FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
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the largest regional airline in europe
I'm sure I heard something similar at the creation of bacon! Didn't seem to do them much good.
Don't forget guys. Only a year ago, even flybe pilots themselves were worried about the perilous state of the company's finances.
Also this 'project' is, at best, an experiment! An airline based on turbo props, and the Toy Town Jet (TTJ) may work. But Easy, Baby, and Ryan, all think there's a better model!! There's NO guarantees!
It's amazing how predictable this industry is. Not too long ago, it was the bacon pilots crowing about how cheap they were in comparison to the people who's jobs they took. Now it seems even they can be too expensive, because somebody else round the corner can do it cheaper, and it's ALL their fault!
No doubt the Slavs or Eastern can do it even cheaper....
We can probably anticipate the next people to accuse flybe pilots of being too expensive!
We wait with baited breath!
And so pilots are conned into working for less, and less, and.......etc.
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The reason JF is so keen to acquire BACon is because we are not in as bad a shape as some people on here make out. We have some great routes, slots, passenger base (and e-mail database) and most importantly crews to fly them. Our yield per ticket is in fact very similar to flybe, but we havent made nearly enough use of internet sales and associated ancillary revenue and yes, our cost base is too high, but that is not in the main down to our Ts and Cs. Some of them I admit are on the generous side, but the majority (such as the right to refuse a last minute change) are relatively minimal cost to the company, but a huge plus to those of us who care about family commitments. Why anyone would not want to improve their quality of life while reducing pilot turnover, subsequent roster changes and training costs as crews move elsewhere I will never understand. Little Prince, most of us stayed here not because we cant get a job elsewhere, but because we liked it. For 8 years I have been paid a reasonable wage on time each month, flown well maintained aircraft, been treated fairly and worked with some great people - not exacty compelling reasons to move on are they. Can we also dispel the myth that our fleet is some gas guzzling economic disaster area. No, they are not the fleet of choice for a lo-co (not that flybe is a true lo-co), but sitting at FL370 the other day sipping 980kg per hour at 450kts, I couldnt help thinking it a pity that the Embraers are being pensioned off early. Still, I have to admit the Q400 does seem to have the economic advantage - just a shame the barbie doesn't have another 29 seats ! All at BACon is not as bad as it seems and once the dust settles, flybe will be a bigger and better company as a result.
Last edited by 100above; 3rd Dec 2006 at 00:47.
You know, in a sick sort of way, I hope it does all fall through, just to see all those shiny new planes sitting parked up costing flybe a total fortune. I can't wait to hear the rantings of that inane idiot fred wondering where it all went wrong. You do know don't you, that easyJet have decided to make a determined effort to poach all the more senior guys from BACON so you will end up stuffed (by the way, I haven't seen many flybe guys down at Luton, cos they just don't make the grade! 
). Wait till the press and the Sun reading public get wind of the fact that flybe is such a farce that they are promoting 1500 hour guys to command just to get 'planes in the air!
All this posturing from a minor airline like flybe makes me think there is a lacking in the manhood department!
). Wait till the press and the Sun reading public get wind of the fact that flybe is such a farce that they are promoting 1500 hour guys to command just to get 'planes in the air!All this posturing from a minor airline like flybe makes me think there is a lacking in the manhood department!
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nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so yeah screw BACon botom of seniorty list!
ehm life boat sails now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again base/pay protection dont care about seniority, especiallly as BACon crews apear to have the only FO's available for command!
and so assuming flybe actually flaot, who do you think are gonna buy a shed load of shares in a "share take over/ merjeur"
nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so yeah screw BACon botom of seniorty list!
ehm life boat sails now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again base/pay protection dont care about seniority, especiallly as BACon crews apear to have the only FO's available for command!
and so assuming flybe actually flaot, who do you think are gonna buy a shed load of shares in a "share take over/ merjeur"
But if its in the sun it must be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1Join Date: Nov 1999
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Lost me here. Are you talking about the management? Nothing I've covered in CRM in the last 7years would lead me to believe that any line pilot would do something so boneheaded
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"For 8 years I have been paid a reasonable wage on time each month, flown well maintained aircraft, been treated fairly and worked with some great people - not exacty compelling reasons to move on are they."
Precisely, cushioned in the 'comfort zone', hoping against all odds that BACon wouldn't go under, head buried so far in the sand that the glaring light of the inevitable never got through. It was never going work and those who were prepared to move and yes, in some cases, take cuts in pay and conditions albeit for a brighter and more secure futre, did so years ago. As unpalatable as it may appear, TLP's last post was spot-on.
Now, and it's only a suggestion......BACon guys and girls. No matter how much you jump and shout you are the new kids on the block. Accept it and realise that the bottom of the seniority list is where you would put 300 pilots from another company if they were to owe their future jobs and mortgages after being saved by BACon.
But.........to offset the bottom of the list, flyBe take the BACon crew across onto their equivalent years served-in rank pay-point. OK, a drop for some BACon jet captains but hey. ...you've got a job and if you don't like it then go and get one of these many(?) other job opportunities out there.
flyBe......the BACon pilots' T&Cs played no part in its downfall. Grossly inept management and the BA 'excess baggage' that was wholly unsuited to regional ops dragged the company under. Your CC should aspire to emulate BACon's T&Cs for the benefit of you all. Most importantly, it imposes a financial discipline on the flight ops management to ensure that crewing levels are sustained and rostering is planned because if it isn't it costs and affects the bottom line. I am willing to bet that you wouldn't have had such a massive turn-over in crew in the past few years and have now such a relatively inexperienced workforce if 'lifestyle' issues had been resolved.
Precisely, cushioned in the 'comfort zone', hoping against all odds that BACon wouldn't go under, head buried so far in the sand that the glaring light of the inevitable never got through. It was never going work and those who were prepared to move and yes, in some cases, take cuts in pay and conditions albeit for a brighter and more secure futre, did so years ago. As unpalatable as it may appear, TLP's last post was spot-on.
Now, and it's only a suggestion......BACon guys and girls. No matter how much you jump and shout you are the new kids on the block. Accept it and realise that the bottom of the seniority list is where you would put 300 pilots from another company if they were to owe their future jobs and mortgages after being saved by BACon.
But.........to offset the bottom of the list, flyBe take the BACon crew across onto their equivalent years served-in rank pay-point. OK, a drop for some BACon jet captains but hey. ...you've got a job and if you don't like it then go and get one of these many(?) other job opportunities out there.
flyBe......the BACon pilots' T&Cs played no part in its downfall. Grossly inept management and the BA 'excess baggage' that was wholly unsuited to regional ops dragged the company under. Your CC should aspire to emulate BACon's T&Cs for the benefit of you all. Most importantly, it imposes a financial discipline on the flight ops management to ensure that crewing levels are sustained and rostering is planned because if it isn't it costs and affects the bottom line. I am willing to bet that you wouldn't have had such a massive turn-over in crew in the past few years and have now such a relatively inexperienced workforce if 'lifestyle' issues had been resolved.
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Bows, takes applause........
Think LTP summed it up nicely
TLP's last post was spot-on.
I think a new career in journalism beckons!
I think the aroma of coffee is finally spreading far and wide. You'll like the taste too, think how satisfying it will be to meet Hutchings, Phelan, Witts, Deacon etc in a bar in a year's time knowing you're part of a successful business, still expanding, which they couldn't achieve in a gazillion years!
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I still can't understand all this petty bickering about terms and conditions and seniority.This proposed merger may very well NOT happen.Despite BA offering a substantial cash injection,which is probably equivalent to the combined redundancy,base closure payments it will have to make if BA Connect is just wound up.The Bacon routes/slots are worthless,nothing from LHR,all the others can be cherry-picked as of today and the dash/emb are not in the picture for the future.Any Bacon guys who are marketable would move on to more lucrative offers,the mediocre guys left would have no choice other than to slot in where required.All is just speculation,so I suggest no more point scoring until a definite outcome for all concerned is announced.
Gender Faculty Specialist
(by the way, I haven't seen many flybe guys down at Luton, cos they just don't make the grade! ).
).
Wait till the press and the Sun reading public get wind of the fact that flybe is such a farce that they are promoting 1500 hour guys to command just to get 'planes in the air!
All this posturing from a minor airline like flybe makes me think there is a lacking in the manhood department!
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Pin Head...as i stated the Bacon slots are just that...worthless. IOM/EDI/MAN/GLA/ABZ/BHX/SOU/ most are of no value.True some of the continental slots are attractive,but still can be applied for.the point of my post is that BAConnect as a package just isn't an attractive proposition,even with BA's huge cash incentive to take it off BA's hands.Jim French is astute enough to realise that the cash will only go so far,then the costs incurred will fall upon FLYBE......They will come to haunt any purchaser in the not too distant future.
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Bacon Slicer forcasted ALL of this months ago - many shouted me down but now look. CARNAGE.
p.s. the "Didsbury 5" will slip out of the back door and appear in the Sim at Cranebank very soon!
muppetry!
p.s. the "Didsbury 5" will slip out of the back door and appear in the Sim at Cranebank very soon!
muppetry!
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Bermuda Triangle-what a load of tosh you talk. Mediocre pilots? I'm sure there are those in every airline but many of us will be joing FlyBe with just as much enthusiam, experience and goodwill to contribute as those already there. And as for the bases, there is still potentially money to be made with the right route structures. Go stick your overgrown head back in the sand and just wait and see......
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Oldsalt.....sorry you take offence..once again I just try to make the point that this merger probably WILL NOT HAPPEN.so don't get involved in this debate over seniority/fleet/base.We both know the vastly differing capabilities of our colleagues,some can pick and choose,some cannot,thats true of any profession.The next 3 weeks will decide the fate of both companies and until a decision one way or the other is announced,there is little point in speculation.
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Pin Head...as i stated the Bacon slots are just that...worthless. IOM/EDI/MAN/GLA/ABZ/BHX/SOU/ most are of no value.True some of the continental slots are attractive,but still can be applied for.the point of my post is that BAConnect as a package just isn't an attractive proposition,even with BA's huge cash incentive to take it off BA's hands.Jim French is astute enough to realise that the cash will only go so far,then the costs incurred will fall upon FLYBE......They will come to haunt any purchaser in the not too distant future.
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I am also led to believe that JF has only just realised that he is taking on a final salary pension scheme (with a deficit) as well. Gather he has taken a personal interest and that he will now be extraordinarily attending a special meeting of the trustees of the said scheme next week. Has he bitten off more than he can chew - doubt it, suspect he will use the opportunity to squeeze a few more £££K from BA!!! 
