FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
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Bad Press
Forgive me for having not read all 20 pages of this thread before posting, but has anybody considered contacting such tabloids as the Mail & the Express to let them know about London Heathrow Airways' Christmas present to all of us and our families - ie mass redundancies and job cuts. 
A good friend of mine said to me a few months ago that BA would never pull out of the regions because just imagine the bad publicity they would get.
Now that they've told us, I say get 'em!
MB
A good friend of mine said to me a few months ago that BA would never pull out of the regions because just imagine the bad publicity they would get.
Now that they've told us, I say get 'em!
MB
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Captain I was flying with the other day said that Hutchings was on a 737 course for a LGW basing (RHS of course). I don't know how true this is, but I would have thought that BA would give them some crumb of comfort now that their little fiefdom has disappeared. A far cry from the glory days of the fraggle rock mafia. How the mighty do fall!
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Flap operator,
If it is true that these two are on the BA seniority list I simply do not accept that thay deserve anything but the utmost contempt for running away from the cinders of BACON like this. They were complicit in what has happened and all the while were feathering their own nest. This is one of the worst cases of self-preservation and 'I'm-all-right-jack' I have ever heard of.
If it is true that these two are on the BA seniority list I simply do not accept that thay deserve anything but the utmost contempt for running away from the cinders of BACON like this. They were complicit in what has happened and all the while were feathering their own nest. This is one of the worst cases of self-preservation and 'I'm-all-right-jack' I have ever heard of.
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If, and I stress if. this is true then no condemnation would be strong enough.
Dont give us this "the poor boys were only doing their job Sh9te". Time and time again PH has told us that he had no BA contract in his back pocket and that his fate was the same as ours. He ran around after the despised and loathed De La F like a willing lapdog and revelled in being his chosen son.
This has been a dark and vile period under BA's heels. Granted the boys may not have been the architects of all the rubbish that has been dumped on us, but as enthusiastic and willing apologists for the BA cretins who have trashed our lives a million times over by grotesque incompetence, the boys stand condemned.
If this is true Id advise said gents not to show up in our crew room.
Dont give us this "the poor boys were only doing their job Sh9te". Time and time again PH has told us that he had no BA contract in his back pocket and that his fate was the same as ours. He ran around after the despised and loathed De La F like a willing lapdog and revelled in being his chosen son.
This has been a dark and vile period under BA's heels. Granted the boys may not have been the architects of all the rubbish that has been dumped on us, but as enthusiastic and willing apologists for the BA cretins who have trashed our lives a million times over by grotesque incompetence, the boys stand condemned.
If this is true Id advise said gents not to show up in our crew room.
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From what I remember, Paul H passed the BA selection tests years ago and elected to stay at Manx because Norman was grooming him for management, if true, I've no problem with him moving to mainline. Most of the piss poor decisions (perhaps except for the callsigns) were made well over his head, and he and is Brother in law got far more flak than they honestly deserve
If either of these clowns appear on the mainline seniority list (and remember they will then have managerial rights to command) then there are troubled times ahead in mainline.
Last edited by Mandarin; 18th Nov 2006 at 18:23.
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If it is true that PH and others have appeared on the mainline seniority list, then everyone in BACON should have the same right I would have thought! BALPA's thoughts??
I say lets get the SUN on the case, they run the country anyway! I dont know exact numbers but the way its looking nearly as many people are going to be laid off as when Rover was "sold off!" But without the public outcry.
Its not just "BA" employees, talking to people on my travels at work the guys who drive us around on the ground are also very worried, along with many of our third party contractors.
Its time for action!!! before we all end up "working" for MOL!!!!!!!!!!! on the 737 slave ship!!!
I say lets get the SUN on the case, they run the country anyway! I dont know exact numbers but the way its looking nearly as many people are going to be laid off as when Rover was "sold off!" But without the public outcry.
Its not just "BA" employees, talking to people on my travels at work the guys who drive us around on the ground are also very worried, along with many of our third party contractors.
Its time for action!!! before we all end up "working" for MOL!!!!!!!!!!! on the 737 slave ship!!!
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What is particularly interesting is about 10 months ago the tossers, sorry non-management decided to do a "non flying related qualification" trawl.
This started and ended at BRS apparently after it was very quickly assertained that 8/10 crew, both sides of the FD door, were more management qualified than "the management".
This would have had huge implications. For example, somebody actually having an understanding of strategic management, planning, logistics, finance, HR, change management, MBA etc would pose a threat to an un-successful operation.
The current beleif at BHX is that C**t Evans will be kept in a closet at Waterworld and run out when something needs screwing up: "...here you go DE, give it your best effort..." etc.
The bulletin board is worth a read at the mo! Lots of talk about going to the press. How about speaking to Working Lunch? They always love a good battle and they will do a darn good job I think - was compulsory viewing during my student days on my, yes you guessed it, business based degree at one of the top 5 business schools in Europe.
Still, I couldn't know anyting about running an airline. No similarities at all.
Yours,
BS
PS: Name of the knew company: Flybe Connect
This started and ended at BRS apparently after it was very quickly assertained that 8/10 crew, both sides of the FD door, were more management qualified than "the management".
This would have had huge implications. For example, somebody actually having an understanding of strategic management, planning, logistics, finance, HR, change management, MBA etc would pose a threat to an un-successful operation.
The current beleif at BHX is that C**t Evans will be kept in a closet at Waterworld and run out when something needs screwing up: "...here you go DE, give it your best effort..." etc.
The bulletin board is worth a read at the mo! Lots of talk about going to the press. How about speaking to Working Lunch? They always love a good battle and they will do a darn good job I think - was compulsory viewing during my student days on my, yes you guessed it, business based degree at one of the top 5 business schools in Europe.
Still, I couldn't know anyting about running an airline. No similarities at all.
Yours,
BS
PS: Name of the knew company: Flybe Connect
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Suggestion: the more you guys and gals argue amongst yourselves, the more likely it becomes that Jim French (your new boss) will simply walk away from the deal. He'll then stand at the factory gate with new contracts for the pilots and cabin staff he actually wants and you will have saved the Company Councils alot of hard work.
Fact: the name of the company will be Flybe. Why would it change? This is a takeover, not a merger. Nobody will be forced to join/ stay with Flybe but the only option on offer is no job at all.
Sorry, but that's the fact.
Fact: the name of the company will be Flybe. Why would it change? This is a takeover, not a merger. Nobody will be forced to join/ stay with Flybe but the only option on offer is no job at all.
Sorry, but that's the fact.
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Rover.
Red Wings - you have made an important point -
" say lets get the SUN on the case, they run the country anyway! I dont know exact numbers but the way its looking nearly as many people are going to be laid off as when Rover was "sold off!" But without the public outcry."
If it is true that redundancy numbers will be similar then there is indeed a story. The press are not so ready to report the problems experienced by pilots, as we are percieved as highly paid professionals who do not need sympathy. Not so the ground staff, who are people that readers will identify with.
The idea of Flybe walking away due to bad publicity is a nonsense. The whole deal should be subjected to maximum scrutiny by as many as possible.
Does anyone have a press contact?
" say lets get the SUN on the case, they run the country anyway! I dont know exact numbers but the way its looking nearly as many people are going to be laid off as when Rover was "sold off!" But without the public outcry."
If it is true that redundancy numbers will be similar then there is indeed a story. The press are not so ready to report the problems experienced by pilots, as we are percieved as highly paid professionals who do not need sympathy. Not so the ground staff, who are people that readers will identify with.
The idea of Flybe walking away due to bad publicity is a nonsense. The whole deal should be subjected to maximum scrutiny by as many as possible.
Does anyone have a press contact?
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you're missing the point Ted.
It goes this way - Flybe don't do ground services, so go figure.
If Bacon is not in a fit - ie industrially settled - state to be bought, JF won't buy it. Simple. Its BAs problem to solve, not his. WW solves HIS problem by shutting the whole issue down.
I'm not suggesting that JF gives a hoot about bad press. In fact, you let Willy shut you down and then JF can be the knight in shining armour, rescuing something from the wreckage.
It goes this way - Flybe don't do ground services, so go figure.
If Bacon is not in a fit - ie industrially settled - state to be bought, JF won't buy it. Simple. Its BAs problem to solve, not his. WW solves HIS problem by shutting the whole issue down.
I'm not suggesting that JF gives a hoot about bad press. In fact, you let Willy shut you down and then JF can be the knight in shining armour, rescuing something from the wreckage.
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There is no real Union muscle or industrial unrest at BACON. If there was do you really think we'd be where we are today. Not the fault of the CC they do a good job with the limited support they get from the majority of us, I include myself in that. The BAR crew were heavily uionised but they are now long gone. The ground staff, despite being excellent, are going to be too expensive for Fly Be and will unfortunately go the same way as MAN, GLA, EDI, etc.. A big loss. Being realistic we are where we are and we all now need to make the best of it. I don't expect to be anywhere but on the bottom of the Fly Be seniority list. I don't expect to lose my LHS because Fly Be need Q400 captains. I expect to be flying the 145 for at least another 6-12 months (they can't get rid of them any quicker and can't train the crews even if they could). At that point I'm sure I will be handed a Fly Be contract with Fly Be T & Cs and the offer of a Q400 course or the door. Not everyone can get a job at Baby, Easy or Ryanair !
The deals done. The best thing to do now is all work together to try an improve all our T & Cs at Fly Be (being realistic of course! we ain't getting a scheduling agreement or disruption !)
Good luck to everyone and hope you all get where you want to be.
The deals done. The best thing to do now is all work together to try an improve all our T & Cs at Fly Be (being realistic of course! we ain't getting a scheduling agreement or disruption !)
Good luck to everyone and hope you all get where you want to be.
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Ultimately,
JSY's t's and c's are non-existent which is why Flybe staff are leaving and the CC's are going to have so much work on their hands.
I, for one, will be fighting tooth and nail all the way to regain whatever I can until I manage to bang out from this mess into a decent company. Nothing against the -400 and Le Grand Fromage is a good bloke but don't fancy taking a backward step. So until my 145 gets sent back I'll just fly the line and nothing more.
If people are prepared to treat their staff this badly then goodwill is going to disappear at an alarmingly quick pace. The problems that cropped up as a result of the Brymon/BRAL/Manx merger are still on going, so THIS is not going to be over quickly.
All you deluded souls at Flybe should be under no illusion about the state of play. People are not just going to accept being slung on the bottom of some seniority list etc. It may be a take-over; fair enough, s*** happens, but that should not negate a corporate responsibility for people skills. Merging lists would at least restore some sort of faith in people management. To be frank, that is just the tip of the ice berg and people will be singing off different hymn sheets for a while to come.
This attempt to stop the Flybe pilot exodous is already looking futile. Most of us have applications in with other operators already as a result of BACON mis-management. Even more CV's are out now because everyone is concious about being the last one to use the escape rope! Even our sub 1000hr guys have now got enough experience to fox oscar so they aren't really too fussed about seeing if the phoenix emerges either.
Resistance to change is a big problem in British industry and to be honest, I could never understand why as it is of vital importance for businesses to react to the ever changing demands of relative markets. Now however, I see why this is the case. Complete disregard for employee welfare. Why should people be willing to change if they are not treated correctly in the first place?
BugSpeed
JSY's t's and c's are non-existent which is why Flybe staff are leaving and the CC's are going to have so much work on their hands.
I, for one, will be fighting tooth and nail all the way to regain whatever I can until I manage to bang out from this mess into a decent company. Nothing against the -400 and Le Grand Fromage is a good bloke but don't fancy taking a backward step. So until my 145 gets sent back I'll just fly the line and nothing more.
If people are prepared to treat their staff this badly then goodwill is going to disappear at an alarmingly quick pace. The problems that cropped up as a result of the Brymon/BRAL/Manx merger are still on going, so THIS is not going to be over quickly.
All you deluded souls at Flybe should be under no illusion about the state of play. People are not just going to accept being slung on the bottom of some seniority list etc. It may be a take-over; fair enough, s*** happens, but that should not negate a corporate responsibility for people skills. Merging lists would at least restore some sort of faith in people management. To be frank, that is just the tip of the ice berg and people will be singing off different hymn sheets for a while to come.
This attempt to stop the Flybe pilot exodous is already looking futile. Most of us have applications in with other operators already as a result of BACON mis-management. Even more CV's are out now because everyone is concious about being the last one to use the escape rope! Even our sub 1000hr guys have now got enough experience to fox oscar so they aren't really too fussed about seeing if the phoenix emerges either.
Resistance to change is a big problem in British industry and to be honest, I could never understand why as it is of vital importance for businesses to react to the ever changing demands of relative markets. Now however, I see why this is the case. Complete disregard for employee welfare. Why should people be willing to change if they are not treated correctly in the first place?
BugSpeed
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Well said bug speed. I too am under no illusions. I expect to be dumped at the bottom of the flybe list and be offered flybe terms and conditions when my BACON contract runs out in march.
Since there are currently 68 first officers on the BACON seniority list ahead of me awaiting commands I also expect to be offered the RHS of a trash 8 with flybe turbo prop pay.
Ryanair has never looked so attractive.
Since there are currently 68 first officers on the BACON seniority list ahead of me awaiting commands I also expect to be offered the RHS of a trash 8 with flybe turbo prop pay.
Ryanair has never looked so attractive.
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Oh dear, CheekyVisual, what a defeatist attitude! No wonder the BALPA CC has trouble pressing for decent Ts & Cs when some of the membership are so ashamedly weak. I bet you were bullied at school too!
If you don't stand up for yourself you will always be someones lackey. But it seems obvious from your post that you are content to be at the bottom of the seniority list, will take any contract offered to you and will fly anything from any base provided it pleases your masters.
Thank goodness there are enough members who have a bit of backbone and are willing to put up a fight to secure a fair and just intergration of two equally sized operations. Fortunately both FlyBe and Bacon CCs are pragmatic enough to pursue such a goal.
If you don't stand up for yourself you will always be someones lackey. But it seems obvious from your post that you are content to be at the bottom of the seniority list, will take any contract offered to you and will fly anything from any base provided it pleases your masters.
Thank goodness there are enough members who have a bit of backbone and are willing to put up a fight to secure a fair and just intergration of two equally sized operations. Fortunately both FlyBe and Bacon CCs are pragmatic enough to pursue such a goal.
Last edited by aviator42long; 22nd Nov 2006 at 21:12. Reason: typo
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Mandarin,
It is true that PH passed the BA selection and was subsequently offered a job on the 747-400. He later turned it down, having been given the nod by Norman. In those days he was just one of the lads and even managed to get disqualified from driving after one night out! I used to get on well with him, as did most, until he began his ascent of the greasy pole.
His brother in law is another matter entirely. The 'puffy chested one' had a ludicrously high self esteem and yet was sadly lacking in whit, charm and character.
I'm not particularly interested in their fate but I do have great sympathy for the remainder of the workforce.
It is true that PH passed the BA selection and was subsequently offered a job on the 747-400. He later turned it down, having been given the nod by Norman. In those days he was just one of the lads and even managed to get disqualified from driving after one night out! I used to get on well with him, as did most, until he began his ascent of the greasy pole.
His brother in law is another matter entirely. The 'puffy chested one' had a ludicrously high self esteem and yet was sadly lacking in whit, charm and character.
I'm not particularly interested in their fate but I do have great sympathy for the remainder of the workforce.