

If the above notes are correct this matter must be brought to the urgent attention of the general management and techinical management departments of the Cork Airport Authority.

Cork Airport may yet be indebted to you on on this one, fivejuliet.

Thank you.

[ryan2000]

Corks famous turning circle

I understand that a restriction was put in place after an incident involving an EI A330 in the mid 90's. However the turning circle was widened as part of the runway overlay contract in 1998.

Perhaps some one in Aerlingus could check the new dimensions.Cork management have repeatedly said that the runway in Cork (the airport with only one airbridge) is not an issue as far as East Coast transatlantic operations are concerned so you'd wonder what is going on.

Imagine the farce if the economy was to improve and a transatlantic service was announced and then scuppered because of a footnote in a manual about the width of the 35 turning circle.

This issue needs to be clarified and resolved once and for all. The cost if there is one would be minimal and it would be money well spent as 330' and 340's will increasingly become part of the match charter/Lourdes Pilgrimage fleets in the near future.

[Charlie Roy]

GATWICK with Aer Lingus

Twice daily using a Gatwick based aircraft (which is a huge increase of seats on the Cork-London market!):

lgw - ork: 0700 - 0825, ork - lgw: 0900 - 1025
lgw - ork: 1845 - 2010, ork - lgw: 2045 - 2210
(Timings rather similar to Ryanair's morning and evening Stansted services)

Nearly all dates are 80EUR return, all taxes included
Ryanair's daily Gatwick flight departs Cork at 1pm approx and departs Gatwick at 3pm approx.

The choice of Cork departures for Gatwick:
9am, 1pm, 9pm
The choice of Gatwick departures for Cork:
7am, 3pm, 7pm

SNOW
So it snowed yesterday in Cork and the airport needed to close for most of the day. What about today, I see most flights cancelled. Is it snowing heavily again? Or maybe staff couldn't get to the airport this morning?

[ceimanfhiadh]

Are the Gatwick flights on sale now? They're not showing for me on the website.