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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 1st Mar 2018, 11:40
  #4601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
Combined with the unjustifiable system of Reserve Banding. On LH in particular, with the increasing uptake of PTWK, it canít be long before we see every junior full time worker doing Reserve pretty much whenever they have a 28 day window? (Though Iíve a vague recollection you canít be assigned Reserve in consecutive months??)

But what you described are exactly why joining as a direct entry pilot onto a longhaul fleet is not the be-all.

Joining as a DEP LH you are joining on a much more senior fleet where everyone joining the fleet, apart from a few new entry pilots recruited after you onto the fleet, will be more senior then yourself. Even pilots moving from SH to LH will be more senior then yourself. Blindlines, or under jss getting maximum optimalisation, are all you will be doing for up to 5 years (unless significant amounts of new recruits join behind you on the fleet).

On SH as a new entrent you should be able to climb the fleet seniority list by around 15 to 20% a year were as on LH as a new entrant because of the above you will be hovering at the bottom for the best part of the first 5 years. That is the beauty of a seniority based system were it doesnít really matter if new pilots go directly onto LH bypassing SH. Once that SH pilot moves to LH (s)he will get the higher roster satisfaction.
(Before flying hours are mentioned as a right to bypass SH. On my SH joiners course the least experienced pilot had 3000 hours)

Also the SH pilots moving to LH will have done around 5 years in the company and thus get more points for a reserve period then yourself. Joining the fleet, you start with the fleet average reserve points, but will have to do more often a reserve period then the pilots 5 years and 10 years in the company. On SH you will find just a few pilots longer in the company then 5/10 years so most are in the same band resulting in having to do less reserves then the new entry LH pilot. One might argue this banding system is not fair but most join on SH and will have done a fair few reserve periods on SH which are much harder then a LH reserve.

Holiday and Xmas are based on a point system and are the same for SH and LH. You start off with 0 so run a fair chance of not getting your first 2 Xmasses off, after which you should be able to. Holidays are the same. If you take a peak week summer school holiday as your week off you get less points then a for a week in the middle of November. The more points you have the more likely you will get the holiday over a periond you bit for.

Last edited by Jumbo2; 1st Mar 2018 at 12:00.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 12:20
  #4602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9
Hey, what's with all this fretting about silly little aspects of your job when you're blind to the looming threat of job displacement through Artifical Intelligence. Just enjoy flying planes to earn a salary. Whilst you still can. FFS, stop bitching like a load of spoilt pansies and wake up! The world 'out there' is far more interesting and good fun.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 13:50
  #4603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 91
Thank you for the valuable contribution to this thread. Amazing insight and right on subject. Think you maybe looking for the Daily Mail.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 14:21
  #4604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,258
Hope is all swimmers have, donít take that away from people when you know yourself how quickly things can change
They can change quickly, however VJW is correct in saying that things may not turn out well. They havenít on a number of occasions. Iím not sure what BA recruitment do regarding hold pool extension periods (went from 12 to 18 months when I was swimming back in 2012) however when it was over it was over. Reapply and start again was the only option. BA will never have a shortage in applicants, the fossett never seems to dry up.

Regardless, always best to have a plan B in aviation.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 16:50
  #4605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 95
If they do let everyone in the hold pool drown, what an absolute waste of time and money that will have been.

Iím hoping that with their current focus on costs they will recognise that expiring the hold pool would be squandering all the money spent on interviews/sims.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 17:17
  #4606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,258
Maybe, however at the time when I was in the pool a very senior BA Captain explained something to me. He agreed that waving goodbye to a pool of experienced pilots, who were in continued flying practice and whom had considerable time & money invested in their recruitment, was indeed criminal. However, according to him, if this had been the 'done thing' in BA since the dawn of time then it could be a very difficult process to change, especially if the people who were in support of it were any way influential (leading members of HR! )

However, back in 2012/13, circumstances were quite different. IAG were to purchase bmi and as a result they would be required to integrate a massive number of pilots onto the BA list. PP24 would also no longer be available, something that was on the cards when I entered the pool! Additionally, the first batch of the FPP lads and ladies would filter through and would take priority (could you imagine the PR disaster if they didn't get flying jobs!). Towards the end of my tenure in the pool, the forecast for any further DEP recruitment was bleak. Little did anyone know that in under 12 months it would skyrocket to beyond anything that the airline had ever encountered. Funny place aviation. Luckily my plan B came to fruition around this time and I haven't looked back. Still, in hindsight, it was nice to have a go at the DEP assessments and be successful (well, sort of successful).

Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 1st Mar 2018 at 23:00.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 18:52
  #4607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hotel time zone
Posts: 149
All other operators I have encountered require a repeat of the assessment if more than 12 months has elapsed without starting employment.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 19:54
  #4608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 54
BA considering outsourcing training.Bad idea.DFO resigned over this.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 23:11
  #4609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 189
BA considering outsourcing training.Bad idea.DFO resigned over this.
Rumour. Correct. Rumour.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 15:32
  #4610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London
Posts: 2
I have to say I'm becoming highly sceptical of who is writing some of these replies. FR Management possibly to stem to the outflow of pilots and attract newcomers?.. Nothing surprises me! It crosses my mind as some of the comments are not balanced and very anti BA, suggesting FR maybe better.

Madness and very worrying! Whilst I can't comment on Easy and whether people maybe happy to stay there, the only thing I can say is 4 sector days are not enjoyable and the lack of variety in the job over a lifetime would surely become dull for most.

I can comment on FR and stress it is not a nice place to work for many many reasons. Firstly the money is only better if you are based in the UK or Ireland on a fr contract(Captain). Anywhere else in Europe it's not. Tax situation is messy and its pointless comparing pay to contractor guys as they are most probably avoiding paying tax for the most part which is a risky and stressful game.

Ive witnessed HMRC chasing guys down in crew rooms and heard of police involvement around Europe. Not knowing if you will have your home repossesed if you ever get caught out is not a way to live and guys talk about running off to the Middle East if it ever came to it to avoid prosecution.

Personally I didn't get involved in any of that as its not worth the stress. So money aside whats its like. Everyone is miserable. I don't know many people who enjoy going to work. 4 sector days plus are hell and doing that 5 days in a row with minimum rest will probably put guys in an early grave. The guys doing it a long time In there 50's look exhausted and have an emptiness in their eyes.

Being based in London Stansted is a miserable. Crap facilities (most in the network becoming portacabin's) , no one smiles, you look like a janitor wearing the ridiculous blue company coat, people don't like you because you work for fr, no pride in the job, lack of respect from most people. No pay for standbys, no pay for anything outside of block hours so delays you work for free ( there are a lot of delays!), no food or drinks even when you have been working for free for 8 hours sat at the gate. Constantly being disturbed during rest periods to do favours and change duties.

Management have little respect for you and are always on the offensive. People are being called to head office to explain being sick for as little as 3/4 days in the year and given formal warnings and threatened that they will be dismissed if they call in sick again. If you have a few minutes delay for very legitimate reasons then expect to be called up by management who will blame you and give you a warning. Such a joy operating for them.

Also If guys are getting paid more than BA, remember that FR pilots are working their absolute max hours in the conditions mentioned. Money certainly isn't everything and especially if its only marginally more, having to put up with so much. Hotels are truly dreadful with no transfers arranged a lot of the time(wait months to be paid back for expenses).

I could go on and on with endless examples. Everything I've mentioned is 100% true with no exaggeration. The proof is in the pudding. Masses are leaving FR and more than 80% of guys I talk to are applying to leave. Anyone defending it, defend the statistics as they speak for themselves.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 20:41
  #4611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by heli-wings View Post
Well, having just read the last 2 weeks worth Iím sorely tempted to withdraw from the holdpool; just to reduce the likelihood of ever having to sit next to VJW on a LH flight.😜
A bit harsh I feel. He/she only saying it as he/she sees it. And actually if you do withdraw the likelihood increases.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 23:19
  #4612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,104
2015 - I left easyJet and joined BA on the A320.

I love the job and I'm happy I work for BA (it isn't perfect and its best days are certainly behind it, but name me an airline where this isn't true), overall I'm glad I left easyJet.

Take the negative comments here with a pinch of salt, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA and they don't realise how good they've had it, or how good they currently have it.

They'll tell you the 747 is a sh1t fleet to be on, that it used to be fantastic - but if you're joining from easyJet/Ryanair it's still going to be a fantastic experience compared to lugging 180 tracksuit wearing Brits around Europe.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 23:30
  #4613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by student88 View Post
They'll tell you the 747 is a sh1t fleet to be on, that it used to be fantastic - but if you're joining from easyJet/Ryanair it's still going to be a fantastic experience compared to lugging 180 tracksuit wearing Brits around Europe.
I rarely sing BA's praises. They haven't (yet) managed to f e c k up the 747 fleet. It does shorter trips now than the SIN-SYD and similar epics of the past - suits me as I like shorter trips - but it's a good place to be, despite being relatively junior.

Happiness remains V1 at LHR though.
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Old 2nd Mar 2018, 23:40
  #4614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,104
For me it comes once I've left the BS bravado of the CRC behind.

Some pilots are currently getting their knickers in a twist because current ops have made voluntary airport standby available for long haul pilots to help with snow disruption - BUT THESE ARE ONLY MEANT FOR SHORT HAUL PILOTS! God forbid..

If you don't want to do it don't volunteer and move on with your life.

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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 02:26
  #4615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 168
Happiness remains V1 at LHR though.
Crew car park in the rear view mirror.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 03:05
  #4616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,496
Student88

, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA

Want to put some numbers on that? I canít speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...

The older pilots are mostly mid 1980ís/ early 90ís DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. Itís no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 05:43
  #4617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 75
Take the negative comments here with a pinch of salt, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA and they don't realise how good they've had it, or how good they currently have it.
Wiggy is correct, it used to be BA "Nigels" now its Rupperts
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 09:39
  #4618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Student88




Want to put some numbers on that? I can’t speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...

The older pilots are mostly mid 1980’s/ early 90’s DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. It’s no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
While that may be true, most of the stories I hear sitting in the RHS are about how great life used to be back then. 7 days in the Caribbean, bus juice, one out one back to somewhere in Europe. I don't often hear stories about how awful the old days were and how great it is now.

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that most BA captains, certainly most LH BA Captains at any rate, are unlikely to have experienced the real low-cost world that started with the birth of Ryanair. How many could honestly hold their hands up and say they have worked 5 days of 4 sector days, 25 minute turn arounds, helping to clean the aircraft, filling up water bottles from taps outside portacabins, not getting any food or drink provided, paying for their own hotels...the list goes on.

Full disclosure; I can't say I've experienced that level of low cost either. It sounds horrific and I tend to agree with jettropo above that its interesting, at the very least, that people have popped up on this thread to make the case for Ryanair, just as BA launches a large recruitment drive. Particularly bearing in mind the well documented retention issues at Ryanair currently.

EDITED to add: Many of us in the RHS won't have experience of ultra low cost either. My point is that whether we like to admit it or not, some (most, all?) of us have probably forgotten or never knew the worst excesses of the low-cost end of the industry. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't fight to protect what we have either, just that we should be aware that what we have is still a pretty good deal, comparatively speaking.

Last edited by Northern Monkey; 3rd Mar 2018 at 09:56.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 10:09
  #4619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,496
I don't think it's unfair to suggest that most BA captains, certainly most LH BA Captains at any rate, are unlikely to have experienced the real low-cost world that started with the birth of Ryanair.
True, but that wasnít the claim being made in the post I responded to...

How many could honestly hold their hands up and say they have worked 5 days of 4 sector days, 25 minute turn arounds, helping to clean the aircraft, filling up water bottles from taps outside portacabins, not getting any food or drink provided, paying for their own hotels...the list goes on
But we are back to the four Yorkshiremen sketch again....I donít remember being pampered in that portion of my flying career in the 70s and 80s in my life before BA - being ******rushed, hassled, secondary tasks (sometimes unpleasant) not even staying in hotels, buying your own food etc etc isnít something new and it wasnít something suddenly invented by the LoCo sector 20 years ago....Iíll resist the urge to tell folks to pull up a chair...

I think some of the supposed ď bitternessĒ is down to some of the older pilots experiences before BA, and their intimate knowledge, gained from years of experience of how ďBAĒ can behave when it suits them.

BTW I take it those here who couldnít get to work because of the snow have written their letter to the headmaster.........

Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Mar 2018 at 10:19.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 14:13
  #4620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Windshearescape View Post
The realities of the Irish world may seem like they are many hours flight time away when you fly longhaul for BA but rest assured the aircraft is heading in that direction and it's only a matter of time before you land and you might not know it until you are filling up your water bottle outside the Heathrow porta cabin on day 5.
I doubt that very much as the pilots in BA are in a totally different situation to those in FR. Proper union recognition with the power to take action with all pilots on the same contract in 2 UK hubs. Also BA has a customer base that would be more wary of booking with an airline with potential strikes than those customers at FR who are mostly price driven and return to buy more tickets even if they have been disrupted in the past. BA pilots have far more power within their airline to not let things get to those lengths.
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