Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
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2 years and you have 1,500 hours? You must be kidding. There's such a thing called flight and duty times. Not sure about the limit for US but in general, ICAO countries have about 1,000 hours per year and not forgetting that you'll be spending the better part of at least 1 year getting your license.
Pray tell me, how is it possible to get 1,200 hours within a year? Maybe there's something I missed when I was getting my own license. Sorry, don't mean to pick you apart but maybe there's something I missed so am curious, that's all.
In Australia, to get 250 hours with a FIR will take you about one year with IR, of course. And as raised before, getting a PR so that you can work in Australia is an issue, so advise anybody who's looking to work in Aussie to check it out first before considering. Worst case, obtain a CASA license but can't work in Aussie.
Pray tell me, how is it possible to get 1,200 hours within a year? Maybe there's something I missed when I was getting my own license. Sorry, don't mean to pick you apart but maybe there's something I missed so am curious, that's all.
In Australia, to get 250 hours with a FIR will take you about one year with IR, of course. And as raised before, getting a PR so that you can work in Australia is an issue, so advise anybody who's looking to work in Aussie to check it out first before considering. Worst case, obtain a CASA license but can't work in Aussie.
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Alright guys no point getting heated up over this... We all have our own preferances. Due to personal reasons, I don't wanna go too far away from home. Besides I hope to work back here or at least in Malaysia. How much is the cost of the courses you recommend Sonic69?
sg_rookie, did you attain your licence in Malaysia? If so could you share with us where did you do it? I am quite certain about going to MFA.
sg_rookie, did you attain your licence in Malaysia? If so could you share with us where did you do it? I am quite certain about going to MFA.
Last edited by Yantz; 20th Oct 2008 at 15:58.
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@sgrookie,
You asked me to substantiate my claim, and I did. Without rubbing your nose in it, I might add. And you reply with childish remarks.
Taking 1 year to do 250hrs is really time wasting (not to mention 2 years!). It can be done in 5-7 months in Canada and US, if you're willing to put in the work. A friend of mine (Singaporean) is CFI of a flying school in Calgary where he ROUTINELY trains student pilots to CPL in 4 months and with Instructor Rating in 7 months. We're not talking about the SQ way where you spend the first 6 months clearing the ATPL papers. That's the ass backwards way. That's the cheapest way for airlines to ensure they don't hire somebody that cannot attain command grade. Does it matter? Not if I were a cadet! If someone were paying for my training, I'll do it whatever way they tell me to. But if I were going to self sponsor, my goal would be to take the shortest amount of time to get to a point where I can start earning pay as a professional pilot.
@Yantz,
I think its best to email them direct for prices if you're truly interested. Best to get first hand info.
You asked me to substantiate my claim, and I did. Without rubbing your nose in it, I might add. And you reply with childish remarks.
Taking 1 year to do 250hrs is really time wasting (not to mention 2 years!). It can be done in 5-7 months in Canada and US, if you're willing to put in the work. A friend of mine (Singaporean) is CFI of a flying school in Calgary where he ROUTINELY trains student pilots to CPL in 4 months and with Instructor Rating in 7 months. We're not talking about the SQ way where you spend the first 6 months clearing the ATPL papers. That's the ass backwards way. That's the cheapest way for airlines to ensure they don't hire somebody that cannot attain command grade. Does it matter? Not if I were a cadet! If someone were paying for my training, I'll do it whatever way they tell me to. But if I were going to self sponsor, my goal would be to take the shortest amount of time to get to a point where I can start earning pay as a professional pilot.
@Yantz,
I think its best to email them direct for prices if you're truly interested. Best to get first hand info.
Last edited by Sonic69; 20th Oct 2008 at 14:39.
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Hi Yanz,
I guess it will be the best for you to apply to MFA, SFC, HMA etc prior to making your decision which school to learn flying. Go though the interviews and test to gain knowledge and to explore the flight schools.
As you had mentioned, SFC cadet flight instructor programme is rare and the only time it had it was in 2006. Therefore I would suggest you at this age to clock up flight hours and gain ur experiences prior to goin back o LCCs or SQ again.
Are you accepted as a SFC private cadet?
MFA is the most logical way and cheaper alternative for self-sponsoring... therefore travel you to malacca to do its test and view its flight school. again, financial stability is critical for self-sponsored cadets.
Lets just hope this recession will help all the self sponsored pilots in a way or two...
cheers!
great way to fly
I guess it will be the best for you to apply to MFA, SFC, HMA etc prior to making your decision which school to learn flying. Go though the interviews and test to gain knowledge and to explore the flight schools.
As you had mentioned, SFC cadet flight instructor programme is rare and the only time it had it was in 2006. Therefore I would suggest you at this age to clock up flight hours and gain ur experiences prior to goin back o LCCs or SQ again.
Are you accepted as a SFC private cadet?
MFA is the most logical way and cheaper alternative for self-sponsoring... therefore travel you to malacca to do its test and view its flight school. again, financial stability is critical for self-sponsored cadets.
Lets just hope this recession will help all the self sponsored pilots in a way or two...
cheers!
great way to fly
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@sonic69,
My apologies if I sounded harsh but the fact of that matter is advertisements are NO basis for indicating that you will get there. You're talking about tens of thousands of dollars to get the license and if you do a search on DCA, there are some people who felt fleeced. Is it good? I can't tell you but there's NO such thing as a guaranteed job. I'm only trying to advise the people who's going for it to think twice, or even three times before committing such a huge sum of money into it and not getting a job in the end. If you can get a J1 Visa program, great, but if not? Having a very glossy brochure or website can substantiate your claims? Great! Good on ya, matey!
A piece of advice, if you will. Always take things with a pinch of salt until you've signed on the dotted line that you're employed as a professional pilot. Of course, you are correct in wanting your money to work for you (ie. getting employed) but since your friend is a CFI in Calgary, you can probably get a job at his outfit but not everyone is as lucky as you are. And it's also good to hear that a FIR can be obtained as quickly as 7 months from scratch. Kudos to that.
@Yantz,
No worries, mate. I'm cool. I got my CPL 3 years ago in Sydney. I was impressed by the brochures I see online too. It looks great! In reality? Reality is always a lot harsher. If I didn't get my current job, I would probably be an unemployed pilot because I was hunting for a job even before I got my CPL and times were bad. Am I a picky about jobs? No, but my main concern as I got my CPL is really unemployment and which part of the world I should be looking at. I have been down that path so I know how miserable it feels like to have a CPL and not being able to land a job.
In a previous post, I've already mentioned that most Singaporeans have a hard time getting to work in the 5 major cities cause of immigration and PR issues. No PR? No work. Plain and simple. You can work in the smaller towns/cities but it won't be easy building your hours.
Generally, I'm skeptical about getting jobs THAT easily, and I don't mean an airline job. I mean ANY job because some of my classmates who have their CPL are still jobless and they're still roaming the world in search of a job. I kid you not.
Oh... All these posts and I didn't get to the point. The main point of all my posts is that, there's NO such thing as a guaranteed job! Anyway, my posts are all linked in that it's always cautioning against having hopes too high cause it makes your gamble all the more riskier.
Firstly, there are a LOT of pilots out there who have a whole lot more hours compared to a fresh CPL holder. Secondly, if you're keeping abreast of current events, some airlines are facing financial difficulties and might lay off their pilots. You're competing against such people. Think about it.
I'm not cautioning NOT to self sponsor, cause I've been there and done that, but I'm cautioning against wearing rose-tinted glasses to view things. I do not want people to embark on that path and to regret it later.
My apologies if I sounded harsh but the fact of that matter is advertisements are NO basis for indicating that you will get there. You're talking about tens of thousands of dollars to get the license and if you do a search on DCA, there are some people who felt fleeced. Is it good? I can't tell you but there's NO such thing as a guaranteed job. I'm only trying to advise the people who's going for it to think twice, or even three times before committing such a huge sum of money into it and not getting a job in the end. If you can get a J1 Visa program, great, but if not? Having a very glossy brochure or website can substantiate your claims? Great! Good on ya, matey!
A piece of advice, if you will. Always take things with a pinch of salt until you've signed on the dotted line that you're employed as a professional pilot. Of course, you are correct in wanting your money to work for you (ie. getting employed) but since your friend is a CFI in Calgary, you can probably get a job at his outfit but not everyone is as lucky as you are. And it's also good to hear that a FIR can be obtained as quickly as 7 months from scratch. Kudos to that.
@Yantz,
No worries, mate. I'm cool. I got my CPL 3 years ago in Sydney. I was impressed by the brochures I see online too. It looks great! In reality? Reality is always a lot harsher. If I didn't get my current job, I would probably be an unemployed pilot because I was hunting for a job even before I got my CPL and times were bad. Am I a picky about jobs? No, but my main concern as I got my CPL is really unemployment and which part of the world I should be looking at. I have been down that path so I know how miserable it feels like to have a CPL and not being able to land a job.
In a previous post, I've already mentioned that most Singaporeans have a hard time getting to work in the 5 major cities cause of immigration and PR issues. No PR? No work. Plain and simple. You can work in the smaller towns/cities but it won't be easy building your hours.
Generally, I'm skeptical about getting jobs THAT easily, and I don't mean an airline job. I mean ANY job because some of my classmates who have their CPL are still jobless and they're still roaming the world in search of a job. I kid you not.
Oh... All these posts and I didn't get to the point. The main point of all my posts is that, there's NO such thing as a guaranteed job! Anyway, my posts are all linked in that it's always cautioning against having hopes too high cause it makes your gamble all the more riskier.
Firstly, there are a LOT of pilots out there who have a whole lot more hours compared to a fresh CPL holder. Secondly, if you're keeping abreast of current events, some airlines are facing financial difficulties and might lay off their pilots. You're competing against such people. Think about it.
I'm not cautioning NOT to self sponsor, cause I've been there and done that, but I'm cautioning against wearing rose-tinted glasses to view things. I do not want people to embark on that path and to regret it later.
Last edited by sgrookie; 20th Oct 2008 at 18:41. Reason: Added last paragraph
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A380 - Thanks for you views! I will go down personally to MFA to have a good look at the academy, condition of the aircrafts and hopefully get a word or two from the students there. I had expressed my interest to SFC in June this year before I ORDed. I was given an application form by the HR personnel to fill up and was told that they would KIV my application shall an interview excercise come along which was really nice of them. Initially I was told an interview excercise would be conducted in Aug which I later found out to be postponed to Nov. I called them yesterday only to find out that they have currently 6 flight instructors and would not require any new ab-initio instructors for the time being. Although I feel alittle frustrated, I will move on to plan B, MFA.
From Fly Damnit, I realize that although MFA has old aircraft, ****ty accomodation and food, however the training is decent and affordable. I don't wanna anyhow spend my father's money so I must try to find the most cost-efficient method and I don't think going to AUS, doing a CPL there which costs more and coming back to take more conversion papers would not help me save money.
If I ain't wrong SFC only accepts privately-funded candidates who are 26years old and above. The fee is SGD160K last I heard. Not cheap but you can expect a high standard of SIA-type training.
sgrookie - I have to agree that going to Australia to get a CASA license would be a hill-climb for any Singaporean shall he look for a job afterwards. Since you have been there and done that I can fully convince myself that going to Australia to train is not an option due to the extremely local-biased job market. In Malaysia I it seems the airlines don't accept low-hour foreign pilots however the flying schools entertain foreign flight instructors. So if no Singaporean airline wants me, I will slog it out up north instructing till I have some hours. I understand how easily the world of aviation is easily affected by the global financial state. We are heading into some dark times now and I therefore pray that upon my graduation the dark clouds would be gone.
Oh and one more thing, could we all give peace a chance in this nice thread of ours?
From Fly Damnit, I realize that although MFA has old aircraft, ****ty accomodation and food, however the training is decent and affordable. I don't wanna anyhow spend my father's money so I must try to find the most cost-efficient method and I don't think going to AUS, doing a CPL there which costs more and coming back to take more conversion papers would not help me save money.
If I ain't wrong SFC only accepts privately-funded candidates who are 26years old and above. The fee is SGD160K last I heard. Not cheap but you can expect a high standard of SIA-type training.
sgrookie - I have to agree that going to Australia to get a CASA license would be a hill-climb for any Singaporean shall he look for a job afterwards. Since you have been there and done that I can fully convince myself that going to Australia to train is not an option due to the extremely local-biased job market. In Malaysia I it seems the airlines don't accept low-hour foreign pilots however the flying schools entertain foreign flight instructors. So if no Singaporean airline wants me, I will slog it out up north instructing till I have some hours. I understand how easily the world of aviation is easily affected by the global financial state. We are heading into some dark times now and I therefore pray that upon my graduation the dark clouds would be gone.
Oh and one more thing, could we all give peace a chance in this nice thread of ours?
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Peace in the forum woohaa 
. But with all respect to sonic69, take ads with a pinch of salt. I'm not saying what you have said is untrue, just that taking into account weather, aircraft availability, no. of instructors, backlog etc, it wouldn't be so fast. Even phrixus29 said that weather was a major factor in Canada. In Msia, DCA says a CPL course takes 15 months but in reality, it takes 19-27 months, depending on which sch you're in becos of reasons as aforesaid. This happens in SFC too.
Nevertheless, we don't fight in the cockpit right, neither shd we here....self restraint is of utmost importance.
Just a word of advice for Yantz too (and others who are thinking of instructorship in msia). Try MFA, I think it would be a decent choice. Just that aviation among youngsters is now a crazy fashion in msia, long queues for every sch. Now they've got HMA, APFT, MFA, KLIFA, GGIFA, ITNS, IFAS and another one more in Terengganu come 2009. Imagine the no. of private cadets they churn out every year and not all will get into airlines. So what next? Instructorship will be their option. And when u finish at MFA, it will prob be 2010. So their protective DCA may very well leave u out of a job.
Pardon the wet blanket but this is my view...not sure if it makes sense to you.
So like sgrookie said, no aviation job is guaranteed...a lot depends on timing too. Do be prepared for jobs out of msia shd my forecast happen...
. But with all respect to sonic69, take ads with a pinch of salt. I'm not saying what you have said is untrue, just that taking into account weather, aircraft availability, no. of instructors, backlog etc, it wouldn't be so fast. Even phrixus29 said that weather was a major factor in Canada. In Msia, DCA says a CPL course takes 15 months but in reality, it takes 19-27 months, depending on which sch you're in becos of reasons as aforesaid. This happens in SFC too.Nevertheless, we don't fight in the cockpit right, neither shd we here....self restraint is of utmost importance.
Just a word of advice for Yantz too (and others who are thinking of instructorship in msia). Try MFA, I think it would be a decent choice. Just that aviation among youngsters is now a crazy fashion in msia, long queues for every sch. Now they've got HMA, APFT, MFA, KLIFA, GGIFA, ITNS, IFAS and another one more in Terengganu come 2009. Imagine the no. of private cadets they churn out every year and not all will get into airlines. So what next? Instructorship will be their option. And when u finish at MFA, it will prob be 2010. So their protective DCA may very well leave u out of a job.
Pardon the wet blanket but this is my view...not sure if it makes sense to you.
So like sgrookie said, no aviation job is guaranteed...a lot depends on timing too. Do be prepared for jobs out of msia shd my forecast happen...
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Hi guys,
I will highly agree with Sonic69 with regards to getting 1500 hours in 2 years...BUT this is only possible in the US,specifically in FLORIDA,where there is sunshine and you complete your full course in 7 mths and I also read about flight duty times and the blah..This is where the catch is..Duty times ONLY come in when you are a LINE PILOT and not when you are an instructor..So if there are very lil instructors and a whole load of students in your school,you could even build 2000 hours (just a figure I am putting).So don't worry about duty times if you are a flight instructor..Build as much and no one will say anything...In Canada,it is a NO-NO...weather is going to play against you..I can only speak about the North American Weather...
In flight training,there are 5 things thats gonna push your training schedule back and that's mainly, 1. Weather 2. Lack of Instructors 3. Lack of Aircrafts 4. Lack of Maintenance Personnel 5. Or simply bad management..
So if you guys can negate some of the bad factors listed above,you guys will be in the running to finish things off quick...
And Sonic69,you were saying you have a friend in Calgary who is a CFI of a flight school??I think you must be talking about "Uncle" Tay...lol..Small world, good friend of mine...we trained together and landed up in the same place together..
And about Sgrookie,you seem rather down with the fact that you can't find a job and all..As I have written previously,your first job is not going to come easy..but it will come with perseverance..Don't worry,give me till December,I will keep you guys rated pilots in the loop of a job opening flying a turbine aircraft..You just need to have 200 hours BUT the catch is you guys gotta leave your luxury lifestyles and hunt like a hunter..So when the time comes,I will inform you and I hope i don't get msgs asking me more abt the job and where the job is...I will tell you guys for sure but I won't put it out in public..I don't want some uncle from the west or Oceania to be reading and applying for jobs I wish the caucasians don't take..Sorry about that but I think its only fair...
Cheers Guys..
I will highly agree with Sonic69 with regards to getting 1500 hours in 2 years...BUT this is only possible in the US,specifically in FLORIDA,where there is sunshine and you complete your full course in 7 mths and I also read about flight duty times and the blah..This is where the catch is..Duty times ONLY come in when you are a LINE PILOT and not when you are an instructor..So if there are very lil instructors and a whole load of students in your school,you could even build 2000 hours (just a figure I am putting).So don't worry about duty times if you are a flight instructor..Build as much and no one will say anything...In Canada,it is a NO-NO...weather is going to play against you..I can only speak about the North American Weather...
In flight training,there are 5 things thats gonna push your training schedule back and that's mainly, 1. Weather 2. Lack of Instructors 3. Lack of Aircrafts 4. Lack of Maintenance Personnel 5. Or simply bad management..
So if you guys can negate some of the bad factors listed above,you guys will be in the running to finish things off quick...
And Sonic69,you were saying you have a friend in Calgary who is a CFI of a flight school??I think you must be talking about "Uncle" Tay...lol..Small world, good friend of mine...we trained together and landed up in the same place together..
And about Sgrookie,you seem rather down with the fact that you can't find a job and all..As I have written previously,your first job is not going to come easy..but it will come with perseverance..Don't worry,give me till December,I will keep you guys rated pilots in the loop of a job opening flying a turbine aircraft..You just need to have 200 hours BUT the catch is you guys gotta leave your luxury lifestyles and hunt like a hunter..So when the time comes,I will inform you and I hope i don't get msgs asking me more abt the job and where the job is...I will tell you guys for sure but I won't put it out in public..I don't want some uncle from the west or Oceania to be reading and applying for jobs I wish the caucasians don't take..Sorry about that but I think its only fair...
Cheers Guys..
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@phrixus29
Thanks. That's what I meant, about duty times not covering flight instructors in the US. In other parts of the world, flight and duty times is all-encompassing even where flight instructors are concerned. That's why I'm asking if I'm missing out on something. Anyway, thanks for sharing the info out here. The job offer is promising too though I'm now a happily employed pilot, but thanks once again!
Such job info would be very very good to self-sponsored pilots as it makes things so much easier.
Thanks. That's what I meant, about duty times not covering flight instructors in the US. In other parts of the world, flight and duty times is all-encompassing even where flight instructors are concerned. That's why I'm asking if I'm missing out on something. Anyway, thanks for sharing the info out here. The job offer is promising too though I'm now a happily employed pilot, but thanks once again!
Such job info would be very very good to self-sponsored pilots as it makes things so much easier.
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Well Said
Originally Posted by HenC
However, u come from a Malaysian/S'pore PR background, right? Cos this thread reflects the difficulty of self sponsored Singaporeans entering the airlines, ... ...
I read all posts very carefully. Lots of people are blur-blur, they don't read what the sentence means.
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some advise
ive been following the posts on here and am really amazed at the
dedication, its great to see people working hard and enjoying it at the
same time, even tho there are some obstacles
I was wondering if u may have a suggestion, i would like to know if anyone
has any information in the AIRLAW exam, i mean i checked the ano but is
there perhaps a sample paper one could look at
OR any advise for any
study material?? im bit lost on it, thankyou fly safe
dedication, its great to see people working hard and enjoying it at the
same time, even tho there are some obstacles
I was wondering if u may have a suggestion, i would like to know if anyone
has any information in the AIRLAW exam, i mean i checked the ano but is
there perhaps a sample paper one could look at
OR any advise for any study material?? im bit lost on it, thankyou fly safe
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ljjthegreat
I am not an expert on this topic but i can definitely say that a JAA license was way in demand than an FAA license or any other ICAO license for that matter, but that has recently changed in Singapore in particular where CAAS has decided to recognise both and other ICAO licenses as well.
Reason:
Companies know the in depth theoretical knowledge the pilot has acquired.JAA licenses are very pro theoretical knowledge.Asian countries in particular have their training modules outlined according to the JAA licensing system.Similar to our O'Level and A levels..we have very European standards, and not American standards.
An American pilot can fly as well as a European Pilot,but the only difference is the detailed theoretical study which many asian airline companies always preferred.
Even the latest trend these days of doing your flight training under the MPL system is from Europe.
I won't say which is better or so,but if I had the dough to stash,I would have gone for the JAA program for sure without even thinking twice.
I am not an expert on this topic but i can definitely say that a JAA license was way in demand than an FAA license or any other ICAO license for that matter, but that has recently changed in Singapore in particular where CAAS has decided to recognise both and other ICAO licenses as well.
Reason:
Companies know the in depth theoretical knowledge the pilot has acquired.JAA licenses are very pro theoretical knowledge.Asian countries in particular have their training modules outlined according to the JAA licensing system.Similar to our O'Level and A levels..we have very European standards, and not American standards.
An American pilot can fly as well as a European Pilot,but the only difference is the detailed theoretical study which many asian airline companies always preferred.
Even the latest trend these days of doing your flight training under the MPL system is from Europe.
I won't say which is better or so,but if I had the dough to stash,I would have gone for the JAA program for sure without even thinking twice.
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Hi ljjthegreat,
Your plan is definitely exceptional for sure.There are schools in the US and Canada that offer the JAA program for students who want to do the JAA program in a country that is way much cheaper than in Europe.
You will definitely have to check with the JAA guys in Europe with respect to whether the school in US is a certified school given the authority to hold a JAA program.Some schools are given the green light to hold a JAA program but some schools are not and they simply advertise to lure students in and then you realise at the end of the day that school was not certified to even conduct a JAA program,though they have advertised it and you think you are doing it.
In terms of working in the US,brilliant idea..you don't want to come back and get stuck not being able to find a flying job..Chances are that you will be allowed to stay in the US for a year or so only after which you will have to leave the country but by then you will have gained enough flying hours to look attractive to many other employers.In the US they have a J-1 visa that allows you to work for a year after graduation but ONLY as a flight instructor.If you are looking for a flying job as a line pilot with a charter company or so,your chances are close to zero.They rather hire a local american as compared to a foreigner because your immigration status becomes a problem to employers and they don't want to deal with the paper work for you.Your best bet is an FI job and this will definitely give you a whole load of hours.
Advice from myself:go to a smaller flight school as compared to a bigger academy.Your chances of employment will be more excellent.And the training is the same as anywhere you go but yeah you will have to consider your JAA license as well which you are thinking of pursuing as well..
Cheers my friend
Your plan is definitely exceptional for sure.There are schools in the US and Canada that offer the JAA program for students who want to do the JAA program in a country that is way much cheaper than in Europe.
You will definitely have to check with the JAA guys in Europe with respect to whether the school in US is a certified school given the authority to hold a JAA program.Some schools are given the green light to hold a JAA program but some schools are not and they simply advertise to lure students in and then you realise at the end of the day that school was not certified to even conduct a JAA program,though they have advertised it and you think you are doing it.
In terms of working in the US,brilliant idea..you don't want to come back and get stuck not being able to find a flying job..Chances are that you will be allowed to stay in the US for a year or so only after which you will have to leave the country but by then you will have gained enough flying hours to look attractive to many other employers.In the US they have a J-1 visa that allows you to work for a year after graduation but ONLY as a flight instructor.If you are looking for a flying job as a line pilot with a charter company or so,your chances are close to zero.They rather hire a local american as compared to a foreigner because your immigration status becomes a problem to employers and they don't want to deal with the paper work for you.Your best bet is an FI job and this will definitely give you a whole load of hours.
Advice from myself:go to a smaller flight school as compared to a bigger academy.Your chances of employment will be more excellent.And the training is the same as anywhere you go but yeah you will have to consider your JAA license as well which you are thinking of pursuing as well..
Cheers my friend