ISLE OF MAN

[JobsaGoodun]

The constant Flybe bashing is becoming rather tiresome. You may be pleased to see Flybe coming under pressure but anyone who thinks EZY can make money on £9.99 tickets is living in cloud cuckoo land. Look at the market share on BHD/BFS-LGW, if you do you'll see that Flybe is taking part of EZY's share. Flybe aren't afraid of a fight. Quite simply, EZY have the wrong aircraft for length of flight.

EZY couldn't make JERLTN work in a much larger market than the combined LPL/MAN-IOM market. I really don't anticipate this lasting long, that is if it ever gets started at all. They take your taxes in discounted landing charges and once that runs out they'll be off.

You may get discounted tickets for a while, but they'll only be tickets that residents have indrectly subsidised anyway!

[Cloud1]

JobsaGoodun - I agree and to be perfectly honest I dont think there is a single thing that Flybe can do right when it comes to IOM.

It still to this day seems to me that IOM residents have a bee in their bonnet about BE taking over BA Connect and Euromanx going down the pan. It is one of the only destinations where you can guarantee someone on that aircraft will have something to moan about. With regards to fares, if you booked a flight with Flybe without any hold baggage or seat assignment you could frequently get one way fares for £20-£30 which is not unreasonable.

If EasyJet were to start at IOM it would show a sincere lack of business sense on their part, using a larger jet on a route that cannot support a turbo-prop operation! It is mad. Like many things, only time will tell with this one.

[IOMspotter]

but it does give Ezy what they need to keep LPL airport happy. Bums on seats thru the terminal and paying squillions for car parking . this will hurt the Steam Bucket as much as BE.

[tallaonehotel]

"Yessirr. Next thing FlyBe will use the arrival of Eezy to squeel like and chop frequency on their worst iOM routes like BHX and LTN and blame it all on the iom airport".

Simple things amuse simple minds they say, having read a few of you posts jetstream you excel at being a fool. An understanding of airline economics would suit you better before spouting constant verbal diarrhoea.
Having been a resident on the rock, the Manxies are a hard bunch to please.
Easyjet would be wise to build extra slack into their network rather than a short trip to the rock from LPL.

[manx crab]

Presumably Easyjet have a business model and if the IOM-LPL fitted it then they would have been here years ago.

I hope they would not receive any subsidy from Reynoldsway as there certainly is no shortage of capacity to LPL at the moment (eg just booked two singles to LPL for May £25 each even allowing for the Ryanair like card fees and there was plenty of choice at that fare).

Only time will tell if this rumour is true or not, all the Flybe haters on this thread seem to be poised by their keyboards though.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Did you boys not get your special FlyBe super dooper email today. Committed to the Isle of Man. LPL 4x a day at lower fares. Seems like Exeter believe the rumor even if you flybe boys dont want to. It will all end in all round.

[MUFC_fan]

Of course it will end in tears.

What I thank U2 rumours for is how they have shown how much BE have been ripping the people on the IOM off!

It amazes me how they have just dropped fares so drastically - why couldn't they have done so before?

Simple: they had/have a monopoly to most regions from the airport! They can charge what they want! They have tried (and in most cases successfully) to throw airlines off of routes - acting as the 'big boy.'

It is now time for Exeter to have a taste of their own medicine with what really is a big boy.

[HH6702]

Easyjet

if it is true easyjet to start service to liverpool how long will it be until they join the dots with the other UK bases? NCL,STN,LTN,LGW,BRS,EDI etc?
do you think easyjet will add the other bases or is it just a case of keeping liverpool airport happy??

[manx crab]

Well as Eastern could not fill a J41 to NCL, BRS it would be never.

Personally I doubt there is the business from LPL but you never can tell.

Flybe ripping off the people of the IOM?. Bring back the good old days of Manx Airlines eh £129 cheapest return to Manchester ah bliss

[JobsaGoodun]

Of course it will end in tears.

What I thank U2 rumours for is how they have shown how much BE have been ripping the people on the IOM off!

It amazes me how they have just dropped fares so drastically - why couldn't they have done so before?

It is now time for Exeter to have a taste of their own medicine with what really is a big boy.

MUFC - BE have dropped fares in an effort to both sway the travelling public to pick their services now and to help maintain their market share should EZY come onto the route. You appear to be suggesting that when you compare the previous lowest Flybe £29.99 o/w fare with the £21.50 o/w fare that Flybe are effectively making a profit of £8.49 on each ticket it sells. In my opinion that is quite a niave view to take.

The fact remains that even if EZY filled every seat at £9.99 for example, they would still not come close to covering their costs. After all, how do they pay the UK and IOM APD at £10/11 for each sector?

As for EXT getting a taste of thier own medicine - lets not forget that Flybe in it's various guises has been around now for over 30yrs, longer than both Ryanair and Easyjet combined. I think they know how to handle some competition. They have more than held their own against EZY/FR in BHD, seen off FR off domestics in BOH and BMIBaby out of BHX and CWL. Something tells me that Flybe won't be scared off by a 737 or 319 painted orange!

[JC25]

Flybe are not ripping anyone off! At the end of the day they are running a business, not a charity! Any well run business, including Flybe, will charge what the market will allow them to. So yes fares will likely fall if Easyjet appear at IOM but that does not suggest anyone was being "ripped off".

Cheap air fares are not a God given right I'm afraid. The Isle of Man is not a large enough market for the lo-co's to fill their big shiny jets to every destination that Flybe has managed to make work. Even if they could, what use would a daily Gatwick and daily Liverpool be for business traffic?

Where would we be if BE pulled their routes next week? Do you think we'd see four shiny A319's based on the Island with multiple frequencies to the mainland? I don't think so!

Flybe are not perfect and I'm not suggesting that IOM residents should just make do and be greatful that Flybe grace us with their presence, but maybe we should at least recognise that they have shown dedication to the Island. And lets not forget, if they were to disappear there would be a fair few IOM residents that would find themselves without a job.

[EI-BUD]

Presumably Easyjet have a business model and if the IOM-LPL fitted it then they would have been here years ago.

Manx crab; i would disagree with your comment about fitting the model. Yes EZY have a model, and it is suited to any market in EU, yes the likes of IOM and JER are unique in that they have small population, but IOM LPL is a busy corridor. However, certain criteria may have changed and I would bet that IOM government are incentivising EZY to come in as in the case where JER incentivised Bmi to operate LHR. The suggestion that they would have done IOM by now if it suited the model, would imply that they should be flying to scores of others airports around EU but they must choose based on the financials and obviously something has now changed at IOM?

The other way of looking at this is that IOM may be feeling under pressure by Flybe given that they are so dominant. It will be just like SOU and EXT.

However, EZY will be aware of Flybe's ambitions at LGW and may want to send a strong message to them?

All that said I cannot gain any proof by example that any loco has successfully ousted Flybe, Ryanair avoid them like the plague and for a route like IOM LPL easyjet will not be able to offer the business man what the business man wants like Frequency and at the same time remain profitable.

Easyjet at this time are so focused on profit margin and will avoid cut throat competition.

[MUFC_fan]

You appear to be suggesting that when you compare the previous lowest Flybe £29.99 o/w fare with the £21.50 o/w fare that Flybe are effectively making a profit of £8.49 on each ticket it sells. In my opinion that is quite a niave view to take.

Sorry if that was what I 'appear[ed]' to be suggesting, but there really is no need to explain airline economics to me. This is certainly not what I was suggesting. What I was suggesting is that it is very easy to see how easy the airline will drop fares on the route. Remember that the flights are classed at £0.00+taxes as their lowest fares both yesterday and today - have the airline's taxes become £8.49 cheaper overnight? I doubt it...

The fact remains that even if EZY filled every seat at £9.99 for example, they would still not come close to covering their costs. After all, how do they pay the UK and IOM APD at £10/11 for each sector?

The FACTS are that easyJet would not charge £9.99 over 148 seats which is, quoting yourself, 'naive' (spelt correctly of course...) The ADP is now £11 per passenger yet most easyJet run a number of loss leaders and add to the fact they will be paying next to nothing for using IOM airport, it can be quite lucrative if they can fill their jets.

As for EXT getting a taste of thier own medicine - lets not forget that Flybe in it's various guises has been around now for over 30yrs, longer than both Ryanair and Easyjet combined.

So if an airline is older, it has more of a chance of competing? Try telling the legacy carriers that when easyJet and Ryanair turned up...

They have more than held their own against EZY/FR in BHD, seen off FR off domestics in BOH and BMIBaby out of BHX and CWL.

Do you have stats to show that they have 'held their own' against easyJet (who operate from a seperate airport) and FR?

BOH? That's my favourite of the day! How on planet earth can you compare SOU with BOH?!

BMIBaby are nothing compared to easyJet - once word gets around that easy are on the route, it will be the first port of call for most VFR passengers.

Something tells me that Flybe won't be scared off by a 737 or 319 painted orange!

I'd love to know what that 'something' is, it must be really special. By the way, it will be and A319

JobsaGoodun - keep these classic posts coming!

[Cloud1]

MUFC_Fan - This isnt a game you know. And I think quite possibly a lesson in airline economics would be of benefit to you of all people. For your information, Flybe are covering some of the tax themselves.

With regards to fares, may I remind everyone that Flybe are not a charity case. They have to make money and those airlines that offer seats for a few pounds have really struggled recently.

It still baffles me that people cannot understand or acknowledge that Flybe have regardless of whether anyone likes it, remained loyal to the island ever since Euromanx went bang. They could have stuck two fingers up and concentrated on routes which would actually make money because believe you me IOM is hardly adding pounds to their bank account or keeping them afloat.

Anyway there is nothing to worry about, it has been suggested here that the EZY route will be 6 times a week. So 1 extra flight a day isnt going to worry Exeter too much, hopefully it will encourage BE to respond by bringing in some more money making mainland services. LGW has been at the centre of much discussion I believe......heres hoping!

[JobsaGoodun]

Flybe have reduced their fares to compete. I doubt this was an easy decision for them to take but is evidence that they don't intend to hand the route over to EZY.

I didn't say that EZY would be charging £9.99 for every seat, merely that if they did, they still wouldn't make anything by operating the route.

The main difference between Flybe and the legacy carriers is that Flybe have been willing to make wholesale and successful changes to their business model when required, and are at the forefront of revenue creation via ancilliary revenues. This will easily help them to weather any competitive attempt.

You can check the CAA Domestic Air Stats online at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...e_Analysis.pdf. A comparison of EZY and BE ex BHD/BFS for November 2008/2009 shows as follows. It's only over one month but helps to demonstrate the point that BE are an able competitor for EZY.

BE ex BHD
LGW - up 29%
GLA - up 7%
EDI - down 5%
NCL - up 8%

EZY ex BFS
LGW - down 9%
GLA - down 1%
EDI - up 1%
NCL - up 11%

I've no doubt that EZY will be the main port of call for any VFR traffic, but it is this traffic that is most price sensitive and this will most likely increase the likelihood of EZY finding it hard to continue the route. On such a short trip, and at such low traffic volumes for the route, nothing can beat the economics of a turboprop so I'd hate to see what a 319 fuel burn is at such a low altitude.

Flybe won't be scared by EZY's move as they have enough business travellers who will be willing to pay the premium to do their business in a day and return to the island that evening. The luxury is that Flybe will be able to trim their schedules should they need too and still retain the early morning and later afternoon flights to keep the business, thereby reducing costs without losing the business traveller. EZY will not have the ability to do this and so I wouldn't expect them to last much past the date the subsidies come to an end.

It will be interesting to see what happens but it is also interesting to note some of the previous comments about how all airlines will typically avoid direct competition. When FR came to BHD, they chose not to compete on any of the multiple frequency Flybe routes directly such as MAN,BHX, EDI etc. They did however choose to go on BRS, EMA and LPL against EZY. It would be interesting to know why this is?

[MUFC_fan]

This isnt a game you know. And I think quite possibly a lesson in airline economics would be of benefit to you of all people. For your information, Flybe are covering some of the tax themselves.

I very much know this isn't a game! Jobs are at stake! If you would be able to prove that FlyBE are absorbing the tax then please do so - I would genuinely be interested to know as they seem to have higher taxes than any other airline in the UK on domestic services. I can understand that they operate smaller aircraft than that of BA, easyJet, Ryanair, BMI et al yet they always seem very excessive. Yet, as I have said across threads on this forum - it is always about the final price.

If we want to talk airline economics, please, lets do so. easyJet's arrival onto the island will benefit the consumer more so than business. A dramatic shift in supply and a fall in price level is definitely going to cause a rise in demand which would hopefully mean a rise in AD on the island through exports (passengers coming inbound and spending their pennies) which in turn can cause a multiplier effect with many industries on the island benefiting as a result. However, this is only measurable by how many flights easyJet plan, in the long term, to offer from the rock.

This shows that the airlines arrival will be both beneficial to the islanders but also passengers travelling between the two points, especially VFR passengers. I would like to point out at this moment the government's plan to cut NHS accessibility for IOM residents in the near future - the cheap fares could end up being a lifeline for these people in desperate need of care.

HOWEVER, everything comes with a cost. VFR traffic is nothing compared to that of the business traveller. How would the white collars react? It very much depends...will they change their plans and overnight with and easyJet flight (another export on the island) or travel from Manchester/Blackpool there and back in the day? It very much depends on how FlyBE play it and the future plans of the orange brigade.

If easyJet see a positive outcome over the summer on LPL then they may look at GLA, LGW, LTN, BRS or EDI - the expansion opportunities are great if they price the market right which is key.

FlyBE are going to have fight to the bone to keep easyJet at bay and I hope they do so, I genuinely do - for the sake of the people on the island who rely on the airline to support their families. However, my personal opinion is that they will not. I can see them pulling out of LPL (they have a track record!) as unfortunately they don't have the deep pockets of easyJet.

Anyway there is nothing to worry about, it has been suggested here that the EZY route will be 6 times a week. So 1 extra flight a day isnt going to worry Exeter too much, hopefully it will encourage BE to respond by bringing in some more money making mainland services.

There is something to worry about. When talking VFR (which is a major part of travel between the island and the city), frequency goes out of the window. It all relies on price and seat capacity. 156 seats each way means a rise of 50% in seat capacity per day on the route - that is a lot of seats to fill!

It seems that it has actually had some effect to those that matter down in Exeter who have released a press release before that of easyJet!

You then contradict yourself in saying "bringing in some more money making mainland services" where as a couple of lines earlier you say "because believe you me IOM is hardly adding pounds to their bank account or keeping them afloat."

As you can see, I have my opinion and that is that easyJet will finish FlyBE on the LPL run. I may have put it wrong across in another post but some of the cr*p spouted on here is just appauling. We, unfortunately, live in the real world and we live in a mixed economy with an oligopoly on the NW routes, but hey, what do I know about economics anyway?

Flybe won't be scared by EZY's move as they have enough business travellers who will be willing to pay the premium to do their business in a day and return to the island that evening. The luxury is that Flybe will be able to trim their schedules should they need too and still retain the early morning and later afternoon flights to keep the business, thereby reducing costs without losing the business traveller.

SENSE! Someone is finally talking sense!

[Tinwald]

Ooh fellas it'll be nitting needles at dawn. This ones goin to run and run

[mutleyshriek]

Guys I used to love visiting the Isle of Man and used to do it regular on id90 tickets.loved quids inn.If Ezy announce the route I for one will be back in a shot so my point is that it create much needed inbound visitors too.Its not all about getting off the Island ya know.......................

[jetstreamtechrecords]

You gotta admit MUFC talks sense. Its now down to how FlyBe react. I watched them attack Eastern on IOM SOU and IOM BHX and a year ago followed what they did to your little Manxy2 on BLK & BHD. Now the boot is on the other foot they will fight to start with but they can't keep runnin 4x daily with a 319 on the route too. Something will have to give.

[lfc84]

what A319....its all gone quiet....