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Forced unpaid leave at ryanair

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Forced unpaid leave at ryanair

Old 26th Sep 2008, 00:41
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Gentlemen....very sad indeed.....the bashing/the moral/the state of our industry.

Dont get too personal chaps...
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 00:50
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
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Its reality

As Finance Director of a company in a totally different industry... You guys are all bright enough to do equations. But you're lucky, you don't have to do them. It's that Dickens thing - income is 20 shillings and sixpence = happiness, otherwise not. And for the FD, or management, they have to make some ruthless decisions. Which simply put translate into forced unpaid leave or redundancies.

It's not a failed business model, as some have said. Its the combination of high fuel prices, a knackered world economy, banks that suddenly find it difficult to lend, and shareholders who would rather not stump up more money.

It restricts the choices a tad!
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 07:26
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Imminent boner!
You are making my little bonner shrink to little bitts! And it was small enought to start with!!!!!!
Dont be so nice and undestanding, it is really not neccesary, but actually a big kick in the BULLOCKS!
A bit of respect would be good.
Pilots should not be a seasonal bussiness, after all we do have lives, obligations and mortgages.
The price of leasing airplanes doesn't go down seasonaly, why should pilot salaries?
If a company wants to give flights out for free, its not our problem! Everything should reach its fair point and giving out 1p flights while laying people off is definately not the right path!!!!!! PLEASE DONT JUSTIFY IT !!!!
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 11:57
  #124 (permalink)  
CaptKremin
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Rubik101 and Captplaystation - I'm new to this thread, but have seen your work on other 'Ryanair threads'. You two boys sure put a helluva lot of effort into convincing your colleagues that their situation is hopeless, and that they are defeated.

You may well feel that way, depression is a common enough illness, and often caused by stress at work. There is treatment available and I would recommend you seek the advice of a psychologist if you feel desperate.

On the other hand, you may simply be working an agenda to demoralise your colleagues. Whose agenda that is - we can only guess at.

My advice to you would be as follows.
Spend less time on the internet. Or at least on PPRuNe in particular. It isn't helping your mental health, and it isn't helping your colleagues work through the problems they face.

Lets be honest though, if you put as much energy into supporting your colleagues as you do into dragging them down, you'd probably do some good, and you might even feel better in yourself.
 
Old 27th Sep 2008, 12:30
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,349
Grrr

Been there done that, I have been at REPA meetings at a fairly large base where only a handful turned up,and some of those could have been management stoogies sussing it out for all I know. I have never been apathetic to our dilemna, but I sure as hell have not been of a mind to throw myself on the sacrificial sword for a bunch of guys who give every indication of not giving a [email protected]
If you want to step up to the mantle feel free, but don't question the motivation or agenda of those of us who may have tried for a bit longer than you ,but sadly had their eyes opened by how far it got us ( or not).
I am all for rallying the troops, but building up false hopes,only to see it crash and burn is a big demotivator for the future, as was shown by the labour court/victimisation claim saga. Look at what others who were more intimately& financially involved in that saga have posted, many of them have given up / become line trainers / simply left. . why ? because they didn't have the big gonads that you seem to feel you posess? NO, they just got fed up of beating their head against a brick wall and moved on to a less punishing agenda. But keep on as you are, and come back to us in 5 years & let us know if you achieved what you wished. I don't expect to have any real progress/news any sooner, but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 13:28
  #126 (permalink)  
CaptKremin
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Been there done that, I have been at REPA meetings at a fairly large base where only a handful turned up,and some of those could have been management stoogies sussing it out for all I know.
Given the terrorism in Ryanair I'm not surprised if meetings are badly attended. The solution is to root out terrorism - not to give up and surrender.

I have never been apathetic to our dilemna, but I sure as hell have not been of a mind to throw myself on the sacrificial sword for a bunch of guys who give every indication of not giving a [email protected]
Negative mindset and negative language is not helpful and won't contribute to the solution.

If you want to step up to the mantle feel free, but don't question the motivation or agenda of those of us who may have tried for a bit longer than you ,but sadly had their eyes opened by how far it got us ( or not).
You don't know me, yet you cast aspertions on my comittment. I can assure you that I'vce been involved in the union movement a lot longer than you've been a member of Ryanair.

I am all for rallying the troops, but building up false hopes,only to see it crash and burn is a big demotivator for the future, as was shown by the labour court/victimisation claim saga.
More despair and defeatism.
What is really your motivation? Why do you feel the need to run your two man crusade against a union if your fellow pilots choose to have one?

If your colleagues don't give a [email protected], about you, as you say, why do you give a [email protected] about them, whether they choose to join a union or not?
You seek to portray yourself as altruistic toward them, yet you use abusive language to describe them. Are you simply experiencing personal feelings of rejection? Or do you simply prefer the Status Quo? Would you prefer if the boat doesn't get rocked?

Look at what others who were more intimately& financially involved in that saga have posted, many of them have given up / become line trainers / simply left. . why ? because they didn't have the big gonads that you seem to feel you posess? NO, they just got fed up of beating their head against a brick wall and moved on to a less punishing agenda. But keep on as you are, and come back to us in 5 years & let us know if you achieved what you wished. I don't expect to have any real progress/news any sooner, but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
The best way for you to assist progress (if thats what you really want) would be to crawl off somewhere and die. Take Rubik with you.
 
Old 27th Sep 2008, 14:30
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,349
You are ,sadly, even more abrasive than Ryanair, and suffer a similar degree of tunnel vision when anyone questions your narrow focussed view of reality. You sound like the kind of chap who is up for a fight, keep looking behind you at regular intervals to see how many are there to reinforce you, lest you enter the fray unaccompanied.
You are obviously unable, or unwilling to read & understand what I write. There is nothing I would like to see better than union involvement in RYR, I just don't believe it's likely to happen any time soon. Instead of shouting, try to read & understand that others may also have valid views. . . . Oh ,and put down those political text books more often and look at how those around you react ( or not in most cases) to what is forced upon them. Try to open your eyes and join the rest of us in the real world as a first step, and once you have assimilated the real situation you can maybe find a way to change it. Just spouting venom & rhetoric in the direction of anyone who questions your view of the world is hardly likely to convince anyone of your capabilities or good intentions.
I assume you did a CRM course at some stage, I strongly suggest you apply for a refund.
I shudder to think what you must be like to share 4 sectors with.

Last edited by captplaystation; 27th Sep 2008 at 16:34.
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 16:50
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing exemplifies the power and stupidity of unions more than the crisis at Alitalia.

I've been there,seen it, done it, had the baseball bat stuffed up our collective ar*e* by union reps feathering their own nests at the expense of others. Repa and his chums have their own agendas: the rest of us have ours. If they don't follow the same paths, so be it. Just stop shouting off and criticising people for exercising their democratic choice.
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 17:08
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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CaptainKretin, how very ignorant, violent and crude to wish a fellow human being to 'crawl off somewhere and die'. Your karma must be shot to shit mate.
Some of us are realists, but you, along with a few others, are ranting, ignorant, and bone-headed in the short-sighted pursuit of your own agenda. It is a shame that you never seem to actaully understand what is written, merely attach your own interpretation of the words and then write a fairly pointless piece of rhetoric.

Not once have I or Captplaystation or any others advocated giving up on the unionisation of Ryanair; we have merely pointed out the facts, things that you seem to take very little notice thereof.

You are a sad individual Kremin.

When you lead the Mighty Union over the parapet to ultimate victory over the despised capitalist, the rich and wretched MOL, I will write and congratulate you, until then, just carry on with your moronic and violent rantings, wasting all our time.
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 17:15
  #130 (permalink)  
CaptKremin
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Nothing exemplifies the power and stupidity of unions more than the crisis at Alitalia.
I hear the pilots union has accepted the rescue deal. I don't know the details yet, but if we discover that their refusal to take their shafting on day 1 (as you recommend) has resulted in an improvement in their situation - I guess you'll have to eat your words, eh?

And whatever the deal - please notice - Alitalia has not collapsed, folded, failed, or wound up.

Your scare-mongering is self defeatist. There's a lot of it about.

Which reminds me, Playstation - perhaps I was too harsh. Let me re-phrase.

Thank you for your past service, if you have nothing further to offer we regret to see you go, but these times call for Fortitude and Leadership, so allow the new batch to get on with the job - and enjoy your retirement.
 
Old 27th Sep 2008, 17:40
  #131 (permalink)  
CaptKremin
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Ahh, boobik101, our posts crossed. Don't mean to ignore you.

CaptainKretin, how very ignorant, violent and crude to wish a fellow human being to 'crawl off somewhere and die'. Your karma must be shot to shit mate.
Oh you scurrilous little hypocrite!
Recognise these comments?..."a prat, a moron, an idiot, a scumbag, a filthy braindead Ozzie feckwit..." written in post 92 of this very thread, by YOU. Thats a nice way to talk about someone - and then have the gall to censure others? Get off the stage you fool.

Some of us are realists, but you, along with a few others, are ranting, ignorant, and bone-headed in the short-sighted pursuit of your own agenda. It is a shame that you never seem to actaully understand what is written, merely attach your own interpretation of the words and then write a fairly pointless piece of rhetoric.
Well we all have agendas around here it seems.
Yours is to look after yourself and fark the rest.

Not once have I or Captplaystation or any others advocated giving up on the unionisation of Ryanair; we have merely pointed out the facts, things that you seem to take very little notice thereof.
Things like----"It's a waste of time! You're all doomed, DOOMED I TELL YA!!"
That kind of thing?
Why effin bother matey? Move along.

You are a sad individual Kremin.
Actually I'm not sad at all. I'm quite happy. I'm in a union and I'm paid twice what you make, thanks to my union.

Carry on bending over and telling me I'm sad...you eejit! Maybe it'll make you feel better about yourself.

When you lead the Mighty Union over the parapet to ultimate victory over the despised capitalist, the rich and wretched MOL, I will write and congratulate you, until then, just carry on with your moronic and violent rantings, wasting all our time.
I won't be waiting on letters of thanks from a corporate shill like you. You'll be crying in your cornflakes. You are O'Learys second largest lapdog.
Woof Woof!
 
Old 27th Sep 2008, 18:03
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 99
Yes, it looks like the Alitalia pilots have snatched victory from what everyone thought would be the jaws of defeat. They have read the game correctly and they have seen off Berlusconi's little attempt to enrich his friends and ultimately himself at the workers' expense.
What an outstanding demonstration of how much can be achieved if you believe in the power of unity and have the moral strength to resist those who try to convince you that you cannot win. Unity is strength and strength is power.
Lucky for them they didn't have the likes of rubik, captplaystation et el in their ranks.
Kremin has a very good point. If you feel defeated please don't expend your energy trying to persuade others that they are defeated too. It is the most destructive form of self indulgence.
''If you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing".
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 19:01
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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So Kremin, you are in a union and earning twice what rubik makes courtesy of aforesaid union. Well, you quite obviously don't work for our delightful MOL then, so at least we know why you have **** all idea of how life is in "planet ryanair", how to fix it, and why it hasn't been fixed. You are therefore excused your ignorance of the subject, if not of your abject inability to be civil to anyone who dares to disagree with your assesment of the situation.
Does having union representation also absolve you from keeping your cool when you don't get your own way, or from having to take other opinions into account in your decision making ?
Edited to say, I see from your previous postings that you appear to work for that little airline down the road that RYR have a large interest in.
Far from asking me, as you did , to respect my colleagues and their right to be in a union ( which I do) perhaps you could let us know what exactly is your interest in this debate about the " useless tossers in Ryanair who shouldn't be getting any of my IALPA money" as you so succintly put it in your posting of 11th Jan.
I know my interest in this discussion, perhaps you would like to explain your somewhat bizarre involvement in it. Or is it just fear that next time Micky makes a play fer ya you will end up in the same sh1t as us, now that could be it, indeed it could.

Last edited by captplaystation; 27th Sep 2008 at 19:18.
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 19:32
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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i think it is time to hang up the handbags and agree to disagree on this very emotive issue on this thread.it is just going around in circles.i am a union person and wish to better the lives of myself and my fellow workers.there are fundamental differences between all the posters here.if you have any fight left in you or have not given up hope of a long term future in aviation,then fight on and hold your head up high.if in the other weaker camp,then do what you wish.my advise for what it is worth,is for those pro union/pro future to desist from posting on this thread any longer and devote their energies to the good work that DOES every day progress on our behalf and let those who be run over to their own devices.

to thine own self be true!rock bottom is not just another rung on the ladder downward.

semper fidelis!!!
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Old 28th Sep 2008, 13:20
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Ok,so a union is not going to sort this out,what about your employee rep's? im sure the pilots in FR have one,the same guys who spent so much time and effort negotiating an excellent pay deal ( ), were are they now,hiding under the covers? these shold be the guys going to the company and getting some clarification on exacly what forced unpaid leave is , 1 day,1 week or 1 month,and then talking to the pilots, they get paid to be a rep, so do some ef'in work.
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Old 28th Sep 2008, 20:27
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 258
Why don't all the pilots take unpaid leave for 1 week (at the same time), I am sure the effect will result in the sacking of MOL and will be of great benefit to the whole of the aviation community!

Wasn't it behaviour of this very sort that gave birth to the Trade Union movement in the first place!

Last edited by Capt Hook; 29th Sep 2008 at 10:01.
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Old 29th Sep 2008, 13:19
  #137 (permalink)  
CaptKremin
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CP, Did I say 'twice your salary'?
My mistake - I just found out it's thrice your salary.

Your 'bigger airline' has a 'big interest' in my company? So what?
Does that put more food on your table? More money in your pocket?

It must make Micko crack up to read that you get a "warm comfortable feeling" just knowing he's getting richer by the day at your expense, and that you are so proud of that fact that you'll forego 200% of your current earnings.

What a twerp.
Seriously - you deserve to be screwed over.

Last edited by CaptKremin; 29th Sep 2008 at 13:42.
 
Old 29th Sep 2008, 15:11
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 97
What an utter pig

It makes me so very sad to see MOL's comments in the media today..

When discussing enforced unpaid leave, he was quoted as saying 'if they don't like it, they can leave'... absolutely charming.

So all these people giving their lives to RYR, trying their damnest to look after their families, pay the mortgage/utilities/food bills/car payments etc etc are repaid with such despicable contempt.

Then MOL goes on to state that he's taken a pay cut... He will burn in hell...
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Old 29th Sep 2008, 18:43
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Not Question you redline, Just wonderig where this was said? What news paper or briefing?
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Old 29th Sep 2008, 19:10
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Kremin, I ask you again, as I did on the other thread, what is your big interest in all of this anyhow?
Are you perchance frightened that the bogey-man from down the road gets his own way next time, or are you all prepared to shell out again to stop him.
Anyhow, as you earn 2 , sorry now it's 3 times what a Ryanair Capt earns for sure you can afford it, strange how you awarded yourself a 50% pay rise within a few posts. I would say [email protected], but then you must know how much you earn, and seem to be very confident in your knowledge of how much we don't, but somehow Hmnn I doubt it.

It is great to come on here and start threads titled "union to kick down door at RYR", but really don't you think you are a little premature here?
The legislation hasn't yet been enacted, it hasn't passed it's period for consultation with other parties ( I assume that exists ) you stated that UNITE (whoever they are I am not a union fetishist) have already found it to be less than watertight, it hasn't been tested and won in a court of law, early days to wave the victory flag.
If you look at the recent history of union involvement in RYR, you can maybe see why we could be sceptical about your new all singing/ all dancing solution to our problems.
Traditionally RYR have rode roughshod over any attempt to introduce union representation resulting in the dismissal of the person identified as being the prime mover ( Martin Duffy if my memory is correct) and various forms of skullduggery to make a ballot difficult in any one base. So, pilots being smart ? ? realised that just maybe unions weren't too welcome.
In spite of this many of my colleagues at the DUB base dug their heels in until last year, resisted signing contracts, paid up-front for conversion training, missed command slots etc, all because they were told the labour court would be the solution to everything.
Well, you know the next part I hope. Your wonderful Supreme Court , in my opinion with pressure from your government, decided that No, the labour court decision wasn't binding, and all the hopes were for nought. But you want us to believe of course that the self same government has suddenly got so concerned about the workers ( and not the cash flow from succesful companies ) that they are going to do an about turn & kick RYR's ass.
The second event last year, was that BALPA, contrary to the exortations of IALPA, decided not to go for a union recognition ballot in STN. The numbers were good, very good, but the (since replaced) head honcho in BALPA decided he wanted a dedicated RYR official ( however they were only offering a short term contract to him, so what sort of numpty would that have been ? ) be appointed before making that move. The golden opportunity was lost, and with the dissapointment following on from the labour court fiasco who knows when or if numbers will ever be good enough for it to rematerialise.
The guys who lived through that period in DUB have my utmost respect. They came to work and continued to do a professional job, surrounded by God knows what ambience during the time they spent in the office.Constantly watching their backs, losing money and opportunities, when it would have been so easy to cave in and go with the flow. If so many of them now are not spoiling for a fight , it is more a measure of the dissapointment they felt in the judiciary ( more than IALPA) not upholding what seemed entirely relevant legislation, rather than a lack of balls on their part. Your attitude towards RYR pilots demonstrates a lack of true understanding of the situation this last few years.
For this and many other reasons I think you are ill placed to come on here trumpeting your new legislation and how it will change everything. Save the fanfares for if & when a court case has been won ,appealed ,and still emerges victorious.
BTW, if you are really earning 3 times what we do, no wonder your company is in the sh1t, and how come you have nothing better to do with your time than come on here to discuss a company you don't even work for . . . (YET) Guess money ain't everything.
I guess we should be flattered that you care about your "poor cousins", but can't you do it in a less abrasive more constructive fashion, we might even start to take you seriously.

Last edited by captplaystation; 29th Sep 2008 at 22:25.
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