DHLAir wannabe? read this.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the confirmation Rob.
Was pretty sure straight away that I was reading the same puerile nonsense written in the identical unlettered style to which we have become accustomed.
Pathetic really.
Was pretty sure straight away that I was reading the same puerile nonsense written in the identical unlettered style to which we have become accustomed.
Pathetic really.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Rob, and Avenging Angel.
For the record everyone, I do NOT agree with SQP1's (Ace the base's) assertion that the job climate is causing people to leave. If management were to do a comparison between attrition rates here with UPS & Fed Ex they'd maybe realise there's a lot more to it than that.
What I meant to say (not very clearly it would seem) is that toxic fumes are not the sole factor for pilots leaving.
Here is the data once again;
In the early part of 2004, just prior to the Accountable Manager’s appointment, our crew complement stood at:
38 DHL captains, plus an additional 34 ACL contract captains (72 total)
39 DHL first officers, plus an additional 33 ACL contract first officers (72 total)
Of the original 38 DHL captains, just 20 still work for the company (attrition rate = 47%)
Of the original 39 DHL first officers, just19 still work for the company (attrition rate = 51%)
Of the original 34 ACL captains, just 21 still work for the company (attrition rate = 38%) (12 of those are now employed as full time DHL captains)
Of the original 33 ACL first officers, just 22 still work for the company (attrition rate = 33%) (18 of the original ACL first officer are now employed as full time DHL pilots)
An additional 17 pilots who joined the company after 2004 have, or are about to vote with their feet.
In excess of 30 first officers have been promoted to captain during that same 3-year period and I believe those career enhancing opportunities may have actually served to slow down the rate of pilots leaving. (seven of those have since left)
The reasons these pilots have left DHL are indeed varied; toxic fumes in the flight deck is not the sole factor.
For the record everyone, I do NOT agree with SQP1's (Ace the base's) assertion that the job climate is causing people to leave. If management were to do a comparison between attrition rates here with UPS & Fed Ex they'd maybe realise there's a lot more to it than that.
What I meant to say (not very clearly it would seem) is that toxic fumes are not the sole factor for pilots leaving.
Here is the data once again;
In the early part of 2004, just prior to the Accountable Manager’s appointment, our crew complement stood at:
38 DHL captains, plus an additional 34 ACL contract captains (72 total)
39 DHL first officers, plus an additional 33 ACL contract first officers (72 total)
Of the original 38 DHL captains, just 20 still work for the company (attrition rate = 47%)
Of the original 39 DHL first officers, just19 still work for the company (attrition rate = 51%)
Of the original 34 ACL captains, just 21 still work for the company (attrition rate = 38%) (12 of those are now employed as full time DHL captains)
Of the original 33 ACL first officers, just 22 still work for the company (attrition rate = 33%) (18 of the original ACL first officer are now employed as full time DHL pilots)
An additional 17 pilots who joined the company after 2004 have, or are about to vote with their feet.
In excess of 30 first officers have been promoted to captain during that same 3-year period and I believe those career enhancing opportunities may have actually served to slow down the rate of pilots leaving. (seven of those have since left)
The reasons these pilots have left DHL are indeed varied; toxic fumes in the flight deck is not the sole factor.
Last edited by sapco2; 21st May 2007 at 12:17.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SQP1,
People who live in tree houses shouldn't **** about with Chainsaws!
Troll killing time boys and girls:
SQP1 already knew that seeing as you are both writing from the same fixed IP address Ace of Base.
BR.
People who live in tree houses shouldn't **** about with Chainsaws!
Troll killing time boys and girls:
SQP1 already knew that seeing as you are both writing from the same fixed IP address Ace of Base.
BR.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Manchester
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ooh Squipface you are a one!
Using two identities to get your points across.
You naughty little sausage
He'll be easy enough to identify now boys and girls, just watch out for the lonely little soul that's talking to his imaginary friend...Ah bless!
Using two identities to get your points across.
You naughty little sausage
He'll be easy enough to identify now boys and girls, just watch out for the lonely little soul that's talking to his imaginary friend...Ah bless!
Last edited by Badhorsey; 22nd May 2007 at 00:23.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some more figures which are interesting, amazing, sad, incredible, depending on your point of view.
Company numbers as at 3rd Jan 2007, there were 155 pilots employed at DHL UK. To date, 31 of that number have either handed in their resignations or have already left.
(They are being replaced).
Company numbers as at 3rd Jan 2007, there were 155 pilots employed at DHL UK. To date, 31 of that number have either handed in their resignations or have already left.
(They are being replaced).
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smoke/fumes Removal
Smoke/fumes Removal
Just put his on another thread (SR 111 romours & news)...too lazy to type it twice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting tapes
There is another discussion going on over in "terms and endearments" wrt DHL and a high occurence of fumes in the flight deck
DANNY (or other moderator) that thread really deserves to be "headlined" here (R & N)...just delete the juvenile stuff from the company man....it really is an important topic
Not sure about the MD 11 QRH/NNC...but Boeing categorically states "LAND AT THE NEAREST SUITABLE AIRPORT" in its smoke/fumes removal checklist (something the DHL guys could do, to push their point/protect their health)
Looks like the SR guys had this "in mind" but weren't pressing it at the time (long checklists, I hear)...nice to hear the thomsonfly guys recently said "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" at the outset, and no-one was in any confusion as to their status...SR declared a PAN and later "an emergency"...but listening to it all, it didn't seem ATC really understood the predicament they were in..until too late
Just put his on another thread (SR 111 romours & news)...too lazy to type it twice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting tapes
There is another discussion going on over in "terms and endearments" wrt DHL and a high occurence of fumes in the flight deck
DANNY (or other moderator) that thread really deserves to be "headlined" here (R & N)...just delete the juvenile stuff from the company man....it really is an important topic
Not sure about the MD 11 QRH/NNC...but Boeing categorically states "LAND AT THE NEAREST SUITABLE AIRPORT" in its smoke/fumes removal checklist (something the DHL guys could do, to push their point/protect their health)
Looks like the SR guys had this "in mind" but weren't pressing it at the time (long checklists, I hear)...nice to hear the thomsonfly guys recently said "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" at the outset, and no-one was in any confusion as to their status...SR declared a PAN and later "an emergency"...but listening to it all, it didn't seem ATC really understood the predicament they were in..until too late
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks again fro your support Sapco2. The small MINORITY shouldn't get it all their way! 
All I have been trying to say is a SMALL problem has been blown out of all proportion by a few very loud people who are corrupting the rest of the pilot body with their own poison!
Notice that there is no lack of replacements for the ones who can't or won't stay the course!
All I have been trying to say is a SMALL problem has been blown out of all proportion by a few very loud people who are corrupting the rest of the pilot body with their own poison!
Notice that there is no lack of replacements for the ones who can't or won't stay the course!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're welcome SQP1.
We're all entitled to a point of view and I'll certainly grant you one thing, no-one can knock you for lack of loyalty to DHL.
You must respect the viewpoint of your colleagues though!
We're all entitled to a point of view and I'll certainly grant you one thing, no-one can knock you for lack of loyalty to DHL.
You must respect the viewpoint of your colleagues though!
Moon Walker
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: the Moon
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no lack of replacements! i would say we are lacking ,look at our crew numbers we are desperately short!
Neil
Neil
Last edited by neil armstrong; 26th May 2007 at 12:27.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Road
Age: 53
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those who still don't believe.
For those of you who have not heard the Sunday program (Australian public affairs program) cover story on contaminated air is on this Sunday (27 May) at 9am (Australian time).
Dangerous toxin detected on passenger jets
Friday May 25 18:00 AEST
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269064
The actual Sunday program on their website at the moment consists of the following
Toxic planes: what the airlines don't tell you
May 27, 2007
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/includes/fetchcontent.asp?purl=/sunday/cover_stories/article_2209.asp
Toxic planes: CASA questioned
May 27, 2007
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/article_2211.asp
Apparently it will be uploaded onto their website below later that afternoon (Australian time) & kept there, so this is great news as people can see it from around the world.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Press release
Passenger jets in Australia and internationally have been the targets of a secret swabbing study by pilots and flight attendants concerned about their exposure to contaminated air on commercial aircraft.
The results, to be detailed on this Sunday’s Channel Nine SUNDAY program, have prompted a call from University of NSW toxicologist Professor Chris Winder for the aviation industry to fund a proper epidemiological study to see if the levels of so-called tricresyl phosphate (or TCP) now being found on most modern passenger jets during the survey are toxic.
“The industry is in complete denial that this is an issue or that they need to worry about it,” says Prof Winder. “They will continue to resist that there is a problem for as long as they can so they don’t have to worry about fixing it.”
The issue of TCP contamination of aircraft air systems first came to light in Australia in 1999 when a Senate Inquiry was held into concerns about a cluster of complaints about fumes exposures and illness among flight crew on the British Aerospace 146 passenger jet used extensively across the country back then by Ansett and National Jet.
The inquiry heard evidence of a design fault in the BAE146 which allows oil from the engine to vaporise into the bleed air system, contaminating cabin and cockpit air with organophosphate compounds used in the jet oil as an anti-wear additive.
The effects of this mix of pyrolised chemicals are linked in the short-term to symptoms such as headaches, nausea, dizziness, loss of concentration and blurred vision and even temporary paralysis. In the long-term, effects reported include chronic fatigue, neurological damage and chemical sensitivity.
At the time, evidence was given under oath by both Ansett and Australia’s air safety watchdog CASA – the Civil Aviation Safety Authority – that TCP had never been found inside an aircraft.
But, as this weekend’s program reveals, research initiated by a British pilot Tristan Loraine, has proved the industry wrong. Loraine himself got sick from fumes while flying Boeing 757 jets. He realised the commercial aviation industry had failed to do swab testing of aircraft cabins and cockpits as had been recommended by the prestigious US National Research Council, an arm of the US Academy of Sciences.
In the past three years he has encouraged international flight unions and respected international scientists, including Professor Chris Van Netten of the University of British Columbia in Canada, to get the swab testing done without the knowledge of the major airlines. Subsequent testing by Professor Van Netten has revealed the presence of TCP in almost every sample across almost every type of modern passenger jet.
“We decided we would start doing our own because the airlines weren’t doing them,” says Loraine. “So to date, we have done swab testing on aircraft in the UK, in Australian and in North America and nearly all of them are coming back positive. What that means is that the neuro-toxin is on the walls of the passenger cabin and in the flight deck.”
The program interviews flight crew and passengers who have become chronically ill from exposure to fumes on commercial passenger aircraft, including former Ansett flight attendant Judy Cullinane, who won a confidential settlement from the Ansett insurers in 2002. She is critical that passengers flying on commercial jet are rarely told if they have been exposed to the known neuro-toxic fumes:
“They get off the aircraft sometimes feeling tired, sick, ill and they don’t know what they’ve been exposed to. It’s wrong. They should be told what they were exposed to, and how it can affect them. We all should be.”
Professor Winder is critical that neither CASA nor the commercial airline industry has ever done a scientific survey on the air in a plane while a bleed air system is leaking oil into the cabin air. He also says several key recommendations made in the 2000 Senate Inquiry report to Parliament have been ignored.
“All I want the aviation industry to do is to acknowledge that this is a real issue instead of pretending that it isn’t, which is what they’ve been doing,” Winder says.
The air safety watchdog, CASA, told SUNDAY that the long-term health effects of very frequent air travel were “not directly related to safety of flight” within the ambit of CASA’s statutory responsibilities. It acknowledged 138 fumes incidents had been reported on Australian aircraft in the past seven and a half years since the Senate inquiry hearings – a figure flight unions claim is not reflective of a much higher rate of incidents that go unreported.
Detailed questions on air contamination issues were also put to the peak aviation industry body IATA – the International Air Transport Association. No response was received at time of publication.
Dangerous toxin detected on passenger jets
Friday May 25 18:00 AEST
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269064
The actual Sunday program on their website at the moment consists of the following
Toxic planes: what the airlines don't tell you
May 27, 2007
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/includes/fetchcontent.asp?purl=/sunday/cover_stories/article_2209.asp
Toxic planes: CASA questioned
May 27, 2007
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/article_2211.asp
Apparently it will be uploaded onto their website below later that afternoon (Australian time) & kept there, so this is great news as people can see it from around the world.
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Press release
Fears of health risk from fumes on passenger jets
Traces of a dangerous neuro-toxin known to cause chronic health problems have been detected on most modern commercial passenger jets from samples collected clandestinely by flight crew.Passenger jets in Australia and internationally have been the targets of a secret swabbing study by pilots and flight attendants concerned about their exposure to contaminated air on commercial aircraft.
The results, to be detailed on this Sunday’s Channel Nine SUNDAY program, have prompted a call from University of NSW toxicologist Professor Chris Winder for the aviation industry to fund a proper epidemiological study to see if the levels of so-called tricresyl phosphate (or TCP) now being found on most modern passenger jets during the survey are toxic.
“The industry is in complete denial that this is an issue or that they need to worry about it,” says Prof Winder. “They will continue to resist that there is a problem for as long as they can so they don’t have to worry about fixing it.”
The issue of TCP contamination of aircraft air systems first came to light in Australia in 1999 when a Senate Inquiry was held into concerns about a cluster of complaints about fumes exposures and illness among flight crew on the British Aerospace 146 passenger jet used extensively across the country back then by Ansett and National Jet.
The inquiry heard evidence of a design fault in the BAE146 which allows oil from the engine to vaporise into the bleed air system, contaminating cabin and cockpit air with organophosphate compounds used in the jet oil as an anti-wear additive.
The effects of this mix of pyrolised chemicals are linked in the short-term to symptoms such as headaches, nausea, dizziness, loss of concentration and blurred vision and even temporary paralysis. In the long-term, effects reported include chronic fatigue, neurological damage and chemical sensitivity.
At the time, evidence was given under oath by both Ansett and Australia’s air safety watchdog CASA – the Civil Aviation Safety Authority – that TCP had never been found inside an aircraft.
But, as this weekend’s program reveals, research initiated by a British pilot Tristan Loraine, has proved the industry wrong. Loraine himself got sick from fumes while flying Boeing 757 jets. He realised the commercial aviation industry had failed to do swab testing of aircraft cabins and cockpits as had been recommended by the prestigious US National Research Council, an arm of the US Academy of Sciences.
In the past three years he has encouraged international flight unions and respected international scientists, including Professor Chris Van Netten of the University of British Columbia in Canada, to get the swab testing done without the knowledge of the major airlines. Subsequent testing by Professor Van Netten has revealed the presence of TCP in almost every sample across almost every type of modern passenger jet.
“We decided we would start doing our own because the airlines weren’t doing them,” says Loraine. “So to date, we have done swab testing on aircraft in the UK, in Australian and in North America and nearly all of them are coming back positive. What that means is that the neuro-toxin is on the walls of the passenger cabin and in the flight deck.”
The program interviews flight crew and passengers who have become chronically ill from exposure to fumes on commercial passenger aircraft, including former Ansett flight attendant Judy Cullinane, who won a confidential settlement from the Ansett insurers in 2002. She is critical that passengers flying on commercial jet are rarely told if they have been exposed to the known neuro-toxic fumes:
“They get off the aircraft sometimes feeling tired, sick, ill and they don’t know what they’ve been exposed to. It’s wrong. They should be told what they were exposed to, and how it can affect them. We all should be.”
Professor Winder is critical that neither CASA nor the commercial airline industry has ever done a scientific survey on the air in a plane while a bleed air system is leaking oil into the cabin air. He also says several key recommendations made in the 2000 Senate Inquiry report to Parliament have been ignored.
“All I want the aviation industry to do is to acknowledge that this is a real issue instead of pretending that it isn’t, which is what they’ve been doing,” Winder says.
The air safety watchdog, CASA, told SUNDAY that the long-term health effects of very frequent air travel were “not directly related to safety of flight” within the ambit of CASA’s statutory responsibilities. It acknowledged 138 fumes incidents had been reported on Australian aircraft in the past seven and a half years since the Senate inquiry hearings – a figure flight unions claim is not reflective of a much higher rate of incidents that go unreported.
Detailed questions on air contamination issues were also put to the peak aviation industry body IATA – the International Air Transport Association. No response was received at time of publication.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: At the pointy end, of course
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, as someone has already pointed out, it's not exactly full of vitamins and minerals (well, maybe minerals).
Meanwhile, another of our lot has had a serious incident. In spite of it being a very short flight and in spite of the crew donning masks immediately, the Captain was very ill after arriving in EMA. He was unable to finish his duty.
Meanwhile, another of our lot has had a serious incident. In spite of it being a very short flight and in spite of the crew donning masks immediately, the Captain was very ill after arriving in EMA. He was unable to finish his duty.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One simply cant ignore the possability of this being one of hysteria.
It is a well known fact that if one gets it in ones mind that something will make one sick it WILL make one sick!!!!
QED
It is a well known fact that if one gets it in ones mind that something will make one sick it WILL make one sick!!!!
QED
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK if you want to use phrases, how about "There's no smoke without fire."
People don't worry about things unless there is a reason for it. Things can get blown out of proportion, but fumes incidents are something that have been swept under the carpet for a long time, so have in reality been under investigated as the potential costs if a problem is found are astronomical.
So there has been a culture of not looking as the risks of finding something are too great. (Read too expensive.)
People don't worry about things unless there is a reason for it. Things can get blown out of proportion, but fumes incidents are something that have been swept under the carpet for a long time, so have in reality been under investigated as the potential costs if a problem is found are astronomical.
So there has been a culture of not looking as the risks of finding something are too great. (Read too expensive.)