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Old 12th Nov 2016, 11:52
  #3261 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hang on, let me check the FMS...
Posts: 195
Didn't they go to HKG as well?

Does seem odd to specifically try to attract guys to long haul, and then say the year your in the pool there will be no or very little recruitment.

Will wait and see what 2018 brings, but if you are already in the pool will you not expire before then?
FlyingTinCans is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2016, 12:31
  #3262 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 39
Posts: 7
I think the issue is the fact that BA have potentially recruited for jobs that, if this thread is correct, don't exist.
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 12:42
  #3263 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: England
Posts: 8
I think that's a touch harsh Plastic787. People have applied for a particular job, there is no sense of entitlement other than for the specific job they applied for.

As for bypassing people, I am sure that the overall master seniority list see's to the fact that no bypassing has taken place. Very few people join BA not seeing it as a "final" job so surely everyone ends up where they want and it's just a case of how much seniority you have when you get there? I can completely understand people being upset if they have seen out their freeze and can't get the positions that are being given to DEPs, but I am unsure as to if that's actually happened? As for those in their freeze, surely they knew that when they joined so wouldn't expect to be entitled to change fleets before that's complete?
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 12:51
  #3264 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
I think the issue is the fact that BA have potentially recruited for jobs that, if this thread is correct, don't exist.
Sadly I don't think there was any such think as a guaranteed job in aviation, let alone guarantees of promised positions, at any airline.. there's a limited number posts and there's the prickly issue that an increasing number of current BA employees have got the seniority for those "jobs"...


Up until recently as we all know there was a need for a lot of recruitment at BA, as we know most entrants went onto the A320. No problem there.

As far as filling Long Haul seats that was a bit unusual (in terms of numbers). Because of type freezes for those recruited to Short Haul at the front end of the current recruiting bulge, and the company's reluctance to release individuals early from their freeze periods (on the grounds of lack of training capacity) the company could "legitimately" deny internal transfers from those wanting to leave Short Haul and recruit DEPs direct to LH without busting agreements. Obviously some feathers were indeed ruffled (as witnessed in a previous post) and I have to say I can sympathise with the POV of those who suffered as a result.

Fast forward twelve months and even more BA P2s have exited their freeze periods and have entirely legitimate expectations of being slotted into the established process for conversion to a Long Haul type. There's a lull in deliveries - the A380 Fleet is now (I think) fully established, the only new Long Haul hull due in the year is a single 787 ...chuck the newly revealed business plan into the mix and suddenly it appears that there aren't going to be anything like as many vacant Long Haul RHS next year as there were this year. As a result it's going to be very hard for management to justify large numbers of DEPs leap frogging onto Long Haul ahead of existing time served/freeze served BA P2s. In conclusion I'd expect the vast vast majority of LH slots next year will go to existing BA P2s..there's no shortage of internal bidders. That doesn't mean there's no possibility of DEPs direct to Long Haul...but IMHO if it happens it won't be offered in significant numbers.

Of course you can never say never, there might be a sudden change of fleet plan, the next run of the "system" might chuck up shortages...but at the moment this does look like being a relatively slack year...

Last edited by wiggy; 12th Nov 2016 at 17:09.
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 14:03
  #3265 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
I was offered and accepted a short haul position mid last month. I was in the long haul pool but due to circumstances was happy to accept short haul. From what was mentioned it definitely seems as though there will be very few DEP LH offers made. I was swimming for just over 6 months! Good luck to everyone waiting, hopefully it won't be too long.
Julietsierra6 May I ask when you did your sim assessment?
Ea300 is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2016, 16:19
  #3266 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: London
Posts: 17
I doubt it will make much difference to internal bidders / external recruitment but I personally know two recent joiners to the company on long haul who are returning to Ryanair in the coming few weeks
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 18:21
  #3267 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
That's not even the most shocking one. A couple used their right to return to go back to Monarch recently.
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 18:35
  #3268 (permalink)  
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 943
Some good posts here recently. I even agree totally with the frustrations probably experienced by SH Fo's being leap frogged by DEP's to LH positions. As wiggy explains though this is just the way of the world really. In my airline there are guys joining as DEP's getting their base from day 1 along with going onto a contract where they're employed directly by the airline. I'm 8 years in and still don't have either.

However I like to think I'm sensible. I did apply via the LH application, and this is my third attempt.. I'm more than willing to accept basically anything they offer me in any base. I'd hate to sink in the pool and am hoping that now I've let them know I'd accept a SH position that i will be offered one at some point.

I also heard the pool duration might be extended to 18 months although of course I've no idea if this is true.
VJW is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2016, 23:42
  #3269 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 181
Short Haul is nowhere near as bad as some on here make out. That's also coming from a commuter.
Yes it is.
blimey is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2016, 00:01
  #3270 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Manchester
Posts: 64
One of the team involved in recruitment tells me there about 80 odd in the hold pool which will satisfy all BA's needs for 2017. Add this to the recent information out from the postings and promotions department stating that next year recruits will be onto A320 at LHR/LGW.
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Old 13th Nov 2016, 07:37
  #3271 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
I've said more than enough in my previous post but maybe I should have added : if the Long Haul DEP slots don't materialise please don't blame the individuals on the recruiting team - those I know, right from the ex "boss" down, are very straight and forthright individuals and they will have been acting in good faith on information they had available to them at the time.

They may have been overtaken by events (including a new CEO) and the new business plan.
wiggy is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2016, 08:27
  #3272 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 47
Ea300 my sim was early April.
JulietSierra6 is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2016, 16:17
  #3273 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
Latest forecast which does not take account of aspirational part time bids is LHR and LGW A320 DEP for 2017. LH looks like it has enough bids to supply from internal applications. Most junior is 3500 for P2 777 and 3000 for P2 787 so that is about 5-6 years service. There are no forecast commands on A320 other than gatwick but that's bounced to normal levels of around 2300. Joining SH with a view of a quick command is probably going to disappoint. The LH P2 seniority levels would suggest it goes down to unfrozen levels so that could mean there could be DEP onto LH due to frozen bids. It's worth noting however unlike the A320 which was tagged as DEP the LH fleets just have a seniority number along side. It's not a clear cut answer but that's as much info as anyone has and should help people decide. My two pence, if I were swimming and got offered SH I would not be so bold as to turn it down to wait for LH.
bex88 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2016, 10:25
  #3274 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: On Parole!
Posts: 60
Does anyone know rumours of recruitment opening again?
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 12:54
  #3275 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 172
Allowed time in the hold pool has been extended to 18 months. Only 1 long haul aircraft being delivered next year not seen any mention of any short haul hulls.

Put those all toether and I guess the recruitment website will be quiet for a little while to come.

But then again that was yesterday's plan.
back to Boeing is online now  
Old 17th Nov 2016, 13:49
  #3276 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
Even without new hulls it shouldn't be complete gloom and doom - as has been mentioned there's the issue of demand for Part Time working contracts, which if granted in significant numbers could produce some demand for new entrants, there's also the fact that retirements will start to pick up as people reach 65...

It's hard to see at the moment what will happen and whether there will be enough demand to trigger a call for LH DEPs in 2017 but as bex88 has said: " if I were swimming and got offered SH I would not be so bold as to turn it down to wait for LH."
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 14:23
  #3277 (permalink)  
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 943
I'm swimming having applied via the LH route. I've let BA know I'd accept a SH offer however judging by the email I received the other day and the fact pool duration is now 18 months, I have it in my head that I won't receive any offer (the email said no LH offers in 2017, and the 'majority' of SH offers would go to type rated guys- which I am not) until this time next year at the earliest.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 14:59
  #3278 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 44
Posts: 495
Apparently there has been a significant reduction of about 12% of flying for next year, with some non profitable routes being canned, Chengdu was the first victim, more to come it would seem.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 16:29
  #3279 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 676
IAG lowers plans for capacity growth, fleet investment & profit, but keeps return on capital target

Food for thought.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 23:10
  #3280 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 187
70% of swimmers are non-type rated apparently. Keep up those hopes!
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