BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Gran Bretaña
Not certain that is correct. BA have recruited around 250 new hires every year for some time now. There have also been cadet schemes, on and off, as well.
The combination of expansion against retirements, resignations and medical failures has driven a steady flow - gross employment increasing from 3500 heads 5 years ago to around 4100 today.
The combination of expansion against retirements, resignations and medical failures has driven a steady flow - gross employment increasing from 3500 heads 5 years ago to around 4100 today.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Gran Bretaña
If you think about it, SH LGW is not a bad decision as a new start, depending on where you live and what your priorities are. Mostly day trips, so pretty decent if you live nearby. Relative seniority isn't going to matter so much, and whichever Heathrow fleet you'd be on as a DEP, you'll not be getting weekends off anyway with JSS. No more cushy blind lines at Heathrow.
Anyone joining as a LH DEP is going to be super junior for a very, very long time, unless of course they bid for right seat short haul after a few years! Whether you're towards the bottom of 700 FOs on the 777 or on a small fleet like the 380 (which arguably, though, only has good trips), you're going to stagnate in that position every time a short haul FO with more seniority joins your fleet and leapfrogs you.
How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
Anyone joining as a LH DEP is going to be super junior for a very, very long time, unless of course they bid for right seat short haul after a few years! Whether you're towards the bottom of 700 FOs on the 777 or on a small fleet like the 380 (which arguably, though, only has good trips), you're going to stagnate in that position every time a short haul FO with more seniority joins your fleet and leapfrogs you.
How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 940
Likes: 57
From: Scotland
However, at c80% and full time on the P777 list I am getting pretty much what I want out of JSS. Those joining the fleet above me tend to replace those leaving to commands or other fleets, and the recruitment rate is such that I am still edging up the list. You don’t need to be 50% on the list to have a pleasant lifestyle by any means. The list is also skewed as the top third are waiting for a long haul command rather than returning to the Airbus.
Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!
There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.
Now tell me why BA is so bad?
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!
There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.
Now tell me why BA is so bad?
Last edited by The Mixmaster; 7th February 2019 at 17:56.
Joined: Apr 2013
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 368
Likes: 88
From: Neither here or there
Been at 3 Brit airlines based in the London area over the last decade. I've had the majority of my weekends off. A rostering system with only a 50% bias towards seniority with the remaining 50% of the roster being randomly assigned sounds like a better solution, if it can be implemented. I can hear the excuses already!
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Timba Hold
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!
There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.
Now tell me why BA is so bad?
At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!
There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.
Now tell me why BA is so bad?
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 940
Likes: 57
From: Scotland
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.
This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Timba Hold
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.
This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
(and cap+4 in summer!)
Last edited by MikeAlpha320; 7th February 2019 at 19:06. Reason: add
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
VOR.DME with respect, I think you should leave it there. Yes there are many people here who don’t know anything different but I’m BA, I’ve spent time at Flybe doing six sector days and a lot of the things you are grumbling about and I’ve also worked at Wizz Air. Unless you have experienced pay, CRM, attitudes and intimidation from management and the brutal rostering at Wizz you have no idea how far the bottom of the barrel actually goes. So yes there are worse places, but that’s not to say the grumbles highlighted here aren’t justified, some of them very much are. Does a man who lost his legs on 7/7 not have the right to complain because others died? Extreme example but there’s always someone worse off, we shouldn’t be using that justify an untenable position and a degradation in conditions.
Last edited by RexBanner; 7th February 2019 at 20:58.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 66
Likes: 25
From: UK
....and seemingly you’d be surprised at just how many BA pilots have ‘cut their teeth’ elsewhere. Most likely the majority of the pilot workforce.
With respect, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
With respect, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
Last edited by DuctOvht; 14th February 2019 at 07:32.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 32
From: France
I’ve instructed 3,500hrs in Cessnas and Pipers, flown air taxi and air survey in Aztecs, Senecas, Doves and Navajos, did a three year stint on exec jets and then ten years on 737 Charter ops before joining BA.
So, I reckon I’ve cut my teeth.
Now I fly a lovely new BA 787 from the LHS and I do feel very privileged and lucky.
BA is still great compared to most other UK pilot jobs, but could be so much better for comparatively little extra investment and things have definitely gone downhill in the twenty years that I’ve been here.
I don’t have a lot to complain about but I would support others in BA who do.
So, I reckon I’ve cut my teeth.
Now I fly a lovely new BA 787 from the LHS and I do feel very privileged and lucky.
BA is still great compared to most other UK pilot jobs, but could be so much better for comparatively little extra investment and things have definitely gone downhill in the twenty years that I’ve been here.
I don’t have a lot to complain about but I would support others in BA who do.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
If you are, don’t take it personally..there are still many out there who think that absolutely everybody at BA is a Nigel who went to finishing school and then joined BA via Hamble or some sort of cadet scheme.
The reality these days is most of the current BA line pilots have indeed “cut their teeth” in variety of flying jobs with all sorts of operators and organisations prior to joining the company as a DEP in their thirties, forties or even a bit older...
The reality these days is most of the current BA line pilots have indeed “cut their teeth” in variety of flying jobs with all sorts of operators and organisations prior to joining the company as a DEP in their thirties, forties or even a bit older...
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 32
From: France
Hi VOR.DME,
No offence taken and none intended!
As Wiggy said, most of the guys and gals that I fly with are ex military and/or DEPs from other airlines. Makes for an interesting mix of people (but all fitting the BA selection profile, whatever that is).
On the odd occasion that I come across a Cadet, sponsored or self-funded, who joined BA straight out of Oxford or wherever, I can’t help feeling a little sorry for them for missing the variety of experience that I enjoyed. OTOH, if one of my kids had that opportunity, I wouldn’t try to talk them out of it.
I had a good position and base in the 737 Charter world and it was a tough decision to join BA at the age of 42. I’m glad I did but I wouldn’t presume to advise others to do the same as it’s now a different time and situation. In any case, it’s not a one-way street as some have recently shown by going back to whence they came. Good luck to all.
No offence taken and none intended!
As Wiggy said, most of the guys and gals that I fly with are ex military and/or DEPs from other airlines. Makes for an interesting mix of people (but all fitting the BA selection profile, whatever that is).
On the odd occasion that I come across a Cadet, sponsored or self-funded, who joined BA straight out of Oxford or wherever, I can’t help feeling a little sorry for them for missing the variety of experience that I enjoyed. OTOH, if one of my kids had that opportunity, I wouldn’t try to talk them out of it.
I had a good position and base in the 737 Charter world and it was a tough decision to join BA at the age of 42. I’m glad I did but I wouldn’t presume to advise others to do the same as it’s now a different time and situation. In any case, it’s not a one-way street as some have recently shown by going back to whence they came. Good luck to all.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Button Moon
