RYANAIR thoughts
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
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the grim repa - as a secret admirer of your excellent work over many years, I can only commend you for your continued fight in the face of staggering foolishnesh. Reading some of these posts just blows my brain. There is none so blind as thems that will not see - nonetheless you need to persist. I simply refuse to believe that there are not a majority of pilots within the UK arm of Ryanair who do not want union recognition. Just reading Leo's posts should send anyone who can write their own name scurrying off to download a membership application form. As I have said before, magnificent and entertaining as he undoubtedly is, Leo is the most consistent pilot on PPruNe - he is consistently wrong on every single issue he speaks on. Sadly, his less educated acolytes who drool on his every word are notably less erudite in their discussions and even less informed - if such a thing were possible. I can only hope that there is a silent majority there in Ryanair who, when faced with a genuinely secret ballot, will actually step up to the plate. Keep up the good work.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Grim
Its so sad that because you appear to be on the side of a LOST cause that you have resorted to the infantile tactic of running a person down.
It is of little interest or concern to many about the previous existence of RSS, so kindly cut out this type of personal attack.
The fact that you are in a very vocal minority, who are now slinging mud shows us here how things will be should BALPA get into any position with Ryanair.
You have shown your true colours, and probably lost more support by doing so, than if you had kept to a reasoned argument.
There are more here posting that they do not want BALPA than the diehards who do.
Can you not get the message that there are more in favour of the current status quo than BALPA representation ?
Have you considered that some of those you fly with might just be agreeing with you so as to shut you up, having got very bored with your continual Bleating.
It takes a bigger man to admit he is wrong than to continually fight a loosing corner.
Take some advice back off for a year or two, then try again when the economy and airline fortunes improve.
Its so sad that because you appear to be on the side of a LOST cause that you have resorted to the infantile tactic of running a person down.
It is of little interest or concern to many about the previous existence of RSS, so kindly cut out this type of personal attack.
The fact that you are in a very vocal minority, who are now slinging mud shows us here how things will be should BALPA get into any position with Ryanair.
You have shown your true colours, and probably lost more support by doing so, than if you had kept to a reasoned argument.
There are more here posting that they do not want BALPA than the diehards who do.
Can you not get the message that there are more in favour of the current status quo than BALPA representation ?
Have you considered that some of those you fly with might just be agreeing with you so as to shut you up, having got very bored with your continual Bleating.
It takes a bigger man to admit he is wrong than to continually fight a loosing corner.
Take some advice back off for a year or two, then try again when the economy and airline fortunes improve.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Good post Day Dreamer. 
The changing of Handles on here in order to be insulting is not becoming of any of the posters status and certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Look guys, we all want the best rewards for our efforts in order to have a great life and provide for our loved ones. Working less hours and having more pay with a better pension pot would be great. The market decides what the remuneration for a Pilot is. A crude method yes, but time tested.
Ryanair state that they will not deal with unions. Simples!
The UK is but one country of half a dozen that Ryanair have bases in.
Any Ryanair crew room could be emptied before lunch and flown to another country to be fully set up in the afternoon. The passengers can be advised of time changes by email.
The cost of change is negligible. Is it right? Is it fair? Is it possible?
Just wait for BA, VA to start recruiting again and get yourselves the job you crave.
Grim, for what it's worth, your request for an answer to your questions of Slim would not be the ones that you want to read. Sorry, but that's the truth.
The changing of Handles on here in order to be insulting is not becoming of any of the posters status and certainly doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Look guys, we all want the best rewards for our efforts in order to have a great life and provide for our loved ones. Working less hours and having more pay with a better pension pot would be great. The market decides what the remuneration for a Pilot is. A crude method yes, but time tested.
Ryanair state that they will not deal with unions. Simples!
The UK is but one country of half a dozen that Ryanair have bases in.
Any Ryanair crew room could be emptied before lunch and flown to another country to be fully set up in the afternoon. The passengers can be advised of time changes by email.
The cost of change is negligible. Is it right? Is it fair? Is it possible?
Just wait for BA, VA to start recruiting again and get yourselves the job you crave.
Grim, for what it's worth, your request for an answer to your questions of Slim would not be the ones that you want to read. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Vexed
"I know from the guys and girls I fly with on the line that we are far better than that"
Yes you are better than that, BUT are you prepared to have an open vote of ALL pilots RYR and BRK as to their feelings towards a BALPA represented company ?
Also are you prepared to allow a base closure, which I feel will happen should say a smaller base vote for recognition ?
With the loss of Jobs all positions, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Engineers, Ground Staff etc along with the knock on effects to their families.
All this will be on the conscience of those voted yes, which will be more representative if ALL pilots were allowed to express their opinions, not just a select few.
It must be obvious to all who read this site that excluding a large and getting larger number of pilots from the vote is undemocratic, just because they are considered as contractors. (Another topic of discussion)
Your case would hold much more weight, if an open non partisan vote was to be carried out at each base.
Under these circumstances should a base vote for BALPA and subsequently be closed they collectively would only have themselves to blame.
BALPA are feeding you their data, which may or not have substance but from what I read and hear from many RYR pilots they will not risk their careers or the futures of their families for a few promises that things might improve / change in the future. (Nothing is immediate in the union world)
Now is not the time to go down this road, whilst no time is particularly a good time, the current economic climate and job market will not allow you (BALPA) to call the managements bluff, the cost is too great.
"I know from the guys and girls I fly with on the line that we are far better than that"
Yes you are better than that, BUT are you prepared to have an open vote of ALL pilots RYR and BRK as to their feelings towards a BALPA represented company ?
Also are you prepared to allow a base closure, which I feel will happen should say a smaller base vote for recognition ?
With the loss of Jobs all positions, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Engineers, Ground Staff etc along with the knock on effects to their families.
All this will be on the conscience of those voted yes, which will be more representative if ALL pilots were allowed to express their opinions, not just a select few.
It must be obvious to all who read this site that excluding a large and getting larger number of pilots from the vote is undemocratic, just because they are considered as contractors. (Another topic of discussion)
Your case would hold much more weight, if an open non partisan vote was to be carried out at each base.
Under these circumstances should a base vote for BALPA and subsequently be closed they collectively would only have themselves to blame.
BALPA are feeding you their data, which may or not have substance but from what I read and hear from many RYR pilots they will not risk their careers or the futures of their families for a few promises that things might improve / change in the future. (Nothing is immediate in the union world)
Now is not the time to go down this road, whilst no time is particularly a good time, the current economic climate and job market will not allow you (BALPA) to call the managements bluff, the cost is too great.
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No first wave departures from the UK and that will be no problem! Get a grip of yourself! Seriously! The company are making money so why the the hell would they get rid of the already established infrastructure and shift everyone elsewhere? Unlike the BRK guys there are loads of Ryanair guys in the UK and so under contract which means moving them will come to an expense! Hell I dont want to see Ryanair go under or have a drop in profit but for god sakes talk to us! Dont Just implement a programme of self destruction!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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5 Quid a shirt, 8 pence a mile. . what next ? the best paid pilots in Europe (I suppose 
)
At least try and sustain an unsustainable argument wıth 'vaguely' sustainable facts as a matter of courtesy to your audience.
)At least try and sustain an unsustainable argument wıth 'vaguely' sustainable facts as a matter of courtesy to your audience.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Vexed, this is perectly put.
And that shows how defenseless RYR (not to mention BRK pilots) are. They are at the mercy of reckless management.
We're talking about real people here. People with families, kids. And about a company with tons of cash and leading millionnaires telling staff they can be out at first cough, with its chain reaction of miserable lives for entire families.
Ryanair is a hot rod for BALPA, certainly not a lost issue.
And that shows how defenseless RYR (not to mention BRK pilots) are. They are at the mercy of reckless management.
We're talking about real people here. People with families, kids. And about a company with tons of cash and leading millionnaires telling staff they can be out at first cough, with its chain reaction of miserable lives for entire families.
Ryanair is a hot rod for BALPA, certainly not a lost issue.
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Unfrozen hole in the UK summer freeze.. didn't see that one coming! No, really!
Divide and Conquer... about 20+ direct entry rated captains from ex gone-bust airlines, mostly English, given STN as a base on permanent contract.
Let's all take that surprised face again! Lads, time to stop this! Now is the time, not tomorrow. BALPA - Home
If some of those new guys could enlighten us what their deal is (pay, roster, base), please share it here or pm. This is nothing personal but would love to know.
Any other info welcome, thanks.
Let's all take that surprised face again! Lads, time to stop this! Now is the time, not tomorrow. BALPA - Home
If some of those new guys could enlighten us what their deal is (pay, roster, base), please share it here or pm. This is nothing personal but would love to know.
Any other info welcome, thanks.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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captplaystation,
8p per mile - is exact. I have worked it out. As for which car I drive....its a secret but its fast and got great MPG!! £5 per pilot shirt, yup. You just have to look around.
Dannyalliga,
Yes there are 33 bases. Unfortunately the guys on here are only discussing 10 of them. Uk ones. No offence but if you were up for 24 hours travelling before your sim, thats your fault. I suggest either travelling at least a day before OR if this isnt possible, ringing Angela at EMA to sort it out. Ive never had a problem and they've always been more than helpful if its been a problem getting to EMA.
In regards to your last paragraph, I change my uniform too - but your missing the point. You make it sound like its some sort of monthly expense. Of course I buy new uniform, just not every month mate!
Oh and by the way, resorting to "i dont want to be like you" - Thats really cheered me up and made me laugh for a good 5 minutes!
Run back to your mummy my friend. This isnt the school playground. 
8p per mile - is exact. I have worked it out. As for which car I drive....its a secret but its fast and got great MPG!!
£5 per pilot shirt, yup. You just have to look around. Dannyalliga,
Yes there are 33 bases. Unfortunately the guys on here are only discussing 10 of them. Uk ones. No offence but if you were up for 24 hours travelling before your sim, thats your fault. I suggest either travelling at least a day before OR if this isnt possible, ringing Angela at EMA to sort it out. Ive never had a problem and they've always been more than helpful if its been a problem getting to EMA.
In regards to your last paragraph, I change my uniform too - but your missing the point. You make it sound like its some sort of monthly expense. Of course I buy new uniform, just not every month mate!
Oh and by the way, resorting to "i dont want to be like you" - Thats really cheered me up and made me laugh for a good 5 minutes!
Run back to your mummy my friend. This isnt the school playground.
8p per mile - is exact. I have worked it out.
This is what the AA publish:-
Motoring Costs
Unless maybe you're running a moped?
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Anyway......no matter what the cost we should not be paying for it, whether it's for uniform, travel, hotels on company time, phone calls while on duty to sort out a tech problem, medical and on and on.
Vote for a change in a positive way.
The alternative is the self centered slime way............
Vote for a change in a positive way.
The alternative is the self centered slime way............
Join Date: Oct 2004
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base closure/capacity reduction
Balpa will NOT close ryanair bases,economics will.
Recession to Hit Ryanair This Winter - GLG News
Before you get put on the transfer list.Protect yourself,Join BALPA,Vote for union recogntion!!!
Recession to Hit Ryanair This Winter - GLG News
Before you get put on the transfer list.Protect yourself,Join BALPA,Vote for union recogntion!!!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I'm a bit confused by some of the contents of Leo's - once again anonymous - anti union tirade. It says that BALPA are proud to have negotiated pay cuts in various airlines and on the back of that they invite more members. From what I hear the RYR pilots have taken significant cuts in T's & C's WITHOUT negotiations. It might be that those other airlines had forward thinking employees who would rather tighten belts to save jobs and share some pain. However, they were asked about it. From what is written on here the RYR pilots had a fait accompli to take a cut. The 2 qtrly losses which allowed such a move were not created by crews. They were working in the 105m euro profit making bit. The other loss making bit was firmly camped in mission control. Again: there was no discussion! I hear it was option 1 or 2 both decided by management, and if no choice was made you'd get whichever the bosses wanted to impose. How does that fall into the category of direct negotiations with employees?
Please enlighten us as to how poor/lacking communications and enforcement can be a good manner in which to conduct industrial relatons in 21st century. Once again please tell us which group of employees has conducted industrial sucide recently, and more specifically airline crews. Don't be so cras. And in airlines where CRM and transparency of decision making is thrust down our throats at every chance, and where it is considered absolutely wrong to conduct work planning in a dictatorial manner, I find it disappointing that a management, and some of its supporters, can advocate such a working enviroment so contrary to what they preach. A little less hypocrasy please.
Please enlighten us as to how poor/lacking communications and enforcement can be a good manner in which to conduct industrial relatons in 21st century. Once again please tell us which group of employees has conducted industrial sucide recently, and more specifically airline crews. Don't be so cras. And in airlines where CRM and transparency of decision making is thrust down our throats at every chance, and where it is considered absolutely wrong to conduct work planning in a dictatorial manner, I find it disappointing that a management, and some of its supporters, can advocate such a working enviroment so contrary to what they preach. A little less hypocrasy please.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Hypocracy
By now you should know that you won't get a rational answer from LEO or from MOL for that matter....
From a recent Ryanair Flight Safety bragging notice:
....Yet with Union recognition we are threatened with a flight safety busting change of rostering from fatigue mitigating to fatigue causing....
Go figure....
Hypocrites
From a recent Ryanair Flight Safety bragging notice:
The Ryanair roster pattern is recognised throughout Europe as the best in the industry. No other airline can offer a roster plan that includes scientifically proven fatigue mitigating features
Go figure....
Hypocrites
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Day Dreamer
So far, so tedious. I have explained this before but here goes -
Your 1st point - The law does not allow it, if you read the rest of the thread I posted a link which takes you to a precis of the law which states that the ballot for recognition will be within the bargaining unit ie RYR pilots.
Base closure? MOL also said they would be charging for toilets but I don't see it yet. I explain earlier in the thread why even he would not commit commercial suicide. No base will be able to be identified in the country wide secret ballot. Please read this several times until you understand.
ALL RYR pilots will be able to secretly express their view, just wont be BRK. This is because of a fact that may sit uncomfortably with you which is that RYR is not their employer, their contract of employment is with BRK, a registered contracting company which they state proudly on their website, Google it. Sorry to burst your bubble, you'll get over it. If you want to be that inclusive you could poll the pax as well. What you propose is illegal.
Why dont you anti union people just accept that you have run out of arguments and are retreading old ones?
BUT are you prepared to have an open vote of ALL pilots RYR and BRK as to their feelings towards a BALPA represented company ?
Also are you prepared to allow a base closure, which I feel will happen should say a smaller base vote for recognition ?
With the loss of Jobs all positions, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Engineers, Ground Staff etc along with the knock on effects to their families.
All this will be on the conscience of those voted yes, which will be more representative if ALL pilots were allowed to express their opinions, not just a select few.
It must be obvious to all who read this site that excluding a large and getting larger number of pilots from the vote is undemocratic, just because they are considered as contractors. (Another topic of discussion)
Your case would hold much more weight, if an open non partisan vote was to be carried out at each base.
Under these circumstances should a base vote for BALPA and subsequently be closed they collectively would only have themselves to blame.
Also are you prepared to allow a base closure, which I feel will happen should say a smaller base vote for recognition ?
With the loss of Jobs all positions, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Engineers, Ground Staff etc along with the knock on effects to their families.
All this will be on the conscience of those voted yes, which will be more representative if ALL pilots were allowed to express their opinions, not just a select few.
It must be obvious to all who read this site that excluding a large and getting larger number of pilots from the vote is undemocratic, just because they are considered as contractors. (Another topic of discussion)
Your case would hold much more weight, if an open non partisan vote was to be carried out at each base.
Under these circumstances should a base vote for BALPA and subsequently be closed they collectively would only have themselves to blame.
Base closure? MOL also said they would be charging for toilets but I don't see it yet. I explain earlier in the thread why even he would not commit commercial suicide. No base will be able to be identified in the country wide secret ballot. Please read this several times until you understand.
ALL RYR pilots will be able to secretly express their view, just wont be BRK. This is because of a fact that may sit uncomfortably with you which is that RYR is not their employer, their contract of employment is with BRK, a registered contracting company which they state proudly on their website, Google it. Sorry to burst your bubble, you'll get over it. If you want to be that inclusive you could poll the pax as well. What you propose is illegal.
Why dont you anti union people just accept that you have run out of arguments and are retreading old ones?
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al446,
BRS has 18 routes, 6 to other bases.
That allows the 6 bases to send an aircraft in to BRS first thing in the morning and W pattern to another 6 airports.
That's 12 of the 18 covered: the smaller destinations aren't served daily,hence 6 aircraft based elsewhere can W through BRS and cover all the existing routes.
Is that commercial suicide?
Base closure? MOL also said they would be charging for toilets but I don't see it yet. I explain earlier in the thread why even he would not commit commercial suicide.
That allows the 6 bases to send an aircraft in to BRS first thing in the morning and W pattern to another 6 airports.
That's 12 of the 18 covered: the smaller destinations aren't served daily,hence 6 aircraft based elsewhere can W through BRS and cover all the existing routes.
Is that commercial suicide?
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Yes yes yes, wıth the notable exceptıon of that partıcularly thorny thorn ın the sıde STN, he could probably, ın a fıt of 'toys out of pram rage', close them all.
But ıf ıt made sense to open them, then they would only be closed anyhow ıf they don't work commercıaly
. Or, are you really tellıng (threatenıng ) us that hıs overall bıg pıcture would allow hım to be so crass as to close profıtable bases just to make a poınt to the encumbent trotskys that he could ?
That would make the fuel hedgıng & ıll fated Lıngus adventure seem lıke mere lapses of reason, as opposed to totally losıng the plot. Threaten all you want, but untıl the ballot you won't know ıf people are actually prepared to take hıs threats serıously anymore. Personally, I thınk he may have crıed 'wolf' once too often, and the sackıng of JA smacked of the actıons of a desparate team who had to ınjure just to be awarded extra tıme.
But ıf ıt made sense to open them, then they would only be closed anyhow ıf they don't work commercıaly
. Or, are you really tellıng (threatenıng ) us that hıs overall bıg pıcture would allow hım to be so crass as to close profıtable bases just to make a poınt to the encumbent trotskys that he could ? That would make the fuel hedgıng & ıll fated Lıngus adventure seem lıke mere lapses of reason, as opposed to totally losıng the plot. Threaten all you want, but untıl the ballot you won't know ıf people are actually prepared to take hıs threats serıously anymore. Personally, I thınk he may have crıed 'wolf' once too often, and the sackıng of JA smacked of the actıons of a desparate team who had to ınjure just to be awarded extra tıme.
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Welcome back RSS
It's always nice for the cat to have a rodent to play with. I've missed you, honest.
What you say may work, it's theoretically possible, if you say so, but the tooth fairy may exist too. My point is, if you believe that you will believe any old crap that MOL feeds you. I posted previously as to why it was crap speculation on strategy - have a look at my previous posts. The board would not wear it and the claim of UK biggest airline goes down the swannee. No UK bases = non UK airline.
You posted a couple of things a few days back I would like to respond to. You questioned why I should post on this matter as I am not a pilot. I explained in my first post, I think, that I am not a pilot but was mightily sick of reading distortions and speculation dressed as fact and I tried to bring some sanity by introducing the reality of the law regarding the ballot, should it happen. I also stated that the union I am an activist for is Unison. As a union activist I am used to taking on big-mouths and bullies. I can also smell grease balls and company lickspittles from a distance. You were pushing misinformation on a publicly available board. I think that gives me the right to comment.
Regarding Unite, I am not a member and have no torch to carry but think that, looking at things objectively and reading some of the negative comments about BALPA, if they are genuine, that BALPA would be better teaming up with Unite. It would give them access to greater industrial expertise than any small union presently can access affordably. That was an observation, not peddling their cause as you implied.
I think you may also have conveniently forgotten that UK has the most pro-business labour laws in Europe and by moving staff to European bases the company would be going from the frying pan into the maelstrom.
Try to think before you post.
What you say may work, it's theoretically possible, if you say so, but the tooth fairy may exist too. My point is, if you believe that you will believe any old crap that MOL feeds you. I posted previously as to why it was crap speculation on strategy - have a look at my previous posts. The board would not wear it and the claim of UK biggest airline goes down the swannee. No UK bases = non UK airline.
You posted a couple of things a few days back I would like to respond to. You questioned why I should post on this matter as I am not a pilot. I explained in my first post, I think, that I am not a pilot but was mightily sick of reading distortions and speculation dressed as fact and I tried to bring some sanity by introducing the reality of the law regarding the ballot, should it happen. I also stated that the union I am an activist for is Unison. As a union activist I am used to taking on big-mouths and bullies. I can also smell grease balls and company lickspittles from a distance. You were pushing misinformation on a publicly available board. I think that gives me the right to comment.
Regarding Unite, I am not a member and have no torch to carry but think that, looking at things objectively and reading some of the negative comments about BALPA, if they are genuine, that BALPA would be better teaming up with Unite. It would give them access to greater industrial expertise than any small union presently can access affordably. That was an observation, not peddling their cause as you implied.
I think you may also have conveniently forgotten that UK has the most pro-business labour laws in Europe and by moving staff to European bases the company would be going from the frying pan into the maelstrom.
Try to think before you post.