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WASINC's Job Fair

Old 23rd Jan 2012, 00:58
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WASINC's Job Fair

Saw this topic come up on a couple of the other pilot gouge boards, didn't know if it had been mentioned here. About a dozen Chinese operators represented by WASINC are doing a recruiting drive in Miami and Las Vegas toward the end of February. Unlike most of these job fairs, it seems there are opportunities for more than the usual "Captains with >500 hours PIC on extremely marketable aircraft types" crowd. One that caught my eye was a Chinese bizjet operator with qualifications starting at ATP, 1500 total, 500 ME jet. Sounds like a good place to start for those in the RJ crowd looking to get out of Dodge. Of course, that's in addition to the usual five-figures-a-month offers on the upper end of the scale for folks with more experience.

The crew Wasinc's running the job fair with, Pan Am, is giving away free type ratings as well. Seems they'll be handing out two 737 ratings and one A320 one. I remember they used to do something similar when Southwest was doing a hiring fair every year here in the US. Sounds like reason enough to look into it. Here's the link to the details.
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 19:14
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Here are the companys that will be at the job fair. Any insight into the pros, and cons, of the different carriers?

Twelve major Chinese Airlines will have representatives in attendance, including:
Shenzhen Airlines Air China
Hainan Airlines
Tianjin Airlines
Sichuan Airlines
Xiamen Airlines
Chengdu Airlines
Spring Airlines
West Air
Business Aviation Asia Skymark Airlines
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Old 2nd Feb 2012, 23:33
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Hello Mised Agen,

depends what your looking for. Air China's new contract looks great...! I will be there at the job fair helping out. So, A320 and A330 drivers come on over t the Sichuan Airlines booth.

Good Luck,

On Final
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 05:28
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FromChina Pilot Job Fair | Start Your Career Today as a Pilot | Airline Careers at Pan Am Academy

Pan Am and WASINC International, China's largest pilot leasing company
I don't think so!!!

But looks like a nice and informative work shop... Too bad it's from Was!
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 06:16
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Air China's new contract looks great...!
Not to those working on the old one. Lets hope its a work in progress, if its a final draft then the foreign pilot program may be over.
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 07:39
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Youll be at a job fair to help apparently sichuan airlines to recruit when you wrote:
Yes Jota, it's crazy, just go in and hang on, get ready to have everything turned off, blank panels and start flying....hehe. We had 2 guys whacked with check rides lately. I just live 6 months at a time always keeping my eyes on the market. China and the money. Have been good but I am starting to ge worn down with:

1 pollution
2 traffic
3 poison Food
4 living in a shelter, my house with air filters, dehumidifiers like a space lab not being able to enjoy the environment . Things you normally do look for a nice place o eat out. Most places 95% are just not safe.
5. Checkrides
6. Internet blocking
7 western TV blocking
8 cell phone blocking

The whole Chinese World seems to wear you down. 4 more years an maybe Germany or Australia for me hehe.

Not trying to bring you guys down it's all good just crying in my beer.

Good luck,

On Final
Chinese CAAC Checkrides
Hello Gentlemen, After flying in China for almost 4 years now I have to laugh a little at the checkrides, like the one I just finished on the Airbus..!! I used to feel good as a pilot, but in China I feel like maybe I should have been a electrician or something else. I was laughing not because the Checkrides are easy, because they are the most difficult I have ever had..!! I was a Check Airman, Instructor, Sim Instructor and still feel like every 6 months is this going to be the last Check ride..! It is like madness, the training pappers are in chinese, the FO speaks only a little English and the Examinor is only speaking Chinese. So, each time you go for the checkride, it is flying a piece of metal with multiple, multiple, problems to the point you are flying with maybe a standby altimeter and airpseed. Of coarse you have to have raw daw, using the bird down to minumums with a 20 to 30 kt crosswind....heheh crazy. Pilots that have never flown in China don't know what it is like until you are flying with everything broken, and you can even ask ATC, or the FO for simple instructions that are being given by ATC in Chinese and you find out there is a holding fix but had no holding instructions (in English..) and pass it, I mean an RMI needdle is all I had, then to correct and enter the hold. It is hard to explain, but nothing like checkrides in the West, at even Cat 3.

So, if you are going to China for a job you may consider getting some sim prep. The prep should be all Had flying, Raw data, circle to land, VFR patern, dual hydraulic failure, emergency Electrical config, hand flying the bird. Just be prepaired to hand fly the entire checkride in direct law...haha.

Well, thats about all I have to say about that...Good luck, On Final
Just a bit confusing
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 07:49
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Here is another quote...

Hello Fellow pilots,

I have a friend at Deer Air/Capital Air , he has been there 2 years and likes it. It is true most Chinese carriers are disorganised and it is a long process from start to completion of line training. The risks are high in China for the pilot who signs an agency contract. Seems agents and Chinese carriers try to block the pilot from working else where in China if he leaves the airline, in some cases fails the process. Sometimes pilots spend 6 months trying to get through the process and the end game fails somewhere along the line. Then leaves and looks for another job, very painful. Some pilots are out 3000 to 5000 USD in air tickets, hotels and never get reimbursed. Just make sure before you make the first move you have a GOOD Agency, and Airline you want to work for from the get-go.

Make sure in your agency is a good one, and your contract has language on who pays Taxes, when you get paid, training pay, reimbursements and after you complete you contract you will get a release letter (make sure it is quick) to work at another Chinese carrier if you like.

Good Luck,

On Final
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 09:28
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Hello, no confusion here. Like I said China is China, all I said I feel is my feelings. But will say that if I had a place to be in China I would be working right where i am. If I could work for the same airline based in Germany I would love it. Doesn't matter which airline you work for in China it will have the crazy check rides, double, triple malfunctions ....that's right. But I think I am getting better at taking the checks ....hehe.

I will say that I get paid on time, get paid correctly, always reimbursed with the nicest people to work for. I can only share the facts with pilots just like here, if they like it, then come on over to China.

Yes, I get tired, ask any pilot working in China but I don't get ripped off. So long story short, I completed a 2 year and still have 3 more years left in my latest 5 year contract trying to make the best of life. I use a VPN to keep the sanity for Internet but miss my high speed comcast in USA...!

I hope I have explained myself. I will be at the job fair in Maimi and las Vegas so if you want the facts stop by or a chat I will tell you straight...!

Good luck,

On Final

Last edited by On Final; 4th Feb 2012 at 00:00. Reason: Spell
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 13:46
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On Final;
I will be interested to hear if the current pay here in PRC is enough to start getting more legacy US pilots to come here. AMR's bankruptcy will probably get some 737 guys to jump ship, at least for a while. Maybe a long while. Actually, guys taking a leave from a job they can go back to are the ONLY pilots I would recommend China to. It is just too much of a professional minefield to bet your career on. But right now, the money rocks.

I will back up everything On Final has written about China, both good and bad. Actually good and bad is an understatement. Fantastic and catastrophically stupid are a better description, IMHO. In some ways I will never have a better job than I have here. In some ways I will never have a worse job. But at the end of the day I am a prostitute, and the money here is keeping me in the game, at least until Feb 25th, which is the next day that Parc deposits money in my account. On that day, I will start looking forward to March 25.
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Old 3rd Feb 2012, 20:32
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WELL said both of you. AGREE 100%
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Old 4th Feb 2012, 00:37
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Talking WASINC's Job Fair

Hello Gentlemen,

I will try to respond to USMCProbes and others. I gave up my USA pilot job for the contract position. With all of the ups and downs in the US I feel free as a bird. For the rest of my career I will be flying the contract. I agree with USMCProbes 100% on the good the bad, heaven and hell, happiness' and madness...hehhe. It is so true in China..! But for those looking for the job in China the straight talk.....I can say depends on what you need. The Money is great..14 to 16K per month is good and now the airlines even pay your taxes for the IRS. Is the pay enough, the legacy guys may be thinking hard about it now.

How does a guy pick the right airline and agency? Only god knows that and you need a little luck. I feel I had both, and hope other have the same. Is China for the commuter?? You may commute to the west for 6 months but in reality, I would think hard about that. Even with the money, I dont think it is worth it. If you can avoid the commute, that is different, you can manage it. Can I bring the family? That depends on your lifestyle and your wife's level of stress she can stand. It China, you have a serious language barrier, the best is to make family friends with other expats and keep it tight then the wife will do better. The kids are bullet proof they can take it no problem. The English schools are costly, 8 to 10K RMB a month (1000 to 1500 USD) per month, per Child. Cost a living is Cheap in Chengdu and many expats and western stores.

Pollution? Hell yes, like one cant imagine. Air pollution, Forget local food, best to shop at ITO Yokado, Carrefour or Metro stay away from Chinese brands, everything..! You can make your apartment safe with air filters etc. The water is OK to shower, shave, wash dishes but try not to drink it.

The Chinese people are nice but rude habits westerners can't understand, spitting, kids urinate on the street sometimes in stores, driving No Rules. I guess what I am saying the Chinese people are very friendly and kind you just need to see beyond the way they are taught. The airlines normally will treat you like a Rock Star, but if you mess up set up a court for you. I manage to walk the line, avoid QARS, having a beer then drive, I mean any drink at all or you can face jail time.

I am just a line pilot, not a recruiter. I was asked to help out at the WASINC JOB FAIR by my airline, answer questions for others so that is what I can do.

I enjoy my life and wish the best of luck to other seeking work in China, so far away from the normal World. I hope my posts help give some insight to those looking to make the move but still I have a hard time finding the words to do it.

I do tend to believe most of the posts on PPRuNe even the negative I just filter through it. When I first came to China in 2008 I started by reading PPRuNe and slowly ended up where I am now, in China.

Good luck,

On Final
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Old 4th Feb 2012, 02:15
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On Final, I plan on attending the job fair in MIA. I hope I get a chance to chat with you.
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Old 4th Feb 2012, 05:06
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shenzhen airlines

I wouldn't recommend Shenzhen Airlines. For Airbus pilots is the lowest pay in the market, many layovers with low level hotels.
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Old 4th Feb 2012, 23:39
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Hey Final

I'm just shy of 10k in total hours with about 4000 of it in the right seat of the Boeing 737 NG. It's looking like a long time to upgrade yet, and I'm paying waaaaay too much tax in Canada...

I love the ex-pat type flying, did it for 3 years in Africa, and would do it again. I'm seriously considering going the contract pilot route, but I refuse to go over to Asia to ride shotgun. Just wondering if you know of any companies that will give guys a left seat without the magical 500 hrs PIC on type...or am I dreaming?

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Old 5th Feb 2012, 06:22
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Not dreaming Jake, take a look at Skymark (they will be on the fair) they are a good option in your case, also apply to any job that you are interested in, I have a couple of friends that have been hired in the past couple of years as DEC's in jobs that had the 500 hours as part of their requirements and they weren't even rated, let them be the ones that disqualify you, don't do it for them so just apply and see what happens. Good luck
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Old 7th Feb 2012, 04:54
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There are many Chinese carriers attending the job fair in Miami in February and I know Shenzhen will be represented there by WASINC. So I wanted to give my input for those considering a Airbus captain contract in China and Shenzhen airlines specifically.

I am currently working at Shenzhen Airlines on the Airbus.

As for working conditions, I am not sure if this place is better or worse than any others.

Having been here for close to three years now and having several friends working for different companies around China, I would not recommend coming to Shenzhen Airlines to fly the Airbus.

When you come to China, the airline you come to work for basically owns your certificate rights in China, by this I mean you may or may not be able to transfer to another company once you are here, but at a minimum, you will be required to complete your contract at that airline and then you may be able to get a “release letter” from the airline depending on their willingness to release you! Basically what I am saying is to choose a good airline the first time!

Some specifics about the Shenzhen Airlines contract:

-Pay is less than other carriers in China, for the amount of days worked
-Days off are less than other carriers in China
-If you have a kid in the local schools, they do reimburse you for $1000USD per month for tuition
-If you do not have a kid in school, you will not receive the equivalent of the tuition reimbursement, so you will receive less compensation because you don’t have kids in school here.
-Most all of your trips will be three or four day trips. If you do not have family here that may not matter, if you do, plan on being away 10-13 nights a month. Hotels are not very clean and the food situation is quite challenging. At least for me anyway!
-Commuting option is the least favorable among all othes in China 70 days on / 20 days off for $10,700 USD a month, compare that to what ALL the others are offering
-Overtime is offered but do not plan on it as the Airbus flying is quite unproductive. Often time you will not be flying but you will be sitting in a hotel on a layover somewhere.

-Fuel savings bonus program has been in place now for several months and that can add an additional 500-1000 USD a month
-Shenzhen is fine compared to other cities I have visited in china. (it is still china) Location is great if you want a warmer climate but it is NOT Hong Kong, so don’t let them sell you on that one!

Overall the money needs to be raised but more importantly, it is the schedules that will takes it toll on you. Many days at the airport, in hotels, and away from home.

Look at all of the carriers and the contracts in China before making the leap to come over here to interview. It can and most likely will be a time consuming and frustrating experience and to start with one carrier only to have to start the process with another can be enough to make you just throw in the towel.

Hope this helps,
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Old 7th Feb 2012, 12:19
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Layovers in China are really bad. I actually heard Shenzhen Air had the best hotels, but that might have been a bad rumor.

Luckily, and it IS only luck, the only layover I do right now is Harbin, where I am typing this right now. I believe it is minus 20C outside. Shenzhen stays here as well. But the hotel is OK (western 3 star), and there is a mall with western food 1km away. This is not a typical China layover. Most of the Chinese hotels are owned by the government/airlines/friends or family. Absolute dumps, half of them in the middle of nada. The only option is the hotel restaurant, where I have gotten food poisoning twice in the last year. This is most of the layover hotels, and by that I mean I see China Southern, Eastern, Air China, Hainan, etc staying there as well.

I would try to pick an airline where you do one day trips, and pray. Why pray? Because the scheduler might make a slight change, and by the time you get on line you will be spending 4 or 5 days on, 2 off, away from base in one of these hotels. This happened to me and 2 others. I am the only one left.
No english TV, minimal internet. I stayed in one for 6 months where half the rooms had no heat, and none were air conditioned.

In defense of On Final, and I don't know him from squat, his opinion has changed since being here a while. So has mine, and so will yours.

Is it worth it, if it works out for you? Yes, or at least maybe. I have seen a lot of carnage in the time I have been here.

I still haven't figured out if it has worked out for me. I have 4 months, 15 days, and 3 hours left on my contract. Approximately.

Good luck to all.
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 03:36
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Harbin overnite

WOW, you think the Harbin hotel is ok? Then I guess the hotels that Shenzhen stayed at were not so bad after all. I flew for SZX for a little over a year and while I thought most of them sucked (with the exception of the Grand in guangzhou and the resort in Haikou) Harbin was the worst. Let this be a warning to all thinking of doing this, probe things Harbin is better than most he has seen and it's bad so I can't imagine what he must be use to.....
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Old 10th Feb 2012, 08:06
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Sorry Cameltoad, I sugar coated it. It is by far the best hotel we stay at. LOL
The -25C right now kind of takes the sheen off of it, however.

Most of the hotels the Hainan Group stay at are the "Hainan Hilton". They are owned by the airline. At least some at least have tile floors, as there doesn't seem to be anyone in a Chinese hotel that knows how to clean carpet. The hotels with carpet have stains all over the carpet. Mostly cigarette ashes that the maids just grind into the carpet to make them go away.

The GrandPeake in CAN was decent also, but I think we just moved to a different one.
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Old 13th Feb 2012, 13:35
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Hey All,

I also would not recommend Shenzhen Air to any new pilots...I've been here three years as well and there are better places to be for the cash. Let's face aren't trying to settle down - you're trying to bank tons of cash to get out of this part of the world and on with your life!

Communications from the company are increasingly adversarial and hostile (even for China where some of that is to be expected...which is pathetic in and of itself). Recently the Airbus pilots have all been treated to an extra 2 hour CRM check ride to make sure we are communicating with the FO's well. Maybe when they learn proper English......

As far as the hotels go the only really nice one we have is in Guangzhou (hear Harbin isn't bad) and that one is due to be switched. The Nanning hotel is so lovely that I and others have opted for paying for a stay in the Marriott on our own dime....

Bottom can stay in crappy hotels, be subjected to random and ridiculous check rides, endure hostile management and the local culture ANYWHERE in China.....go for the CASH! ....and the schedule ( which Shenzhen doesn't have!!)
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