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BA pilots vote to strike

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BA pilots vote to strike

Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:13
  #421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
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Originally Posted by FlipFlapFlop View Post
I am not at BA, I am a lucky one. I am at easy where my salary and annual bonus is far in excess of my equivalent rank and experience colleagues and friends at BA.
To be fair, when you die in your late 40s due to fatigue and stress related causes, I’m not sure you’ll be regarded as a “lucky one”. Your rosters are horrific.

At least it makes you feel important though.

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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:49
  #422 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post


To be fair, when you die in your late 40s due to fatigue and stress related causes, I’m not sure you’ll be regarded as a “lucky one”. Your rosters are horrific.

At least it makes you feel important though.

Somewhat harsh. You must have misunderstood my motive. I was not gloating nor trying to make myself feel important. I would be at BA if I had not transferred seats at easy whilst in the BA pool. My point was aimed directly at the nice guy slagging off pilots, and in particular BA pilots, by making the point that BA pilots are paid significantly less than easy pilots for the same job on the same aircraft. And yes, my roster is awful but sh BA is not any better.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:54
  #423 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post


To be fair, when you die in your late 40s due to fatigue and stress related causes, I’m not sure you’ll be regarded as a “lucky one”. Your rosters are horrific.

At least it makes you feel important though.

But I do agree it does read a bit off especially if you delete the second sentence of my original comment !
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 17:38
  #424 (permalink)  
 
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At some point pilots need a make a stand at the poor terms and conditions on offer in the UK generally. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening as the industry is too fragmented, and pilots identify with their aircraft or airline more than a fellow pilot working elsewhere. You don't see that with Doctors , for example.
In the BA/IAG case, the organisation has shown itself to be unwilling to negotiate further. It is pointless waiting any longer. A one month strike would bring things to a head, and make loss of pay/salary deductions easy to calculate. Essentially, it is only the same as 1 months unpaid leave, something that is increasingly difficult to get in BA.
I would be more than happy to continue striking until the end of the mandate, before balloting to extend it further.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 22:03
  #425 (permalink)  
 
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Give me EZY fixed pattern over the horrific rosters I have seen at BA SH any day. I rarely do a 4 sector day these days, my busiest month has been 83 hours. Average monthly hours is around 70 this summer and still full-time. Maybe I’m just lucky. First officers are getting it a bit harder mind.

Stick together and good luck.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 15:34
  #426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
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There’s no need to turn it into an EZY vs BA thread, it’s been done to death. One suits some and one suits others. Solidarity between all of us would go a long way to at least slowing the rot in this industry.

I personally can’t really afford to strike, but I definitely can’t afford not to.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 15:58
  #427 (permalink)  
 
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The dates 8th, 9th and 10th September all have something in common.

8th September 2017 the Thomas Cook pilots were on strike.

9th and 10th September 2019 the British Airways pilots were on strike.

These are the only dates that British pilots have been on strike since 1974.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 19:57
  #428 (permalink)  
 
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To my mind it's pretty clear. If you absolutely want long haul, join BA (or Virgin). If you can cope without it, join EZY. I've worked at both companies and was considerably happier at the latter, and was treated considerably better.

BA will continue to push around and abuse its crew until recruitment becomes impossible - it's clear that's just how WW and AC have decided to operate. Until then, why make things better? These people have no conception of what working in the toxic company they've created is like. You can almost picture them at an expensive restaurant somewhere discussing the next barrage of cuts, productivity hikes, or strategies to break our resolve - just as their bottle of desert wine and 4 figure bill arrives. Meanwhile people line up to join BA on nothing but the industry rumour that it's still the best place to be. I fell for it too.

I was unlucky, I joined BA before I had a chance to move seats at EZY. I will however wait it out and move back as soon as I can.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 23:59
  #429 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FACoff
Meanwhile people line up to join BA on nothing but the industry rumour that it's still the best place to be. I fell for it too.
People line up to join BA because they believe flying a bigger chunk of metal or putting a picture of their hat and British Airways name badge on their Instagram page named “xxxx_the_pilot” or “pilotxxxx” is more important than T&Cs and pay.

And this is why things will never improve. There will always be a steady stream of personality vacuums willing to join BA simply for the opportunity to boost their self-importance and get the validation they never had in the real world, at the expense of those who have a life outside of social media. The management know this.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 07:11
  #430 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
At some point pilots need a make a stand at the poor terms and conditions on offer in the UK generally. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening as the industry is too fragmented, and pilots identify with their aircraft or airline more than a fellow pilot working elsewhere. You don't see that with Doctors , for example.
In the BA/IAG case, the organisation has shown itself to be unwilling to negotiate further. It is pointless waiting any longer. A one month strike would bring things to a head, and make loss of pay/salary deductions easy to calculate. Essentially, it is only the same as 1 months unpaid leave, something that is increasingly difficult to get in BA.
I would be more than happy to continue striking until the end of the mandate, before balloting to extend it further.
I bet Thomas Cook Nigel's would love their poor T+C's currently....
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 07:48
  #431 (permalink)  
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Vokes55

Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post


People line up to join BA because they believe flying a bigger chunk of metal or putting a picture of their hat and British Airways name badge on their Instagram page named “xxxx_the_pilot” or “pilotxxxx” is more important than T&Cs and pay.

And this is why things will never improve. There will always be a steady stream of personality vacuums willing to join BA simply for the opportunity to boost their self-importance and get the validation they never had in the real world, at the expense of those who have a life outside of social media. The management know this.
A bit harsh. I used to work for BEA then BA and also did a stint in BA Airtours. We always got some stick in the holiday destinations from the other charter guys, usually good natured. There is obviously a lot going on in the industry that I am not party to. But what seems clear is that management is determined to change the status of pilots "into glorified busdrivers". A backward step for one will eventually affect all. Best of luck to you all, you really need to support each other. By the way I have done some time as a BALPA rep and sat across the table from BA management. They are not interested in the long term future of the company. We were.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 02:07
  #432 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 77 View Post
A bit harsh. I used to work for BEA then BA and also did a stint in BA Airtours. We always got some stick in the holiday destinations from the other charter guys, usually good natured. There is obviously a lot going on in the industry that I am not party to. But what seems clear is that management is determined to change the status of pilots "into glorified busdrivers". A backward step for one will eventually affect all. Best of luck to you all, you really need to support each other. By the way I have done some time as a BALPA rep and sat across the table from BA management. They are not interested in the long term future of the company. We were.

Good point made, many pilots in the industry are excluded from any group representation, a cynical move by management to change the status and package, as you say. I have been reading some articles about the recent BA strike and see many people are very critical of the pilots many calling them greedy, selfish, etc and applauding management. Pilots worldwide really do need to stand up and start selling the profession properly or we are doomed. When unions choose to take industrial, I reckon they should engage in PR companies to sell their image to the public, There is a definite campaign afoot to reduce the pilot packages (execs get massive bonusses for this!), time the pilot group started fighting back.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 08:23
  #433 (permalink)  
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Image

It is not just in the airline business that executives are abusing the workforce for their own gain.
However I feel that the image of the airline pilot matters. I once threatened to offload a copilot if he came to work again without his hat. He made the point that the hat did not affect his ability. I responded that if he looked like a busdriver then the company would be delighted to pay him accordingly.. These days I am sad to see pilots in the terminal no hats, jackets undone, rucksacks over their back etc. Don't dumb it down, some of the old fashioned ways can still have a use. Just a thought. Maybe I'm just an old fart.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 09:50
  #434 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 77 View Post
Maybe I'm just an old fart.
If you were to offload a colleague for not bringing a hat, you would probably (in this age of instant messaging) find that would be the last time someone wore a hat when they were rostered with you.

Hats make you look like a security guard. So each to their own, old fart.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 09:56
  #435 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post


If you were to offload a colleague for not bringing a hat, you would probably (in this age of instant messaging) find that would be the last time someone wore a hat when they were rostered with you.

Hats make you look like a security guard. So each to their own, old fart.
sorry, uniform policy is in black and white. Perhaps those entrusted with command in a leadership role shouldn’t embarrass their first officers by announcing “sorry, I don’t do hats”. Last time it happened, made the whole CRM building part difficult when I told them, well I do. Not entirely sure why spending 10 mins from report to the aircraft in jacket and hat so difficult.

And im far from an old fart.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 11:08
  #436 (permalink)  
 
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The longer this goes on, the more time management has to implement plan B.

A secondary workforce sourced and ready to step in temporarily. If you don’t think they are already planning this, you are naive - it’s their ultimate wet dream.

They will use this just as with CC to forever screw over the Pilots and force a new pay scale. It’ll be worth the short term pain for them, and easily justified.

You need to act, and act now.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 11:12
  #437 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xulu View Post
The longer this goes on, the more time management has to implement plan B.

A secondary workforce sourced and ready to step in temporarily. If you don’t think they are already planning this, you are naive - it’s their ultimate wet dream.

They will use this just as with CC to forever screw over the Pilots and force a new pay scale. It’ll be worth the short term pain for them, and easily justified.

You need to act, and act now.
not entirely sure 0.94*4400 pilots will be that easy to find.


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Old 29th Sep 2019, 12:16
  #438 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post


If you were to offload a colleague for not bringing a hat, you would probably (in this age of instant messaging) find that would be the last time someone wore a hat when they were rostered with you.

Hats make you look like a security guard. So each to their own, old fart.
Yes I know that many airlines do not even issue a hat these days. The message was that standards are important in in aviation and in my opinion looking the part (keeping the mystery) is just as important. Scruffy individuals in the terminal will not do any of you any good. The public are all too ready to call pilots greedy, overpaid, lazy etc. Aeroplanes are totally automated and you do nothing. Just sit there drinking coffee. As I said I feel you should look your best in the terminal, working or positioning. You may think times have changed but the public will still judge you.
"Love" from an old fart!!
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 14:46
  #439 (permalink)  
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Old Hat

I know it's "old hat" but image can be important. Some professions need to look "professional". I always used to take my uniform off when commuting. I preferred to relax and be anonymous. Anyway we digress, the important thing is the dispute and a way forward for BA pilots and hopefully a positive knock-on effect for all.
Regards
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 18:28
  #440 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post


From a BA pilot relative of mine it appears Mr Walsh and Mr Cruz agenda is to crush BALPA as they did Unite/ CC which led to the introduction of the low cost Mixed Fleet.
Can someone tell me why, in gods name, Walsh and Cruz would want to crush BALPA, . whose members have been pivotal in helping BA generate records profits of 2 b at a time when other airlines are failing.

Just what do they wish to achieve, to me, if it is the case, it seems a really crass pursuit ?

The pilots are not miners, British Leyland workers or Australian pilots, all of whom made unreasonable demands from failing companies, financially unable to meet those demands if they were to survive.

If they really do want to crush BALP. and its members I believe Cruz and Walsh are on for a very sharp shock.
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