Aer Arann
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They're all part of the same laissez-faire system which has allowed unfettered predatory behaviour by Ryanair, businesses in general, and the banks and corporations in particular.
We see now where that leads. Utter financial ruin through greed and mismanagement.
A new deal is needed - and will come. The Irish rebellion against Government mismanagement has started in the last few days.
The Pols are being taught a valuable lesson in Democracy and People Power.
I predict further advances in the next few years.
Laissez Faire deregulation is ending.
Time is up for O'Bleary and all the other Robber Barons.
We see now where that leads. Utter financial ruin through greed and mismanagement.
A new deal is needed - and will come. The Irish rebellion against Government mismanagement has started in the last few days.
The Pols are being taught a valuable lesson in Democracy and People Power.
I predict further advances in the next few years.
Laissez Faire deregulation is ending.
Time is up for O'Bleary and all the other Robber Barons.
Kapt K: I take issue with you at my peril, but...
What you are so keen to describe as "laissez faire" is in fact anything but. The PSO route thing is Government intervention in the form of subsidising otherwise commercially unviable routes. It may be socially justifiable, or it may be a waste of money, but laissez faire it most certainly is not.
If Irish aviation were entirely a matter of unfettered market forces, there would probably be one airport in the country. No prize for guessing.
What you are so keen to describe as "laissez faire" is in fact anything but. The PSO route thing is Government intervention in the form of subsidising otherwise commercially unviable routes. It may be socially justifiable, or it may be a waste of money, but laissez faire it most certainly is not.
If Irish aviation were entirely a matter of unfettered market forces, there would probably be one airport in the country. No prize for guessing.
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If Aer Arann's excistense is depending on 1 route (DUB-Kerry) for wich they needed govermnment support (pso) to fly, their business plan is very flawed.
Meetings between competitors to divy up the market or agree pricing is strictly forbidden according to competions laws, so molly was completely correct in throwing the Aer Arann ceo out of his office.
It is disapointing that the irish media has not picked up on this fact.
Meetings between competitors to divy up the market or agree pricing is strictly forbidden according to competions laws, so molly was completely correct in throwing the Aer Arann ceo out of his office.
It is disapointing that the irish media has not picked up on this fact.
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Hope they can make it!
I sincerely hope that Aer Arran manage to survive the current climate. But I think that there's going to be a lot more blood.
BTW BladePilot,
I found your post (including typesetting) to be grand!
vikingivesterled,
To the best of my knowledge, they had six PSO routes and lost two (Knock to CityJet and Kerry to RyanAir), leaving Galway, Sligo, Donegal and Derry.
You do however, IMO, bring up an interesting point about price fixing.
O'Leary is a mad little fella, but no matter how much you dislike his antics, you have to admire what he has achieved. It is one of the more unpleasant aspects of competition in the free(ish) market, when you see a big boy flatten a minnow by using their superior size. However, if you remove competition from the market, the results are even worse (ESB, Board Gas, etc). Just look at how communications is starting to improve in Ireland (and how long it took to do so) after the Eircom monopoly was broken (if not removed completely).
BTW BladePilot,
I found your post (including typesetting) to be grand!
vikingivesterled,
To the best of my knowledge, they had six PSO routes and lost two (Knock to CityJet and Kerry to RyanAir), leaving Galway, Sligo, Donegal and Derry.
You do however, IMO, bring up an interesting point about price fixing.
O'Leary is a mad little fella, but no matter how much you dislike his antics, you have to admire what he has achieved. It is one of the more unpleasant aspects of competition in the free(ish) market, when you see a big boy flatten a minnow by using their superior size. However, if you remove competition from the market, the results are even worse (ESB, Board Gas, etc). Just look at how communications is starting to improve in Ireland (and how long it took to do so) after the Eircom monopoly was broken (if not removed completely).
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Yes, but PPN MOL has forgotten his roots. He spent his early days constantly whining to government about the predatory parctices of Aer Lingus, which he was right to do, and were it not for the intervention of the late Seamus Brennan, then Minister for Transport, Ryanair would have failed. Now the tables have turned full circle and MOL has turned bully.....the difference today is the government are afraid of the bully.
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Where are the regulators?
1989 The Diminutive Minister for Transport - S Brennan, as the main shareholder in Aer Lingus, "Directs" Aer Lingus to terminate services on three routes that Ryanair want to operate. Ryanair take up two of the routes - they are refused access to EDDM as their BAC 1-11 aircraft are too noisy. Aer Lingus are still forced off the route.
Subsequently his brother, E Brennan, is appointed to the head of the IAA.
Ryanair are the IAA's biggest customer.
In a country which has numerous investigations ongoing into brown envelopes and political favours, is anyone surprised?
1989 The Diminutive Minister for Transport - S Brennan, as the main shareholder in Aer Lingus, "Directs" Aer Lingus to terminate services on three routes that Ryanair want to operate. Ryanair take up two of the routes - they are refused access to EDDM as their BAC 1-11 aircraft are too noisy. Aer Lingus are still forced off the route.
Subsequently his brother, E Brennan, is appointed to the head of the IAA.
Ryanair are the IAA's biggest customer.
In a country which has numerous investigations ongoing into brown envelopes and political favours, is anyone surprised?
Presume DUB ORK goes to Ryanair?
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Viking that is a totally incorrect statement to make, Arann have lots of profitable routes that are not PSO routes. Was the loss of the Dublin- Kerry route a blow 'yes', But they have very strong routes out of Galway Waterford Cork and Dublin that they have no competition on.Also The whole idea of PSO routes is regional development, Nearly every EU goverment has them.It gives people in busniess/leisure great connections to the rural parts of Ireland from Dublin Airport. PSO's are implemented to areas that can not be reached by rail or Road in the 3 hour mark and to develop the area and airport in general.Aer Arann have been awarded the contract for 5 of the 6 PSO's for very good reason they have done that, starting routes to the the UK from Donegal, Sligo, Galway and Kerry. Derry was also developed by Arann serving routes to the Uk, Before Ryanair moved in set up routes in competiton with them, Which I think they have cut this year. Ryanair has been good to Kerry airport developing new routes but a 738 on this PSO route is total over kill. Operating an aircraft that size on a route that short with Paxs figures usually under 70 will not be profitable for them, even with the subsides. Aer Arann is a small fish to Ryanair but a fish that competes with them sucessfully out of areas they can not operate, If Ryanair removed Aer Arann you may carry 600,000 or 800,000 paxs a year between the Irish-UK market through airports you want paxs to travel through. Get control over Aer lingus kill Aer Arann and you have control over 90% of the Irish Market and you can charge what you like. This is what I believe is the big picture. All carriers will be making cuts in one way or another and Aer Arann are no different. It is better to make the hard decisions now to make sure your busniess is leaner to cope with the winter ahead. I sincerely wish the staff effected directly and indirectly the best of luck.
Last edited by liffy2A; 25th Oct 2008 at 03:26.
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Hi I hope I don't get flamed for this because I've not posted on here very often and I don't actually work for Aer Arann - however as a fairly regular customer and someone that is passionate about airlines and the small guys I care about what happens to Aer Arann.
I have to agree with some of the points above, that the tables have really turned now, in that Ryanair used to complain about the bully boy tactics of the state airlines and now they are basically doing the same sort of thing. No doubt at all that they've been hugely successful and that should be applauded but it would be nice to think that Ryanair had the interests of Ireland at heart. Aer Arann provides something that it couldn't and can't. Ryanair started providing flights to places like Galway, I mean I even flew on EI-BYO in FR colours but they changed the model massively, however that was at a very different time in Ireland's economic development.
It seems to me that Aer Arann are taking a pro-active look at what they can do to prevent anything more serious occuring. With other, larger airlines looking at downsizing, and the increasing interest in turboprops RE could be on to something here.
Additionally, is what RE is doing any different in reality to what other airlines are doing and what most airlines do in the winter period. They stop seasonal flights. RE isn't grounding planes as such - FR is. RE is possibly going to cut some of the least profitable routes in the hope more money can be made with the charter/wet lease programme. To my (albeit non industry eyes) that seems like a sound plan. Titan Airways based at STN have a good profitable business - although it's their main focus. I think Eastern Airways does that sort of thing as well.
What really concerns me, as a traveller, is the absolute need to retain competition, retain jobs and skills and direct point to point travel options. I can say hand on heart I would rather travel on RE to an airport like Galway than say FR to Shannon. I'm not saying I do that every trip, but I would prefer.
The aviation industry is so volitile. I used to follow the ups and downs of TWA for years, their's was a bigger operation with many contsraints and historical problems. Aer Arann, is, in marked contrast pretty lean and nimble it's got focus and smart new planes. It's getting noticed. I hope for the people that work at RE that this proves to be a success, but I hope too that scheduled ops won't be impacted too severely.
My final thought is not about self promotion, quite the contrary really, I made a few RE vids and posted them on you tube one last week trying to emulate a sort of tv commercial. As a traveller and an aviation enthusiast that's how much I'd like to see RE succeed. That or I've got too much time on my hands! Surely the absolute worst that could happen in this environment is that RE shrinks to just the PSOs as income? however saying that they seem to have been increasing passenger no's for months on end I wonder if this is about trimming the peripheral services more than anything else. But that still affects people, those that care for and work for the airline.
Good luck to anyone working for RE and thanks for reading my thoughts.
I have to agree with some of the points above, that the tables have really turned now, in that Ryanair used to complain about the bully boy tactics of the state airlines and now they are basically doing the same sort of thing. No doubt at all that they've been hugely successful and that should be applauded but it would be nice to think that Ryanair had the interests of Ireland at heart. Aer Arann provides something that it couldn't and can't. Ryanair started providing flights to places like Galway, I mean I even flew on EI-BYO in FR colours but they changed the model massively, however that was at a very different time in Ireland's economic development.
It seems to me that Aer Arann are taking a pro-active look at what they can do to prevent anything more serious occuring. With other, larger airlines looking at downsizing, and the increasing interest in turboprops RE could be on to something here.
Additionally, is what RE is doing any different in reality to what other airlines are doing and what most airlines do in the winter period. They stop seasonal flights. RE isn't grounding planes as such - FR is. RE is possibly going to cut some of the least profitable routes in the hope more money can be made with the charter/wet lease programme. To my (albeit non industry eyes) that seems like a sound plan. Titan Airways based at STN have a good profitable business - although it's their main focus. I think Eastern Airways does that sort of thing as well.
What really concerns me, as a traveller, is the absolute need to retain competition, retain jobs and skills and direct point to point travel options. I can say hand on heart I would rather travel on RE to an airport like Galway than say FR to Shannon. I'm not saying I do that every trip, but I would prefer.
The aviation industry is so volitile. I used to follow the ups and downs of TWA for years, their's was a bigger operation with many contsraints and historical problems. Aer Arann, is, in marked contrast pretty lean and nimble it's got focus and smart new planes. It's getting noticed. I hope for the people that work at RE that this proves to be a success, but I hope too that scheduled ops won't be impacted too severely.
My final thought is not about self promotion, quite the contrary really, I made a few RE vids and posted them on you tube one last week trying to emulate a sort of tv commercial. As a traveller and an aviation enthusiast that's how much I'd like to see RE succeed. That or I've got too much time on my hands! Surely the absolute worst that could happen in this environment is that RE shrinks to just the PSOs as income? however saying that they seem to have been increasing passenger no's for months on end I wonder if this is about trimming the peripheral services more than anything else. But that still affects people, those that care for and work for the airline.
Good luck to anyone working for RE and thanks for reading my thoughts.
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I somehow doubt there is a long term future for Aer Arann now. Their problem isn't just Ryanair although it is a problem. I firmly believe that O'Leary bid low for the PSO route to Kerry to oust Aer Arann and apply pressure. They would do the same on other PSO routes if it wasn't for the fact that a 738 would never make it into most of the airports RE serves. If Galway ever extended that narrow bumpy, short runway. They would be in like a flash and undercut Aer Arann completely. Galway is a prize waiting for the right winner. It wouldn't surprise me if O'Leary put up money to extend the runway.
Aer Arann's other problem is that people are travelling less and wanting to spend less money. Their fares while reasonable cannot match the big boys and their routes out of regional airports not that attractive. They can't compete with the bigger outfits from the larger airports with ATRs either.
I hope they survive but the idea of charter smacks of desperation.
Aer Arann's other problem is that people are travelling less and wanting to spend less money. Their fares while reasonable cannot match the big boys and their routes out of regional airports not that attractive. They can't compete with the bigger outfits from the larger airports with ATRs either.
I hope they survive but the idea of charter smacks of desperation.
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hello corsair, I agree with your comment about Ryanair bidding low on the PSO to make a point about public subsidies being used to fund services. But having said that, there is also the aspect of predatory pricing, I'm not sure what the regulations are in relation to it, but I would have though that if one company was able to charge nothing, run at a loss in order to try and put another company out of business, then that could be deemed as predatory and against the consumer interest.
Would Ryanair really put up the money for a runway extension there given that they operate from Knock, Shannon and Kerry all on the west coast and given that they are basically the primary carrier at Shannon. The only reason I would think FR using Galway like that is if they could screw their management for an even better deal than they get at SNN.
I'd agree that people are tightening their belts and travelling less - but that's going to affect all carriers in all modes of transport as well. RE need to be able to offer the sort of service business people want - quick, reliable and on time. FR do a great job on the on time front, but dont' necessarily take someone to their business destination. RE need to emulate VLM! they've been consistently profitable for years.
Lastly, the ATR is a very good aircraft, but I would agree that some ppl have mixed views of turboprop. I was once in Dublin and got chatting to a guy that compared them to the toy things with a rubber band - seriously - he was trying to suggest props are not as strong or safe as a jet. Anyone with an interest in aviation knows that's untrue. But perceptions count. The fact RE have got in new planes is a good selling point.
A lot of the problem I think is probably marketing - i doubt they have much budget so they can't get into the mainstream. interestingly I thought the other day that their current chairman is leaving/sitting on the board and another guy taking over and he has a management accounting background... if that's the case, then the bottom line and forecasting will be his primary concern.
I go on too much - but - remember before Ryanair became what they are now - they did a massive retrenchment of their services then literally exploded everywhere. Some say shrinking to profitability doesn't work - but right-sizing to the economy and what it will support might. I don't know.
Charter may be desperate in some senses but the wet leasing is better - they do that now. I was in Glasgow Int'l a few weeks ago and they have an ATR72 in there, I thought it was odd or a diversion but found out later it#s on Flybe lease.
Sorry to go on.
Would Ryanair really put up the money for a runway extension there given that they operate from Knock, Shannon and Kerry all on the west coast and given that they are basically the primary carrier at Shannon. The only reason I would think FR using Galway like that is if they could screw their management for an even better deal than they get at SNN.
I'd agree that people are tightening their belts and travelling less - but that's going to affect all carriers in all modes of transport as well. RE need to be able to offer the sort of service business people want - quick, reliable and on time. FR do a great job on the on time front, but dont' necessarily take someone to their business destination. RE need to emulate VLM! they've been consistently profitable for years.
Lastly, the ATR is a very good aircraft, but I would agree that some ppl have mixed views of turboprop. I was once in Dublin and got chatting to a guy that compared them to the toy things with a rubber band - seriously - he was trying to suggest props are not as strong or safe as a jet. Anyone with an interest in aviation knows that's untrue. But perceptions count. The fact RE have got in new planes is a good selling point.
A lot of the problem I think is probably marketing - i doubt they have much budget so they can't get into the mainstream. interestingly I thought the other day that their current chairman is leaving/sitting on the board and another guy taking over and he has a management accounting background... if that's the case, then the bottom line and forecasting will be his primary concern.
I go on too much - but - remember before Ryanair became what they are now - they did a massive retrenchment of their services then literally exploded everywhere. Some say shrinking to profitability doesn't work - but right-sizing to the economy and what it will support might. I don't know.
Charter may be desperate in some senses but the wet leasing is better - they do that now. I was in Glasgow Int'l a few weeks ago and they have an ATR72 in there, I thought it was odd or a diversion but found out later it#s on Flybe lease.
Sorry to go on.
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I would like to echo some of the sentiments expressed, I have flown as a passenger with them a few times and also work along side on the operational side.
Their customer service on board reminds me of what Aer Lingus used to have.You get on board and feel that you are home. From my experience they are a no bullsh1t, get on with the job airline.
Aer Arann has a core business out of the Irish Regional Airports that hopefully is profitable and will remain so. But anywhere they cross swords with "Ruinair" they are in for a bloody nose. I think they now realise this and are taking the right action.
I know that the staff of Aer Arann are going through a very tough time at the moment and I hope they come out the other end a leaner and fitter company capable of taking whatever sh1t is fired at them over the lean winter.
I dearly hope they will not only survive but prosper, they deserve to.
Their customer service on board reminds me of what Aer Lingus used to have.You get on board and feel that you are home. From my experience they are a no bullsh1t, get on with the job airline.
Aer Arann has a core business out of the Irish Regional Airports that hopefully is profitable and will remain so. But anywhere they cross swords with "Ruinair" they are in for a bloody nose. I think they now realise this and are taking the right action.
I know that the staff of Aer Arann are going through a very tough time at the moment and I hope they come out the other end a leaner and fitter company capable of taking whatever sh1t is fired at them over the lean winter.
I dearly hope they will not only survive but prosper, they deserve to.
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It'll be interesting to see what happens there. They said that it would affect marginal, non-core routes and they have more frequency on that route than any other. The Aer Lingus code share might come into play as well.
I'd suggest the most threatened routes are the Ireland-UK routes with frequencies below daily (or daily excl Sat).
Those are
Donegal-Prestwick
Galway-Edinburgh
Sligo-Manchester
Kerry-Manchester (This might be particularly vulnerable with the Kerry PSO gone)
But those alone wouldn't justify dropping three aircraft. So there will probably be a few routes where they drop rotations as well.
I'm not sure what will happen with the Galway-Waterford-Amsterdam route. I doubt it's profitable at the moment, so whether they continue to try to grow it might depend on how much of a cash problem they have.
I'd suggest the most threatened routes are the Ireland-UK routes with frequencies below daily (or daily excl Sat).
Those are
Donegal-Prestwick
Galway-Edinburgh
Sligo-Manchester
Kerry-Manchester (This might be particularly vulnerable with the Kerry PSO gone)
But those alone wouldn't justify dropping three aircraft. So there will probably be a few routes where they drop rotations as well.
I'm not sure what will happen with the Galway-Waterford-Amsterdam route. I doubt it's profitable at the moment, so whether they continue to try to grow it might depend on how much of a cash problem they have.
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RE Currently has 2 aircraft at GLA on a Flybe lease due to late delivery of some Dash8-Q400's.
one a/c is usually operating the BE1431/2 which is GLA-CWL-CDG-CWL-GLA
Aer Arann has been operating a lot of charter work especially for rugby teams it is not rare to see them on charter work at CWL and seems like a couple of teams like to use them.
Cardiff Blues used to use them from time to time even though BmiBaby used to be their sponsors which was quite amusing.
I have a feeling that the ORK-CWL may go as it has had some days removed from the schedule.
one a/c is usually operating the BE1431/2 which is GLA-CWL-CDG-CWL-GLA
Aer Arann has been operating a lot of charter work especially for rugby teams it is not rare to see them on charter work at CWL and seems like a couple of teams like to use them.
Cardiff Blues used to use them from time to time even though BmiBaby used to be their sponsors which was quite amusing.
I have a feeling that the ORK-CWL may go as it has had some days removed from the schedule.
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Like many on the forum I really believe in Aer Arann - they are a fantastic regional airline and a wonderful Irish Domestic Airline. I felt it a shame when FR started ORK DUB as this was always a preserve of Aer Arann.
If MOL is to canabalise Irish Aviation he will distroy the love and experiece of two airlines that are national carriers.
Ryanair is nothing but a stealth cancer airline that thrives on extinguishing the good work and high standards of those in the travel industry.
They replace quaility with a low service alternative that is only ok to their business model. Everyone hates travelling on Ryanair.
I dont want FR to extend any more services in Ireland. They are the froth on the worst aspects of the Celtic Tiger.
If MOL is to canabalise Irish Aviation he will distroy the love and experiece of two airlines that are national carriers.
Ryanair is nothing but a stealth cancer airline that thrives on extinguishing the good work and high standards of those in the travel industry.
They replace quaility with a low service alternative that is only ok to their business model. Everyone hates travelling on Ryanair.
I dont want FR to extend any more services in Ireland. They are the froth on the worst aspects of the Celtic Tiger.
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Completely passenger point of view. Recently flew STN-DUB with FR and onwards DUB-SXL with RE and return. FR was what it always is: herded about, shouted at in an East European accent, incessant jingles and hard sell of over-priced tat, blindingly bright and tacky cabin and then literally thrown out at the other end. As I have posted before, I expect nothing more and it got me from STN to DUB on time. Change to Aer Arann’s ATR42 at DUB for onward leg to Sligo – what a difference. It’s a completely different business model I know but cabin attendants both ways were charming, chatted to passengers and made it all feel warm and snuggly and a lovely way to start a long weekend. At €30 each way DUB-SXL (PSO subsidised I presume), this was a much easier and far quicker way to get to the north than by the ludicrous IE train services. Aer Arann does have a niche market and will consistently win people back with good service and well planned timetables. There are plenty of places that an ATR/turboprop can go that Ryanair can’t and won’t. Going back to an earlier poster, VLM is indeed a good model to compare to. I have travelled with them since their inauguration in 1993 and they continue to deliver a quality product, serving niches routes, using trusty old F50’s with good timetables and mindful of inbound and onward connections.
Good luck to Aer Arann.
Good luck to Aer Arann.