Agent Oringe

I suspect All of the above. Info suggests that the 146 fleet are pretty p1ssed off at the moment so expect more of the same. Resignations tend to go in on the last day of the month due to their 3 months plus the rest of the month policy. The management thought they would get extra warning of impending resignations but the pilots saw through that one, so they still only get the 3 months notice. Most other companys these days seem to taylor courses to suit.

brain fade

I saw a sheet today saying where the combined fleet were to be based.

Sorry can't remember much of it- only had a wee glimpse- but saw that there will be two Barbies at GLA.

Get IN!

(Some of us GLA pilots have been commuting to EDI for 7 years!)

speedrestriction

How many TP operators operating in the British Isles are paying more than Flybe?

This is genuinely one of the most disappointing threads I have seen on PPRUNE in a long time. Far too much hearsay and too many throw-away remarks.

sr

FlyboyUK

I've noticed that BACON have just started a big advertising campaign around the Birmingham area. Lots of new radio and billboard ads across the city. Perhaps they were comitted to these before the announcement was made?

Fred Elliot

Tory,

'Noise from Exeter' is just that: noise. Nothing is decided. Certainly not seniority stuff. Management may leak their poison in an attempt to divide the workforces - they won't divide the CCs. If you want a 1% payrise - good luck. You just gave up the right to an opinion - or a voice for it anyway. Management may want this done and dusted by 22/12. Dream on. Not happening. This is going to take weeks to settle in principal and months if not years in fact. Let the wee Jock huff and puff all he likes - he'll just end up out of breath!

For ***** sake don't be decieved by rumor and propaganda.

Oh and Airlink; it is 19% for Q400 captain's by april 08. Just shows you know nuffink, dunnit?

flyingbug

Nice one Fred,

FB

Red Snake

It's a shame we cannot get some more solid information. I'm actually quite willing to give it a chance, but with all the rumours about BRS closing & a complete lack of commitment in any press release, we'd be fools not to look elsewhere (I'm BRS based), so I have several irons in the fire.

Come on Flybe: what are your plans for Bristol?

The no-hassle-option is to stay if there's a future at BRS and I probably would. But if I have to relocate, it won't be for a job on a turboprop. And I'm not waiting around for a decision if I get a better offer first.

What worries me is people seem to leaving from Flybe & BACon alike. For an acquisition to be successful, the first months are critical & good communication is vital. Also remember it's the good people who leave first - they have the most options and are snapped up by competitors. The ones left at the end were unable to find anything else - is that a recipe for success?

ivor toolbox

If you'd like to refer back to my post on previous page...or maybe page before that...you can read for yourself

ttfn

Red Snake

My point exactly. Why is it not communicated? While I have great respect for PPRuNe and the information contained within, it's hardly an appropriate communication vehicle for company policy.

I'm sure I'm not alone among many BACon pilots who are genuinely willing to give it a shot. But I'm within days now of signing for new job. Maybe Flybe needs a mass of resignations to avoid horrendous redundancy & relocations costs. If so, it's a sound strategy & I'll keep quiet.

Otherwise, so long, and thanks for all the fish.

brain fade

Snake

There is a proper printed sheet of paper with the summer fleet deployment on it.

More info through 'official' channels surely follows.

oapilot

No offence sr, but why are TP pilots paid so poorly compared to us jetgods???
moving from the Dash to the Embraer equalled a big pay rise for less work, so perhaps the point is why should a pilot doing the same job for the same airline have to put up with significantly less money just because they fly a modern quick and efficient TP.....

Flybe will have a TP/jet ratio of about 4:1 ultimately, so if pilots are going to work a LoCo regime, why do it for half the price of an Easy/Baby/FR pilot. If a stable experienced pilot workforce is required then pay the going rate for the job.

As I said before, people are speculating wildly because they feel insecure in the face of any real information

Anotherflapoperator

Without wishing to incur any wrath anywhere, or futher grief from any quarter, I was always led to believe the fundemental pay differentials for jet and TP pay was to do with economies of scale. TP aircraft only used to have 50-65 odd seats and jets were usually 100+, thus the revenues of operating the respective types, plus the relative seniority of the pilots operating such types made it work.

Young guns were starting out and thus would attract low salaries, as they were gaining good experience as well, and the older Skippers were often there to settle back towards retiement after a long career of long haul.

Of course, the modern world of 78 seat TPs and 50 seat jets turns that on it's head. The LoCo jet workload means they have to pay silly money to get enough quality folk to stay, and the TP still doesn't generate sufficient cash to pay the crews likewise. Originally, if I remember rightly, Manx/BRAL weren't going to pay the 145 crews the same as the 146 ones, for that very reason, but gave in quite quickly.

Having poled an ATP about for quite long enough, I wholy agree that the workload on a TP can be significantly higher at times. Life's not fair. Perhaps if the industry had agreed scales that ran on seat numbers it might be economically fairer, particularly to employers, as MOL would have to pay more to his 737-800 jockeys than Easy do for 737-700, but in reality as both pay their folk more or less as much as most other companies do 747/767/A340 crews, is that fair?

As gets continually mentioned, supply and demand is an essential economics model that applies to all areas of business life. If the scales for the Q400 produce empty seats and grounded aircraft, then the pay WILL have to go up. JF and every decent manager knows this. Ryanair pushing for possible pay cuts (as per another thread) is the direct result of so many of us wanting to join them...supply and demand.

Twas ever thus......

Xploy Ted

"Come on Flybe: what are your plans for Bristol?" says Red Snake and many other asking for info & rightly so.

The problem is would you believe it if they told you anything? Would you base a career altering decision (to go or stay) on a memo from management (anyone's) saying BRS is safe? I wouldn't.

Next alarm bell to ring is info via an SCC meeting. Management Lurve these. Consultation means diddley squat. They feed ideas, gauge the reaction & make it policy, or not, depending on the hassle level indicated.

If nobody threw chairs at them, it may be a runner. BACON is a recognised company. Recognition means that unless the agreement is formally cancelled, BACON CC have negotiation rights.

That is NOT the same as consultation. So, you all need recognition for Flybe CC & a joint effort from all of them, to negotiate something binding with management. A commitment. That said look at BACON, as one previous poster said "Future Size & Shape" all over again & again & again.

They probably don't even know themselves yet.

Then you need a streeetwise CC, who will not get eaten alive by managers who've done the "How to fcuk the union" course and know exactly how they intend to con everyone into thinking they're aiming for A, when in fact they'd looking atF or even Z.

It's a tough one & you need one tough joint CC effort. Good luck.

Sidings

Well said Xploy. That is exactly what is needed, and feedback I am receiving suggests the CC's are working well towards that aim. BACON CC has also had the considerable advantage of going through such a merger (or whatever you wish to call it) before. And some very well developed policy documents (which are to everybody's advantage). If we don't fight but unite then we ALL stand to gain. If any Flybe pilots would like to have some samples emailed to them then send me a PM. Integration of companies with similar policies would be a boon for Flybe pilots, and would improve retention no end (yes I have seen your seniority list and am well aware that OVER half your pilots have joined in last two years ). Introduce some lifestyle commitments and the ratio of those staying will be significantly more. Otherwise turnover will continue to rise, out of all control.

The Little Prince

Well Tandem me old chickadee, firstly being a mainliner, I should have thought you'd have been too busy preparing your brazier to be involved with what the mere mortals of 'Plastic BA' as you used to call us were doing, but thanks for the concern. In a nutshell, I really don't think there will be too much impact, it's going to be a long drawn out process, and it shouldn't necessarily affect too many people anyway. For example, when LoganAir finally sorted the Manxies out, although that was a bit irritating to some of the Fraggles, I don't think anyone actually got disadvantaged - pilots are funny really, they whinge over the most inconsequential things! As far as the big Emb is concerned, if you're at a base that gets them you'll have a better chance than if you're not. Remember that Loganair company, they didn't move people all over the UK and then back just to comply with a seniority list, they were pragmatic, and I reckon Jim will be too - after all, he has a business to run, and we are just units of labour in the final analysis. Of course, length of service is often parroted about too. It hasn't really done you a lot of good with BACON has it, and I don't believe it will with BACON-lite either. The choice is simple right now, a job with us, or no job. Argue about the flavour of the marmalade after you've got the slice of toast!!!!!
As for BA, well, , will anyone REALLY and truly trust them and join this new EDI operation? Phelan as the Chief Pot Walloper, omigod, you just CANNOT be serious!!!!!!! Hutchings lying close to his bruv-in-law, I mean, what chance has the outfit got? Nope, they are just using this as a method of keeping the LCY slots, and they care NOT ONE JOT for any of you.
Don'yt fall out with us, don't fall for the sh1tstirrers on here, just think how you would feel in our shoes, ask yourselves whether you want a job with Sleazy - good money but by jings you'll earn it. I reckon it'll take a long time to settle down, so still plenty of time to change your mind - look on the bright side, it's better than BA!!! Just read the BA pilots will strike thread if you doubt that!

Good luck everyone, Christmas is coming, goodwill to all men - except the BA management, may they catch a rotten tropical festering STD!

BluffOldSeaDog

That last bit just put a smile on my face 'twas a rather grey day

Xploy Ted

"BACON CC has also had the considerable advantage of going through such a merger (or whatever you wish to call it) before. "

Well do they? It was a different team. An awful lot was learned then it's true but it wasn't these guys.

Blackcap

Reuters; Published: Thursday, November 30, 2006
MOSCOW - The investigation into the death of former Russian spy turned up new links to Manchester yesterday as British Airways Connect reported that traces of a substance thought to be salmonella had been found on the majority of its planes that had flown to the BACON capital in recent weeks.
He fell ill on Nov. 1 after soon after eating “all day breakfast” whilst enroute to Manchester. Significant amounts of cholesterol and fatty deposits were also found in his body.

BA Connect is now trying to contact 3,000 passengers and 300 crew members who have been onboard aircrafts where traces of salmonella were found.

Yesterday the company announced that traces of salmonella were found in most of its aircrafts where food has been on sale. BACON did not specify the type of the substance, believed to emanate from crew food, but noted that the risk for people was very small. The contaminated planes are also grounded which may preclude the ongoing transfer of the airline to Flybe.

BluffOldSeaDog

That made me chortle a little more, thanks

remoak

Well, not really, no. The only ones who stand to gain are the BACON pilots. Even if they somehow manage to get their salaries red-ringed, flybe are never going to raise the T&Cs of their own crews - firstly because it would cost them a fortune, and secondly because it does not fit in with their long-held LoCo aspirations. This will, of course, create some issues with the existing crews.

The only way the lifestyle of the existing flybe crews is ever going to improve, is if flybe invest millions in the infrastructure that they have needed for many years now, but which the management have steadfastly refused to implement. More to the point, I don't see that BACON have a significantly better infrastructure that could be put in place in the new airline, for little or no cost - because if it costs anything, it won't happen.

If I were the flybe pilots, I would be voting against anything that placed a BACON pilot higher up the seniority list than any flybe pilot, and anything that allowed the BACON pilots to join on a better package that any flybe pilot is on.

However, I suspect that what will actually happen, is that the flybe CC will quietly cave, and a deal will be struck that ensures the short-term stability of the larger flybe. Very sad too.