British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Welcome Back Juan
Juan, hopefully we can now get answers to all the questions posed, or answers given, to you in the past.
Mealchucker (message 3939) asked to proove your statement that BA was bullying BASSA members - what proof do you have?
Your message 3870 sated what proof did anyone have that you striking was illegal?
Numerous answers (messages 3871-3874 advised that as you stated you were not BASSA and claimed to be BA CC, then your action had to be illegal/breach of contract.
Chigley (message 3921) stated you must be on another planet as his experience was the opposite of yours.
I have only looked back a few days but prior to that, so many "facts" of yours were wrong, I am purely wondering why you seem to throw in the grenade then runaway from the answers until you can get another to lob in. If you knew anything about the operating economics of airlines, you'd realise this is not being done for Mr Walsh's ego - it is out of necessity. He could get a job at almost any airline if he wanted to at the same deal or probably better - unlike the BASSA cabin crew who will never get the same level of reward for the job they currently do at any other airline.
I bear no malice towards BASSA members or anyone else withdrawing their labour - I just think they are misguided.
MF
Mealchucker (message 3939) asked to proove your statement that BA was bullying BASSA members - what proof do you have?
Your message 3870 sated what proof did anyone have that you striking was illegal?
Numerous answers (messages 3871-3874 advised that as you stated you were not BASSA and claimed to be BA CC, then your action had to be illegal/breach of contract.
Chigley (message 3921) stated you must be on another planet as his experience was the opposite of yours.
I have only looked back a few days but prior to that, so many "facts" of yours were wrong, I am purely wondering why you seem to throw in the grenade then runaway from the answers until you can get another to lob in. If you knew anything about the operating economics of airlines, you'd realise this is not being done for Mr Walsh's ego - it is out of necessity. He could get a job at almost any airline if he wanted to at the same deal or probably better - unlike the BASSA cabin crew who will never get the same level of reward for the job they currently do at any other airline.
I bear no malice towards BASSA members or anyone else withdrawing their labour - I just think they are misguided.
MF
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Drugged up and flying
Seems as though this person needs to declare themselves as unfit to operate ... and then realise that the job is not for them! 
Get real!
Get real!
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Posted by Giza
I dont actually think that that it in dispute, I think that the renumeration is though, and I find it a bit gauling that a CSD can walk away from trips without any additional responsibilities and bring home up to £3500 a month (see Tiramisu post). Many people in BA manage large teams, cannot walk away from responsibilities, work longer hour than they are paid, work from home out of hours, contactable 24 hours a day and end with less take home pay.
I dont actually think that that it in dispute, I think that the renumeration is though, and I find it a bit gauling that a CSD can walk away from trips without any additional responsibilities and bring home up to £3500 a month (see Tiramisu post). Many people in BA manage large teams, cannot walk away from responsibilities, work longer hour than they are paid, work from home out of hours, contactable 24 hours a day and end with less take home pay.
If I may correct you please, I quoted my net salary as being approximately between £3100 and £3400. I've rarely earned the £3500 you quote and the £3400 were exceptional months on three occasions only.
With the new MTP I will be more inclined to see my salary drop to around £3000 having done my calculations. Having said that, it still is a good salary. Please don't underestimate what we do.
As a CSD, I often bring work home, things like crew recognition which I we can't do on flights as they have to be completed online. Whilst I admit my job is easy because I have been doing it for 26 years, I have earned my money and there are days we work our socks off and deserve every penny.
It is unfair to say you find it galling that we can walk away from trips without any additional responsibilities. I'm sitting at home with a pile of work and reports I have to do in my own personal time.
There is no way I would make a remark like yours about anyone in any other department in BA.
With respect, the CSDs on Worldwide work hard especially now, to earn their salaries too.
Please come and do a Moscow with me on 767 and experience the job yourself, I too manage teams, perhaps not in the way that you do, but sometimes it's on short flights with very high business loads with passengers who have high expectations. In the old days I often had a team of 10 on a 767. As you rightly said our salaries are what BA chose to pay us, we didn't force BA to pay us the salaries we earn.
It is so easy to get carried away on this forum and turn against crew, especially the moderate ones who care about the company and accept change.
It's a pity that you have used what I posted against me, perhaps I shouldn't have been so candid, a lesson learnt.
I'm BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
Vertigowerty,
Shame I missed you today. You missed out on the Beer last night and the large box of Krispy Kremes I was carrying around in CRC in between flights.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 31st May 2010 at 22:07. Reason: Spelling
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I have just finished reading about the last hundred pages of this forum. Apart from the gloaters, there seems to be a debate going on that is less extreme than on the other two CC forums. I am a BASSA member that voted against the strike and have been to work normally during the strike. I am 50% and would have been hit hard by every one of the strikes, the way pay is deducted would have meant that I was without pay for almost four months and there are three of us that live on my wage, to top that off my husband is from america and without staff travel it would be a long time until we saw the inlaws again. Without pay for months I wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage let alone buy a full fare ticket!
I think that it is really sad that we have ended up in this mess. I cant believe the way our once harmonious crew community has turned against each other. I always have to watch my back, I never know if the crew working in my galley will be a scab or a sucker (striker), I'm scared to talk about much more than the weather for fear of upsetting somebody. I gave the pilots some club food a couple of weeks ago and most of the crew didn't speak to me for the next 3 sectors on my back to back. the name calling, threats, and demands for revenge have made me wonder if the job is still worth doing. When I see my colleagues getting all worked up the only thing I feel for them is pity. I'm sorry that they have been sucked in by all the propaganda from BASSA. I wish that the reps had actually represented us last year and got a deal that we could have lived with, it only seems to have gotten worse at every turn since then. The sad truth is that we crew have only ever been pawns in a game, all about settling old scores and getting revenge for past fights and squabbles. Some of my dearest friends have fallen for all of this and are now wondering why they let themselves be fooled. I was on standby today and wasn't used. The CRC was like any other day and the departures area in the terminal was busy. Reading the BASSA forum they would have you believe that the terminal and CRC was like a ghost town and that the only place that pulled a crowd was the football club. In fact the opposite was true. As much as the militant ones would scratch up my car or shun me on a night stop I forgive them and hope that one day they will be able to forgive me as well as themselves for being fooled. Judging by the number of people turning up for work the reality is starting to dawn on all of us. They are asking on the other forum how to tell a XXXXer in the briefing as if there will be loads of them when the sad truth is that there might be 2 or 3 at most.
It's such a shame that the union didn't get a deal for us last year because as it turns out none of this has been worth it. I know that probably people will come back to me on here and tell me to leave the union and I probably will but I just hope that one day we can all get back to being the way we once were but I dont think there is much chance of that.
I think that it is really sad that we have ended up in this mess. I cant believe the way our once harmonious crew community has turned against each other. I always have to watch my back, I never know if the crew working in my galley will be a scab or a sucker (striker), I'm scared to talk about much more than the weather for fear of upsetting somebody. I gave the pilots some club food a couple of weeks ago and most of the crew didn't speak to me for the next 3 sectors on my back to back. the name calling, threats, and demands for revenge have made me wonder if the job is still worth doing. When I see my colleagues getting all worked up the only thing I feel for them is pity. I'm sorry that they have been sucked in by all the propaganda from BASSA. I wish that the reps had actually represented us last year and got a deal that we could have lived with, it only seems to have gotten worse at every turn since then. The sad truth is that we crew have only ever been pawns in a game, all about settling old scores and getting revenge for past fights and squabbles. Some of my dearest friends have fallen for all of this and are now wondering why they let themselves be fooled. I was on standby today and wasn't used. The CRC was like any other day and the departures area in the terminal was busy. Reading the BASSA forum they would have you believe that the terminal and CRC was like a ghost town and that the only place that pulled a crowd was the football club. In fact the opposite was true. As much as the militant ones would scratch up my car or shun me on a night stop I forgive them and hope that one day they will be able to forgive me as well as themselves for being fooled. Judging by the number of people turning up for work the reality is starting to dawn on all of us. They are asking on the other forum how to tell a XXXXer in the briefing as if there will be loads of them when the sad truth is that there might be 2 or 3 at most.
It's such a shame that the union didn't get a deal for us last year because as it turns out none of this has been worth it. I know that probably people will come back to me on here and tell me to leave the union and I probably will but I just hope that one day we can all get back to being the way we once were but I dont think there is much chance of that.
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BASSA Update
Todays riveting instalament:
According to Duncan only 2635 people have claimed strike pay so far. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the strike.
Day 14 in the BBB House
It was a typical, cold and windy British bank holiday Monday for most of the day, and the morning session tested the resilience of our picket lines to the full.
It warmed up a little later in the day and with it, the crowds increased - the children enjoyed the pony rides and the open top bus made a welcome return, along with the solidarity samosas!
Despite the weather, the threats, the media smear campaign (inc the BBC) and the squandering of millions to beat us, we are still here!
Lots and lots of new faces are arriving each day and, we must stress that everybody is welcome, it does not matter if you have not been on strike before, or have even been to work during previous strike days, you are still very welcome to join us, so come along, don’t just be a staff number or a PR statistic, turn up to BFC and make a difference, it’s not too late.
This second phase of the dispute was always going to be the most critical and the one in which we need your help to get through; this is the point where, if we don’t keep your support and carry on, our dispute will not last the distance. If we weaken we will lose, there will be no more negotiation, he will be able to continue to impose any future changes that are required.
It’s make or break time.
Mr. Walsh knows this too, that’s why he declined the offer of further talks this week; he wants to see if he can starve people back to work. It would seem that he is still determined to test your resolve and prove his point, regardless of the impact on our airline. Passengers simply aren’t flying with us and what service they are getting is very reduced - and yet elements of the media still seem to think this is a sensible way to run an airline.
Tomorrow will more than likely be cold and rainy, not a great day to be on a picket line, but that is exactly when we are going to need you the most.
Our dispute is the longest and most significant ever taken by any group of staff in the entire history of British Airways. There is good reason for that; no previous CEO has ever embarked on such a ruthless and determined attempt to crush his own workforce.
One way or another, our dispute will be written into the history books; it is a defining moment and people know it. Whatever the outcome, this will end up being the last great dispute between an aggressive confrontational management style and a proudly resolute and determined workforce.
The outcome will set the tone of what it’s like to work for British Airways forever.
It was a typical, cold and windy British bank holiday Monday for most of the day, and the morning session tested the resilience of our picket lines to the full.
It warmed up a little later in the day and with it, the crowds increased - the children enjoyed the pony rides and the open top bus made a welcome return, along with the solidarity samosas!
Despite the weather, the threats, the media smear campaign (inc the BBC) and the squandering of millions to beat us, we are still here!
Lots and lots of new faces are arriving each day and, we must stress that everybody is welcome, it does not matter if you have not been on strike before, or have even been to work during previous strike days, you are still very welcome to join us, so come along, don’t just be a staff number or a PR statistic, turn up to BFC and make a difference, it’s not too late.
This second phase of the dispute was always going to be the most critical and the one in which we need your help to get through; this is the point where, if we don’t keep your support and carry on, our dispute will not last the distance. If we weaken we will lose, there will be no more negotiation, he will be able to continue to impose any future changes that are required.
It’s make or break time.
Mr. Walsh knows this too, that’s why he declined the offer of further talks this week; he wants to see if he can starve people back to work. It would seem that he is still determined to test your resolve and prove his point, regardless of the impact on our airline. Passengers simply aren’t flying with us and what service they are getting is very reduced - and yet elements of the media still seem to think this is a sensible way to run an airline.
Tomorrow will more than likely be cold and rainy, not a great day to be on a picket line, but that is exactly when we are going to need you the most.
Our dispute is the longest and most significant ever taken by any group of staff in the entire history of British Airways. There is good reason for that; no previous CEO has ever embarked on such a ruthless and determined attempt to crush his own workforce.
One way or another, our dispute will be written into the history books; it is a defining moment and people know it. Whatever the outcome, this will end up being the last great dispute between an aggressive confrontational management style and a proudly resolute and determined workforce.
The outcome will set the tone of what it’s like to work for British Airways forever.
Last edited by Hand Solo; 31st May 2010 at 22:36.
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i cant believe my ears,,,,well I can actually as UNITE is involved
They are planning to reballot this week again to furthur the strikes through the summer
Go on UNITE dream something up. or even better ballot over the loss of staff travel and get yourself a fast track pass to the high court
you could do with loosing another court case, and loosing your members a few more thousand pounds, staff travel and respect....................
totally useless excuse for a union
Shame on you
They are planning to reballot this week again to furthur the strikes through the summer
SUICIDE UNITE, TOTAL SUICIDE
i wonder what they will ballot over this timeGo on UNITE dream something up. or even better ballot over the loss of staff travel and get yourself a fast track pass to the high court
you could do with loosing another court case, and loosing your members a few more thousand pounds, staff travel and respect....................
totally useless excuse for a union
Shame on you
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Giza
Although Tiramisu has already taken you to task I would like to tell you of a recent LCA flight on the 767. Within minutes of the wheels leaving the runway I had a phone call from the aft of the a/c to say that a large ceiling panel had fallen off and hit the heads of the last 8 rows of customers on the JK side and that a fight had broken out on the AB side. While running down the a/c to break up the fight and sort out the concussed and very shocked customers, a man in 28d stopped me to say that he was a diabetic and needed to eat NOW because he had taken his insulin sometime before not expecting a 45 minute wait for the runway. Stern talking to the aggressor, upgrade for the victim and wife, TLC for the 16 injured parties and collection of personal details for service recovery and finally, a quick glass of juice and a bread roll for 28d before he keeled over.
After I had sorted all that lot, I still had to organise food for 55 club passengers, IFE for all (apologising to 20+ customers who had no sound) and manage a team of 7 crew. It may seem that our job is easy but believe me, there are days when we earn every penny and more. The report writing from that sector was done in my own time.
Like Tiramisu, I would be happy to have you job shadow me for a day so you can see what we really do.
After I had sorted all that lot, I still had to organise food for 55 club passengers, IFE for all (apologising to 20+ customers who had no sound) and manage a team of 7 crew. It may seem that our job is easy but believe me, there are days when we earn every penny and more. The report writing from that sector was done in my own time.
Like Tiramisu, I would be happy to have you job shadow me for a day so you can see what we really do.
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money money money
Interesting comments about earnings on recent posts.
Your Salaries are your worth to the employer. If you leave BA and earn the same pay and conditions elsewhere within 5 years then you can defend what you earn. I suspect that is the case for the tech guys. Most 10 year plus cabin crew are not in that position. BA can fill our boots with crew on significantly less money. The cabin crew role is a young persons job but the diversity and equal opportunities ethos of BA gives us an extended play. If you are over 35 and doing this job on old or new contract we can count ourselves very lucky.(Then again I live in the hood.) This is not directed at the recent postees but to many of us believe BA owes us and do not except that the customer is king. Too many crew bleat about 20 years service and the reality is 2 years and the 3rd 18 times. BA is a great compny now as it was when I joined. We can embrace change in the way that life changes around us or simply we can get stuck, like those on the picket lines today.
Your Salaries are your worth to the employer. If you leave BA and earn the same pay and conditions elsewhere within 5 years then you can defend what you earn. I suspect that is the case for the tech guys. Most 10 year plus cabin crew are not in that position. BA can fill our boots with crew on significantly less money. The cabin crew role is a young persons job but the diversity and equal opportunities ethos of BA gives us an extended play. If you are over 35 and doing this job on old or new contract we can count ourselves very lucky.(Then again I live in the hood.) This is not directed at the recent postees but to many of us believe BA owes us and do not except that the customer is king. Too many crew bleat about 20 years service and the reality is 2 years and the 3rd 18 times. BA is a great compny now as it was when I joined. We can embrace change in the way that life changes around us or simply we can get stuck, like those on the picket lines today.
Last edited by Chesh01; 31st May 2010 at 23:47. Reason: grammer correction
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Well said, Chesh01.
The customer is and will always remain king, it is he who after all pays our wages. That is not what's is in dispute here and neither is the amount we earn.
It is Giza's remark that I found a little unreasonable and now Fargoo's post too.
That is the problem here, where reasonable and moderate posters are misunderstood without reading their previous posts. Whilst we(the moderate cabin crew) acknowledge the fact that none of us are indispensable for a minute and we are well paid, it's unfair to underestimate what we do. Occasionally it's good to give credit where it's due, our customers who are king do it and so does our CEO Willie Walsh, not that I thrive on it.
I'm BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
The customer is and will always remain king, it is he who after all pays our wages. That is not what's is in dispute here and neither is the amount we earn.
It is Giza's remark that I found a little unreasonable and now Fargoo's post too.
That is the problem here, where reasonable and moderate posters are misunderstood without reading their previous posts. Whilst we(the moderate cabin crew) acknowledge the fact that none of us are indispensable for a minute and we are well paid, it's unfair to underestimate what we do. Occasionally it's good to give credit where it's due, our customers who are king do it and so does our CEO Willie Walsh, not that I thrive on it.
I'm BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
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They are also saying on the BASSA forum that there are no BA flights in the air. True the site that they say to look at for some reason doesn't say that there are many BA flights flying at the moment but if you look at this one it tells a different story. On transatlantic routes at this very moment BA have 34 flights airborne, Lufthansa have 32, Air France have 25, and KLM have 15. Why do people believe the lies?
FlightAware > Live British Airways Flight Status
FlightAware > Live British Airways Flight Status
The cabin crew role is a young persons job
Why?
So I'm to assume that once one has reached their employer mandated "use by date" there're required to leave.
Is this 1960 or 2010 ?
How very regressive........
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OOPS!
How very regressive........
When I say "young persons role" I meant that most people who are cabin crew due to pay, employment policy and percieved customer expectation tend to be youthful. I speak generally about UK airlines.
Anyone can do our job and within BA there are plenty of us on the wrong side of our forties who are enthsiastic about customer service alongside youngsters who cannot be bothered. Only BA creates opportunities for mature crew to continue or start working when other airlines have us off. BA's ethos and work practices for mature crew are not the policy of other airlines and whilst the union has endorsed them they have never championed them. All the more reason to back BA during these times.
Only BA creates opportunities for mature crew to continue or start working when other airlines have us off. BA's ethos and work practices for mature crew are not the policy of other airlines and whilst the union has endorsed them they have never championed them. All the more reason to back BA during these times.
Riiiight.....................
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To follow on from the report from BFC, can I add my experiences yesterday.
I was a support driver for the day down at LGW on one of my days off. I was teemed up with an office worker from Waterside also on a day off. Also there were 3 engineers from BAMC who had driven down from Cardiff to be crew support. I handed over the car keys to an engineer from LHR who had left Unite in protest over the slur on him and his colleagues over poor maintenance. It was a very quiet day LGW ops were completely normal.
Something the strikers seem not to have asked themselves is why so many different branches of the company are acting like this? Are we all really management stooges?
BTW I got my P60 on Saturday and am 5% down on last year despite having moved up a 2.5% pay point.
I was a support driver for the day down at LGW on one of my days off. I was teemed up with an office worker from Waterside also on a day off. Also there were 3 engineers from BAMC who had driven down from Cardiff to be crew support. I handed over the car keys to an engineer from LHR who had left Unite in protest over the slur on him and his colleagues over poor maintenance. It was a very quiet day LGW ops were completely normal.
Something the strikers seem not to have asked themselves is why so many different branches of the company are acting like this? Are we all really management stooges?
BTW I got my P60 on Saturday and am 5% down on last year despite having moved up a 2.5% pay point.
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@Standard Unit -I believe it is. During the previous permanent crew recruitment campaign, there were many 'mature' recruits. Can you honestly tell me that you think that would happen at Virgin?
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Roger Coppid
Yes I am sure other airlines have similar problems - it's how you recover from it that makes the difference! Will they all fly with us again or not? How many times do you meet someone who tells you they will never fly with xyz again? On the day, it's the way the SCCM deals with the problem that brings 'em back. Every year I can evidence that I have saved BA at least the cost of my salary and therefore, I am worth it.
Sweeping generalisation coming now. As regards the debate of mature crew versus youth, my personal experience as a SCCM and as a 'new recruit trainer' is that maturity is easier to manage! Alot of the problems we have around attendance and attitude are as a result of immaturity which tends to resolve with age. (Not many 40 year olds are out clubbing the night before an early report and phoning in sick at 2am from outside the kebab shop!) Somehow, as you get older it is easier to listen to a passenger 'having a go' at you and not take it personally. That said, there are good and bad in both age groups; good customer service is a state of mind not an age thing.
malcomf - does it help if I tell you my P60 is just under 20% less than the previous year and I also gained an increment.
Yes I am sure other airlines have similar problems - it's how you recover from it that makes the difference! Will they all fly with us again or not? How many times do you meet someone who tells you they will never fly with xyz again? On the day, it's the way the SCCM deals with the problem that brings 'em back. Every year I can evidence that I have saved BA at least the cost of my salary and therefore, I am worth it.
Sweeping generalisation coming now. As regards the debate of mature crew versus youth, my personal experience as a SCCM and as a 'new recruit trainer' is that maturity is easier to manage! Alot of the problems we have around attendance and attitude are as a result of immaturity which tends to resolve with age. (Not many 40 year olds are out clubbing the night before an early report and phoning in sick at 2am from outside the kebab shop!) Somehow, as you get older it is easier to listen to a passenger 'having a go' at you and not take it personally. That said, there are good and bad in both age groups; good customer service is a state of mind not an age thing.
malcomf - does it help if I tell you my P60 is just under 20% less than the previous year and I also gained an increment.
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malcomf - does it help if I tell you my P60 is just under 20% less than the previous year and I also gained an increment.
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My life as a British Airways stewardess: Not sleeping for a week, depression, endless jet lag, stress, illness - mirror.co.uk
Doesn't sound anything at all like the BA I work for.
Doesn't sound anything at all like the BA I work for.
Who is the principle funder of Labour.. Step forward UNITE !
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It’s make or break time.
Mr. Walsh knows this too, that’s why he declined the offer of further talks this week
Mr. Walsh knows this too, that’s why he declined the offer of further talks this week
I think this man DH the bassa sec' is, without care for members future, misguiding the hard core "Bassaites" for his own personal revenge following his sacking from BA.
On this note Im sure all the disaplinaries will follow the agreed BA procedures with the union supporting their members all the way through
So, if, as we are told by unite their members are on unreasonable charges from BA these cases against them will be dropped and a Unite victory will be hailed, why the big fuss over dropping all cases. Other than the real cases are not what Unite are saying....
There are still alot of direction changes in the unite/bassa ship im not sure who is driving it !!!, but what i do believe is that, it is on its last journey to nowhere. I'm proud to be backing BA for mine and my fellow workers future ..
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malcolmf wrote:
Something the strikers seem not to have asked themselves is why so many different branches of the company are acting like this? Are we all really management stooges?