Forced unpaid leave at ryanair
Poose nice idea but how do you get around:
This is from a Permanent Ryanair's Contract of Employment issued in Oct 06
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
Poose:
As a PPL holder and Traumahawk captain you certainly have quite a grasp about what it is like in commercial aviation.
I will only give you one bit of advice.
The excessive use of bold type, italics and underlining reduces your argument more than somewhat.
As a PPL holder and Traumahawk captain you certainly have quite a grasp about what it is like in commercial aviation.
I will only give you one bit of advice.
The excessive use of bold type, italics and underlining reduces your argument more than somewhat.
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This is from a Permanent Ryanair's Contract of Employment issued in Oct 06
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
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This is from a Permanent Ryanair's Contract of Employment issued in Oct 06
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
20. Excess Capacity
20.1 Because of the uncertainty of the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If required to reduce our activity level for any reason, it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company, at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
Yes a company can put you on compulsary unpaid leave
Yes you can claim unemployment benefit
No you can't work anywhere else
But
The said company cannot use ( unless they are pilots on permanent contracts ) or employ someone else to do your job so if pilots on permanent contracts are on temporary lay off which is what it's called, no one (unless they are pilots on permanent contracts) can fly ryr planes
After 21 working days you can request redunancy the company must either reinstate you or make you redundant
If the company reinstates you, you can't be put back on compulsary unpaid leave for a period of 3 months
No company can just terminate your employment without good reason ( lack of work is not a good reason ) you have to be made redundant
And lastly if you sign a contract which is found to contradict the employment laws that part of the contract is void
I went through this 12 years ago with another company ( non aviation ) to the best of my memory these facts are correct
Last edited by drnick384; 1st Oct 2008 at 20:50. Reason: can't spell
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A mate of mine is at ryan, he's there, over 2 yrs, i talked to him the other day,he recons he'll earn €50k after tax this year based at dublin, so dont believe the hype.
Dont get me wrong, I need a job myself right now, and would fly just about anything right now. But some of the quoted figures by ryan simply do not happen in reality. I have 4 mates there ,all saying the same thing. But to be honest all of them are reasonably happy.
good luck to all, and heres to better times ahead!!!!
T
Dont get me wrong, I need a job myself right now, and would fly just about anything right now. But some of the quoted figures by ryan simply do not happen in reality. I have 4 mates there ,all saying the same thing. But to be honest all of them are reasonably happy.
good luck to all, and heres to better times ahead!!!!
T
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As the first poster almost said, whatthehellwasthat, just about sums up this whole episode.
It turns out now to be one week for each pilot at each of the two bases in question. Taken together with the four days off in nine, it amounts to 13 days off some time between now and April of next year.
As for Poose who suggests the pilots just turn up for work and demand a flight; do you have any idea how an airline actually operates?
The contract might well have been written by shysters for the benefit of rogues and signed by people desperate to pay the bills but I don't see several hundred redundancies, as there have been in other, less profitable airlines.
Enjoy the two weeks holiday. Jump on a Ryanair flight to the sun or the snow somewhere.
It turns out now to be one week for each pilot at each of the two bases in question. Taken together with the four days off in nine, it amounts to 13 days off some time between now and April of next year.
As for Poose who suggests the pilots just turn up for work and demand a flight; do you have any idea how an airline actually operates?
The contract might well have been written by shysters for the benefit of rogues and signed by people desperate to pay the bills but I don't see several hundred redundancies, as there have been in other, less profitable airlines.
Enjoy the two weeks holiday. Jump on a Ryanair flight to the sun or the snow somewhere.
Rubik, most of your posts are accurate I must admit, but you are one brainwashed puppy.
Can you ever see MOL, DO'B or EW ever taking forced unpaid leave in a company that makes millions everyday.
Very sad indeed....shame we missed the chance for union vote in 2004.
Can you ever see MOL, DO'B or EW ever taking forced unpaid leave in a company that makes millions everyday.
Very sad indeed....shame we missed the chance for union vote in 2004.
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Rubik101..............
Ye, so two weeks this year.
Next year you reach your 900 hours in 11 months so off you go on your 1 months unpaid leave and so on.
It's an attitude like this that's put us in the situation we are in.
The company is not going under, it's just trying to make more profit, and out of your pocket.
Ye, so two weeks this year.
Next year you reach your 900 hours in 11 months so off you go on your 1 months unpaid leave and so on.
It's an attitude like this that's put us in the situation we are in.
The company is not going under, it's just trying to make more profit, and out of your pocket.
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Isn't it wonderful how big people can be with their big principles, big opinions and big answers hiding behind a little username on a little messageboard. Some of us have to live with this and can reconcile it because life is about priorities and obligations. Charity will ALWAYS begin at home.
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spelling
RyanairPilot
Charity will need to begin in your home according to MOL and his relentless drive to screw you all.
He is laughing at you.
You all should be very, very worried indeed. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the global economy is going to get even worse, and fast.
How about that 2 weeks off becoming 4,6 or even 8??
It could happen. Ryanair are NOT immune from this downturn. In fact, you are probably even worse placed than many, because travelling of FR has been a discretionary thing for many people.
What happens when they decide that the weekend in Spain can wait? Oh, hang on. It has already, hence giving you forced unpaid leave.
And don't forget all those aircraft on order. How are they gonna be filled?
Who would have thought that :
Northern Rock
Wachovia Bank
HBOS
Merrill Lynch
Lehman Brothers
Bear Stearns
Bradford and Bingley.... would all disappear.
They always made more money than FR ever did, and had at one time, very strong balance sheets too.
Times and circumstances can change.
You are not immune. Be warned. It could get ugly. And as the list of business failures shows, the BIG BOYS can fail too.
Charity will need to begin in your home according to MOL and his relentless drive to screw you all.
He is laughing at you.
You all should be very, very worried indeed. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the global economy is going to get even worse, and fast.
How about that 2 weeks off becoming 4,6 or even 8??
It could happen. Ryanair are NOT immune from this downturn. In fact, you are probably even worse placed than many, because travelling of FR has been a discretionary thing for many people.
What happens when they decide that the weekend in Spain can wait? Oh, hang on. It has already, hence giving you forced unpaid leave.
And don't forget all those aircraft on order. How are they gonna be filled?
Who would have thought that :
Northern Rock
Wachovia Bank
HBOS
Merrill Lynch
Lehman Brothers
Bear Stearns
Bradford and Bingley.... would all disappear.
They always made more money than FR ever did, and had at one time, very strong balance sheets too.
Times and circumstances can change.
You are not immune. Be warned. It could get ugly. And as the list of business failures shows, the BIG BOYS can fail too.
Times and circumstances can change.
You are not immune. Be warned. It could get ugly. And as the list of business failures shows, the BIG BOYS can fail too.
Stansdead you hit the nail somewhat on the head. What you should have said is that ALL airline travel is discretionary probably more so if its long haul. If people start loosing their jobs in large numbers I would be worried about the mass lay offs that follow.
You could argue the semantics but safe to say in the current environment no one is safe. The legacies that people keep saying are the safe houses are struggling with decling yields especially up the front. With the current climate jo bloggs doesn't want to go to anywhere at the moment as he's worried about the bills coming in.
Is what RYR doing fair no, is it better than a p45 hell yes. I like it how you say we should take a stand. Would this be the same stand the virgin boys and girls took when they got laid off back in the dark days of 2001? What exactly is a standoff going to achieve, remember management hold the cards right now there isn't exactly a booming market.
MOL is a business man pure and simple. He does what is necessary to achieve a profit for his share holders. The days of looking after employees are long long gone unless you work in government. Be under no doubts I hate the current situation but Im a realist. I took a job in a highly risky environment and I have to be prepared to take the good with the bad.
I find it funny how easy jet is also offering unpaid leave as well as BA but the fact that RYR is doing so generates 11 pages of some of the most venomous stuff there is accusing RYR pilots of bringing the whole profession into disrepute, and for some a certain sense of gloating I told you so. Whatever happened to respecting a fellow professional. We aren't all like MOL you know and I just go to work to pay the bills.
You are not immune. Be warned. It could get ugly. And as the list of business failures shows, the BIG BOYS can fail too.
Stansdead you hit the nail somewhat on the head. What you should have said is that ALL airline travel is discretionary probably more so if its long haul. If people start loosing their jobs in large numbers I would be worried about the mass lay offs that follow.
You could argue the semantics but safe to say in the current environment no one is safe. The legacies that people keep saying are the safe houses are struggling with decling yields especially up the front. With the current climate jo bloggs doesn't want to go to anywhere at the moment as he's worried about the bills coming in.
Is what RYR doing fair no, is it better than a p45 hell yes. I like it how you say we should take a stand. Would this be the same stand the virgin boys and girls took when they got laid off back in the dark days of 2001? What exactly is a standoff going to achieve, remember management hold the cards right now there isn't exactly a booming market.
MOL is a business man pure and simple. He does what is necessary to achieve a profit for his share holders. The days of looking after employees are long long gone unless you work in government. Be under no doubts I hate the current situation but Im a realist. I took a job in a highly risky environment and I have to be prepared to take the good with the bad.
I find it funny how easy jet is also offering unpaid leave as well as BA but the fact that RYR is doing so generates 11 pages of some of the most venomous stuff there is accusing RYR pilots of bringing the whole profession into disrepute, and for some a certain sense of gloating I told you so. Whatever happened to respecting a fellow professional. We aren't all like MOL you know and I just go to work to pay the bills.
Last edited by Rhodes13; 2nd Oct 2008 at 15:00.
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@Rhodes13
Is BA forcing unpaid leave or just offering it? I know two more airlines doing the latter, but both not able to do the former because the unions would oppose (for now
)
RYR is just telling people to forget about their income for a week (or more), and not asking anymore..
Is BA forcing unpaid leave or just offering it? I know two more airlines doing the latter, but both not able to do the former because the unions would oppose (for now
)RYR is just telling people to forget about their income for a week (or more), and not asking anymore..
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MOL is a business man pure and simple. He does what is necessary to achieve a profit for his share holders.
O'Leary does not try to 'acheive a profit for his shareholders'. Ryanair does not share its profits with shareholders! He does not pay a dividend. This is why FR is swimming in cash.
O'Leary's job is to increase the share price for his shareholders.
He is failing in his job spectacularly at present.
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co pilot instructors?
just wondering but with the new sims coming online for ryan is there not a lot of positions for co-pilot instructors which could help some of ye guys out? heard from mate who is flying there is always requirement for instructors and the money is great? might be option for some of the people worried they might not be flying for a little while?? 
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A ryanair 73 has been training constantly in the EMA circuit for the last couple of days. Why train more pilots if they are already putting pilots on unpaid leave?
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Poose, that was another excellent post, and you are bang to rights again.
Regarding the new joiners at FR....I don't blame them for taking the crummy deal handed to them, they are pawns in the game.
No, the fault lies squarely with those who are already in FR, and who have decided to desert the field of battle, and run for their lives. It is their responsibility to take a stand and defend their professional status - and the contract conditions enforced on themselves and the newbies. They are derelict in their duty, and they are sufferring the consequences as a result.
Sadly the trickle down affects the whole industry.
I hope you succeed in your training. We need guys like you in this industry, people with a bit of self respect and some fortitude.
If you join FR - who knows - you could be the one to make a difference.
Good luck.
Regarding the new joiners at FR....I don't blame them for taking the crummy deal handed to them, they are pawns in the game.
No, the fault lies squarely with those who are already in FR, and who have decided to desert the field of battle, and run for their lives. It is their responsibility to take a stand and defend their professional status - and the contract conditions enforced on themselves and the newbies. They are derelict in their duty, and they are sufferring the consequences as a result.
Sadly the trickle down affects the whole industry.
I hope you succeed in your training. We need guys like you in this industry, people with a bit of self respect and some fortitude.
If you join FR - who knows - you could be the one to make a difference.
Good luck.
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Poose,
For your own sake I hope you end up somewhere other than RYR.
Your morals, care for your fellow man, and justified pride in your future profession will quickly be swamped by the apathy ,fear, and me me me mentality that is never too far beneath the surface.
With apologies to Kremin, who will now flame me again.
Aim higher, much higher Poose, whilst this sad shadow of its former self that is our current air transport industry offers some decent jobs for the next few years at least.
BTW, I can see exactly why RYR are going to put permanent pilots on unpaid leave whilst still flying contractors, but before anyone suggests otherwise, I think it SHOULD be the straw that broke the camels back ( not the Leo Hairy camel ) but it won't be , and the camel will hobble on, ever dehydrating as it goes.
For your own sake I hope you end up somewhere other than RYR.
Your morals, care for your fellow man, and justified pride in your future profession will quickly be swamped by the apathy ,fear, and me me me mentality that is never too far beneath the surface.
With apologies to Kremin, who will now flame me again.
Aim higher, much higher Poose, whilst this sad shadow of its former self that is our current air transport industry offers some decent jobs for the next few years at least.
BTW, I can see exactly why RYR are going to put permanent pilots on unpaid leave whilst still flying contractors, but before anyone suggests otherwise, I think it SHOULD be the straw that broke the camels back ( not the Leo Hairy camel ) but it won't be , and the camel will hobble on, ever dehydrating as it goes.
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Just heard on BBC business news that Ford are putting one of its plants on a 4 days week for a month. The transit and Freelander/Jaguar plants are affected. There were no reports of unions going to the barricades over it. No doubt others will follow. So what's the difference at RYR? Reduced capacity/productivity = reduced labour force, even if temporary.
What I do find disappointing is that new a/c are being placed at new bases and having to be flown by new or BRK crews. Surely the homespun employees at one base should be offered the chance to operate from another base and so keep their incomes before new comers are employeed within the network? Is that not the moral stance?
What I do find disappointing is that new a/c are being placed at new bases and having to be flown by new or BRK crews. Surely the homespun employees at one base should be offered the chance to operate from another base and so keep their incomes before new comers are employeed within the network? Is that not the moral stance?