BA pilots vote to strike
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 314
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From: Button Moon
[QUOTE]Planes also don't fly without cabin crew[QUOTE]
Yes they do. Been on a cargo aircraft lately?
[QUOTE]Pilots are two a penny[QUOTE]
UK Population almost 70,000,000. UK ATPL Holders 14,000. By contrast, for the same population the UK has almost 300,000 doctors.....would you call that group of fantastic professionals "Two a penny"? I think not. Grow up.
[QUOTE]as well as many thinking they are God's gift to aviation.[QUOTE]
Have you met "many" of the 13,000 UK ATPL holders or even "many" of the 4500 of them at BA? I doubt it. But hey, why bother with facts when you can cast aspersions with that big broad brush of yours based on that massive chip on your shoulder.
Once again, and as said above. Don't feed the Journo Trolls folks, they're only after a headline.
Yes they do. Been on a cargo aircraft lately?
[QUOTE]Pilots are two a penny[QUOTE]
UK Population almost 70,000,000. UK ATPL Holders 14,000. By contrast, for the same population the UK has almost 300,000 doctors.....would you call that group of fantastic professionals "Two a penny"? I think not. Grow up.
[QUOTE]as well as many thinking they are God's gift to aviation.[QUOTE]
Have you met "many" of the 13,000 UK ATPL holders or even "many" of the 4500 of them at BA? I doubt it. But hey, why bother with facts when you can cast aspersions with that big broad brush of yours based on that massive chip on your shoulder.
Once again, and as said above. Don't feed the Journo Trolls folks, they're only after a headline.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Button Moon
Rated de - being an Office bod (albeit not BA 0900-1700) I once asked my DFO why I could work 12hrs at the weekend for jack all, whereas a Nigel/Rupert could get £500 for working one minute into their day off - His reply was 'Angry - go be a Pilot'
So Rated if you want an Office job - go figure (and take the pay that goes with it)
So Rated if you want an Office job - go figure (and take the pay that goes with it)
In my opinion you were worth your weight in gold and certainly more to that airline than anyone else either on or off the line. Whatever your remuneration was, it wasn’t enough.
Hope alls well!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Such utter rubbish being spoused about pilots roles and their ego and how they're going to be easily replaced.
Nonsense, and I've heard it all before coming from the defence industry. And no I'm not a BA pilot so no reason to not have an open mind on this.
Here's today's article from Forbes describing what Captains are trained to handle. Have a read and open your own mind instead of trying to belittle pilots on this forum going through a rough ride - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristyk.../#7306dc21b104
Nonsense, and I've heard it all before coming from the defence industry. And no I'm not a BA pilot so no reason to not have an open mind on this.
Here's today's article from Forbes describing what Captains are trained to handle. Have a read and open your own mind instead of trying to belittle pilots on this forum going through a rough ride - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristyk.../#7306dc21b104
the lunatic fringe
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 621
Likes: 5
From: Everywhere
Nasty, ignorant comment. A comment that tells me all I need to know about you, and nothing about the smelly, noisy excuse for the supposed rest place that is the "bunk." And if you think I as a Captain of a 747-400 just happily drifts off to sleep whilst handing over the controls to two FOs, you absolutely have never been a pilot or a Captain. Go back to posting your poison on the Daily Mail.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
I am not at BA, I am a lucky one. I am at easy where my salary and annual bonus is far in excess of my equivalent rank and experience colleagues and friends at BA. Your comments are puerile, childish and ill educated and the Daily Mail really is where you belong.
Joined: Sep 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 884
Likes: 233
From: by the seaside
Real pilots and trolls
Most of you have no clue to the training that went into the old pilots of the corporations. Day 1 sign official secrets act. Fed all quiet on the western front (english version) whilst being assessed as to our political leanings
18 months of graft..1/3 rd chopped. Started on crumbs without peanuts and most of my mates 20 years to command on aircraft full of carry forward defects and some just passed between captains to avoid grounding.
Captains who couldnt manually fly the aircraft.
Comprehensive understanding of laws, rules of the air, responsibility and dealing with frightened pax and sometimes crew who were intoxicated.
7 years in, I participated in an experiment..BEA to BOAC...10 months later I order the captain to put out a mayday..fortunately I am able to trouble shoot and discover during our descent back to take off airport that it was a runaway yaw damper. First reported occurrence. Reverse course again and get pissed in HKG thinking how good it is to be alive.
Chucked it in and did 13 years flying for the Swiss before I started my command course which was six months including practical meetings with everyone concerned with our operation from loading, atc to the equivalent of the SAS if I was hijacked.
Had an emergency over the north pole where the Navigation system doesnt do what it says on the box...absolutely no chance of survival if we get it wrong..turns out first polar crossing and programming wrong but get hauled over the coals as I disobeyed SOP..no apology once MD discovered the fault.
And all of my career if I made one eff up I would be on the dole or nicked as happened to Glen Stewart who topped himself doing his best for BA with management approval who dropped him in the Sxxt..ask bergerie.
GOOD LUCK TO THE GUYS..MY AIRLINE IS LONG GONE LIKE PAN AM AND TWA..why? management.
18 months of graft..1/3 rd chopped. Started on crumbs without peanuts and most of my mates 20 years to command on aircraft full of carry forward defects and some just passed between captains to avoid grounding.
Captains who couldnt manually fly the aircraft.
Comprehensive understanding of laws, rules of the air, responsibility and dealing with frightened pax and sometimes crew who were intoxicated.
7 years in, I participated in an experiment..BEA to BOAC...10 months later I order the captain to put out a mayday..fortunately I am able to trouble shoot and discover during our descent back to take off airport that it was a runaway yaw damper. First reported occurrence. Reverse course again and get pissed in HKG thinking how good it is to be alive.
Chucked it in and did 13 years flying for the Swiss before I started my command course which was six months including practical meetings with everyone concerned with our operation from loading, atc to the equivalent of the SAS if I was hijacked.
Had an emergency over the north pole where the Navigation system doesnt do what it says on the box...absolutely no chance of survival if we get it wrong..turns out first polar crossing and programming wrong but get hauled over the coals as I disobeyed SOP..no apology once MD discovered the fault.
And all of my career if I made one eff up I would be on the dole or nicked as happened to Glen Stewart who topped himself doing his best for BA with management approval who dropped him in the Sxxt..ask bergerie.
GOOD LUCK TO THE GUYS..MY AIRLINE IS LONG GONE LIKE PAN AM AND TWA..why? management.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
I see IAG are now saying the strikes have reduced earnings by 137Million euros for 2019. What a waste of time and money when we could be all looking ahead to the uncertain future that Brexit will bring and the new challenges we will face.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 35
From: Home
Apparently there has been no move from BA to negotiate. One can only assume that BA. / IAG have set aside a multi€€€€/££££ from profits, war chest to attain their aim.
Great to see the unity of the pilots against this threat. The prospect of Mr Cruz stated aim of Minimum LR crew, (multiple 2 Crew Denver’s a month?) airport hotels, no LR double night-stops. Combined with SH/LH rostering to max legal FTLs is a daunting thought.
Even comparing UK airlines EASY Capt. pay is superior for comparable seniority in either Company. Virgin crews have a max 750 hour CAP vs 900 in BA.
Keep up the fight.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Planet Funk
I saw Gunning's letter. No mention of the monumental IT Cock Ups. The fines. All spin. These people are on a different planet. I think BALPA should up the ante tbh. I think random 2 days per week for a month will get them to the table sharpish. BA would not be able to sustain that and the City wouldn't allow it.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
At least it makes you feel important though.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
Somewhat harsh. You must have misunderstood my motive. I was not gloating nor trying to make myself feel important. I would be at BA if I had not transferred seats at easy whilst in the BA pool. My point was aimed directly at the nice guy slagging off pilots, and in particular BA pilots, by making the point that BA pilots are paid significantly less than easy pilots for the same job on the same aircraft. And yes, my roster is awful but sh BA is not any better.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
But I do agree it does read a bit off especially if you delete the second sentence of my original comment !
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
At some point pilots need a make a stand at the poor terms and conditions on offer in the UK generally. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening as the industry is too fragmented, and pilots identify with their aircraft or airline more than a fellow pilot working elsewhere. You don't see that with Doctors , for example.
In the BA/IAG case, the organisation has shown itself to be unwilling to negotiate further. It is pointless waiting any longer. A one month strike would bring things to a head, and make loss of pay/salary deductions easy to calculate. Essentially, it is only the same as 1 months unpaid leave, something that is increasingly difficult to get in BA.
I would be more than happy to continue striking until the end of the mandate, before balloting to extend it further.
In the BA/IAG case, the organisation has shown itself to be unwilling to negotiate further. It is pointless waiting any longer. A one month strike would bring things to a head, and make loss of pay/salary deductions easy to calculate. Essentially, it is only the same as 1 months unpaid leave, something that is increasingly difficult to get in BA.
I would be more than happy to continue striking until the end of the mandate, before balloting to extend it further.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 61
From: Earth
Give me EZY fixed pattern over the horrific rosters I have seen at BA SH any day. I rarely do a 4 sector day these days, my busiest month has been 83 hours. Average monthly hours is around 70 this summer and still full-time. Maybe I’m just lucky. First officers are getting it a bit harder mind.
Stick together and good luck.
Stick together and good luck.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 54
Likes: 1
From: UK
There’s no need to turn it into an EZY vs BA thread, it’s been done to death. One suits some and one suits others. Solidarity between all of us would go a long way to at least slowing the rot in this industry.
I personally can’t really afford to strike, but I definitely can’t afford not to.
I personally can’t really afford to strike, but I definitely can’t afford not to.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 460
Likes: 19
From: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
The dates 8th, 9th and 10th September all have something in common.
8th September 2017 the Thomas Cook pilots were on strike.
9th and 10th September 2019 the British Airways pilots were on strike.
These are the only dates that British pilots have been on strike since 1974.
8th September 2017 the Thomas Cook pilots were on strike.
9th and 10th September 2019 the British Airways pilots were on strike.
These are the only dates that British pilots have been on strike since 1974.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
To my mind it's pretty clear. If you absolutely want long haul, join BA (or Virgin). If you can cope without it, join EZY. I've worked at both companies and was considerably happier at the latter, and was treated considerably better.
BA will continue to push around and abuse its crew until recruitment becomes impossible - it's clear that's just how WW and AC have decided to operate. Until then, why make things better? These people have no conception of what working in the toxic company they've created is like. You can almost picture them at an expensive restaurant somewhere discussing the next barrage of cuts, productivity hikes, or strategies to break our resolve - just as their bottle of desert wine and 4 figure bill arrives. Meanwhile people line up to join BA on nothing but the industry rumour that it's still the best place to be. I fell for it too.
I was unlucky, I joined BA before I had a chance to move seats at EZY. I will however wait it out and move back as soon as I can.
BA will continue to push around and abuse its crew until recruitment becomes impossible - it's clear that's just how WW and AC have decided to operate. Until then, why make things better? These people have no conception of what working in the toxic company they've created is like. You can almost picture them at an expensive restaurant somewhere discussing the next barrage of cuts, productivity hikes, or strategies to break our resolve - just as their bottle of desert wine and 4 figure bill arrives. Meanwhile people line up to join BA on nothing but the industry rumour that it's still the best place to be. I fell for it too.
I was unlucky, I joined BA before I had a chance to move seats at EZY. I will however wait it out and move back as soon as I can.