Flatspin Fumble

Bacon Slicer,

JF has already stated that it was the lack of investment from BA that has lead to where we are all at now.So, I dispute your reasoning. I agree BA Connect have an excellent Sch. Agreement so what is your problem with trying to pass some of that onto Flybe? They will gain much .The finest asset a company has is its employee, so what's your problem with trying to have a good deal.

I agree with your statement regarding J class travel for Captains, why should they be eligible for it? As a Captain myself, I think it ought to be offered to the First Officer as well.

Have a nice day.

Flatspin Fumble

The Little Prince

So what's your problem? That would seem to safeguard you all until Jim sends your aircraft packing, which will take six months to a year I would think. The seniority list will presumably not affect anything until your lossmaking aeroplanes are sent back - so you have a perfect opportunity to try the water, and if you don't like Flybe, then move onwards without any of this angst!¬ It's not as though we're insisting on instant changes of ANY description, in fact since you'll initially be keeping your Ts and Cs, you'll be better off than most of US!
For the life of me, I don't understand your problems (you basically stayed too long in an airline you hated run by a bunch of incompetent crunts ( ) because you either lacked the bottle to go, or thought you could defy the laws of economics. )
Now, as it all ends in tears, instead of the dole queue, you have a chance to try out a new airline for free, and STILL move on if you know better. There's no point blaming us for your demise, after all, if your managers were worth a flying fock you'd have put us out of business!! It's incredible that you think you will start telling US how it's going to be, clearly a communications technique you have acquired from your management. There's absolutley no need to fall out - if you don't want to stay - then go. Do you think those of you joining EZY, or FR, or any other airline at all will be able to dictate your terms? Then why do you think you can with us? You're pushing on a piece of string people, it cannot, and will not work.
As Baconslicer says so eloquently It's not mandatory, but if you don't, then expect to go hungry.

brain fade

Look Bacon

Put your thinking head on for a minute!

As you correctly pointed out, there were plenty of reasons for BACons loss making.

Do you think the pilots salaries were really the big problem?

As for the 'day off' and 'disruption' payments. All these did was to allow the company to get by when it was short of people. Running short of people must have SAVED the company a fortune in unpaid salary.

Having half decent t's & c's also encouraged those not hacked off by our management to stick around (until they themselves were f*cked about), thus saving a fortune in training costs.

Fly be's staff turnover is appalling.

Your lot made about £20m last year. I'll bet that goes up with the expansion.

So why do you continually make the case for your own piss poor conditions?

Its not as if they couldn't share it out a bit and probably reduce the turnover in staff at the same time. (I know fo's are inclined to leave anyway but there are plenty of 'regional' folk who like to live where they live and get home most nights).

You guys need to get your **** together and this join up of companies is your best (only?) chance.

Tell you another thing slice. You ain't seen f*ck all yet. When Flybe gets sold in a year or two- and it WILL be floated- a world of **** will descend on you as the shareholders demand more and more as they always do.

It would be good advice to get a bit of a deal sorted now because after it floats you never will.

The locos in the UK tend to be good payers. Why are you so keen to buck the trend?

Flatspin Fumble

Hey Brain Fade,

Could not have put that better myself in more eloquent language.

FF

Captain Correlli

I really don't care what my seniority number is as long as it doesn't move me gepgraphically or from the LHS - oh, or give me a pay cut. None of those things is likely to happen, though maybe the paycut thing looms on the horizon in about two years (TUPE). So actually, I'm with TLP. It really doesn't matter in the short, or even the medium term, and even if they tried their hardest, I can't see how Flybe would manage to move me as much as BACon/BACX did (that's three bases in three years, and there are worse examples than me!). I've got my orange interview coming up, but the basing policy is a little weird in terms of notification. I'm also talking to Globespan and even Ryanair, it helps to have as many options as possible. I don't believe my position on an as yet non-existent joint seniority list is actually going to make much difference to my options, even if I decide to stay and maybe fly a TP again in due course. Kids, schools, family.....these are what matters, and Hutchings and his clique have consistently demonstrated ZERO commitment to helping me with those priorities. Flybe can only be an improvement, but then again, maybe it's time to move out of a third level airline permanently and get a proper job.

Bacon Slicer

Does nobody work weekends at Bacon????

Flatspin Fumble

did you not realise that's part of the scheduling agreement.

Smokie

We certainly looked at your scheduling agreement and Easys as well.
The comment from our management was "Over our dead Bodies"
If you wish to come and join us then don't expect any miracles because there is no way that you are going to pull that particular rabbit out of the hat.

Gaining more crews will not enhance our lifestyles that's for sure, it will simply mean that there are more of us to Dick around.



Plus le change plus ce le mêmeschose!

Uncle Silas

Yeah, working weekends is a big no-no unless it generates a disruption payment along with the extra sector dosh! It helps if it starts on a day off too! You Flybe people have a lot to learn, but don't worry, because if you're lucky enough to get both our management and our Company Council, then you have all the elements (hey you have US, the staff as well!!!! ) which made Manx/BRAL/BACX/BACON such a successful and envied force in the Regional Airline World. Now, all we need is to renegotiate our staff travel perks, and get a nicer uniform! We'll make you all welcome in our brave new world, Jim French has a lot to learn about "Big Boys Airlines" but we've got JUST the chaps to show him how it's done.

PS - I think that should read " Plus c'a change, c'est plus la même chose"

Maximuss

Spent last night on the p1ss with a Flybe crew - amazing, you actually have two arms and legs and only one head - just like us! You seem to have a better opinion of your managers, and a lot of you are apparently just wanting to move on to heavier metal and more money. (That'll sort the seniority problem). Seems to me if you're all like that this stands a good chance of working - oh, and if that cabin crew are anything to go by, your recruiting policy is bl00dy marvellous, talkabout sex on a stick!!!!

Cornflake

Has anyone got anything new to say, this thread is degenerating into nonsense.

bermudatriangle

Check the website BA.COM and check availability and prices for all current BA Connect routes and they are all still selling,with schedules as per dash/RJ,Embraer.No mention of this flight may be operated by FLYBE.I suggest we all await further developments before assuming what may or may not happen.I think someone is testing the waters here and we are all too keen to bite.

Fred Elliot

Lots of views and almost equal amounts of utter drivel!!

Two things are certain at the moment:

1. NOTHING is decided .

2. Any jumped up Johnny no-neck incipient Nigel who couldn't cut it and then comes into Flybe trying to order us around is going to get NOWHERE!!

You'd be sensible to be happy to (still) have a job - oh, and don't give us all that "The company's perfectly great, it's all the management's fault" B*ll*cks - sit in the corner quietly and learn how your new colleagues do business. Oh, and BTW, that'll be looking up from the BOTTOM of OUR seniority list.

Could be better for everyone if the whole due diligence thing collapses.

Certainly simpler.

oapilot

Some fair points Fred, although would suggest that if this deal does go through, anyone from either side of the fence who thinks they can Lord it will get what they deserve.

Think LTP summed it up nicely, and I suspect that is what a lot of folk will do, and the majority will give it a damned good try. But please, don't expect us to carry your bag and shine your shoes everyday out of gratitude.

Capt. Horrendous

IF this thing is going to work, some form of sensible compromise surely has to be found. It is an emotive subject, agreed, but if a mutually acceptable formula for integration is not forthcoming, the workforce will be so divided as to make the whole thing untenable.

FlyBE's ambitious expansion plans are linked with aquiring at a shed load of pilots, many of them command qualified or capable. They will not be able to do that without this deal - to believe that most redundant BACon pilots would come to work for FlyBE is wishful thinking in today's pilot market.

A bigger airline is going to be better for all concerned - if you consider for a moment the scale of expansion, opportunities for existing FlyBE pilots will most likely better should the deal be done even with a merged seniority list, rather than if the deal falls through.

on the subject of seniority lists, which group would be in the majority on any new joint list, existing FlyBE or former BACon ?.

Thumperdown

1. agreed
2. Any jumped up Jonny from either company who comes trying to order anybody around will get NOWHERE!! - agreed
Be happy to still have a job - agreed
We recognise you have not had the BA noose around your neck and have been allowed to get on with it - well done your management who have been free to manage in a practical manner.
The above viewed from an equal perspective on the seniority list - I would expect
You and your colleagues stand to benefit considerably from the takeover (word chosen with reality in mind) - even if ir does delay your progress in the short term!!!

Certainly simpler - life isn't easy!

Capt Horrendous
There are more BACON pilots who are relatively senior and with a lot more experience generally than flybe middle of the field guys. There are also some very senior flybe guys who are also very experienced. - what would you do?

notac

All this macho talk makes me laugh. Lets face it at the end of the day you will all do whatever it is Jim French wants you to do. As a workforce you have no say what so ever in the outcome of the take over. You may have a cc but JF will pay no attention to them.

Its an unfortunate situation but you are all powerless and will end up doing whatever the accountants consider best.

The reality we all need to wake up to, as a pilot we are not consulted or considered an important part of the decision making process, but instead a pawn that will be told what to do

Thumperdown

Oh No No! - I think we will all do whatever the two CC's agree with JF. JF will do the business with the CC and all will abide by the outcome. The accountants will do what JF says and he will have agreed this with the CC having taken due regard of the accountant input. Pilots are generally awake very early in the morning, will be consulted, and are probably one of the most "important parts of the decision making process" and never shall be the pawn.

RED WINGS

Bacon your right BAcon usually get at leat one day off at the weekend as that is fair.

As for T&C just look at your seniority list doesnt take a genius!!

And as has been stated daft disruption payments are hell of a lot cheaper than sub charter or worse still canx flts with loss of good will from the punters.

I remeber when BHX BHD flights started many friends of mine were over joyed as BACon launched flights as they were pi$$ed of with flybe (there opinion not mine!) So maybe schedule agreements breed more loyal and content staff which comes accross to the pax!

But then im sure you will be happy when the management come around at night at the end of a shift and chain us all up in the hold overnight so we are already in for the early.....I do hope the ground staff take pity and bring us a bowl of water.

Come on join the real world lets work on improving all our lives instead of b!tching like a load of school girls, and for the record I dont give a toss about seniority as long as I keep my current base and dont get ten grand slashed of my pay packet which will happen if forced onto year 1 flybe D8 salary, and for the record I would be very happy flying the dash again!!!

Rant over!

marlowe

Flybe why dont you call the BAcon pilots out to the car park and you can all settle your differences the old fashioned way! cos you are all sounding pathetic on here. What we have her is an opportunity for both groups to be at the start of something great, BUT only if we all work together and stop this childish behaviour, both groups have to realise that what you had before is not what your gonna get in the future we are all gonna have to compromise. Flybe pilots you have to realise that jimbo has smelt the BA money and he wants it, 106 million i believe, If the Flybe way is so great and the business plan so strong you are gonna all be job secure with a regular income anyway, so why does Jimbo want to take on the wreck that is BACON? Flybe as you have all known it is as defunct as BACON is because Flybe are gonna have to think a lot lot bigger than they have in the past, as the pamphlet that was sent to everybody states, we will be the largest regional airline in europe, well ok so we have to now start thinking and acting like that!!!