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Old 5th Feb 2016, 09:44
  #2561 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 803
So is there any more clarity on what this new roster system is going to deliver?

All bidding for destinations and days off, so if you're junior you will still get the equivalent of a blind line? Can you prioritise days off over destinations? Will trip swapping still be available?
Jwscud is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 09:54
  #2562 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 312
Unfortunately I have no say in this as I, like you, wondered what I was achieving for my money and after a series of simply shocking decisions gave myself a 1% pay rise.
Yep, I may well do the same.
2 Whites 2 Reds is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 10:05
  #2563 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,650
So is there any more clarity on what this new roster system is going to deliver?
Not really. There's lots of verbiage about "preferences", and "bid groups", I'm fairly middling on my status list and would certainly like to see concrete examples of how one of my bids would be processed by "JSS" before coming to any conclusions. If anyone here has actually worked under JSS I'd be interested to hear their comments.

Overall it feels to me we're being asked to buy a new car without being allowed a test drive.
wiggy is online now  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 10:06
  #2564 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 629
I'll tell what has changed in the last few years. We all worked particularly hard last year, but were paid the flying pay allowance based on the year before. This meant that BA saved a small fortune because we were effectively underpaid. The system means that this year, we should be paid for last year's hard work, but we'll be doing less flying this year because the pilot numbers are more realistic. BA have recognised that they can save by going back to the old system this year because they won't have to pay us the extras due to last year's enforced extra work. Also, sickness rates have increased since the new system of pay came into effect. What they don't recognise is that when people are forced to work harder, sickness is bound to increase. If you need a day off and you're going to get final assigned if you bid for that day off and then have the spotlight on you if you go sick for the trip, then most 'humans' would actively bid to work on the day they need off, with the knowledge that they can go sick without the spotlight on them. As a result, many people have stopped bidding for the days off they need - using sickness to achieve it instead. This is a problem the company would of course like to sort out, but it has nothing to do with whether people are paid 9 an hour flying rate or whether it's a fixed monthly payment.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 10:18
  #2565 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 629
In all honesty, even back during the last vote, I recognised that both new rostering systems are identical in all respects, except for how much they will cost BA. The currently planned system will have optimisation which if BA gets its act together, will produce precisely the same rosters as the new proposed system. The only advantage with sticking with the current plan is that we all know they will cut corners with their software to save a penny, which will of course cost a pound in inefficiencies which would work in our favour.

I've personally spent very little time worrying about the new systems - I've hardly even read what little literature we've been given. The one BALPA has recommended is coming, and I'll learn how to use it when it arrives.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 11:43
  #2566 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: N/A
Posts: 2
GS Alpha. I agree 100% with your mindset. How long will it take before the membership realise that 'the Emperor is stark bollock naked!'?
AdrianShaftsworthy is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 18:22
  #2567 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 390
Slightly worrying reading, given that I start in 10 days...

Will the PBS system get rid of the CAP system and considerably limit the ability to swap? Will it get rid of overtime?

I've spent the last few years on 5/4/5/3 and it's not ideal either. The days off never seem to fall when I need them. The ability to build CAP credit and swap was a factor in my decision to de-orange. Hope it's not all going away...
Permafrost_ATPL is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 19:07
  #2568 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 629
The CAP system is still going to exist in some format or other because part of the deal is a change to annual CAP. Swapping is the main problem. I think a theoretical ability to swap will still exist, however when everyone is working efficiently with minimum days off inbetween trips, it will be very difficult to organise swapping of trips in order to obtain different days off to the ones you have been rostered.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 19:20
  #2569 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London,England
Posts: 1,292
we then normally get told that not voting for the BACC's recommended option will result in them (or many of them) resigning.
Worth re-joining for I would say, where do I sign-up?
Max Angle is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2016, 19:34
  #2570 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 390
Thanks GS-ALPHA. Am I correct in guessing that ability to swap under the new system will be more reduced for SH than LH? Never done LH before, so might have guessed completely wrong.
Permafrost_ATPL is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 05:12
  #2571 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,650

It's early days for EASA FTLs in Longhaul but I think even under Bidline swapping is becoming more difficult. Unless you are swapping two trips which cover the same days you're now quite likely to fall foul of the rules concerning post rotation rest and/or pre duty acclimatisation rules. Also legit combinations for Longhaul back to backs at base are much more limited. I can say with some degree of certainty that there are swaps in Longhaul that would have been legal in January but are now being refused due FTLs..

In short it looks like under either Bidline or JSS whilst you might be able to swap to get to a preferred destination, it's going to be difficult to swap to get preferred days off.
wiggy is online now  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 05:37
  #2572 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hang on, let me check the FMS...
Posts: 195
Does anyone know how this 'JSS' is going to function?

My previous employers used preferential based system and it effectively allowed the top 10% of each rank to write there own roster while the other 90% got rosters that contained anything from 1 or 2 granted requests to absolute zero as it was based solely on seniority - if this is what BA are asking you to start using I would do everything you can to make sure it doesn't get implemented, even if they 'rotate' seniority it doesn't work ask the EK guys, the system is awful. BA has always been 'less money more lifestyle' it could turn into less money less lifestyle.

Not all preferential based systems operate to that extreme but has BA shown anyone examples of what the rosters would look like? If the bidding will be done entirely on seniority or if it would operate more like the leave system and be done using 'points/credits'? i.e I really want my daughters birthday off so use all my 100 points to bid for that day off, if no one senior to you uses the same amount of points/credits you get that day but with no more points to use you can't bid for anything else.

On a separate note how many long haul trips are being rostered under EASA? Normal 4-5 or have they squeezed in 5-6?
FlyingTinCans is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 07:24
  #2573 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 390
Thanks Wiggy. My timing, as usual, is exquisite!
Permafrost_ATPL is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 07:40
  #2574 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 828
FlyingTinCans my understanding of the impact of EASA on long haul means that they can't "squeeze in" more work as the regulations are far more restrictive on doing things like back to back trips. The impact of EASA has left BA with the requirement for more pilots on Long Haul to cover the work (hence the current recruitment) not less.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 09:21
  #2575 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 279
What's the difference between this new JSS and the Carmen (preference based) system that LGW use? Is that being replaced aswell?

The general consensus on Carmen is it's actually a bit better for juniors as you can all-but-guarantee yourself one block of days off a month by making it your sole preference (at the expense of a random mix for the rest of that month)
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 06:25
  #2576 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 83
On another note, those going through the BA selection will be assessed on the 747-400 sim from Apr.
A340Yumyum is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 08:13
  #2577 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,650
What's the difference between this new JSS and the Carmen
Can't comment on Carmen, all I know is it is proposed we adopt a bespoke version of this:


I believe some have been quite impressed having "attended" Webinars on the subject given by BALPA, and some of the more junior are singing it's praises, but my eyes were drawn to this in the brochure:

The optimizer keeps track of multiple,
equally good schedules for each crew
member and it always chooses the one
that even the junior crew member will
have the maximum benefit from, as long
as it does not affect the satisfaction of
a more senior crew member
wiggy is online now  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 09:49
  #2578 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: france
Posts: 106
Hi guys!
I am applying to BA.
I have a little issue with the 3 essais to write down at the application stage.
Is there any model showing exactly what HR want to read?
English is not my 1st language, I think I am doing well with it but writing is not the best for me.
You can think I am lazy! I have tried to write the essais myself but the result doesn't sound great!����
Thanks for you help!
lfrk is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 10:06
  #2579 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: EGKK
Age: 57
Posts: 66
HR would be interested to read about the history of Caen airfield 1939-2016
Flap 80 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 10:37
  #2580 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: London
Posts: 2
I think HR might want to read an essai which has been through spell check!
nebby is offline  

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