DHLAir wannabe? read this.
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The leader of the Famous One has once again blessed us with his lonesome opinion.
People who are worried about their jobs don't leave and people are leaving because they are being poisoned - simple
People who are worried about their jobs don't leave and people are leaving because they are being poisoned - simple
Moon Walker
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We need to worry about protecting our jobs
"if there is too much trouble ,Deutsche post will just move your job over to Leipzig and start a airline there"
they might not have noticed this but there is also a pilot shortage in gemany and the german CAA wouldnt put up with this fumes BULL**** as the UK CAA does! go further east and you also find a pilot shortage in poland (another country mentioned to take over our jobs).
The ball in on there side ,and after ignoring requests from the pilot group for years its time for them to start giving in on some issues!
And they should know by now what these requests are!
If they dont more people will leave ,if you sit down in a crewroom of for dinner downroute with some colluagues and ask who is planning to stay you will be shocked to find out how few are.
I for one look at the job websides every week to look for something els.
Neil
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This is a very real problem and an on going one at Flybe on the 146. Crews are continuing to be admitted to hospital after an event on a regular basis.
The Cocktail of chemicals that invade your body are unbelievable, with most of them known carcinogens. We have several Pilots who have lost their medicals over this. We also have a very disturbingly high rate of miscarriages and premature births/ defects amongst our female cabin crews.
SQP1, count yourself very lucky that you are not affected.................Yet.
The Cocktail of chemicals that invade your body are unbelievable, with most of them known carcinogens. We have several Pilots who have lost their medicals over this. We also have a very disturbingly high rate of miscarriages and premature births/ defects amongst our female cabin crews.
SQP1, count yourself very lucky that you are not affected.................Yet.
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I’ve just heard about this thread and I’m now glad to have read it. There’s some good honest stuff here and the title says it all - anyone considering joining DHL Air needs to be aware of the FACTs and this thread is a true reflection of what’s going on.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, there is a massive problem with fumes in DHL. Sadly, even if the fumes wasn’t an issue there are a whole host of other issues that need to be addressed to get this outfit back to what it was and what it could (so easily) be once again.
SQP1, you are a lone voice here and from your own admission, a lone voice amongst your colleagues. In fact you have more or less single handedly kept this post alive – something we must all thank you for!
It has just been declared that the reports of fumes incidents in DHL Air has reduced significantly, the ONLY reason for this is that exposure to these fumes, in most circumstances, has been decreed by the company to be normal and therefore not reportable. I guess if you ask Blair he’d find a way of “spinning” the facts and proving that the incidence of stabbings in London has reduced in his twilight years! That’s what’s happening at DHL, a lot of spin and bluster about how things are and will improve, yet the fact is absolutely nothing is getting better.
I’ve no doubt that the engineers are doing their best within their means, but what can they do with engines leaking oil into the air conditioning ducts without spending the huge amounts of money required to replace all of the seals? BA aren’t stupid – they saw this coming and got rid of the aircraft before they were lumbered with them - as DHL Air now are. Of course there are ways to fix the problem but guess what, it costs money and lots of it – that’s why you ain’t gonna see a whole lot of action until something serious goes down.
In years to come there are people reading this thread now who will suffer ill health because of their exposure to fumes whilst flying 757’s for DHL Air – of that I have no doubt. It maybe one of the “Famous Five”, it maybe me or it may even be you SQP1 – WAKE UP!!!!!!! And where will DHL Air be when the long term affects become apparent and it’s time to sue!? They’ll have long gone which is why right now they don’t give a stuff.
There is a lot of talk going on at management level, but no action. This needs sorting fast, the “moaners” have long gone and the rest are quickly following. We are all slowly waking up to the fact that we are being poisoned, nothing is being done about it and so the only option left is for us to leave.
Attrition amongst the pilots is appalling (not to mention what’s been going on in the office!) and must be approaching 25% for the last 12 months – the bad news is that this is the tip of the iceberg, there’s a lot more in the pipeline. How can any company sustain this reduction in numbers and sit back and let it happen? The worst and most worrying aspect of this though is that they simply don’t care, they are letting this happen and losing some of the best people they have and doing absolutely nothing about it. Why, what is the real agenda?
This leads onto another cause for concern – dilution of experience. There is a huge experience gap opening up because they are unable to recruit experience and at the same time to plug the hole at the top the number of guys going through command upgrades is huge. The result is we have lots of inexperience at both ends with morale probably the lowest of any company in the UK at present – we are far from the jewel in the industry that DHL Air profess to be.
This thread is not helping DHL’s recruitment program and we all realise that. But for those of you ready to have a pop at anyone posting here, think about it. Why have we turned to this forum, somewhere I do not personally frequent? Desperation! It’s a known fact that our hierarchy read this and we have all given up on any other means of communication, so maybe, just maybe if we air our views here someone may do something about it.
Nothing is more important than our health. I don’t want to go, I want to see this sorted and to get the job back on the rails. Sadly I don’t believe this is going to happen and more than likely will follow in the footsteps of the others who have held out in vain for something to be done.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, there is a massive problem with fumes in DHL. Sadly, even if the fumes wasn’t an issue there are a whole host of other issues that need to be addressed to get this outfit back to what it was and what it could (so easily) be once again.
SQP1, you are a lone voice here and from your own admission, a lone voice amongst your colleagues. In fact you have more or less single handedly kept this post alive – something we must all thank you for!
It has just been declared that the reports of fumes incidents in DHL Air has reduced significantly, the ONLY reason for this is that exposure to these fumes, in most circumstances, has been decreed by the company to be normal and therefore not reportable. I guess if you ask Blair he’d find a way of “spinning” the facts and proving that the incidence of stabbings in London has reduced in his twilight years! That’s what’s happening at DHL, a lot of spin and bluster about how things are and will improve, yet the fact is absolutely nothing is getting better.
I’ve no doubt that the engineers are doing their best within their means, but what can they do with engines leaking oil into the air conditioning ducts without spending the huge amounts of money required to replace all of the seals? BA aren’t stupid – they saw this coming and got rid of the aircraft before they were lumbered with them - as DHL Air now are. Of course there are ways to fix the problem but guess what, it costs money and lots of it – that’s why you ain’t gonna see a whole lot of action until something serious goes down.
In years to come there are people reading this thread now who will suffer ill health because of their exposure to fumes whilst flying 757’s for DHL Air – of that I have no doubt. It maybe one of the “Famous Five”, it maybe me or it may even be you SQP1 – WAKE UP!!!!!!!
And where will DHL Air be when the long term affects become apparent and it’s time to sue!? They’ll have long gone which is why right now they don’t give a stuff.There is a lot of talk going on at management level, but no action. This needs sorting fast, the “moaners” have long gone and the rest are quickly following. We are all slowly waking up to the fact that we are being poisoned, nothing is being done about it and so the only option left is for us to leave.
Attrition amongst the pilots is appalling (not to mention what’s been going on in the office!) and must be approaching 25% for the last 12 months – the bad news is that this is the tip of the iceberg, there’s a lot more in the pipeline. How can any company sustain this reduction in numbers and sit back and let it happen? The worst and most worrying aspect of this though is that they simply don’t care, they are letting this happen and losing some of the best people they have and doing absolutely nothing about it. Why, what is the real agenda?
This leads onto another cause for concern – dilution of experience. There is a huge experience gap opening up because they are unable to recruit experience and at the same time to plug the hole at the top the number of guys going through command upgrades is huge. The result is we have lots of inexperience at both ends with morale probably the lowest of any company in the UK at present – we are far from the jewel in the industry that DHL Air profess to be.
This thread is not helping DHL’s recruitment program and we all realise that. But for those of you ready to have a pop at anyone posting here, think about it. Why have we turned to this forum, somewhere I do not personally frequent? Desperation! It’s a known fact that our hierarchy read this and we have all given up on any other means of communication, so maybe, just maybe if we air our views here someone may do something about it.
Nothing is more important than our health. I don’t want to go, I want to see this sorted and to get the job back on the rails. Sadly I don’t believe this is going to happen and more than likely will follow in the footsteps of the others who have held out in vain for something to be done.
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Talk about spin! So now I'm 'pro/fumes'
No I'm not pro/fumes. I'm just anti/hysteria!
And to those who "know who I am" I think if you check the times against the roster you will see it couldn't be what you think.
No I'm not pro/fumes. I'm just anti/hysteria!
And to those who "know who I am" I think if you check the times against the roster you will see it couldn't be what you think.
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Gentlemen, thank you for your replies to my questions. Sorry it's been so long since you replied, but you know the dreaded reserve and how it has a habit of catching you!
I had a little talk with our union tech guy and he knew about the problem all right. Said there had been some symposiums on it and what not. He said pretty much the same thing you guys have told me, that the early Rolls engined 75's have a problem with this but that our's didn't.
He also did say that all pressurised airplanes did have this problem to some extent or another, but that the 757 and the Bae146 have one of several magnitudes larger than any other airplane.
Good luck with your problem there, boys. I hope you kick some ****!
Bob Luken
I had a little talk with our union tech guy and he knew about the problem all right. Said there had been some symposiums on it and what not. He said pretty much the same thing you guys have told me, that the early Rolls engined 75's have a problem with this but that our's didn't.
He also did say that all pressurised airplanes did have this problem to some extent or another, but that the 757 and the Bae146 have one of several magnitudes larger than any other airplane.
Good luck with your problem there, boys. I hope you kick some ****!
Bob Luken
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Appreciate the feed back Bob Luken!
SQP1, it doesn't matter who you are! You could come from Leipzig or Liverpool... who cares?
SQP2 has made a valid point; your's, more than any other post is keeping the debate alive. I suspect management would probably like the publicity to die a death!
SQP1, it doesn't matter who you are! You could come from Leipzig or Liverpool... who cares?
SQP2 has made a valid point; your's, more than any other post is keeping the debate alive. I suspect management would probably like the publicity to die a death!
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SQP1; I doubt that anyone cares who you are excepting maybe you.
As to the timing thing, anyone who's watched an old colubo knows you can get around that!
But don't worry, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you..
As to the timing thing, anyone who's watched an old colubo knows you can get around that!
But don't worry, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you..
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G.A.
Peanut butter doesn’t understand the meaning of the word accountability. I’d like to read some of the flannel he puts into his management reports to DPWN. I bet they are clueless as to what damage he’s causing them.
Peanut butter doesn’t understand the meaning of the word accountability. I’d like to read some of the flannel he puts into his management reports to DPWN. I bet they are clueless as to what damage he’s causing them.
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Our problem, as a pilot group lies squarely in our lack of effective pilot representation. We now only have one (non elected) pilot representative on the JCG, which forms part of the European Works Council.
To illustrate just how poorly represented we are; there was a DHL Pilots alliance meeting hosted by DPWN in their Bonn headquarters on the 9th May. It was attended by representative pilots from DHL's 2 American Airlines, plus the German Pilots flying for Lufthansa Cargo, representatives from EAT, and observers from Polar Air Cargo (Atlas Air). I am told the collective group pretty much accounted for DPWN's entire aviation interests in the northern hemisphere.
It was duly noted that DHL Air UK were the only interested party NOT to have pilot representives in attendance!
Wheelbarrow, as far as I am aware, the MD does not report directly to DPWN; he reports to the CEO for Aviation at DHL who in turn reports at DPWN board level.
To illustrate just how poorly represented we are; there was a DHL Pilots alliance meeting hosted by DPWN in their Bonn headquarters on the 9th May. It was attended by representative pilots from DHL's 2 American Airlines, plus the German Pilots flying for Lufthansa Cargo, representatives from EAT, and observers from Polar Air Cargo (Atlas Air). I am told the collective group pretty much accounted for DPWN's entire aviation interests in the northern hemisphere.
It was duly noted that DHL Air UK were the only interested party NOT to have pilot representives in attendance!
Wheelbarrow, as far as I am aware, the MD does not report directly to DPWN; he reports to the CEO for Aviation at DHL who in turn reports at DPWN board level.
Last edited by sapco2; 16th May 2007 at 09:49.
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Dear fellow night riders,
since almost the beginning I do follow this thread with great interest.
My question is:Why don't you bring this obviously severe problem to the attention of the supervisory board of DPWN?
To do this is very easy: You simply log on to www.dpwn.de and choose the English site and you soon will find the names of all the members of the supervisory board. Just choose names from the employees section, preferably union representitives. The most appropriate one is Mr. Buettner.
His e-mail contact is: First name [email protected]
Good luck
since almost the beginning I do follow this thread with great interest.
My question is:Why don't you bring this obviously severe problem to the attention of the supervisory board of DPWN?
To do this is very easy: You simply log on to www.dpwn.de and choose the English site and you soon will find the names of all the members of the supervisory board. Just choose names from the employees section, preferably union representitives. The most appropriate one is Mr. Buettner.
His e-mail contact is: First name [email protected]
Good luck
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to make it more easy I just checked DPWN. The guy to contact is "Rolf Buettner", e-mail [email protected]
Cheers
Cheers
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146/757 cockpit fumes cont.
I cant say I recognise JW411,but having been brought up on cod liver oil,malt supplements etc,in the late 40s as well,maybe I should be in better health.It is definitely a fact that some Pilots do not smell the same noxious odours.However,in 1988 when I started on the 146 at Air Uk,The Girls in the back,as well as Flightdeck, frequently complained and several ended up with headaches,and sinus problems.Also passengers complained about this.We had a brilliant FSO who had the Engineers change from Mobiljet2 to Aeroshell in the APU,and this DID makes things better.However with changes of Management this quickly reverted back,because the beancounters wanted greater APU engine life.These aircraft were Brand New at the time.I believe the are several Air Uk Pilots from that era,who have medicals no longer.The main point is that the Health problems are caused by a steady build up over many years of exposure.In Liege we had young 1st Officers with big problems,not just old shags.The Belgians transferred their own onto other Fleets to protect them,I believe.Some Pilots are definitely more prone to suffering from this than others,just as Allergy sufferers differ.Unfortunately the ones that dont ,consider the others to be whingers.One thing I did find ,was that habitual smokers did not find the fumes a particular problem.Maybe they were immune to it,so everyone should take up the habit again.This seems to go around and around,and whilst this Profession is no longer run by Pilots,the Beancounters will always win,until something serious occurs.The is no historical database to say when the problem will be so big,as to catch their attention.
Moon Walker
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What do you mean ,changing names ,i havnt changed my name in years
As for contacting DPWN ,this has been done by a couple of people but as long as the aircraft fly on time they just dont care.
There will be a couple of court cases against DHL in the near future and that might wake them up! they hate publicity.
As sapco2 already pointed out the thing we need is a union! we did try a couple of times but after the first try management came down hard on the guys organizing it ,and that scared most people off.
So instead of trying again most people just leave!
There are some efforts made at the moment by the DFO to turn things around.
Things have gotten so bad that im not sure he can stop the chain reaction of people leaving ,im giving him the benefit of doubt at the moment but he has a lot of things to do to keep me on his side and the biggest one "fumes" might be impossible to fix.
Neil
As for contacting DPWN ,this has been done by a couple of people but as long as the aircraft fly on time they just dont care.
There will be a couple of court cases against DHL in the near future and that might wake them up! they hate publicity.
As sapco2 already pointed out the thing we need is a union! we did try a couple of times but after the first try management came down hard on the guys organizing it ,and that scared most people off.
So instead of trying again most people just leave!
There are some efforts made at the moment by the DFO to turn things around.
Things have gotten so bad that im not sure he can stop the chain reaction of people leaving ,im giving him the benefit of doubt at the moment but he has a lot of things to do to keep me on his side and the biggest one "fumes" might be impossible to fix.
Neil
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Folks, just a suggestion, but could you join me in completely ignoring any post by SQP1 from now on. If he is for real, I think he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a complete waste of time responding to him.
Personally I am very grateful to him for his early efforts and support in illuminating and highlighting this problem we have at DHL. Obviously it is only one of many problems we have here but as we all know, at the end of the day, if you are left without you health, you are left with nothing.
I am particularly grateful to those who have posted and are, sadly, only too well acquainted with the problem due to having to live with its effects.
We believe that we are now the only company in the world left operating these RR 535C engines (apart from the two aircraft that we shipped to Blue Dart in India). I guess it is no accident that they are all on freighters.
We, who for various reasons find that we are not in a position to seek alternative employment right now, are desperately hoping that something can be done to fix this proven problem, before the barrel with the loaded chamber points in our direction.
Sapco2, what you posted about a DHL Pilots alliance meeting hosted by DPWN being held without any representative from DHL UK being present is, quite simply, appalling. If there was any doubt left within the pilot force about the way in which we have been marginalized since the arrival of our current MD, it has surely been removed now.
Personally I am very grateful to him for his early efforts and support in illuminating and highlighting this problem we have at DHL. Obviously it is only one of many problems we have here but as we all know, at the end of the day, if you are left without you health, you are left with nothing.
I am particularly grateful to those who have posted and are, sadly, only too well acquainted with the problem due to having to live with its effects.
We believe that we are now the only company in the world left operating these RR 535C engines (apart from the two aircraft that we shipped to Blue Dart in India). I guess it is no accident that they are all on freighters.
We, who for various reasons find that we are not in a position to seek alternative employment right now, are desperately hoping that something can be done to fix this proven problem, before the barrel with the loaded chamber points in our direction.
Sapco2, what you posted about a DHL Pilots alliance meeting hosted by DPWN being held without any representative from DHL UK being present is, quite simply, appalling. If there was any doubt left within the pilot force about the way in which we have been marginalized since the arrival of our current MD, it has surely been removed now.
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Guy's
Excuse the ignorance, but are most of the Pilots BALPA members? if for nothing else at least you'll have full legal representation.
I do currently have a firm offer of employment with DHL and having followed this post from the start am very concerned!! The bottom line is (like many have already said) witout your health your nothing!!
If the DFO has recognised that there is a problem then at least it is a step in the right direction, considering last years profits were 3.91 Billion a few quid spent on replacing some of the worst engines would'nt hit the bottom line!!
Regards
Confused Pilot!
Excuse the ignorance, but are most of the Pilots BALPA members? if for nothing else at least you'll have full legal representation.
I do currently have a firm offer of employment with DHL and having followed this post from the start am very concerned!! The bottom line is (like many have already said) witout your health your nothing!!
If the DFO has recognised that there is a problem then at least it is a step in the right direction, considering last years profits were 3.91 Billion a few quid spent on replacing some of the worst engines would'nt hit the bottom line!!
Regards
Confused Pilot!
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Red Baron,
The DFO is a good man but you need to bear in mind he is the fourth DFO to hold office during the managing director's 3 year tenure. If he succeeds in getting senior management to recognise there is a fumes problem, he'll be a miracle worker in the eyes of the pilot workforce!
The DFO is a good man but you need to bear in mind he is the fourth DFO to hold office during the managing director's 3 year tenure. If he succeeds in getting senior management to recognise there is a fumes problem, he'll be a miracle worker in the eyes of the pilot workforce!
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Go_ahead, NO it isn't true, its another vicious rumour that has no foundation.
SQP1, how can you tell us that our jobs are at risk in one post and then talk about LOYALTY in another
SQP1, how can you tell us that our jobs are at risk in one post and then talk about LOYALTY in another