A PPRuNe FUND - To assist pilots and would be pilots to achieve their goal
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A PPRuNe FUND - To assist pilots and would be pilots to achieve their goal
Pause a while in your seat up high, take a moment to sit and ponder.
Remember those dreams a pilot dreams?
Remember the sweat, and the tears, as you toiled to reach the big blue yonder?
Of the hours you read, of how you learned, of the many many schemes.
And now! As you fly your wings from place to place
When for all you yearned, was just to smile.....
Now as you fly from mile to mile. Look at the smile your smiling now. It's a smile that lights up your face!
A part of my own memories.....
_____________________________________________
And by way a reminder that when we learned, studied and gritted our teeth it was tough. Well, PPRuNe might be about to play a small but significant part in helping guys and gals to get their wings.
As a result of a cheque we got from The Ash, £60. Danny said that he had no where to put it so why don't I start a fund that will help wannabes, CPL's and ATPL's!! Well £60 quid won't go anywhere so I said I would start a committee to see what we can do.
First HORATIO, ex Monarch Captain, has agreed to be Teasurer, HAMRAH, Chief Pilot of GO, has agreed to be part of the team as has WEE WEASLEY WELSHMAN, an instructor based in Spain. I have one other who I haven't TOLD yet! Each will bring some determination and no-how. Me? I will bring experience from being 27 years in aviation top management, with a few thousand hours, and of chairing committee's. This gives us our quorum but it will take a few weeks to get really going.
I have given the project a working title of "The PPRuNe Flying Scholarship"
What are our aims? Not entirely sure yet, but they will be to offer financial assitance where it is needed to, for example, purchasing ATPL course notes, a lot of money. Or for a wannabe to step on the first rung of the ladder to flying.
We will see how we can encourage airlines to make a contribution to our funds. OR to give selected guys or gals the advantaged use of their facilities and sims.
We will see how we can raise funds.
How we can persuade the Lottery Fund that we are as deserving as anyone else. Most times better than anyone else.
How to select at least two wannabes a year for a flying scholarship. How he/she will have to prove that they are worthy of sending them to an airline to complete ALL their training.
ALL things are possible. We just have to get the ball rolling.
Your ideas are sought.
Ideas on fundraising.
How you would select a wannabe?
How YOU could help the committee?
How YOU could encourage and how YOU could persaude your company to participate.
And any number of other things to help us help them.
Well that's it. No point in pressing too hard now, but please do make your feelings known.
PS. Capt PPRuNe contacted me last night from Puerto Plata! He said he would like to join the committee. Welcome Danny.
I have invited Stan Sted to join us on the committee, to which has agreed. His will be a good voice. Welcome to Stan too. I have invited one other well know PPRuNer to join our number, to make seven, I will let you know who that is when and if he agrees. That will complete the committee.
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 13 June 2000).]
Remember those dreams a pilot dreams?
Remember the sweat, and the tears, as you toiled to reach the big blue yonder?
Of the hours you read, of how you learned, of the many many schemes.
And now! As you fly your wings from place to place
When for all you yearned, was just to smile.....
Now as you fly from mile to mile. Look at the smile your smiling now. It's a smile that lights up your face!
A part of my own memories.....
_____________________________________________
And by way a reminder that when we learned, studied and gritted our teeth it was tough. Well, PPRuNe might be about to play a small but significant part in helping guys and gals to get their wings.
As a result of a cheque we got from The Ash, £60. Danny said that he had no where to put it so why don't I start a fund that will help wannabes, CPL's and ATPL's!! Well £60 quid won't go anywhere so I said I would start a committee to see what we can do.
First HORATIO, ex Monarch Captain, has agreed to be Teasurer, HAMRAH, Chief Pilot of GO, has agreed to be part of the team as has WEE WEASLEY WELSHMAN, an instructor based in Spain. I have one other who I haven't TOLD yet! Each will bring some determination and no-how. Me? I will bring experience from being 27 years in aviation top management, with a few thousand hours, and of chairing committee's. This gives us our quorum but it will take a few weeks to get really going.
I have given the project a working title of "The PPRuNe Flying Scholarship"
What are our aims? Not entirely sure yet, but they will be to offer financial assitance where it is needed to, for example, purchasing ATPL course notes, a lot of money. Or for a wannabe to step on the first rung of the ladder to flying.
We will see how we can encourage airlines to make a contribution to our funds. OR to give selected guys or gals the advantaged use of their facilities and sims.
We will see how we can raise funds.
How we can persuade the Lottery Fund that we are as deserving as anyone else. Most times better than anyone else.
How to select at least two wannabes a year for a flying scholarship. How he/she will have to prove that they are worthy of sending them to an airline to complete ALL their training.
ALL things are possible. We just have to get the ball rolling.
Your ideas are sought.
Ideas on fundraising.
How you would select a wannabe?
How YOU could help the committee?
How YOU could encourage and how YOU could persaude your company to participate.
And any number of other things to help us help them.
Well that's it. No point in pressing too hard now, but please do make your feelings known.
PS. Capt PPRuNe contacted me last night from Puerto Plata! He said he would like to join the committee. Welcome Danny.
I have invited Stan Sted to join us on the committee, to which has agreed. His will be a good voice. Welcome to Stan too. I have invited one other well know PPRuNer to join our number, to make seven, I will let you know who that is when and if he agrees. That will complete the committee.
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]
[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 13 June 2000).]
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Ok, my initial thoughts on the PPRuNe Fund, which, it has to be said, appears to be a well thought though and generally good idea:
Fundraising. One suggestion is that for every Bash every attendee pays a ''tax'' of X pounds which goes directly into the Fund. It does not have to be a particularly high amount (if it was then people would not obviously attend), but if it was £5 x 100 attendees then that is £500 from one Bash.
Selecting wannabies. I think a panel should be set up, consisting of X number of people which look carefully at each application and come to a unamious or majority verdict. A panel of 3 seems most appropriate and fair. Each applicant should fill out an application form from which the decision of whether they are worthy of help would be made. I am more than happy to be on the panel, which, I think, should be seperate of the committee, and, for larger requests, the ''head'' or ''chair'' of the Fund should be the decider once a decision from the panel has been made. That way money will not be wasted but rather given to the most needy ''cause''.
Perhaps it is a good idea to consider the limitations with regard to the help available. What things can the Fund provide and which things can it not?
Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable.
A decision must be made with regard to who is entitled to help by the Fund. Is anyone from any country, or what? This will obviously contradtic the Equal Opportunities Policy so must be written in such a way as not to be confusing.
All for now...if I have any more suggestions, comments and/or opinions, i'll be sure to reply.
Dash.
[This message has been edited by DASHER (edited 11 June 2000).]
Fundraising. One suggestion is that for every Bash every attendee pays a ''tax'' of X pounds which goes directly into the Fund. It does not have to be a particularly high amount (if it was then people would not obviously attend), but if it was £5 x 100 attendees then that is £500 from one Bash.
Selecting wannabies. I think a panel should be set up, consisting of X number of people which look carefully at each application and come to a unamious or majority verdict. A panel of 3 seems most appropriate and fair. Each applicant should fill out an application form from which the decision of whether they are worthy of help would be made. I am more than happy to be on the panel, which, I think, should be seperate of the committee, and, for larger requests, the ''head'' or ''chair'' of the Fund should be the decider once a decision from the panel has been made. That way money will not be wasted but rather given to the most needy ''cause''.
Perhaps it is a good idea to consider the limitations with regard to the help available. What things can the Fund provide and which things can it not?
Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable.
A decision must be made with regard to who is entitled to help by the Fund. Is anyone from any country, or what? This will obviously contradtic the Equal Opportunities Policy so must be written in such a way as not to be confusing.
All for now...if I have any more suggestions, comments and/or opinions, i'll be sure to reply.
Dash.
[This message has been edited by DASHER (edited 11 June 2000).]
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IFR should be applauded on 2 counts; firstly, for having successfully resolved the Ash issue, we now have some money in the coffers, albeit, not a lot. Secondly, for taking up the challenge on behalf of the Pprune Community to provide help and support to the professional pilot community, particularly those just starting out. Whilst we may not have a lot of money at present, although that will probably change significantly as time goes on, Pprune does have a wealth of aviation experience amongst its fraternity and many members who are prepared to share their experience and assist those that are contemplating placing their foot on the first rung of the ladder.
The idea of a ‘Pprune Flying Scholarship’ is a great idea and hopefully we will see that come to fruition. In the interim, I believe there are a great many ways in which the Pprune Community can encourage and support those starting out. One of the biggest frustrations of the ‘wannabee’ is that having successfully achieved that new, shiny licence how does he/she go about getting that vital first job? On graduating, the euphoria of gaining a licence that specifies that he/she can command an aircraft in controlled airspace soon evaporates when the realisation dawns that a licence simply gains entry to a pool of similarly qualified, but unemployed hopefuls, many of whom have been sitting there waiting a considerable time for that first opportunity. I believe that this should be our first priority; to help prepare those that have achieved the required credentials achieve the opening that they desperately need.
I know this is an issue very close to Hamrah’s heart; he and I have had numerous discussions on ways that we can help those that are qualified, yet awaiting the treasured first job. We have discussed the concept of pilot seminars, similar to those currently run in the UK, but run on a purely ‘non-profit’ basis, with built in workshops featuring interview techniques, psychometric and technical tests and maybe even simulator assessments and critiques. We believe that this is the way in which we can support the maximum number of Pprune members in the best and quickest way possible. To do this we need the support of those members that are prepared to give freely of their time and experience.
In conclusion, this is a very noble cause and one in which every member can contribute, whether it be by helping raise funds or by donating some of your time or experience to helping those follow in your footsteps. Hopefully we will have a forum devoted to this cause, but in the meantime, those that are willing to assist are encouraged to offer their support or ideas in reply.
Horatio
The idea of a ‘Pprune Flying Scholarship’ is a great idea and hopefully we will see that come to fruition. In the interim, I believe there are a great many ways in which the Pprune Community can encourage and support those starting out. One of the biggest frustrations of the ‘wannabee’ is that having successfully achieved that new, shiny licence how does he/she go about getting that vital first job? On graduating, the euphoria of gaining a licence that specifies that he/she can command an aircraft in controlled airspace soon evaporates when the realisation dawns that a licence simply gains entry to a pool of similarly qualified, but unemployed hopefuls, many of whom have been sitting there waiting a considerable time for that first opportunity. I believe that this should be our first priority; to help prepare those that have achieved the required credentials achieve the opening that they desperately need.
I know this is an issue very close to Hamrah’s heart; he and I have had numerous discussions on ways that we can help those that are qualified, yet awaiting the treasured first job. We have discussed the concept of pilot seminars, similar to those currently run in the UK, but run on a purely ‘non-profit’ basis, with built in workshops featuring interview techniques, psychometric and technical tests and maybe even simulator assessments and critiques. We believe that this is the way in which we can support the maximum number of Pprune members in the best and quickest way possible. To do this we need the support of those members that are prepared to give freely of their time and experience.
In conclusion, this is a very noble cause and one in which every member can contribute, whether it be by helping raise funds or by donating some of your time or experience to helping those follow in your footsteps. Hopefully we will have a forum devoted to this cause, but in the meantime, those that are willing to assist are encouraged to offer their support or ideas in reply.
Horatio
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Being a wannabe myself I think this is a fantastic idea.
I myself have been lucky enough to potentially have secured sponsorship from zero to ATPL, med results allowing. However, I have in the process, become well aware of just what it takes to get oneself into the sky, hopefully earning a living at the same time. One aspect I was going to find quite hard to fund was the C1 Medical. For anyone who is finding it hard to fund lessons as it is, the prospect of shelling out £400 on the medical is both daunting and potentially going to keep you out of a cockpit for a while, not being able to afford lessons. Perhaps it might be posssible to offer support with medical costs?
Obviously I think great care wil have to be taken when selecting a wannabe. All of the usual stuff like no. of hours flight time, motivation, ambitions etc will have to be considered, but I also think length of registration to the site should play a small part somewhere.
Unfortunately due to my only really getting my foot in the door of the aviation industry recently, I am not able to ask for an employers' contribution/ help or any real words of wisdom!! But I wouldn't mind sitting on a selection committee if you wanted the perspective of a current wannabe.
Congratulations on a fantastic idea,
rookie#1
I myself have been lucky enough to potentially have secured sponsorship from zero to ATPL, med results allowing. However, I have in the process, become well aware of just what it takes to get oneself into the sky, hopefully earning a living at the same time. One aspect I was going to find quite hard to fund was the C1 Medical. For anyone who is finding it hard to fund lessons as it is, the prospect of shelling out £400 on the medical is both daunting and potentially going to keep you out of a cockpit for a while, not being able to afford lessons. Perhaps it might be posssible to offer support with medical costs?
Obviously I think great care wil have to be taken when selecting a wannabe. All of the usual stuff like no. of hours flight time, motivation, ambitions etc will have to be considered, but I also think length of registration to the site should play a small part somewhere.
Unfortunately due to my only really getting my foot in the door of the aviation industry recently, I am not able to ask for an employers' contribution/ help or any real words of wisdom!! But I wouldn't mind sitting on a selection committee if you wanted the perspective of a current wannabe.
Congratulations on a fantastic idea,
rookie#1
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A noble idea guys. On a slightly different vein has anyone thought of a mentoring network for wannabes: hooking up a wannabe with an airline pilot to answer Q's and just take then under their wing if only through emails. I would have found this very useful for myself. It is also very cheap!! 
Aviation can be a difficult area to get any support: many pilots seem to regard you as competition.
Just an idea...
[This message has been edited by Oleo (edited 12 June 2000).]
Aviation can be a difficult area to get any support: many pilots seem to regard you as competition.
Just an idea...
[This message has been edited by Oleo (edited 12 June 2000).]
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Tutoring might be welcome by some wannabes. How many of us remember trying to figure out something & would have found help from someone who is familiar with the topic a boon?
Many of us here have solid instructing, teaching, airline etc backgrounds.
Many of us here have solid instructing, teaching, airline etc backgrounds.
Guest
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This may not be the most popular suggestion, but what about charging a £5 a year registration fee to all PPRUNE users? With over 15000 registrations, that equates to £75000 a year. If this fund had been started 5 years ago there would be £375000 in the pot by now, enough to fund almost 15 ATPLAs at todays prices.
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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!
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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!
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IFR, this is a fantastic and very thoughtful idea. I don't think any of us would mind a registration fee of some kind and certainly taxing the bashes is a great idea. I think Oleo's mentoring suggestion is a really good one. I know I'd love to have someone more experienced to go to with my flying problems and questions, and even though the forum as a whole does this it's always nice to have someone specific you know and trust to go to.
For those that have PPL's we could arrange the occasional fly-in to somewhere, choose different airfields each time. Just to encourage new PPL'ers to get out there and start going places, gaining experience and building hours on their new license. I know I found it very daunting to actually start going to different airfields that I hadn't been to before. Again there could be some sort of sign up fee and a BBQ or picnic at the destination field to raise some funds.. Perhaps on these kinds of occasions those not having PPL's could make a donation to the Scholarship fund to fly in with one of the PPL'ers, giving the new PPL'ers further exposure to non-flying passengers whilst raising money for the fund.
This is the most exciting thread I've read in ages, we really have the chance to do some amazing things here, thanks to everyone who's putting in the effort and experience to get this off the ground, if you need any foot soldiers let me know.
Love to all, a very excited pinky!
For those that have PPL's we could arrange the occasional fly-in to somewhere, choose different airfields each time. Just to encourage new PPL'ers to get out there and start going places, gaining experience and building hours on their new license. I know I found it very daunting to actually start going to different airfields that I hadn't been to before. Again there could be some sort of sign up fee and a BBQ or picnic at the destination field to raise some funds.. Perhaps on these kinds of occasions those not having PPL's could make a donation to the Scholarship fund to fly in with one of the PPL'ers, giving the new PPL'ers further exposure to non-flying passengers whilst raising money for the fund.
This is the most exciting thread I've read in ages, we really have the chance to do some amazing things here, thanks to everyone who's putting in the effort and experience to get this off the ground, if you need any foot soldiers let me know.
Love to all, a very excited pinky!
Guest
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Given the number of wannabes versus the amount of cash likely to be available, I'd say that PPRuNe actually sponsoring anyone is fraught with potential difficulties.
What I would suggest thst that we look closely at Oleo's idea of mentoring - this is a much lower cost option and one that could benefit far more than just a 'lucky few'!
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Happiness is a warm L1011
What I would suggest thst that we look closely at Oleo's idea of mentoring - this is a much lower cost option and one that could benefit far more than just a 'lucky few'!
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Happiness is a warm L1011
Guest
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Well, this is encouraging. Good thoughts coming through. Just what we want. One or two worth consideration too.
At this point it is worth mentioning, that even if only ONE wannabe gained a PPRuNe scholarship, it would have achieved it aim.
But I for one intend going through with this as far as it is possible to take it. Sitting on hands admiring what others do ain't an option.
Keep the ideas coming in.
Guest
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The good spirit being shown here is truly inspiring.
The scholarship is a great idea, albeit a hard one to pull off. I think the work put in by the experienced pilots will be paid off in the satisfaction of knowing that something has been done that will have a huge impact on someone else's life.
But I have to hand it to Oleo, the mentoring scheme is a fantastic idea. You can buy air time and exam fees, which, of course, will be extremely helpful, but you can't put a price on sound advice.
I'm lucky enough to already have found a "mentor" through PPRuNe. The lucky person is a professional airline pilot and a very active PPRuNer - he knows who he is!! I've gained a lot of valuable knowledge and experience from him and I count myself very lucky.
However, I know I'm in the minority of young wannabes who actually talks to someone from PPRuNe who can advise them and take an interest in their flying progress.
If only one thing was ever to come of this thread, make it the mentoring scheme. It is invaluable.
TPuk
I don't think there is much I can do to help you here, being a wannabe myself, but if there is, I'll be happy to do it!
[This message has been edited by TPuk (edited 12 June 2000).]
The scholarship is a great idea, albeit a hard one to pull off. I think the work put in by the experienced pilots will be paid off in the satisfaction of knowing that something has been done that will have a huge impact on someone else's life.
But I have to hand it to Oleo, the mentoring scheme is a fantastic idea. You can buy air time and exam fees, which, of course, will be extremely helpful, but you can't put a price on sound advice.
I'm lucky enough to already have found a "mentor" through PPRuNe. The lucky person is a professional airline pilot and a very active PPRuNer - he knows who he is!! I've gained a lot of valuable knowledge and experience from him and I count myself very lucky.
However, I know I'm in the minority of young wannabes who actually talks to someone from PPRuNe who can advise them and take an interest in their flying progress.
If only one thing was ever to come of this thread, make it the mentoring scheme. It is invaluable.
TPuk
I don't think there is much I can do to help you here, being a wannabe myself, but if there is, I'll be happy to do it!
[This message has been edited by TPuk (edited 12 June 2000).]
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A great idea!
I think the mentoring idea is much more feasable than a sponsorship.
Perhaps we need to set up a decent contacts forum as well, highlighting good practice and methods that have got people through the system. It would be difficult to prevent such a forum falling into the usual "this place is better than that" row, however.
And practical support for job hunting, CV writing, how to get yourself noticed etc.
I believe that would have a real value.
I think the mentoring idea is much more feasable than a sponsorship.
Perhaps we need to set up a decent contacts forum as well, highlighting good practice and methods that have got people through the system. It would be difficult to prevent such a forum falling into the usual "this place is better than that" row, however.
And practical support for job hunting, CV writing, how to get yourself noticed etc.
I believe that would have a real value.
Guest
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I would be temped to use any funds to allow wannabes to get aptitude tested.
We all know of people who have spent much time and money in a near pointless attempt to get qualified.
Potentially, these results could be used to get further sponsorship or scholarship from those organisations who currently provide:
RAF, RN, BA, BMid, GAPAN etc
Just a thought!
We all know of people who have spent much time and money in a near pointless attempt to get qualified.
Potentially, these results could be used to get further sponsorship or scholarship from those organisations who currently provide:
RAF, RN, BA, BMid, GAPAN etc
Just a thought!
Guest
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IFR can i have your babies????
Quote from Dash
"Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable"
does that mean a foul mouthed maniac glaswegian has a shoe in??????
seriously though I reckon you should maybe try and wangle trial flights for folk - I know that BA etc like you to have at least sat at the pointy end.......and not everyone is as fortunate as others with regards to parental/guardian funding etc.
But it must be said top ****ing notch idea (could resist one!) and may I be the first to buy you a pint at LGW??
Top Work fella!
B
x
Quote from Dash
"Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable"
does that mean a foul mouthed maniac glaswegian has a shoe in??????
seriously though I reckon you should maybe try and wangle trial flights for folk - I know that BA etc like you to have at least sat at the pointy end.......and not everyone is as fortunate as others with regards to parental/guardian funding etc.
But it must be said top ****ing notch idea (could resist one!) and may I be the first to buy you a pint at LGW??
Top Work fella!
B
x
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think mentoring is a great idea. When I was a wannabe I was extremely lucky to know a handful of people already flying for various companies, from brand new turbo prop FOs to Training Captains in the major airlines. It was invaluable and I cannot imagine trying to get through not knowing any working pilots. I would be more than happy to volunteer to be a mentor.
I think the money would be well spent on aptitude testing/ interviewing of pilots. I would recommend getting together with an organisation, GAPAN or whoever, who have previous knowledge/ experience in this field to come up with a pprune test. I think it would be best to test those who already have a PPL.
Personally I think the ATP Academy has the right idea and many lessons could be learned there. Perhaps they could be involved at some level, I know they have been involved with training some ab-initio cadets in Germany I think.
I think it would be a good idea to use their invaluable experience and advice.
I think a registration fee would be a good way to go. But you'll need to be able to accept cards, or no-one will bother sending cheques in.
Perhaps we could also have a fund available for a loan-scholarship. That is, it is awarded to someone worthy but is to be paid back when that person has a job.
I would be happy to run a mentoring scheme, matching wannabes with suitable mentors.
[This message has been edited by Grandad Flyer (edited 12 June 2000).]
I think the money would be well spent on aptitude testing/ interviewing of pilots. I would recommend getting together with an organisation, GAPAN or whoever, who have previous knowledge/ experience in this field to come up with a pprune test. I think it would be best to test those who already have a PPL.
Personally I think the ATP Academy has the right idea and many lessons could be learned there. Perhaps they could be involved at some level, I know they have been involved with training some ab-initio cadets in Germany I think.
I think it would be a good idea to use their invaluable experience and advice.
I think a registration fee would be a good way to go. But you'll need to be able to accept cards, or no-one will bother sending cheques in.
Perhaps we could also have a fund available for a loan-scholarship. That is, it is awarded to someone worthy but is to be paid back when that person has a job.
I would be happy to run a mentoring scheme, matching wannabes with suitable mentors.
[This message has been edited by Grandad Flyer (edited 12 June 2000).]
Guest
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tunneler, oh happily! But unfortunately I got snipped a few years ago. What a bloody shame!
Still make believe is still a major part of life, so let's pretend eh! What would you call a boy? I like Slasher, 'cos he doesn't give a s**t but likes to get where he is going! Very admirable that!
You just keep all the good ideas coming in. I think we are really on w winner here. I particularly like the mentor idea from Oleo, so Captains of whatever you fly. Make your mark now! Give a wannabe a reason to be.