RYANAIR thoughts
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
beaver,
I'm sure you are. I can't fly an airplane at all.
However If you must go down that road, i'm sure i know what to do, should a pax have a say, heart attack, better than you. Same goes for all the other emergency situations that may happen in the cabin.
So you stick to what you (maybe?) do best and i'll stick to what i do best at work. No need to parade your skills or stripes, i fully understand and respect the years, money and study you put into your career.
Capisci?
I'm sure you are. I can't fly an airplane at all.
However If you must go down that road, i'm sure i know what to do, should a pax have a say, heart attack, better than you. Same goes for all the other emergency situations that may happen in the cabin.
So you stick to what you (maybe?) do best and i'll stick to what i do best at work. No need to parade your skills or stripes, i fully understand and respect the years, money and study you put into your career.
Capisci?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
deja vu again?
How very unpleasant and tedious this seasonal event has become, much like the Ryanair threads of late 2008, and the thread of early 2008, and the thread of late 2007, in fact right back to the birth of PPrune! Polarised and opposite views are written by the same people again and again and again and again.
Pathetic.
Result: the same as always...........no progress in either direction, status quo reigns and still MOL's door hasn't been kicked in by any union, nor will it ever be.
Pathetic.
Result: the same as always...........no progress in either direction, status quo reigns and still MOL's door hasn't been kicked in by any union, nor will it ever be.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a bit odd that people accepted the worst Ts and Cs around to get a job and then complain about how bad their lots is. Has Ryanair got worse or was it always the worst employer around. The company is only doing so well because you all work for so little and other airlines just can't compete.
Lets face it if Ryanair crews had better offers of employment they'd be there already wouldn't they?
Nobody actually wanted to work for grubby Ryanair when they started out in their dream to be a pilot. All the hosties appear to be eastern Europeans who couldn't get a job working in the local travelodge.
I hope you all manage to improve your lot so that better employers have somewhere higher to aim when they look at where the bottom is.
Lets face it if Ryanair crews had better offers of employment they'd be there already wouldn't they?
Nobody actually wanted to work for grubby Ryanair when they started out in their dream to be a pilot. All the hosties appear to be eastern Europeans who couldn't get a job working in the local travelodge.
I hope you all manage to improve your lot so that better employers have somewhere higher to aim when they look at where the bottom is.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not surprised you don't like those flightsim guys, unlike you they don't have to pay for their own interview/training/sim check/uniform/food/I.D./car park pass/base move/medicals/healthcare/holidays/pension etc etc
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Where the company needs me not where I want to be!
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quiteright button boy
nor do they fly planes! lol
do you get excited when you see old versions of the arcade game Afterburner! lol must be like seeing a fresh 18year old hostie to you
nor do they fly planes! lol
do you get excited when you see old versions of the arcade game Afterburner! lol must be like seeing a fresh 18year old hostie to you
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Devon
Age: 46
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trolling or not, like it or not.
Button Boy is correct.
I fyou want to find the lowest pay terms conditions and respect from management to its work force, people do bench mark from Ryanair.
If you want find the most spineless group with the lowest self respect for their proffesion look no further than ryanair.
If you want to find the airline with the most staff happy to stab each other in teh back for a small amount extra (i.e. not as big a pay cut) look no further than ryanair.
Before you get on your high horse about what would I know, Slim Shady, I am a RYR pilot, and am, utterly ashamed of us as a group. Half the pilots that deal with the company on pay deals that think its not so bad, should be banned from every doing the take off performance calculations.
No wonder we have so many gross error checks in the SOP's so many of us cant do basic arithmatic. (Yes my spelling is not the best, I am not paid to spell I am paid to fly).
To the comment about first aid, how bloody arogant you are, to assume you in all cases more than the Flight Deck.
No flight deck member would ever assume the reverse, however for first aid I can tell you one thing, I am a St Johns first Examiner and a pilot. Now tell me your First Aid knwoledge is better than mine ??
You lot all need to think with a clearer head, your all to involved and up your own backsides. This is about pure respect, its not about BALPA comign to RYR, they are here beacuse and only becuase the pilots, not all admitedly but some actually asked them to come.
BALPA are not a third party they act on what we as a group ask them to.
Terms and conditions go down ? Yeah your right they do, under BALPA they would hopefully go down less or maybe increase. LEave to RYR they will always go down.
Who here remembers the recent memo on Sector Pay and the HMRC investigation to determine new agreements ?
How many of you actually think being based in one place and always returning there actually entitles you to any allowance at all.
Office workers dont claim for cleaning their shirts and trousers so why should we be able to.
They take lunch to work without claiming so why should we be allowed to.
Think about all those things then tell me there isnt a real terms pay cut on the way.
Yes we all know who the management members are that post here, or who their lap dogs are. Were not stupid we know you will do whatever it takes to protect your over inflated bonuses, wages and develop your ever growing ego's.
Just remember at some point you will hit critical mass and at that point people will start to wonder why bother with all the responsibility when they can go else where.
Slim etc you can argue with my post all you want, your opinion has been taken on board, I dont agree with you. If RYR want to close a base they will do no matter what I suppose you want to be paid for relocation when they close it for commercial reasons ? or you happy at the moment just blame your colleagues for wanting a bit more respect in the workplace ?
This is my first and only post here, I trust I put my point across.
BALPA, T&G or a union of some description christ even if its just an internal union set up by us and run by us, ngotiating on our behalf has to be the way to go.
If we all stick together as one, there is absolutely nothing RYR can do to us.
They cant sack all the pilots and replace them overnight, it is physically impossible, are you all really so nieve you cant see that ?
Button Boy is correct.
I fyou want to find the lowest pay terms conditions and respect from management to its work force, people do bench mark from Ryanair.
If you want find the most spineless group with the lowest self respect for their proffesion look no further than ryanair.
If you want to find the airline with the most staff happy to stab each other in teh back for a small amount extra (i.e. not as big a pay cut) look no further than ryanair.
Before you get on your high horse about what would I know, Slim Shady, I am a RYR pilot, and am, utterly ashamed of us as a group. Half the pilots that deal with the company on pay deals that think its not so bad, should be banned from every doing the take off performance calculations.
No wonder we have so many gross error checks in the SOP's so many of us cant do basic arithmatic. (Yes my spelling is not the best, I am not paid to spell I am paid to fly).
To the comment about first aid, how bloody arogant you are, to assume you in all cases more than the Flight Deck.
No flight deck member would ever assume the reverse, however for first aid I can tell you one thing, I am a St Johns first Examiner and a pilot. Now tell me your First Aid knwoledge is better than mine ??
You lot all need to think with a clearer head, your all to involved and up your own backsides. This is about pure respect, its not about BALPA comign to RYR, they are here beacuse and only becuase the pilots, not all admitedly but some actually asked them to come.
BALPA are not a third party they act on what we as a group ask them to.
Terms and conditions go down ? Yeah your right they do, under BALPA they would hopefully go down less or maybe increase. LEave to RYR they will always go down.
Who here remembers the recent memo on Sector Pay and the HMRC investigation to determine new agreements ?
How many of you actually think being based in one place and always returning there actually entitles you to any allowance at all.
Office workers dont claim for cleaning their shirts and trousers so why should we be able to.
They take lunch to work without claiming so why should we be allowed to.
Think about all those things then tell me there isnt a real terms pay cut on the way.
Yes we all know who the management members are that post here, or who their lap dogs are. Were not stupid we know you will do whatever it takes to protect your over inflated bonuses, wages and develop your ever growing ego's.
Just remember at some point you will hit critical mass and at that point people will start to wonder why bother with all the responsibility when they can go else where.
Slim etc you can argue with my post all you want, your opinion has been taken on board, I dont agree with you. If RYR want to close a base they will do no matter what I suppose you want to be paid for relocation when they close it for commercial reasons ? or you happy at the moment just blame your colleagues for wanting a bit more respect in the workplace ?
This is my first and only post here, I trust I put my point across.
BALPA, T&G or a union of some description christ even if its just an internal union set up by us and run by us, ngotiating on our behalf has to be the way to go.
If we all stick together as one, there is absolutely nothing RYR can do to us.
They cant sack all the pilots and replace them overnight, it is physically impossible, are you all really so nieve you cant see that ?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You need gross error checks to make certain that the computer and all the automated systems are correct: automation, remember, is dutifully dumb.
We are moving away now, in every airline, from pilots who were brought up on steam driven instrumentation, doing mental gymnastics to navigate, calculate fuel usage and project to final fuel, plan descents etc.
The "playstation generation" doesn't necessarily have that ability to mental math as we do: it has nothing to do with Ryanair, and everything to do with technological changes and educational changes.
We are moving away now, in every airline, from pilots who were brought up on steam driven instrumentation, doing mental gymnastics to navigate, calculate fuel usage and project to final fuel, plan descents etc.
The "playstation generation" doesn't necessarily have that ability to mental math as we do: it has nothing to do with Ryanair, and everything to do with technological changes and educational changes.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North West
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So this is all about Respect !!!
What a load of utter tripe and waffle.
BALPA is not there to get you respect, respect is something thats earned not just given.
If those seeking BALPA recognition were not just out to obtain their own personal self satisfaction, and massage their "EGO'S" they would stop and think about others and not just themselves.
There are deeper issues here, one of which seems to be the BRK / RYR relationship.
You share the same flight deck, and have the same career goals, yet the RYR brigade refuse to let a large proportion of the workforce, have its say in recognition, either because they are frightened of loosing, or because big brother BALPA said "NO"
You think you will get improvements in T&C's with BALPA at the helm, this is total hogwash, BALPA have done less for the independent sector than if they had not represented the company over the past few years, and with confrontational management, they can and will do nothing,
Strike action has been mentioned here, well there are enough non union guys and girls out there to walk right past you and operate those flights, while you sit by a brazier with your career going up in flames.
Do you think any recruiter wants strikers on their team "NO".
Once a trouble maker makes his / her mark in the industry they might as well tear up that little green book and add that to the flames of their lost career.
Your only way of achieving success is total cohesion as a workforce something which today we find very little of in this industry.
Those who Bleet BALPA BALPA BALPA should look for the big picture and include all their colleagues not just a die hard few.
RYR has been the European leader in Low Cost operations but long before they got established other operators were already charging for training and giving minimum salaries, this did not start with RYR, nor the down turn in T&C's but because RYR are always in the public eye (Free publicity is always good publicity) people needed a bogey man to blame (Enter MOL stage right).
To the BALPA die hards on here Grow up, or get out of RYR (If anyone else will have you) better still leave aviation, and its running to those who know how, its certainly NOT BALPA.
What a load of utter tripe and waffle.
BALPA is not there to get you respect, respect is something thats earned not just given.
If those seeking BALPA recognition were not just out to obtain their own personal self satisfaction, and massage their "EGO'S" they would stop and think about others and not just themselves.
There are deeper issues here, one of which seems to be the BRK / RYR relationship.
You share the same flight deck, and have the same career goals, yet the RYR brigade refuse to let a large proportion of the workforce, have its say in recognition, either because they are frightened of loosing, or because big brother BALPA said "NO"
You think you will get improvements in T&C's with BALPA at the helm, this is total hogwash, BALPA have done less for the independent sector than if they had not represented the company over the past few years, and with confrontational management, they can and will do nothing,
Strike action has been mentioned here, well there are enough non union guys and girls out there to walk right past you and operate those flights, while you sit by a brazier with your career going up in flames.
Do you think any recruiter wants strikers on their team "NO".
Once a trouble maker makes his / her mark in the industry they might as well tear up that little green book and add that to the flames of their lost career.
Your only way of achieving success is total cohesion as a workforce something which today we find very little of in this industry.
Those who Bleet BALPA BALPA BALPA should look for the big picture and include all their colleagues not just a die hard few.
RYR has been the European leader in Low Cost operations but long before they got established other operators were already charging for training and giving minimum salaries, this did not start with RYR, nor the down turn in T&C's but because RYR are always in the public eye (Free publicity is always good publicity) people needed a bogey man to blame (Enter MOL stage right).
To the BALPA die hards on here Grow up, or get out of RYR (If anyone else will have you) better still leave aviation, and its running to those who know how, its certainly NOT BALPA.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lies, Damn Lies and BALPA Bullsh1t
However, we understand that in one base, a captain has been
canvassing for anti-Dignity & Respect support entirely in company
time, which could be a distraction from his principle duties (and a
flight safety issue) that could lead to a case of gross misconduct if
reported to the senior management. If the captain in question was a
member we could provide him with support if he falls foul of the
wrath of senior management, but we do not expect any action to be
taken against him (not that we are suggesting there are double
standards!)
canvassing for anti-Dignity & Respect support entirely in company
time, which could be a distraction from his principle duties (and a
flight safety issue) that could lead to a case of gross misconduct if
reported to the senior management. If the captain in question was a
member we could provide him with support if he falls foul of the
wrath of senior management, but we do not expect any action to be
taken against him (not that we are suggesting there are double
standards!)
The only distraction to any UK based Ryanair pilot( and a Flight Safety issue) is the sheer arrogance of BALPA and their reckless pursuit of a political victory at the expense of our jobs and the jobs of our colleagues.
BALPA will not pay your mortgage: BALPA will not put the food on the table for your kids. Vote NO and avoid having your dignity and respect flattened in the Job Centre.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In a house
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whats the difference between sitting next a pro-BALPA guy harping on about the good old days or an anti-union guy spurting management bull$hit all day?
There is none really, except you get sacked for one and not the other.
And in your own words....
Boring again?
YAWN
There is none really, except you get sacked for one and not the other.
And in your own words....
Boring again?
YAWN
Last edited by SD.; 8th Jul 2009 at 15:53.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: One hump; two if you're pretty.
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RYR pilots reject BLAPA in droves.
From today's poorly written and rather desperate BLAPA newsletter.....
But you can be sure they won't take no for an answer. Cancer is not so easily disposed of, but must be by means fair or foul.
In the very next sentence, then, it comes as no surprise to read.....
I think your stupidity has effected your understanding of outright rejection. Just what part of NO do you not comprehend, BLAPA?
Oh really? You screwed the pooch back in '05 when we the pilots told you to piss off, and now you're back again. Would not wish to impose anything, my hairy arse. You people have raised bull**** and hypocrisy to an art form.
The base closure and dismissals soon to be announced are in response to you, BLAPA, and only you, in direct answer to you pedalling your worthless, corrupt, incompetent organisation of slippery political apparatchiks on pilots lacking in experience and perspective to know you for what you really are.
When hundreds are thrown on the pyre in a demonstration of who the daddy really is at Ryanair, BLAPA will have professional blood on their hands, and not for the first time. For those of you who still think BLAPA worth the oxygen and energy they steal, despite a library of evidence to the contrary, I would encourage you to observe their response to your impending misfortune. Rather revealing, I predict. They do not give a **** about you, only in the maintenance and expansion of their turgid organisation of short, small-
has-beens.
OFF BLAPA.
In the interest of transparency and honesty it is with regret that we
inform you that pilots from Bournemouth, Belfast and Prestwick have
advised BALPA that they do not wish to be represented by a union.
inform you that pilots from Bournemouth, Belfast and Prestwick have
advised BALPA that they do not wish to be represented by a union.
In the very next sentence, then, it comes as no surprise to read.....
We, of course, respect their position, but I think the anti-BALPA
propaganda has affected their understanding of the process.
propaganda has affected their understanding of the process.
It is BALPA’s view that we would not wish to impose anything against the will of the majority.
The base closure and dismissals soon to be announced are in response to you, BLAPA, and only you, in direct answer to you pedalling your worthless, corrupt, incompetent organisation of slippery political apparatchiks on pilots lacking in experience and perspective to know you for what you really are.
When hundreds are thrown on the pyre in a demonstration of who the daddy really is at Ryanair, BLAPA will have professional blood on their hands, and not for the first time. For those of you who still think BLAPA worth the oxygen and energy they steal, despite a library of evidence to the contrary, I would encourage you to observe their response to your impending misfortune. Rather revealing, I predict. They do not give a **** about you, only in the maintenance and expansion of their turgid organisation of short, small-
has-beens. OFF BLAPA.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmondshire
Age: 66
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it astounding that in this day and age a major international company can cajole and corral a professional workgroup into giving up their legally permitted right to collective representation by means of abuse, threats and lies.
If there are any journos reading this, there is a news story here for you. The mill owner mentality is still present in the 21st century.
If there are any journos reading this, there is a news story here for you. The mill owner mentality is still present in the 21st century.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: England
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
We, of course, respect their position, but I think the anti-BALPA propaganda has affected their understanding of the process.
Ryanair have many pilots, who, from previous experience, have seen the workings of Balpa. The vast majority of us have seen how destructive and manipulative this union representation can be.
We, of course, respect their position, but I think the anti-BALPA propaganda has affected their understanding of the process.
Ryanair have many pilots, who, from previous experience, have seen the workings of Balpa. The vast majority of us have seen how destructive and manipulative this union representation can be.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Leo, if what you say is true, and indeed why not ? sometimes (like all of us ) you talk crap, but you don't normally lie, what we discussed by PM may well come to pass. Pearls cast to swine ? or swine in the company of pearls. . . . .you know, I'm not so sure 
Quelle Bordel ! ! ! 
(with apologies for my spelling in French)
What a bunch of blithering idiots / nincompoops & limp wristed prats inhabit the cockpits of Boeings.
Faced with a clear (?) choice of having your terms and conditions reduced year by year as a result of increasing profit, or being represented by a union whose "headline claim" was to somehow help you to find your dignity & respect (Er, we are talking simple souls here what about the money ? ) what have you , the plantlife with ATPL's chosen ? ? Duh 
can I ask the audience ? Er no, why don't you just ask your Base Capt dolt 
So, an entirely predictable non event ensued (probably
) courtesy of entirely unthinking /unseeing idiots in charge of Boeings, guided by greedy managers (or aspiring managers) and a somewhat feckless union campaign. Well, well done to all, thanks very much, net result in all probability the square root of f@ck all.
Thank Christ I am a generation older than the brain dead that populate the Ryanair cockpits these days.
I am ashamed of you BOH/BHD & (horror of horrors ! ) my fellow Jocks in PIK.
WTF did you have to lose ? well chaps, you are about to find out, congratulations on your choice 
Quelle Bordel ! ! !
(with apologies for my spelling in French)What a bunch of blithering idiots / nincompoops & limp wristed prats inhabit the cockpits of Boeings.
Faced with a clear (?) choice of having your terms and conditions reduced year by year as a result of increasing profit, or being represented by a union whose "headline claim" was to somehow help you to find your dignity & respect (Er, we are talking simple souls here what about the money ?
) what have you , the plantlife with ATPL's chosen ? ? Duh can I ask the audience ? Er no, why don't you just ask your Base Capt dolt So, an entirely predictable non event ensued (probably
) courtesy of entirely unthinking /unseeing idiots in charge of Boeings, guided by greedy managers (or aspiring managers) and a somewhat feckless union campaign. Well, well done to all, thanks very much, net result in all probability the square root of f@ck all.Thank Christ I am a generation older than the brain dead that populate the Ryanair cockpits these days.
I am ashamed of you BOH/BHD & (horror of horrors !
) my fellow Jocks in PIK. WTF did you have to lose ? well chaps, you are about to find out, congratulations on your choice
Last edited by captplaystation; 8th Jul 2009 at 21:48.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: south england
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A quick question (or 2 for those anti Balpa) ......
Where do you see your T & C's / working lifestyle in 10 years if nothing changes within Ryanair?
Balpa may well not be the answer for Ryanair, but if the answer to the above question does not bare thinking about, what would help you all as a professional body?
There are clearly some great aspects to working for Ryanair, otherwise I am sure you would not be working for them (or you would stand together and try and improve conditions). Are there any procedures/agreements in place that could prevent your management from changing some of the better aspects of your job at their whim.
Where do you see your T & C's / working lifestyle in 10 years if nothing changes within Ryanair?
Balpa may well not be the answer for Ryanair, but if the answer to the above question does not bare thinking about, what would help you all as a professional body?
There are clearly some great aspects to working for Ryanair, otherwise I am sure you would not be working for them (or you would stand together and try and improve conditions). Are there any procedures/agreements in place that could prevent your management from changing some of the better aspects of your job at their whim.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North West
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 Bases with sense have voted to stop this Lemmings dash to self destruction,
Now its time for the Diehards to reconsider their positions, you are NOT going to win.
Your arguements nolonger hold weight with your colleagues, small bases though they may be, but they had a choice and made it, even without their BRK colleagues.
Shall we now see how EMA, LTN, LPL and EDI decide for example, who will be the next group to write to BALPA.
Remember its the will of the majority and that should include BRK.
Its no use having just one base voting for BALPA especially a smaller one as it WILL be closed as an example to you all.
Those with BALL's have stood up and been heard.
Now its time for the Diehards to reconsider their positions, you are NOT going to win.
Your arguements nolonger hold weight with your colleagues, small bases though they may be, but they had a choice and made it, even without their BRK colleagues.
Shall we now see how EMA, LTN, LPL and EDI decide for example, who will be the next group to write to BALPA.
Remember its the will of the majority and that should include BRK.
Its no use having just one base voting for BALPA especially a smaller one as it WILL be closed as an example to you all.
Those with BALL's have stood up and been heard.