NdekePilot

Head East!!
NP

wobble2plank

BA Management can't catch STD's, they're eunuchs, no balls for anything

Torycanyon

There is currnetly a Poll running on the Flying Be web site.
94% of the voters are voting for BACon to go to the bottom of the Seniority List and quite rightly so.

If the Our CC except anything else, there will be a Riot.

rhythm method

More like a minor scuffle!

Thumperdown

At least we know there are 6% of reasonable people at flybe.
Which means that out of all 16 that voted, only 15 are numpties!

Regards
Thumper

Hirsutesme

Like any poll, it rather depends on the questions that are asked.

The Little Prince

I really DID try and tell you all - you can hardly blame us. I think you need to think how you would react if the situation were reversed, and think honestly.
Notwithstanding all of that, I've heard there is some issue with the due diligence, and things look a bit more complicated. Apparently some very private telephone calls and hurried meetings been set up at our senior management level and some involving the BAheads. Whatever.
A question though, one thing worrying a lot of us is which of your management are likely to try and slink across? The Fromage has mentioned a couple of names which fill me and my colleagues with dread, Deacon and Deverall to be specific .........come on boys let's have some info please!

I also hear that the base equipment is likely to be slower than first thought, which may mean you hanging onto the 146s for longer than was thought, although INV wasn't included in that particular thread. I don't know how much of this is factoid, just reporting 1st hand goss and opening things up for discussion.
Finally, again out of interest, how many of your guys are REALLY leaving as opposed to those who have got positions and have, or are about to hand in notice? Do you think there will be a lot of escapees from BACON-Lite who can't stomach the thought of Phelan up at Edinburgh and the death of another two years worth of BACON-Slicing before BA finally close everything? I understand that some of the management have been given a choice as to which way they jump, but may not have gone public with the news yet.

Noiffsorbuts

TLP. Not in any order.

94% of how many?? Interestingly it seems that the average service of your guys is half ours.................Fifty percent of yours joined in the last two years???

Discuss!

Yes your man Cheese getting up close warm and personal with his old trainer mates en masse. Trying to pursuade a load to come on over. All sorts of hush hush conversations in whispers. Lots of promises. Deacon and the Old Eatonian Smart on the list by all accounts.

Hard news is that sixty pilots working notice at Bacon presently. Someone said about twenty from your lot.........?

The sooner this thing is put to bed the better for all concerned.

Thumperdown

Deacon won't go - he and fromage are a little danish blue! - Deverall would be an asset.

biddedout

But Deacs is the one with ownership of the company brain and a certificate to prove it. He has concentrated on his technical stuff and unlike others has been wise enough not to go charging into people managing HR stuff with both feet and with no experience training or support. PH was the only other one quick wited enough to pick it up as he went along and to learn from others the hoof. Will be interesting to see how DD gets on in his new more complex role. He has my vote though. Could do worse.

wacky

(note I have not included the question marks as it is fact.)

For comparison, just 19% of ours joined in the last two years.

At our 50% point people still have over 8 years seniority (only 20% of yours have that).

32% of ours have over 10 years seniority (11% of yours).

5% of ours have over 19 years seniority (woops - none of yours).

But this isn't about domination. This is about real life and experience. We understand that your FO's don't have enough hours to become Captains. We understand that jobs are safeguarded. Look at the policies that we have in place - nobody can displace people already in positions. Base protection. Rostering protection from day to day crewing disasters. Real career progression prospects (least up until now). A decent company council who made real achievements compared to how things used to be. Yet we are now expected to turn the clocks back 10 years and resume a life where we are dicked about from dawn till dusk with no compensation and no prospects.

As a united front we can improve things for everyone. Try it - and a few more people may stay around for more than two years.

brain fade

Well said Wacky

To hear some of the Flybes' comments on here, one would be forgiven for thinking they are actually proud of their crappy t's & c's!

At least the new company might gain some elements of BACons scheduling agreement which must be of benefit to all, including the company btw.

Lets face it FLYbe is not exactly the airline of choice at the moment unless you only have 250 hours of course.

I certainly would not be applying if BA hadn't pulled the plug at BACon but perhaps the combined airline will be a force to be reckoned with and turn out to be a good long term prospect as an employer. I hope so and with the extra quite experienced ex BACon crews aboard that likelyhood must increase.

A lot are leaving for sure at the moment tho' but many will go over to Flybe to try the water. If it's too cold it'll be ta-ta.

I'm hoping for the best.

rhythm method

Wacky, well said.

Flybe pilots have SOOOOOO much to gain by even getting a compromise increase in their terms and conditions to something nearer what should befit a regional airline lifestyle (and let's not get caught up in the propaganda... you are not a loco airline, you are a regional airline trying to offer an alternative to big LoCos).

How many times have you had family commitments arranged for an afternoon after your early shift, only to find you HAVE to do extra sectors? What about changes to your published roster, meaning that you can't organise to collect the kids from school, or go to their school play?

The scheduling agreement will protect all that (and you had a chance to get it right from day 1 as I copied ALL our relevant docs to some flybe crew when you were attempting to get your agreements in place... but you didn't have the wit to ask for the limits and accept a compromise)...

... this can be your chance to put those errors to bed once and for all.

Waken up and smell the coffee... there are the makings of a fantastic new airline at hand, but selfish protectionist attitudes will put that at risk for ever. A proper scheduling agreement should not cost an airline ANYTHING in real terms, but can provide the basis for a contented loyal workforce who do not feel the need to look elsewhere for employment. Flybe have probably been losing a fortune in training costs over recent years... unnecessarily.

Both pilot communities MUST work together now and stop this childish bickering for the best outcome of this BA fiasco!

Chesty Morgan

...and...
...are not mutually exclusive.

Are you really saying that IF you all go to the bottom of the Flybe seniority list, as the majority of Flybe pilots think you should (protectionist? Too right), then YOU will not fight for an improved scheduling agreement alongside your new colleagues? On the contrary I think that you would be much more motivated.

Selfish? Moi?

Bacon Slicer

Brain Fade , wacky, rythem method.

It is FlyBe who have kicked BACON in to touch. It is the BACON terms and conditions that has made it NON VIABLE! period.

Bacon Slicer

The whole set up was wrong from day 1!

1) BA ground crews
2) BA Check in
3) BA Handling
3a) Richards headset wipes!
4) World wide travel
5) The whole infrastructure i.e BHX below terminal 2
6) BA cleaners - for god's sake
7) Free busines class for Captains
8) Positioning crew lounge access
9) uniform in the sim
10)hats from the terminal to the staff car park or face a court marshall!
11)Electronic flt monitoring that was considered more important than the overall picture.
12)Didsbury management more akin to the Masons than an airline.


An airline with unsuitable aeroplanes/ an unsuitable ethos./ no business plan in the most aggresive aviation market in the world - it failed! ( no brainer).

Exeter runs the most viable regional airline in Europe if not the world - and I do not even work @ FlyBe anymore but I respect what they do. Welcome to the real world boy's. I imagine the ex Brymon pilots are more suitable to the change to living on planet earth , - the others will need oxygen and stay in orbit.

brain fade

BACON Slicer

Oh Perleeeease!

1. BA ground crews. agree
2. BA check in. agree (but what else would bacon use ffs)
3. BA handling. agree in spades
4. Richards wipes. wot??
5. Infrastucture. Agree. going soon!
6. BA cleaners. not where i work.
7. Free bus class for capts. Whats wrong with that? Still subload. You jealous?
8. Pos crew lounge access. NOt always but nice sometimes. no extra cost anyway so why not. Do you insist on 'steerage' class for yourself? If so, why?
9. Uniform in the sim. You wear it in the plane don't you? It's meant to simulate a day at work. No big deal tho'.
10. Hats. Mine keeps my head dry when it rains and my specs dry too. Again no big deal tho'.
11. Electronic flight monitoring. You've lost me here dude!
12. Didsbury 'management'. agree!

OK so 'no comment' from you about the scheduling agreement then? Now many of the 12 points you raised ARE significant in BACons downfall, but..................even you don't say the scheduling agreement is to blame!

Lets face it. If the company has no sby and one of the crew is sick the choice is:
1. Cancel
2. Hire Titan at £8000/ hour to operate the trip
3. Bung a guy on a day off some dough to come in and fly

You choose!

Next thing these Flybe guys will be saying: 'Shoebox in't middle of road? You were lucky!'

rhythm method

Just decided to do a quick view through Bacon Slicer's other posts...

A view on anything and everything, and not a good word to say about anyone.

tallaonehotel

Any of BAcons management would be bad news to any company, never mind FLYbe. I hope Mr French is awake to these pricks who have messed up so many lives.
FLYbe will make the correct choice on how to move forward, but for the future make sure Phelan, Deacon, Hutchings, Evans and Witts etc have no part in regional flying in the UK.

Bacon Slicer

Brain fade - you say I have no comment on the scheduling agreement

I agree we all need to maintain a " work/life balance" but just take a look at the airlines that have survived. They do not have such lavish scheduling agreements as the one BACON had in place. My point is that Airlines are business's and have to make money and the agreement such as that at BAconnect COST the airline along with all the other frills that formed the cancer that killed the airline along with the muppets of Didsbury. - The real world is out there but remember to bring your own sandwiches.