British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[ranger07]

Reality check

Eddy

People are very happy to be here. Happy to be heading to work and a lot of people have said "it's going to be great because the only people who are in are people who WANT to be here". Very true - and certainly been quite noticeable on the trips I've done on strike days.

Thanks for your updates, always welcome.
Now, with reference to the above, we are hearing of common opinions. Interestingly, Daily Mail columnist Peter McKay mentions of D.S's twittering and goes on '...In the past week, I have twice experienced longhaul BA cabin service.It was efficient and cheerful in both directions-despite a strike threatening their jobs whether they work or not.The many are demonised by the actions of a few'.

Now, POTENTIAL STRIKERS. Please, please, whilst the little amount of time is on your side, see BASSA for what they are. Do not be used as political pawns, this is gambit and you are blindly being lead to oblivion. D.H will still have an income after your demise. THINK THINK THINK..This is your livelihood at stake. Think about it!!

[IYCSWICSWICW]

Derek Simpson's assertions that the 'negotiations' should be held in public, serves only to reveal how poorly he has judged this dispute. He must regret his various actions (tweet) and is therefore trying to deflect crticism, IMHO. His twittering has caused deep embarassment and reeks of an amatuerish and witless approach to such a grave situation. Imagine, the airing of Commercial-in-Confidence information, for all competitors to witness?

Utter garbage Derek - and you want your 'members' to follow you?

GF

[CSDY]

New Fleet I Don't Think So

Why would BA want the strikers to return on new contracts to New Fleet. The rationale for New Fleet is a change of culture not bring in the old and poison the new. It is difficult to see a future for those that have chosen to support BASSA. Sadly I feel for my colleagues that have followed their union not knowing where it will take them. Bouncy castles, open top buses, washing lines of underpants and the rest, do you really believe that BASSA will safeguard your job in the future? Surely you must ask yourselves where will I end up post the 12th June, what have the strikes achieved.

[wiggy]

Utter garbage Derek - and you want your 'members' to follow you?

Mind you, wouldn't a "no" vote to IA be a good get out for UNITE???

Just a thought

[Eddy]

With respect, I am going to take a bit of a sabbatical from this thread for a while.

It seems my colleagues (and some former colleagues) on another forum seem unable to appreciate that other people will have differing opinions to their own. While I have never said a cross word against any of them - nor would I - I know that I've been discussed on this other website in less than pleasant terms.

I do know the names of the people who have been discussing me and the name of the person who divulged on Crew Forum who I am and that I have a trip this evening and, together with print outs of the site that have been made by a friend of mine, these details will be handled accordingly.

I maintain that I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of my colleagues on the picket lines for standing up for what they believe in, but by coming in to work all I am doing is exactly the same - standing up for what I believe in.

I am sad that the cause they are fighting for is struggling because people are running out of money and because pride seems to be getting in the way of them asking for more support down at Bedfont.

I am fed up of the rubbish being spouted by both sides of this argument and have said so in the past.

I'm sure I'll be back in a while, but for now I'm living what's being discussed on here - I don't need to discuss it on here and give people ammunition.

Best wishes to you all for just now - let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel gets closer over the next few days.

[ns68]

However, what "new happenings" would make you vote differently now? The deal on offer now is comparitively WORSE than what was on offer last year, before the strike.

If you rejected it then, what has changed to now make you prepared to accept a worse deal?

HIGHFLYER

The ballot followed by Industrial Action was about imposition and setting some straight points for our future from what I understood. One of the sticking points for me was the introduction of a New Fleet as a complete different entity.I have never being convinced by that as I see it as big threat for our future, and thought the negotiation could set a better set up to it.(routes that are going to be transferred,etc.)

The 'new happenings' are that New Fleet will be up and running pretty much instantly after these unsettled times and no further talks about that will be made and it will not be integrated with current fleets. I personally was hoping for a different outcome but I have come to realize that there won't be one- hence no reason for me to carry on. Everything else that was proposed I reckon will still leave us at a loss (MTP) but I understand that to successfully go through the so called economic downturn, cuts have to be made-

PS.Am not sure if I have explained myself properly,sometimes I read back my posts before submitting and I wonder if they are clear enough.

[HiFlyer14]

NS68

Thanks - your explanation is very clear.

You are not alone - we are all worried about New Fleet. However, the one thing that is bringing New Fleet to our doors faster than ever is BASSA and the strike action.

IF we had accepted the offer last year, and IF we had not wasted the millions that have been spent on strike action then we could, possibly, have staved off New Fleet into some date in the future. At the very least, we should have negotiated a beneficial MTP to secure our future against it. Instead, BASSA are asking for crew back on planes and that is going to implement New Fleet IMMEDIATELY. BASSA do not care about New Fleet or us and the sooner everyone realises that the better.

If you recognise that you would vote differently now, then why wait? I would urge you to return to work. Look at the PCCC website and see how genuine crew just like yourself actually feel. The only way we can solve this mess is by doing things differently in the future.

There is actually no difference between you - a striker - and me - a non-striker. We both want the same things, and the same outcome. It's how we go about it that is setting us apart. Join the PCCC and join like-minded crew who want a better future for all of us.

Eddy - I sincerely hope that is being dealt with accordingly and that you are getting the appropriate support.

[TorC]

Has "Jayne" maybe made the wrong career choice?

My life as a British Airways stewardess: Not sleeping for a week, depression, endless jet lag, stress, illness - mirror.co.uk

Doesn't sound anything at all like the BA I work for.

[mjc507]

Has "Jayne" maybe made the wrong career choice?

What a load of rubbish, from start to finish. If this is not a made-up story by The Mirror, then this crew member is once again touting how tough their job is. It's stories like these that bring out the nastyness in me and others.

(I don't doubt that joe public is rude to BA CC, though. They have every reason to be).

I've done a total of two flights as VCC and all I can say about the job is...dead simple!

[ns68]

I've done a total of two flights as VCC and all I can say about the job is...dead simple!

Here we go again..yesterday it was somebody else working as VCC that was saying how more recent than normal cabin crew she was etc.

Please..have a bit of respect for people who have been doing the job for a lot longer than you and might have gone through medical emergencies..death on board,emergency landing etc before you claim how dead simple the job is.
I am one of those crew member who has a laugh and a joke on trips and I do believe that even on the hardest day,there is always some positive to take out of this job..but comments like yours show me how little consideration you have of others..The job was dead easy because alongside you there were other crew members that am sure helped making your flight such an easy one!it is a teamwork!

[giza]

Appreciated

guys and gals,

I have spoke previously some inteaction between the crew and ground volunteers, well I was on the crew carpark gate today, and apart from one senior crew avoiding eye contact and just shoving her ID into my face (charmimng), everyone one of the cc I spoke to including VCC were happy, charming and willing to chat, thanks, it made my day worthwhile. Remember we are volunteering in our own time for no return other than the fact we are doing our bit.
Now, sad to say some of you pilots have yet to learn simply curtousy, 90% the same charming chat, but the 10% need to know that asking them to show there ID is a resonable request and should not be responed to with tuts, raised eybrow and much shaking of the head, slowing down, but not stopping and in one case, accellerating past me. (winge over)

Anyway thanks to the rest of you . By the way it was a busy day, LOTS of crew reporting on my watch.

Back to my day job tomorrow.

Backing BA

[Hotel Mode]

Reasons why BASSA are stuffed in court re new ballot

All these are official comms on why the offer prior to these strikes should not be accepted in the online ballot

A proposal has been put forward by British Airways after discussions with Tony Woodley. As we have already stated, clarity is needed on the meaning of specific points contained within it so that we are all fully aware of any implications.

Whether your union is able to recommend rejection or acceptance of this offer depends not only on these points being clarified, but also alongside these, there remain the two main issues of contention - which are staff travel and the fifty plus disciplinary cases related to the industrial action which remain unresolved.

Regrettably, we are not and we simply cannot recommend accepting this deal - and here is exactly why. There are elements where progress has been made; there is no doubt about that. It could have possibly been the beginnings of a peace.

Mr. Walsh, by his simple desire to publicly “punish” people, has missed that opportunity.

It’s no longer about the issues; it’s about ego and reputation.

Alternatively if you accept this latest offer from British Airways, you accept ALL the elements contained with in it, including “new fleet” and the permanent sanctions against members that took part in strike action.”

Let me make it clear that I am recommending that you REJECT this offer. That recommendation is fully shared by my Joint General Secretary Derek Simpson and by all your own elected representatives in BASSA and Amicus. In summary, I believe that accepting this offer is incompatible with your dignity and self-respect as employees and trade unionists, and that it cannot alas form the foundation for the better industrial relations at BA that we all want to see.

We do not make that recommendation lightly. I am aware of the sacrifices so many of you have already made in terms of loss of earnings, loss of travel concessions and strain and harassment endured as a result of standing up for your rights. Rejecting this offer may mean having to take such a stand again. I therefore want to explain the three reasons why I believe you should reject the offer.

First, the vindictive and discriminatory proposal concerning the restoration of travel concessions. As you can see from reading the letter from Mr Walsh, these concessions would be restored straight away for the relatively small number of you who use such concessions to travel to work. However, for the great majority of you, these would only be restored when BA management, without any external mediation, consider that the union and yourselves have met a long list of commitments at an unspecified point in the future.

Even then - and this is the most important point - whenever restored it would be without accumulated seniority. This means that those of you who have supported the strike could lose thirty years or more seniority, and for the rest of your working lives at BA would go to the back of the queue in the exercise of these concessions behind those who tried to break our strike. Furthermore, this sanction even discriminates between those who supported the union - some of you may lose decades of seniority, and others only a few years, depending on how long you have worked for BA. This seniority would only be restored upon retirement.

This plan therefore aims to treat loyal employees and trade unionists as permanent second-class citizens, branded for having supported the union and humiliated for having taken democratically-endorsed and fully-legal strike action. There is no way on earth this union could ever accept such a sanction.

The fact that management has been so insistent on its position on this matter, even though it is an issue of almost no financial consequence, must inevitably give rise to concerns about BA’s entire attitude and outlook to the future of industrial relations, a point to which I shall return.

The second question relates to disciplinary procedures being operated by the company. As you know over fifty colleagues have been suspended by management on charges arising from the dispute. Four, at time of writing, have been dismissed. It would not be right to refer to individual cases here. However, the charges in the great majority of cases are entirely trivial and barely worthy of a slap on the wrist, let alone the sack.

There is also clear evidence that many of the disciplinary actions arise from a covert collusion between senior management and individual pilots, cutting across all BA’s fine words about its elaborate procedures and safeguards. This evidence of victimisation and draconian punishments - in some cases directed against your representatives - render worthless the words in the offer designed to rule out such behaviour. Only rejection of the offer can say to management that it will be judged by deeds as well as words, and can express proper support for colleagues in the disciplinary firing line.

The last ones from Tony Woodley himself. BASSA/Unite have made it quite clear they are currently striking over staff travel/disciplinaries. Another day in court approaches.

[giza]

ns68

Agreed, I am not sure how some one can say dead easy after two trips, that is not fair. Most cabin crew I see onboard work hard and when I can just curl up on that longhaul flight on ST, you have to continue to look fresh and deliver customer service.

I dont actually think that that it in dispute, I think that the renumeration is though, and I find it a bit gauling that a CSD can walk away from trips without any additional responsibilities and bring home up to £3500 a month (see Tiramisu post). Many people in BA manage large teams, cannot walk away from responsibilities, work longer hour than they are paid, work from home out of hours, contactable 24 hours a day and end with less take home pay.
This has been negotiated and good luck to you, Willy has even said that he does not want to destroy your lifestyles and has offered to protect you T&C`s, I dont see what more he can do, but surely you have to admit that he can not let this carry on.

[Wirbelsturm]

Perhaps this is why BA have advised Unite not to put away all their latest paperwork?

It would seem that the rhetoric from the Unite leaders might well be their undoing! (Again!)

Does this mean we get to see Lizanne (the really, really quiet one who hasn't been seen near Bedfont) in Court again? Oh, go on, please?

[Human Factor]

It seems my colleagues (and some former colleagues) on another forum seem unable to appreciate that other people will have differing opinions to their own. While I have never said a cross word against any of them - nor would I - I know that I've been discussed on this other website in less than pleasant terms.

Thanks for providing a rational alternative voice. Nil illegitimi desperandum carborundum (or somthing like that). Hope you're back soon.

[Juan Odeboyse]

Does this mean we get to see Lizanne (the really, really quiet one who hasn't been seen near Bedfont) in Court again? Oh, go on, please?

Wirblestrum why do you write such garbage. Lizanne is regularly at BFC, on my last visit Friday she was there all afternoon.

Why not pop in yourself, I'm sure she'd like to have a chat with you!

[Caribbean Boy]

"Jayne"

TorC said:

My life as a British Airways stewardess: Not sleeping for a week, depression, endless jet lag, stress, illness - mirror.co.uk

Doesn't sound anything at all like the BA I work for.

I think you have to take this one with a pinch of salt:

Ba has slashed the number of crew on many flights and Jayne says they are now doing twice the work for less pay - and it's putting the passengers' safety at risk.

[Wirbelsturm]

JO, I'm sure she would but, to be honest, I don't think we would quite see eye to eye and absolutely nothing she has to say remotely interests me. Also I have a job to get on with.

Enjoy your cakes.

[License to Fly]

Originally Posted by Pornpants1

WW is not wanting to talk because he does not have to!

He also has an airline to run - as strange at it maybe to Unite/BASSA, the company does not/will not run around them

[vertigowerty]

Poor little Jayne!!!

I am sure she will be happy doing mixed flying on the new fleet...so she will not suffer from jet lag...

I have done long haul with a few airlines, and yes, it was tiring and in a company I was flying, we were not entitled to a break, unless a flight was longer than 14 hours..and we coped...knackered but we coped...

as ar as the prozacs, I am sure people take them not because of the crew removal...I am sure the pur that got removed from the upper deck, was not a reason for crew to get depressed...or kill themselves...

so lets get serious and tackle the issues that need to be tackled... if unite carries on like that and ww doesn't get rid of them, then maybe us who back ba and keep the flag flying, might end up using Prozac...