1Time Pilot Losses

[beechbum]

bianchi...you right chap. Tend to lose the plot hand flying un der extreme conditions......
Now fellas back to the topic at hand. Any idea where 1-Time's chiefie went to...no one has actually mentioned anything yet (I think)
Anyway catch ya next time............

[imustbemad]

Heard that the soon to be Chief Pilot is going corporate. Good luck to him. Question now is who are they going to replace him with? My money is on the DFO who happens to have a financial interest in the company.That way they can keep all their cards very close at hand and what little representation the pilot body had (through no fault of the departing Chief Pilot) can be further eroded. Also heard that the recent ad placed for Captains solicited minimal interest. I guess you reap what you sow!!!

jjb: nothing suspicious about the guys not having anything positive to say. A person can only remain positive for so long but once the vaseline runs out the smile dissapears. Glad to hear that you are happy at 1time and hope that you stay that way but the smiling assassin, his two yapping sidekicks and apathy toward crew will no doubt take care of that in time. I hope I'm wrong.
bp: A bit harsh to attack jjb for airing his opinion. This spread is about the way the boys upstairs are treating their crew. We as pilots should be out drinking beer together not attacking each other over differing opinions.

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by imustbemad

..but don't forget to sign the bill at least 8 hours before sign on. Shouldn't be a problem with the generous layover times afforded to the crew...

@imustbemad : Your little dig about signing the bill at least 8 hours before sign on is a clear dig at the two pilots who were "dismissed" earlier this year in a "related" incident. You do ALL 1time pilots a discredit by trying to justify the behaviour of the two concerned people, and to try insinuate that the incident was related to layover times being too short. Need I remind you that the two pilots concerned held the following morning's flight up by over and hour, the co-pilot flew the whole day minus shoes!!!!!, and that the airline lost a major corporate client over the fiasco. It was monumental lack of judgement from the pilots concerned - I wouldnt want either of them flying me around given their total disregard for passenger safety...

Originally Posted by glorybusdriver

?. Guys must get the Sunday times this sunday, 1 time looking for captains. Poor First officers, 1 time dont even look their own guys, parently they are all too young.

@glorybusdriver : Your information is wrong. All the First Officers that were eligle for command got it - 3 people if I am not mistaken. The balance of the FOs who would have otherwise been eligle for command did not get it for a very simple reason : they do not have ATPs, or in the case of one individual, do not have South African ATPs. I believe all FOs concerned have been with the airline since day 1 (I may be mistaken here), and come from Millionaire days. They have had adequate opportunity to get their ATPs sorted but none have managed yet. These are the same FOs that are complaining that they are "so hard done by".... They dont leave because they cant

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by TownshipDog

Boypilot:
Another thing, as far as I understand the 1time a/c are all built in the 80's, not in the 60's...I haven't noticed any Comets or 707's sitting on the apron painted red lately...

Off to go FLY now, later guys...

Actually, the one thing boypilot is right about, is the age of ONE of the planes. ZS-ANX is 40 years old, and apparently does have a crap radar. As far as I am aware though, its NOT used often on coastal routes - it mainly does Jozi - Bloem. Apparently its also about to get its radar replaced with one from one of the decom'ed DC-9s (NRA/NRB/NRC).

Here are the active fleet details for interests sake :

ZS-ANX - DC9-15 - MSN45799 - 1st FLIGHT 26-10-66
ZS-NNN - DC9-30 - MSN47516 - 1st FLIGHT 11-05-71
ZS-TRD - DC9-82 - MSN48022 - 1st FLIGHT 21-09-82
ZS-TRE - DC9-82 - MSN49387 - 1st FLIGHT 04-06-88
ZS-OPZ - DC9-83 - MSN49617 - 1st FLIGHT 06-04-88
ZS-OPX - DC9-83 - MSN53012 - 1st FLIGHT 01-06-90

OPZ and OPX are leased from Safair.

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by Romeo E.T.

I agree with your statement....to be able to list on the JSE as 1Time is planning to do means that the company is financially sound but needs a "capital injection" to fund further expansion...maybe this is why the impression of under payment/over-worked/no bonuses etc is managements way of trying to get the financial statements "over the top" so as to qualify for JSE listing.

Erm, investors are not stupid. Since the dot com bust and recent Enron swindles, investors, in particular those that invest in the aviation industry, have become very shrewd. There are also certain auditing requirements that a company must comply with before they can list, particularly if you look abroad (regulations such as SOX etc). There are not hoards of people out there waiting to throw good money after bad. What investors are looking for are things like good corporate governance (1time scores highly here - Mr O keeps his finger tightly on the pulse, whether it pleases the pilots or not), market leadership, competition (threats), the amount of years its going to take before the dividends pay the investment back, cash flow, capital invested and return on capital invested, and goodwill. In addition, all listed companies have to produce an annual report according to the (for the moment at least) the GAAP standards. In this report, remuneration at a director level is fully disclosed, plus all interests. Legal compliancy is also disclosed, and as a member of the public or a 1time employee, you will be able to see what is disclosed and challenge it if you feel its misrepresentative or wrong (for example, if the pilots are working more than the legal maximum hours). With regards to the pay issues surrounding pilots - one word for people complaining - amico...

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by beechbum

Countingteeth.....check ZS-TRE's first flight date.....????

oops, sorted sticky fingers - it should be 1988. Thanks!

[JeanJacquesBurnel]

Originally Posted by boypilot

People like you are so much a part of the problem you self righteous w ker !

Ooooh! Eh! Eh! Obviously we all HAVE to agree with boypilot's post otherwise he feels the need to get rude...

Ok, ok, I give in.... 1Time is an utterly useless airline and I am a fool to work there. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa I will start thrashing myself senseless just as soon as I have apologised for having a civilized opinion.

Damn! I'm sure going to miss those MD83's that I fly mostly...

[jojojett]

JJB, without getting "rude", may I suggest that you ARE part of the problem at 1Time? As long as there are members of the pilot body who do just blindly "toe the line" for management, by flying not so legal hours and clearly unseviceable aircraft without standing up and protesting, then said management WILL expect it of all the pilots, all the time, thereby creating a VERY dangerous culture within the airline.
If you think for one minute that the people upstairs have your interests at heart at all then, I fear you are sadly mistaken, the minute the brown stuff hits the fan, they will wash their hands and hang you out to dry. Flying in those conditions without constantly asking questions and raising flags is not only criminally stupid, but just plain dangerous. Wake up mate, NOBODY is going to give you a noddy-badge or think you're a "hero" for suffering that kind of negligence in silence. Bottom line: you have to cover your own arse and look after your own licence, and the only way to do that is by haing a strongly represented pilot body, not by trying to impress the people that care less for you than snakesh@#t.
To the pilots at 1Time, keep up the work guys, make the bean counters answerable to the blatant disregard for the safety of their passangers and crew. The question of safety in aviation will NEVER be addressed adequately as long as a few (self serving) pilots continually disregard the very rules that are there for there own safety (maybe that was the reason you got a bonus that you weren't entitled to??).
I say; if you want to be some kind of "war-hero", great, go do it in a single seater, far away from innocent people, nobody really cares. Don't, however, stroke your ego whilst endangering other people.

[Dexterdawg]

Hear hear

Well said jojo, its high time pilots in SA start thinking as a group and not only as individuals. I have a pretty good idea who our friend above is and can only say that everyone knows who can be called on by management when they need someone who will bend/break/disregard the law when it suits management. Enough said.
As far as the comment by counting teeth regarding the two pilots who were fired, sure they got what they deserved, couldnt agree more. However.. if the esteemed management got what they deserved for the blatant violations of the law goes, well then they should be sitting in the slammer right now! You cant only obey rules when it suits you fellas.
As to losing corporate clients because of the above incident, well lets see, if I had a corporate account with 1Time, I'd also cancel it! Not because of anything else other than I wouldnt want my staff subjected to unpredictable schedules due to technicals. And lets not forget the sterling job the commercial manager does (from the pub) Know of more than 1 client cancelling due to bad service then not being able to contact said manager.

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by Dexterdawg

I have a pretty good idea who our friend above is and can only say that everyone knows who can be called on by management when they need someone who will bend/break/disregard the law when it suits management. Enough said.

@Dexterdawg : What are you saying? That 1time pilots are aiding and abbetting the breaking of the law? I assume you can back this up with hard cold facts? If you cant, what you have just stated constitutes at minimum slander, more than likely libel. People are allowed to have different opions mate.. Need I remind you that the majority governing opinion in this country 15 years ago believed apartheid was right. If you disagreed with general consensus, where you, to quote boypilot, a w@nk3r?

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by jojojett

....The question of safety in aviation will NEVER be addressed adequately as long as a few (self serving) pilots continually disregard the very rules that are there for there own safety (maybe that was the reason you got a bonus that you weren't entitled to??).....

@jojojett : what are you saying? that the above mentioned person got a bonus because he was self serving and continually disregarding safety rules? What makes you think he wasnt entitled to the bonus? My interpretation from the post is that he has been with the airline 2 years and got the annual bonus just like ALL the other staff got. Everyone got bonuses except the people who had resigned before the bonus was announced (which might I add is a standard industry practice)!

If we are to judge 1time pilots by your criteria, then considering that they all got bonuses, they all disregard safety for personal gain. Hardly a fair judgement eh?

May I suggest that you check your facts before posting

[4HolerPoler]

Facts Slander Libel This is a rumor site bud and as long as someone ain't making a specific indivdual attack on another then anything goes and all opinions are welcome.

Carry on guys.

4HP

[Fliterisk]

This is a damned if you do and damned if you dont situation. CP has gone corporate and seems that it was a whole lot of reasons, not only the "issues" at 1Time... I know of alot of guys who want to do that when they get older.. airlines are not the be all and end all everyone

You are damned if you do and dont in this situation. The 1Time guys IMHO were the best bunch in SA... I cannot imagine anyone of them willingly breaking the law. The problem with the airline industry in SA, is not the VB of Nationwide, management of 1Time or anything else, its the difficulty in making a living due to the highly competitive (read it as you want) nature of the industry... ANY new airline in SA will start squeezing somewhere, and where better in 1Time than the pilots - who were initially earning relatively good salaries.... they gotta make ends meet, and unfotunately that means doing the wrong things alot of the time!!!

We should stop comparing regionals to global carriers... they are playing by different rules... I am not condoning it rather highlighting the problem...

Good luck to all the 1Time'ers... you are better than this, and will find jobs elsewhere...

[Speedometer]

Ok already. Lets have some pride! Bitcing like a bunch of ladies. Fair and well to have an opinion but an inherent weakness of this process is that we all stay anonymous. Mandate goes hand in hand with responsibility. Quoting the Iron law: If you have power, use it responsibly, or it will bite you!

I disagree with "lets stand together". Are we woosies? There are enough market mechanics that will ensure our "survival". It works for the rest of the world. If I have a problem with my management I advise them accordingly. Never have i been victimised because of that, in fact I gained their respect - that is if one's argument is reasonable/ valid / legit.

[JeanJacquesBurnel]

Sorry...

Jeeze guys! Such anger!

Those of you who are bitching about the managements blatant disregard blah, blah and are still in the company should stick to your guns, and ground the aircraft. Why must I be the one to do it? If you feel that flying these aircraft is absolutely unsafe, why do you fly them? You want ME to stop being a management lackey, (Yeah, I'm in Glens office all the time....didn't even know who Graeme Patterson was until that last pilot's meeting....) but you seem to be coming to work every day to fly the same aircraft that I do, so what are we supposed to deduct from that?

I know I'm a bit of a simpleton, and I don't always see the big picture. I'm just a simple pilot who really enjoys my job. Sorry my statements to that effect have lead to such a stampede of anger, but the thing is - I'm just blissfully happy! Sorry that pisses some of you off so much.

[imustbemad]

Dentures
Get real! I fail to see how me suggesting you sign your bar bill at least 8 hours before sign on does the pilot body of 1time a diservice. I do not an any way condone the action of the 2 pilots involved in the incident you speak of.
The pilots involved in that incident readily admitted that they had screwed up and duly left with their tails between their legs. The 2 pilots just so happened to be instrumental in trying to get the pilots at 1time unionised prior to this and it was an open fact how management felt about that. Similar related incidents occured in the past with another crew member and he was given a slap on the wrist and sent back out on the line. Granted he was eventually given his marching orders and deservedly so. So the question begs, how much did the unionisation attempt have to do with their dismissal

Dentures, If you are so concerned about the pilots and how they are viewed by all reading this post then maybe YOU should start treating them a little better because at this stage YOU are the one doing them a diservice. Its only too obvious which office your letter originates from.
Once again Dentures, and you don't have to read between the lines on this. The pilots at 1time are a fantastic bunch of guys and their management should be doing whatever they can to keep them.
Unfortunately it appears that there are divisions forming in the pilot body which is realy sad, because the only good thing left at the company is the fellow crew to work with. Fortunately the only time they have to deal with you is when they have a pilots meeting filled with empty promises. Although those meetings are few and far between and poorly attended due to the realisation that they amount to nothing and are just a waste of a day off....... which are also few and far between...

[Touch n Go]

Frankly I' m Gobsmacked

I have read this thread with interest, and I am surprised at the approach of so called professional people.

I am a frequent customer of 1time, which is my only involvement with the airline. I cannot believe what I am reading. This kind of bickering does not belong in an industry where innocent lives are at stake.

There seems to be a problem in 1time which management are not addressing. There are routes according to law which one can take to ensure the employer does not abuse the employee, and to ensure the promises made are kept. As you are all professionals, one could assume that the promises that got you all so excited were agreed to in writing. Great, there is recourse in terms of the law. Use it!
If you did not get the promises made in writing, may I suggest that you go and abuse a mirror, because professional people, contracts are made on paper to protect all parties involved. Gone are the days in this me/myself world where a hand shake is good enough.
Obvious to me is the fact that, so called professionals prefer to slander their employer on a public forum, instead of using the channels provided to them by law. Why?
Why slate someone who obviously is happy with his employer. Is it because he does not agree with your own view point?

If the airline is cutting corners, in maintaining the aircraft, and allowing aircraft to be flown in an un-airworthy condition, it is criminal activity that should be harshly punished.
If any pilot has information to that regard, and can back it up with proof, then it is the responsibility of that pilot to report the crime to the relevant authorities. Failure to do this, Mr. Professional pilot is criminal activity and puts you in the same position as the organization that is knowingly cutting corners.
Can you live with yourself if you know the aircraft are not airworthy, but choose to keep quiet and the aircraft falls out of the sky? All because you feel hard done by? Where I ask is the professionalism?
Is there real truth in the allegations being made on this thread, or are you trying to hit hard at the CEO, with whom you may have a personal vendetta? Perhaps you are an FO who was not promoted? I neither know nor care. Someone posted here that this is a rumor forum and I understand and respect that, and I understand that it is your right to post your feelings, great. What South Africans have forgotten, or maybe not have been taught, is that with rights comes responsibility, and even if you have a personal issue with a person or persons within the company, you as a professional person have the responsibility to uphold the companies image in the eyes of the public, except if the company is involved in criminal activities and putting their customers at risk. Then you have the responsibility of blowing the whistle, at whatever the personal cost.
If you have no proof but are speculating, drop it. Sort your problem you have with whomever man to man, and get on with being a professional. You have a responsibility as an employee to ensure the success of the airline that employed you.

With regard to the comment about hand flying aircraft in bad WX conditions, well you are professional people. The decision to go not go ultimately rests with the PIC. It is your responsibility to make the correct call. Frankly I would rather have a pilot upfront than a computer wiz, because when the computer goes pear shaped the pilot actually has experience in what needs to be done.

I shall be watching this thread, as well as the airline

[countingteeth]

Originally Posted by imustbemad

...Dentures..

LOL. Get real?? Who, me? Do you give all people who disagree with you stupid insultory nicknames? Have you got nothing better to say to me than to just insult me? Not very mature, I hope u r not in command at 1time... because THAT frightens me more than anything that has been said on this forum.

To clear some things up for you : I do not work for 1time. I have never worked for 1time. Apart from giving legal counsel to a 1time employee who was facing disciplinary action, I have had nothing to do with the airline other than being a customer. From a customer's perspective, I am and always have been very pleased with the level of service and professionalism I encounter when I fly 1time.

Now, if you feel 1time is unsafe and breaking the law, why don't you do something about it instead of whining anonymously on an internet forum. Why dont you leave and go to SAA or Comair? Whats wrong, they reject you too? I bet you go work everyday and smile at the bosses, while calling them silly names under your breath. Develop a back bone. Hell, PM me your contact details, I will even sponsor your legal fees for you. Put your money where you mouth is!

[imustbemad]

Apart from giving legal counsel to a 1time employee
For a legal counselor you do tend to go off half cocked

From a customer's perspective, I am and always have been very pleased with the level of service and professionalism I encounter when I fly 1time.
And so you should. That level of service and proffesionalism you recieve is from the very same people that slave away for unappreciative bosses that this forum is trying to defend. Included in that group would be same co pilots you claim don't leave because they can't.

Now, if you feel 1time is unsafe and breaking the law, why don't you do something about it

I must be suffering from short term memory loss because I don't recall ever having said anything along those lines. Please scroll back, find the post and point it out to me and I shall offer my humble apologies.

Why dont you leave and go to SAA or Comair?
There is a saying in aviation. "assumption is the mother of all ups"
You my learned legal friend are assuming that I WANT to go to above mentioned airlines. You are also assuming that I work for 1time. In fact you are assuming that I am a Pilot.
Now answer yourself this question..... would you want a legal counselor that assumes so much with so few facts to represent you, even if his services were offered free of charge???

smile at the bosses, while calling them silly names under your breath
Silly names would be way too complimentary.

Develop a backbone.
My back bone is well developed thanks for your concern. Its develped enough to admit that I erred in thinking you were part of 1times esteemed management team. Now while I don't consider anything I said to you in my previous post an insult, calling you a 1time manager certainly is an insult. For that I apologise.

Lastly, allow me to commend you on your intimate knowledge of the airline for someone whos only dealing with the company is as a customer.

oh and "have a nice day"

[last time hostee]

last time hostee

So true and really sad. The company has really changed, and for the worst! But on that great article, dont forget the nightstop bags that we were given "as a token of our appreciation for all your hard work over the last year" which you have to return when you leave!!! Good luck to AS, he's an awsome guy, its been a pleasure working with him as long as i did,
But more than that, good luck to everyone that hasn't left yet....