RYANAIR thoughts

[SD.]

Indeed, if your name is not on the list, they'll all know who the union men are.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Hundredpercent,

You took the quotation out of context and that, together with your evident lack of insight in to the workings of BALPA and Industrial Tribunals, rather hangs you by your own petard.

Firstly, the tactic of isolating the protagonists is not new: secondly, the spineless masses of Union acolytes, when faced with the grim reality that they could be next, back down and the support crumbles.

That leaves the leaders to fight their own fight, supported by the union or not, while the rest of cowards like you make certain that nothing falls at your door.

The leaders then win the victory of reinstatement, but the Tribunal is powerless to enforce it: hence they are still out of work!

Unite or perish refers not to your calls for union recognition, but rather the very sound advice that your blessed union is utterly worthless unless every last one of you is prepared to stand up and be counted, which, patently you are not.

You all bitch and moan because some of us really don't like your grubby little union: I have yet to see any of you put your heads above the parapet and canvas for your strongly held beliefs.

I have yet to hear even your union officials answer the questions I asked directly of them in private correspondence: in short, you are all mouth and no action.

I reiterate, you have no valid, coherent case to put forward: you all resort to personal attacks and abuse because you are incapable of presenting a manifesto of improvements.

I really don't care to involve myself in your pathetic little charade: the bases are rejecting the recognition applications one by one. Perhaps your demonstrated inadequacies and constant whining has done more to convince them than I ever could.

[intimidatedpilot]

Quote from Shoddy...Unite or perish refers not to your calls for union recognition, but rather the very sound advice that your blessed union is utterly worthless unless every last one of you is prepared to stand up and be counted, which, patently you are not.

How can every last one of us stand up when we have cowards like you on board.

[the grim repa]

Where are the ballot results????

Now we see the real nature of the pilot hating management that exists in ryanair through their latest union busting propoganda mouthpiece(slime shoddy).it is real easy to spout on about "heads above parapets" and "standing out",when protected by the management and knowing full well that the playing field is not level,because pro union pilots will be summarily fired.

What slime shoddy,neglects to tell you is that the results of the ballot will not become public knowledge because the pilots of ema chose to ignore his union busting tactics and boycotted the "undemocratic" vote.the latest vitriolic attack on pilots is no mask for his frustration that certain pilots are wise to the scam and he has got a damn good thrashing.who swung from the petard,may very well be slim the retard!abusing the sky has gone spookily quiet,possible that she has buckled under the pressure from all the supposed "threatening emails" which conveniently seem to have been forgotten.

slimbo,get the last throws of resistance out of your system,you have lost and you know it!!!

[intimidatedpilot]

Another Shoddy Quote

I really don't care to involve myself in your pathetic little charade: the bases are rejecting the recognition applications one by one. Perhaps your demonstrated inadequacies and constant whining has done more to convince them than I ever could.

It's only pathetic because of the like of you.........if things go your way, god help us. Three more years....maybe not enough time for you to learn.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Sad Intimated Person,

I'm not on board.

I can't stand you or your spineless colleagues.

You are all gutless.

I have the cojones to stand up for what I believe and put my name to it: you are just a bunch of......................

MHAW HAH HAH

We win.

You lose.

Love and Kisses

EMA Base

Sorry, PS DIM REPA, you lose too

And if you ask McAuslan nicely he will copy my letter to him to you:-)

Failing that, one of my colleagues who is pro BALPA will publish my email and letter.

[HundredPercentPlease]

RSS,

I'll give you a grown up answer - can you respond in a grown up way or will it be donkey pictures? I challenge you...

At our similar company (orange) we have similar managers to you. Disrespect for contracts and fairness at times, especially when it suits them.

When they turn to us and just take something away - either from all or a select group - then the union has power to say "no". And they do. And when the company says "tough, we shall do what we like", then the union serves a writ and the company has to back down.



Balpa are far from perfect, and I'd rather pay them less than I do. But they provide the legal glue that allows us to be heard, and it mostly works. And it has certainly left us in a better position financially.

You are promoting the opposite - the continuation of the situation where you can be picked off either individually or as a group. Why?

Prove you do have some balls by responding in a reasoned way.

[powdermonkey]

Mmmm apparently, FR have suspended/delayed TR courses certainly from Nov 09 onwards until April/May of next year, and have told candidates they will have to do another sim check! What gives? Too many recruits to process or interviewed too many for jobs on offer? ahhh will be interesting to see if they charge them for another sim check....Glad I didn't go for it! what a waste of money!

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Hundred percent, you know you won't, these characters have made a choice and they cannot change it, they have chosen to lick the greasy management pole fir their own ends so they can get on in ryanair. In doing this they have become hairy camels foot soldiers. The ryanair management style equates to outdated sweatshop slavery and they have aligned themsleves to thar so that they can secure positions as masters in this regime and be the bulliers rather than the bullied. For that reason you will never get his type to admit that pilots at the moment do not have a voice in ryanair and at the very least balpa would give them that voice. Instead they join a campain of intimidation and threats where they believe they are one of the chiefs, it is all so similar to how Hitler ruled Nazi Germany, many Germans wanted to revolt against Hitler but the iron grip the Nazis had over the country meant almost certain suicide for those who opposed him from within. In the end Hitler ruled Germany to the bitter end and look where he took his country. An extreme comparison granted, but slavery is not. If a base is only viable by running it without union input, how anyone can support such an absurd claim is beyond me, hell if we remove human rights then surley anybase could be made viable, but where do pilots draw the line? Where would hairy **** face and co draw the line? If balpa are not recognised then it is due to a campaign of threats intimidation and bullying, if I were an fo having to share a flight deck with any if these henchmen I don't know if the duty could be completed in a safe crm environment. This is truley one of the low points for both ryanair and our profession as a whole. I hope MOL's body fluids are keeping his henchmen who post here warm at night, because I don't know how they can live with themselves, truley astonishing that such 3rd world management is permitted to thrive on your backs today.

Best of luck to the ryanair guys, it can only get worse for you now, and i' m sure they will post that getting worse means bases staying open and jobs saved etc etc, fine let them believe that if they like the more enlightened of us know what it really means!

[intimidatedpilot]

powdermonkey

They probably were recruiting in the event of base closure and sacking of current employees. But they are falling on their shoddy ars*holes now, so may not need those in the pool for three years now. Far cheaper to keep to current slim (dim) ones.

[al446]

@ vexed, The 'ballot' RSS refers to has no legal standing AFAIK. The ballot for recognition must be simultaneous across the UK and run under the auspices of an independent organisation such as the Electoral Reform Society, this would normally happen via a mailout to all registered BALPA members within the company. I believe that either side may enclose a short statement supporting their case within the mail shot. All votes will be counted immediately following closure of the deadline by that independent body and it shall be a secret ballot therefor it will be impossible to determine the REAL strength of feeling at an individual base. It is up to each individual as to whether they wish to disclose how they voted and I suspect that those that do may not be telling the truth in order that back stabbers and company spivs do not grass them up. Nor would I rule out the opposite type of lie ie anti BALPA snake actually voting for because they can see the way the wind blows.
As another poster has said, the results that RSS is wallowing in are null and void and may be hugely skewed from the actual eventual outcome.
As a union person myself (Unison steward, RSS is sure to jump on that one) I hope RSS gets to write the statement for FR's anti stance, should be better than the Beano.

[Day_Dreamer]

Again we have forgotten the BRK pilots.
They are part of any base and should be given the right to decide the destiny of their base, and their careers.
Without their support any vote concerning recognition at a specific base could be challenged in the UK legal system.

The future of Base by Base representation is currently at a low ebb as those who have made their voices known have rejected BALPA representation leaving the others (Bases) who may vote in favour at greater risk of being closed and the workers being made surplus to requirements.

[Tooloose]

I'm sorry. I don't understand your point. Please say again slowly.

[ArthurBorges]

Dear Other Guy

Good lord. "I'm an English instructor at an university..."

And "deflamatry" was not a mistake - there is no such word and it wasn't a typo.

You're mixing and matching content to suit your flavour of the day: be my guest.

Your dictionary and mine agree.

I do have this feeling this thread is suffering professionally qualified levels of poisoning in a bid to mess up social networking.

I maintain that there are multiple stakeholders in your teacup squabble: it is not just employees vs. management, but users and airport vicinity residents as well.

I further maintain that quadrilogue (which may not be in your dictionary, Sir) can be as constructive as the spirit of its participants: win/win/win/win is definitely among the range of possible outcomes, if the airline's public relations people have enough imagination to suggest positive advertising spin-off.

I am basically SLF.

I would love to earn one more soft spot for one more airline.

So can we call off this little psyop?

[al446]

@ Day Dreamer - As I indicated in my post, the vote will be amongst BALPA members so I would have thought the answer to you would be to join BALPA. In my place of work we have people who work via agency, analagous to your situation I think, and I will always treat them as equals and represent them if they are Unison members. However you are also self-employed, if I understand things corrrectly, which means that your one man band company (that is what it is) is operating according to the T&Cs negotiated between your company and RYR, I am afraid that is the downside of the tax advantages you have as a 'company'.

@ ArthurBorges - What are you talking about? And location = China? Trolls in sight?

[The Real Slim Shady]

And there, al446, lies the rub.

the vote will be amongst BALPA members

The rest of you can whistle or join the shabby little outfit.

That is why The Real Slim Shady stood up: your feeble reliance on BALPA members ignores everyone else.

Vote No, retain your dignity and respect - and 1% of your salary

There is no such thing as a free lunch.....unless you work for BALPA

many a time and oft
In the Rialto you have rated me
About my moneys and my usances:
Still have I borne it with a patient shrug,
For sufferance is the badge of all our tribe.
You call me misbeliever, cut-throat dog

Recognise it?

[al446]

RSS

Nope, I don't recognise it and now you will probably call me an ignorant charlatan. I tend to spend more time reading relevant legislation, it can be helpful in assisting members. You should try it sometime as you seem to be having some difficulty in understanding the law regarding TU recognition.

There is no provision in law for a company wide, all inclusive vote as to whether a TU should be recognised or not, that is in the hands of members of the relevant union. Should you wish to pay your 1% and participate in order to vote no then go ahead, I am sure MOL will gladly reimburse you. I am not aware of BALPA's rule book but would have thought that, given your very public stance on this matter you may find that there is provision for them to legally refuse your application.

I will leave it to your pro-BALPA colleagues to discuss dignity and respect with you.

[HundredPercentPlease]

RSS,

It's not 1% - please get your facts right. The tax relief makes is less.

You said to me:

I reiterate, you have no valid, coherent case to put forward: you all resort to personal attacks and abuse because you are incapable of presenting a manifesto of improvements.

You then said:

I have the cojones to stand up for what I believe and put my name to it: you are just a bunch of......................

So I rose to your request here.

Do you have the balls to answer or not? The fact you have been on and posted without answer is making you look a little scared of reasoned debate. As well as spherically challenged.

[TheOtherGuy]

The whippings will continue until morale improves...

[Day_Dreamer]

al446
You are talking a load of cobblers !!!!
First I do not work for RYR or BRK.
Second the company I do work for is about to hold a vote for BALPA recognition which will include ALL our pilots regardless of their affiliation to BALPA or not.
Now if one company can do that then it would be easy in RYR.
However BALPA do not want that vote to happen just in case they are out voted, which is the same in RYR.

Anyone promoting such a restrictive practice (BALPA members only) is usually trying to ensure a vote in their favour, by excluding a large proportion of the workforce.

In the past I have worked for BALPA companies and once served a term upon a company council.
I am now no longer a member, having seen the real way that they operate and the self interest shown by the council members.

Most people think that BALPA will help the workforce by some black art just by chanting the word "BALPA" this is not the case.
Representation will achieve little or nothing through a confrontational management, and any benefits obtained will take longer than some members will care to wait.

BALPA are looking for scalps to add to their totum pole and more money in their coffers, as they are a business and need to show profit like any other company.
The few BALPA have helped are far out numbered by those they have let down.