NOW Aircraft...anyone know where they are?
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Just wonder how much debt this company has acquired by still being non operational after all this time, as there are wages and bills to pay and so far income is nil. The airline must be in great danger with all this debt sitting over it particularly as a first operating profit must be a few years away. The question is can they last that long before someone gets cold feet?
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Oh dear, here we go again.
JMC-man would appear to feel threatened by NOW, suggesting he may be in a similar sector to us. He also always appears to get the last word (and most acidic) before a thread is closed, but not removed. Other people's comments may be edited by mods, but not JMC-man's. We know of a certain 737 management pilot who is a mod on this site... see where I'm going with this?
The simple point is that we have suffered a delay caused by EZY's late and poor ac return. Original speculation was that this may have been an attempt at commercial sabotage, but incompetence is more likely. This is playing into NOW's hands though, as EZY are having to spend a ot more on tha ac to return them, and are paying compensation for the hold up. Furthermore, NOW has delayed its'schedule launch to a time where sales pick up, with reduced time pressure to complete training and advertising.
I, and the other first batch pilots, have seen the full commercial website, including the booking system and routes. It's all there, ready to go. The first ac will be ready imminently, with the second not too long away.
Ezy have just rented several rooms on the same floor in Halcyon House. I'm sure they are listening and watching closely. If EZY appear concerned about NOW, then how can we lack credibility?
Answers on a postcard to JMC-man.
JMC-man would appear to feel threatened by NOW, suggesting he may be in a similar sector to us. He also always appears to get the last word (and most acidic) before a thread is closed, but not removed. Other people's comments may be edited by mods, but not JMC-man's. We know of a certain 737 management pilot who is a mod on this site... see where I'm going with this?
The simple point is that we have suffered a delay caused by EZY's late and poor ac return. Original speculation was that this may have been an attempt at commercial sabotage, but incompetence is more likely. This is playing into NOW's hands though, as EZY are having to spend a ot more on tha ac to return them, and are paying compensation for the hold up. Furthermore, NOW has delayed its'schedule launch to a time where sales pick up, with reduced time pressure to complete training and advertising.
I, and the other first batch pilots, have seen the full commercial website, including the booking system and routes. It's all there, ready to go. The first ac will be ready imminently, with the second not too long away.
Ezy have just rented several rooms on the same floor in Halcyon House. I'm sure they are listening and watching closely. If EZY appear concerned about NOW, then how can we lack credibility?
Answers on a postcard to JMC-man.
Interesting that the same guy responsible for the flying side of the hand back is also likely to be the same guy responsible for the flying side of the acceptance. So the highest standards are likely to be expected from EZY.
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I do indeed see where you're going with your logic Whippersnapper and I'm a little puzzled.
As far as I know I've been the person deleting or editing posts on the subject of Now. I don't work for any airline and if you scroll back in this saga you'll find a post by me extolling one aspect of the setup in, unnaturally for me, positive terms.
The posts I've worked on this and other threads were repeated gushing advertorials from individuals in the UK and Spain. When barred they reregistered to post them again repeatedly. I think you'll understand that this is something we'd far rather the founders of the company paid for - just like your wages. I even suggested some simple and very effective copy
Additionally, I think you'll find said 737 management pilot fully supported my little notion in writing. How the hell is that knocking a startup? In a time when zero quality of life is the foremost subject for shorthaul pilots it's the most effective free ad you've ever had!!
Incidently I barred 3 registrations from easyLand computers last month while they were trying to plug their latest recruitment for free. Their posts were deleted. There's equality and consistency in my jackbooting..........
If anyone contributing to this thread or any other concerning NOW has had any substantive point, rather than an ad, contact url or beer goggled outburst, edited or deleted please speak up now and reiterate what you wanted to say.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
As far as I know I've been the person deleting or editing posts on the subject of Now. I don't work for any airline and if you scroll back in this saga you'll find a post by me extolling one aspect of the setup in, unnaturally for me, positive terms.
The posts I've worked on this and other threads were repeated gushing advertorials from individuals in the UK and Spain. When barred they reregistered to post them again repeatedly. I think you'll understand that this is something we'd far rather the founders of the company paid for - just like your wages. I even suggested some simple and very effective copy
Additionally, I think you'll find said 737 management pilot fully supported my little notion in writing. How the hell is that knocking a startup? In a time when zero quality of life is the foremost subject for shorthaul pilots it's the most effective free ad you've ever had!!
Incidently I barred 3 registrations from easyLand computers last month while they were trying to plug their latest recruitment for free. Their posts were deleted. There's equality and consistency in my jackbooting..........
If anyone contributing to this thread or any other concerning NOW has had any substantive point, rather than an ad, contact url or beer goggled outburst, edited or deleted please speak up now and reiterate what you wanted to say.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 18th Nov 2003 at 00:23.
Although I am disappointed that Now isn't flying yet, I do see the logic of holding back at this stage.
If they get aircraft etc in place ready to sell lots of seats over Christmas, their original launch date of 11th December would have been sensible.
Having missed that, mid-Feb looks sensible. The half-term week is always busy, and then there's only 6-8 weeks until Easter and the summer schedules - enough time to iron out any wrinkles and get everything together.
The cost of paying crew for these few weeks pales into insignificance compared to the losses that could be incurred by flying real planes with no punters. (leases, fuel, maintenance, higher payroll costs, fees and charges, all creating debtors).
I'm looking forward to seeing a few green-lettered 737s at Luton in '04.
If they get aircraft etc in place ready to sell lots of seats over Christmas, their original launch date of 11th December would have been sensible.
Having missed that, mid-Feb looks sensible. The half-term week is always busy, and then there's only 6-8 weeks until Easter and the summer schedules - enough time to iron out any wrinkles and get everything together.
The cost of paying crew for these few weeks pales into insignificance compared to the losses that could be incurred by flying real planes with no punters. (leases, fuel, maintenance, higher payroll costs, fees and charges, all creating debtors).
I'm looking forward to seeing a few green-lettered 737s at Luton in '04.
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Whippersnapper,
Just where exactly are you going with this.
I have a number of former colleagues in NOW and want them to succeed in their venture. I've made no secret of that fact.
Looking through both threads that have been running, there appears to be as many NOW enthusiasts as there are sceptics. Thats life, and particularly in these forums.
I will endorse Rob's theme that NOW have one of, if not the best crew Rosterer in the business, which should be a huge draw for anyone who has the pleasure of working with him.
Can I suggest that your efforts would be better directed and concentrated in getting the Airline up and running successfully rather than trying to descredit the sceptics on this site.
Hamrah
Just where exactly are you going with this.
I have a number of former colleagues in NOW and want them to succeed in their venture. I've made no secret of that fact.
Looking through both threads that have been running, there appears to be as many NOW enthusiasts as there are sceptics. Thats life, and particularly in these forums.
I will endorse Rob's theme that NOW have one of, if not the best crew Rosterer in the business, which should be a huge draw for anyone who has the pleasure of working with him.
Can I suggest that your efforts would be better directed and concentrated in getting the Airline up and running successfully rather than trying to descredit the sceptics on this site.
Hamrah
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Whippersnapper said of jmc-man "suggesting he may be in a similar sector to us". What sector is that? The airline with no aircraft or customers sector???
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Well said, Hamrah, I do despair at the cynics. I cannot understand the negativity of some of these people who wish NOW to fail. They should by now realise that we are not going to go away, and that NOW will not launch until they are ready. If only they could be at some of the meetings the CEO attends. The most difficult one must have been where he had to stand infront of over 50 people to say we were once again delayed.
He stood proud with conviction and we saw his disappointment but also his realism. I have entrusted my future career in Lars Wellinder, and in return he has my confidence. I don't know the whole picture and I am within the company. Those outside are hardly in the position to dictate what happens, so I wish they would concede that NOW has not in effect turned into Mama Air, or any of those to which they are compared. NOW once airborne will be a force to be reckoned with up to 20 aircraft by 2006 and bases all over Europe as we are a European company not just a domestic player.So I invite the cynics to at least concede that NOW will fly, and NOW will be successful.
He stood proud with conviction and we saw his disappointment but also his realism. I have entrusted my future career in Lars Wellinder, and in return he has my confidence. I don't know the whole picture and I am within the company. Those outside are hardly in the position to dictate what happens, so I wish they would concede that NOW has not in effect turned into Mama Air, or any of those to which they are compared. NOW once airborne will be a force to be reckoned with up to 20 aircraft by 2006 and bases all over Europe as we are a European company not just a domestic player.So I invite the cynics to at least concede that NOW will fly, and NOW will be successful.
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FLYMATE
You say "NOW will not go away". They haven't actually arrived yet, have they!?
Maybe you should re-read PPT's and Hamrah's posts. Enough of the eulogies, ortherwise this thread will also be terminated.
You say "NOW will not go away". They haven't actually arrived yet, have they!?
Maybe you should re-read PPT's and Hamrah's posts. Enough of the eulogies, ortherwise this thread will also be terminated.
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Returning towards the orginal thread, this NOW lark, seems to have turned into a bit of a soap opera.
Will it?, Won't it?, Has any one seen one yet?.............the list goes on
Come on guys, I think most people here would love to see it suceed, but this is turning into a bit of a farce!
It is now time for some credibility, I know many good guys that have joined up, and have heard their estimates of being on line etc, but I would hate to see them shafted.
Stay tuned!!!
Will it?, Won't it?, Has any one seen one yet?.............the list goes on
Come on guys, I think most people here would love to see it suceed, but this is turning into a bit of a farce!
It is now time for some credibility, I know many good guys that have joined up, and have heard their estimates of being on line etc, but I would hate to see them shafted.
Stay tuned!!!
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Please tread carefully Flymate. Your posts may well have an effect diametrically opposed to your intentions.
Aviation pros end up a pretty cynical bunch - they can be inspired but it's generally from above. A Babs, a Hamrah and, I would venture to suggest, Uncle Frank in your flight ops team with someone like Nick Watts backing up promises of a real life.
However, when the message comes from lower down the food chain and carries no substantive point or news of progress it can smack of self delusion or justification. This may seem uncharitable or unfair but I'd like you to think it through.
The threads have been closed each time NOW has acheived a milestone along the way - they had become fixated on such things. We will be happy to clear the air with a new thread on receipt of AOC.
Best Wishes to you all,
Rob Lloyd
Aviation pros end up a pretty cynical bunch - they can be inspired but it's generally from above. A Babs, a Hamrah and, I would venture to suggest, Uncle Frank in your flight ops team with someone like Nick Watts backing up promises of a real life.
However, when the message comes from lower down the food chain and carries no substantive point or news of progress it can smack of self delusion or justification. This may seem uncharitable or unfair but I'd like you to think it through.
The threads have been closed each time NOW has acheived a milestone along the way - they had become fixated on such things. We will be happy to clear the air with a new thread on receipt of AOC.
Best Wishes to you all,
Rob Lloyd
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A fair point made by you. Please excuse my enthusiasm for NOW, we have been waiting for a long time. I did actually start another thread called NOW- A great beginning-maybe a little premature. So as to what you wish to do with those threads is of course up to you as a moderator. Pehaps start one off in a few weeks when a launch date is announced. Anyway, I always enjoy reading the comments, sometimes to be amused by the comments from people not involved in the venture. I hope the threads can continue, but as I said, it is up to you.
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Maybe Mr Moderator would (or should) close the thread and open a poll "will NOW start or will NOW not". I for one think it's high time that EZY/RYR had some more competition so I'm all for NOW getting going. I also do understand the reasons behind an ongoing delayed launch. Question is, how long will the backers keep backing with no revenue coming in. Lets hope they keep it going and give EZY/RYR and others a run for their so-called low fares ! RYR are paying their passengers a £1 each to entice them to buy seats. Are RYR seat sales beginning to drop off? What with CRL possibly closing, surely now is the time for NOW to get on the band wagon 
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Flymate - I'm no cynic, I'm on your side!
PPT & Hamra:
I'm not trying to annoy anyone, just to defend one side of the arguement. I appologise if I appeared aggressive, but what I was getting at was the fact that there a few people who ignore the facts and are spreading malicious rhumour, not just general scuttlebutt, that would suggest they have a vested interest in NOW's failure, and are trying to bring that on by creating a confidence vacuum amongst prospective emplyees, pax and investors. JMC-man is one of the more obvious, but there are others too.
What concerns me is not that these posters make their negative remarks (after all we are all entitled to an opinion and this forum is designed for us to express those opinions and try to change those of others), but the fact that threads seem to be closed down if a NOW employee makes too many positve posts (what would you expect?), as in the threat to FLYMATE, and they get closed down with the final word going to the cynics. That sort of moderating does not seem very "moderate" to me - surely the mods should only close/edit threads for foul or abusive language, or overly defamatory remarks, not for someone's stance on the very subject under debate?
PPT & Hamra:
I'm not trying to annoy anyone, just to defend one side of the arguement. I appologise if I appeared aggressive, but what I was getting at was the fact that there a few people who ignore the facts and are spreading malicious rhumour, not just general scuttlebutt, that would suggest they have a vested interest in NOW's failure, and are trying to bring that on by creating a confidence vacuum amongst prospective emplyees, pax and investors. JMC-man is one of the more obvious, but there are others too.
What concerns me is not that these posters make their negative remarks (after all we are all entitled to an opinion and this forum is designed for us to express those opinions and try to change those of others), but the fact that threads seem to be closed down if a NOW employee makes too many positve posts (what would you expect?), as in the threat to FLYMATE, and they get closed down with the final word going to the cynics. That sort of moderating does not seem very "moderate" to me - surely the mods should only close/edit threads for foul or abusive language, or overly defamatory remarks, not for someone's stance on the very subject under debate?
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Welcome back Whippersnapper,
Firstly, 30 hours on and no-one has come back with a single instance of us altering, editing or deleting a word.
Next on the agenda - the closing of threads. The basic psychology is this: the threads evolve into circular arguments regarding the progression of Now to active business. Through 8 years of running the site we've discovered the hard way that getting through a particular milestone is effectively discarded because a long running thread develops a life and baggage of its own between protagonists.
Thus you will see that the last thread was shut down immediately after the proving flight with these words from hamrah:
This was to effectively draw a line under a vast amount of the discussion and move on. Loads of you reading this - so here's the question. Can you draw any other inference towards our actions or congratulations on the proving flight??? The test must surely be not that you agree with us but that what we are doing is reasonable and unbiased.
Our mods are very careful and without exception have been exposed to the frail realities of our business. Some of you may have seen my note on R+N last night to another group of upset and worried crew where I mentioned the 5 airline failures in my home alone.
We bend over backwards to keep it fair yet still give you a voice and we constantly compare notes in a private forum that you can't see.
Finally, I must apologise - my three interventions have disrupted the flow of this thread and, in some ways, it would be the correct moment to allow it to again start refreshed. However, for consistency's sake, the granting of the AOC remains the right time to throw away all the foregoing discussion and move on.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
Firstly, 30 hours on and no-one has come back with a single instance of us altering, editing or deleting a word.
Next on the agenda - the closing of threads. The basic psychology is this: the threads evolve into circular arguments regarding the progression of Now to active business. Through 8 years of running the site we've discovered the hard way that getting through a particular milestone is effectively discarded because a long running thread develops a life and baggage of its own between protagonists.
Thus you will see that the last thread was shut down immediately after the proving flight with these words from hamrah:
After 7 weeks and ten pages, it would appear it's time to move on with this thread.
Best Wishes and well done to my friends in NOW.
Time for a new thread ( if required)
H
Best Wishes and well done to my friends in NOW.
Time for a new thread ( if required)
H
Our mods are very careful and without exception have been exposed to the frail realities of our business. Some of you may have seen my note on R+N last night to another group of upset and worried crew where I mentioned the 5 airline failures in my home alone.
We bend over backwards to keep it fair yet still give you a voice and we constantly compare notes in a private forum that you can't see.
Finally, I must apologise - my three interventions have disrupted the flow of this thread and, in some ways, it would be the correct moment to allow it to again start refreshed. However, for consistency's sake, the granting of the AOC remains the right time to throw away all the foregoing discussion and move on.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 19th Nov 2003 at 05:44.
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Question. If, as rumour has it, that commercial flights may well start mid-february, what would be the usual lead time prior to this, for the commercial launch to the travel industry, joe public, marketing, and of course ticket sales, without which there would be no airline. Four, eight, twelve, sixteen weeks or more ?. In order to maximise bookings, one would think the longer lead time the better, but in these days of intense competion and commercially sensitive information, not wanting to give anything to your competitors until the last minute, lest they jump on the route bandwagon, a short lead time might be more appropriate. So, is it likely that bookings and a marketing campaign etc will start this side of Chistmas, i.e. within the next 4/5 weeks, so everyone will know what Now is about, route destinations, prices etc, or will we move into January 2004 before anything is made public. Or later .................
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Depending on the choice of routes, April would be the most sensible start time. I presume this is why April 2003 was the initial target start date. Easter is a good time to get people travelling and it gives a good jump off platform for the summer.
However, NOW would have to manage the salary situation with the people who had already started.
I'm not sure the lease companies would wait that long either, but that would depend on whether NOW had moved past the LOI stage and paid the deposit. A bit of hard negotiation might get them to defer the lease start date.
The only other problem with waiting until April would be that Summer slots would have to be confirmed. I think the slot conference was last week, so hopefully yhey have secured any slots they need. Having said that, is Luton slot controlled??
However, NOW would have to manage the salary situation with the people who had already started.
I'm not sure the lease companies would wait that long either, but that would depend on whether NOW had moved past the LOI stage and paid the deposit. A bit of hard negotiation might get them to defer the lease start date.
The only other problem with waiting until April would be that Summer slots would have to be confirmed. I think the slot conference was last week, so hopefully yhey have secured any slots they need. Having said that, is Luton slot controlled??