Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI, SYFC's GM is not an active RSAF COL but a retired RSAF COL.
Also, under SYFC entry pre-requisites, only JC/POLY students with a minimum age of 16 can apply. NUS, NTU or SMU students are unable to apply. If they are so called friendly or flexible, then I think there must be some kind of double standards within the club? Not exactly fair to the rest of the other students who are pursuing PPLs in Malaysia or through other flying clubs in Singapore.
Also, under SYFC entry pre-requisites, only JC/POLY students with a minimum age of 16 can apply. NUS, NTU or SMU students are unable to apply. If they are so called friendly or flexible, then I think there must be some kind of double standards within the club? Not exactly fair to the rest of the other students who are pursuing PPLs in Malaysia or through other flying clubs in Singapore.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought the GM is NS and OM is Ret. Regardless, its purpose is to groom potentials from RSAF and the interview board includes an air force representitive. Since SYFC trains selected students for free, its only right that they choose these students as they please. So of course they will consider an applicant's potential for RSAF. Would you consider it unfair that SYFC trainees must pass the RSAF medical instead of class 2 required of trainees at other clubs?
STATA also offers the MPL but my understanding is that few if any air operators accept this? So far I've only heard about China Southern cadets going through this. How can a MPL be extended to fATPL or CFI? If possible, would this be a better alternative to the PPL CPL route?
So where is it mentioned that an instructor bond is available? Likewise for SFC
STATA also offers the MPL but my understanding is that few if any air operators accept this? So far I've only heard about China Southern cadets going through this. How can a MPL be extended to fATPL or CFI? If possible, would this be a better alternative to the PPL CPL route?
Does STATA provide financial sponsorship schemes to cadet pilots for the IAPT Programme?
No. STATA does not have such policies in place.
No. STATA does not have such policies in place.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Yantz - No, I am not training with STATA at this moment though I am keeping options open.
@ singapore_flyer - Exactly. One of those catch-22 situation which STATA should address in their bid to gain CAAS FTO status.
As for MPL.
The MPL route has been discussed at length on threads in the "Wannabes" forum ("Wannabes".. heh, that's me!) - it has its fair share of speculations, misconceptions, supporters and detractors.
Start here and read further the threads linked.
Understand the facts, assess the risks and make an informed decision.
Perhaps another reason why STATA offers the CASA licenses is that CAAS requires all CPL/ATPL holders to gain employment with a 9V- operator. So I have a question here, can a private candidate choose to train with SFC and not be bonded(i.e. not gain employment with a local operator) and hold the CAAS CPL?
As for MPL.
The MPL route has been discussed at length on threads in the "Wannabes" forum ("Wannabes".. heh, that's me!) - it has its fair share of speculations, misconceptions, supporters and detractors.
Start here and read further the threads linked.
Understand the facts, assess the risks and make an informed decision.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The instructor bond for SFC has already been on-going for quite sometime now. I knew of its existance through hear say and I have asked SFC myself which has confirmed this.
As for STATA I was told by a guy from Massey Uni that they were head-hunting fresh grads from there to be instructors however they also offer a bond of 3 years if you are ab-initio and that's if they like you. I have went down to STATA to enquire on this and they confirmed it. If not, you can always make a trip down to double check with them.
As for STATA I was told by a guy from Massey Uni that they were head-hunting fresh grads from there to be instructors however they also offer a bond of 3 years if you are ab-initio and that's if they like you. I have went down to STATA to enquire on this and they confirmed it. If not, you can always make a trip down to double check with them.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lala Land
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes bro but i have heard that the pay is a fixed AUD 3.3 K and one has to pay AUD 15 K upfront for the AFI course, then the possibility of being reimbursed later. Not such fantastic terms, given the higher standard of living as compared to Malaysia. Moreover, the pay in Msia's flight schs are higher and also taking into account airfares to and fro.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hiphippyhippo - great for you! Did you apply and get in sucessfully upon graduating from Massey?
singapore001- but are Singaporeans able to get a job easily in Malaysia? From what I heard there is a huge pool of low-hour Malaysian pilots who are hungry to get whatever jobs they can get their hands on.. or maybe I am wrong and there is indeed a huge shortage of instructors because it is not as 'glamorous' as flying the big jets.
singapore001- but are Singaporeans able to get a job easily in Malaysia? From what I heard there is a huge pool of low-hour Malaysian pilots who are hungry to get whatever jobs they can get their hands on.. or maybe I am wrong and there is indeed a huge shortage of instructors because it is not as 'glamorous' as flying the big jets.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lala Land
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fresh CPL holders as long as ICAO are welcome in Malaysia as instructors. Airlines can forget it 'cos their DCA is very protective of their citizens.
A new AFI can earn a basic of between RM 5-7k in Msia. Taking into account flying allowance of RM $50-60 per hour and assuming 85 hours a mth, the total can hit RM $10-12k. Now one can imagine how much a senior instructor would earn then. Oh btw, MFA's pay is the lowest by a mile, absolutely peanuts..no point quoting theirs. HMA's pay for an AFI is roughly as I initially quoted though.
No Msian just out of a flying sch would want to be an instructor. 99% think airlines are more glam and they will try for that. That explains the huge shortage of FIs in Msia.
A pity their DCA protects their citizens while our CAAS does otherwise. A potently bad combo for Sgporeans who wanna self-fund and aspire for the airlines.
A new AFI can earn a basic of between RM 5-7k in Msia. Taking into account flying allowance of RM $50-60 per hour and assuming 85 hours a mth, the total can hit RM $10-12k. Now one can imagine how much a senior instructor would earn then. Oh btw, MFA's pay is the lowest by a mile, absolutely peanuts..no point quoting theirs. HMA's pay for an AFI is roughly as I initially quoted though.
No Msian just out of a flying sch would want to be an instructor. 99% think airlines are more glam and they will try for that. That explains the huge shortage of FIs in Msia.
A pity their DCA protects their citizens while our CAAS does otherwise. A potently bad combo for Sgporeans who wanna self-fund and aspire for the airlines.
Last edited by HenC; 29th Sep 2008 at 13:21.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HenC- That is a great reply. Gives a really good insight into the world of instructing up north. The malaysian carriers have only so much vacancies plus now because of the rocketing fuel the airlines are tightening their belts, taking in less pilots. I wonder where all the fresh CPL holders would go then?
HenC you are currently enrolled in HMA? How is the situation there? I know MFA is quite messy now..
HenC you are currently enrolled in HMA? How is the situation there? I know MFA is quite messy now..
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys, I am new to this forum. Very glad that it actually exists & pretty much alive. Am a fellow Sgporean, age 29. I had sent in application for SQ cadet programme but till now no respond from them (6mth), probably due to my result(got D7 for English, did combine science instead of pure physic during O level).Well, the dream dun ends here. In fact, its juz the begining... I juz realise to fly as a career, SQ cadet programme or the airforce is not the only way out. There are many flight school around to train people from zero hrs up to 200 hrs with CPL/IR or even fATPL. As I am unable to secure a loan to fund for the integrated course fulltime, I was wondering if anyone could advice on another way to get it done part time, as in get a PPL, CPL/IR, ME,fATPL... I was told it would be cheaper this way but will take a longer time to clock hrs. I intended to get a PPL from a Malaysia flyin club, but they do not progress to CPL after that. Getting a PPL is not an issue for me as I can still manage to do it progressively. But How do I get the CPL/IR & ME after obtaining my PPL? Do I need to join the flight school which requires me to stay in for the course full-time? If it does, the school train its student starts from basic(PPL) again. Then, won't it be stupid of me to spend $$ twice on PPL. Does anyone know of any school that offers CPL/IR courses after PPL? It seems like most of the schools' CPL courses consist of a PPL. Is there any recognise flight school that provides its course progressively like those in drivin school, e.i class 3, class 4 & then class 5?
I know this is not easy as money is the major obstacle. As I cant do it full time, then I shall do it the modular way. I may be wrong on some of the info I've got but can anyone kind enough to share or advise on how actually does the modular ways work?
With all the due respect...
Thanks...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lala Land
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To : Yantz
U r most welcome. There are 6 or 7 airlines in Msia...MAS, Air Asia, Mas Wings, Firefly, Berjaya, Transmile etc.
MAS is having a backlog of cadets on standby for SIM. Air Asia is still aggressive I think, they have 1 new A320 a mth. Not sure about the rest. Anyway, if one is foreign with low hours, can forget it.
And let's just say I was with a flying sch in Msia. 
HMA just charged its graduating students an extra RM 50k each. And this batch of students took 27 mths to complete. MFA is pretty cleaned up now but facilities a little not too gd. Aircraft aplenty though and the course shd take less than 20 mths.
MAS is having a backlog of cadets on standby for SIM. Air Asia is still aggressive I think, they have 1 new A320 a mth. Not sure about the rest. Anyway, if one is foreign with low hours, can forget it.
And let's just say I was with a flying sch in Msia.
HMA just charged its graduating students an extra RM 50k each. And this batch of students took 27 mths to complete. MFA is pretty cleaned up now but facilities a little not too gd. Aircraft aplenty though and the course shd take less than 20 mths.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lala Land
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To : PW4000
Yes of course, I salute ur spirit. No SIA does not mean the end of one's aviation career or dream.
If u do a PPL at a flying club first and then join a flying sch, the sch MAY charge u for PPL again or if not, reject u. Aviation is crazy among teens in msia now and hordes are queueing up, so why wld the schs settle for less $ when they can get more?
Hmm...and I wouldn't advise a part time kind of course, it's difficult to fit one into the sch's flying and ground sch schedule. Well, I'm no expert on this and perhaps other chaps here can help.
If u do a PPL at a flying club first and then join a flying sch, the sch MAY charge u for PPL again or if not, reject u. Aviation is crazy among teens in msia now and hordes are queueing up, so why wld the schs settle for less $ when they can get more?
Hmm...and I wouldn't advise a part time kind of course, it's difficult to fit one into the sch's flying and ground sch schedule. Well, I'm no expert on this and perhaps other chaps here can help.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PW4000, sorry for being blunt, but isn't D7 considered a fail?
It would be stupid of you to spend $$ twice on PPL because almost all flight schools that offer CPL will accept your PPL(if from same authority) or at most require minimal conversion. Modular just means you don't go from zero to hero in 1 shot. Many people work as flight instructors after CPL while studying for their IR/ATP. You sound like you want to learn flying on a part time basis, like learning driving on weekends, it doesn't work that way. I would consider the PPL ground school exams as challenging as maybe an O level subject, and that's just 5 papers. I remember the CAAS ATP consisting of ~21 papers.
There are some things you should consider before starting your training, you need to fly a minimum of X hours a year to keep your licence current. For example, if you don't at least fly 5 hours a year, your certificate of experience for your PPL will expire, so you'll need to take another checkride. Likewise for CPL. ATP papers are valid for 5yrs generally, meaning you need to hit your 1500th hour by the 5th yr or you'll have to take the papers again and they are not as easy as your BTT. So be sure that you want to change career and tahan its risks before setting out.
Well all in all you should take 3mths off and get the PPL if you're interested to have a taste of what its like.
But How do I get the CPL/IR & ME after obtaining my PPL? Do I need to join the flight school which requires me to stay in for the course full-time? If it does, the school train its student starts from basic(PPL) again. Then, won't it be stupid of me to spend $$ twice on PPL. Does anyone know of any school that offers CPL/IR courses after PPL? It seems like most of the schools' CPL courses consist of a PPL.
There are some things you should consider before starting your training, you need to fly a minimum of X hours a year to keep your licence current. For example, if you don't at least fly 5 hours a year, your certificate of experience for your PPL will expire, so you'll need to take another checkride. Likewise for CPL. ATP papers are valid for 5yrs generally, meaning you need to hit your 1500th hour by the 5th yr or you'll have to take the papers again and they are not as easy as your BTT. So be sure that you want to change career and tahan its risks before setting out.
Well all in all you should take 3mths off and get the PPL if you're interested to have a taste of what its like.
Last edited by singapore_flyer; 1st Oct 2008 at 04:29.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S Flyer
I understand that. Since I cant afford to go flight school to get it done one shot, guess I juz have to do it other ways. So S Flyer, u mean after getin PPL from a Malaysia flying club i.e ELITE, JOHORE or FRAS, long as it is registered under ICAO, it will have no problem convertin to CAAS?
So after PPL(approx. 50 -60 hrs), I need to clock 190 - 200 hrs to get a CPL? Do I need to go thru any school for that or I juz need to fly on my own? As u mentioned, fATPL is juz CPL + some theory test.
So assuming I got my PPL, flew some total 250 hrs, got my CPL, clear some test papers, get a fATPL.. Would any airline, be it major or regional, even look at my profile since I dun even have Multi-Eng & IR even if I manage to unfreeze it? Before I get further, is a CPL single engine or multi? Pardon me, for I am still not very fimiliar with all the terms. If its single engine, how can I get to Multi-Engine rating if I am not frome any flight school?
Paying to clock hrs all the way to unfreeze ATPL is ridiculous, but if I am that hungry enough, might juz do some crazy things. But I am sure somewhere in between I should be able to take up an Instructor course & get paid a decent salary while clockin hrs(need not be very high long as can maintain a basic standard of livin yet dun have to starve..) But wat is the chances of gettin an Instructor's job? I hear in Malaysia they only employ malaysian, Is that true?
Hear that some regional airline do take in fATPL pilots, but wat is the min requirement they lookin for? Some mention someting like turbopop or jet time? wat does it mean? Are those Cessena we flying turbopop or juz constant speed propella?
I have too much to ask & find out. I am so sorry if u guys are gettin paranoid but I really ain't got no idea how it actually goes abt. In this country, our government tryin to give its new name "Aviation Hub" yet it does not even provide path for pilot wanabes by settin up schools or revelant academy except STATA, SFC, SYFC... It really kills the dreams of every boy when they get rejected by SQ or Airforce or if they happen to come from average family that cant fund for their filght sch..
Well, I wont give up. If I can't cross this hundle now, there are many more to come. And If I eventually make it, at the end of the day, the reward will taste juz as sweet..juz as those commercial pilots, I believe every flight is never the same, always full of challenges.
Hope u guys out there could give me some advise or suggestion..
Thanks....
I understand that. Since I cant afford to go flight school to get it done one shot, guess I juz have to do it other ways. So S Flyer, u mean after getin PPL from a Malaysia flying club i.e ELITE, JOHORE or FRAS, long as it is registered under ICAO, it will have no problem convertin to CAAS?
So after PPL(approx. 50 -60 hrs), I need to clock 190 - 200 hrs to get a CPL? Do I need to go thru any school for that or I juz need to fly on my own? As u mentioned, fATPL is juz CPL + some theory test.
So assuming I got my PPL, flew some total 250 hrs, got my CPL, clear some test papers, get a fATPL.. Would any airline, be it major or regional, even look at my profile since I dun even have Multi-Eng & IR even if I manage to unfreeze it? Before I get further, is a CPL single engine or multi? Pardon me, for I am still not very fimiliar with all the terms. If its single engine, how can I get to Multi-Engine rating if I am not frome any flight school?
Paying to clock hrs all the way to unfreeze ATPL is ridiculous, but if I am that hungry enough, might juz do some crazy things.
But I am sure somewhere in between I should be able to take up an Instructor course & get paid a decent salary while clockin hrs(need not be very high long as can maintain a basic standard of livin yet dun have to starve..) But wat is the chances of gettin an Instructor's job? I hear in Malaysia they only employ malaysian, Is that true?Hear that some regional airline do take in fATPL pilots, but wat is the min requirement they lookin for? Some mention someting like turbopop or jet time? wat does it mean? Are those Cessena we flying turbopop or juz constant speed propella?
I have too much to ask & find out. I am so sorry if u guys are gettin paranoid but I really ain't got no idea how it actually goes abt. In this country, our government tryin to give its new name "Aviation Hub" yet it does not even provide path for pilot wanabes by settin up schools or revelant academy except STATA, SFC, SYFC... It really kills the dreams of every boy when they get rejected by SQ or Airforce or if they happen to come from average family that cant fund for their filght sch..
Well, I wont give up. If I can't cross this hundle now, there are many more to come. And If I eventually make it, at the end of the day, the reward will taste juz as sweet..juz as those commercial pilots, I believe every flight is never the same, always full of challenges.
Hope u guys out there could give me some advise or suggestion..
Thanks....
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mate, CAAS ATPL papers only consists of 14 papers 2 years ago. They dropped Morse code, so should be 13 now. I believe that the 21 papers belongs to JAA, but I'll get back to you on it. Checking with a friend on that.
And PW4000, combined science is not a factor as long as you have Physics. I got in and I'm a combined science student too. Should also consider what Singapore flyer said as well. Those are major points of concern, especially for license currency, and if you're a CPL holder, you must do a IR test every year as well. So, do think about it and best of luck!
And PW4000, combined science is not a factor as long as you have Physics. I got in and I'm a combined science student too. Should also consider what Singapore flyer said as well. Those are major points of concern, especially for license currency, and if you're a CPL holder, you must do a IR test every year as well. So, do think about it and best of luck!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
reading thru pw4000 posting as above, i suddenly remembered...
i have this friend of mine, my bestfriend in fact, chia wee, who failed his maths (d7), combined science (e8) and combined humans (d7) during his O levels and only have 4 O level passes. so yah, he went ite. he did well, and got a place in a local polytechnic.
i would say he's an aviation geek. he knew alot about the aviation world; from the types of airliners all the way to cockpit crew management thingy. he even have a ppl obtained from a flying club in senai.
so yah, chia wee is just another average student with average grades in poly from an average family whom i know who are tight on finance, but chia wee and i share the same dream; to become an airline pilot one day.
now, chia wee asked me to post this 3 questions below from him on this thread. he wanted to know what the thread community's opinions are when he got to know im in it.
so before i forgot again, here are his questions.
1) do u think i have the chance of joining sia or any top airlines considering my 4 O levels at one sitting and my soon-to-be-attained degree in engineering from NTU? im oredy 28 this year.
2) should i continue to study for the cpl/ir with fatpl straight after my graduation from ntu, or just apply for the airlines? im at 100++ hrs of ppl now.
3) does an O level failure and an ite graduate like me increase my chances of not getting a place in any airlines as i heard most airline pilots are jc A level holders with excellent grades and no failures?
ur advices are all truly appreciated.
i have this friend of mine, my bestfriend in fact, chia wee, who failed his maths (d7), combined science (e8) and combined humans (d7) during his O levels and only have 4 O level passes. so yah, he went ite. he did well, and got a place in a local polytechnic.
i would say he's an aviation geek. he knew alot about the aviation world; from the types of airliners all the way to cockpit crew management thingy. he even have a ppl obtained from a flying club in senai.
so yah, chia wee is just another average student with average grades in poly from an average family whom i know who are tight on finance, but chia wee and i share the same dream; to become an airline pilot one day.
now, chia wee asked me to post this 3 questions below from him on this thread. he wanted to know what the thread community's opinions are when he got to know im in it.
so before i forgot again, here are his questions.
1) do u think i have the chance of joining sia or any top airlines considering my 4 O levels at one sitting and my soon-to-be-attained degree in engineering from NTU? im oredy 28 this year.
2) should i continue to study for the cpl/ir with fatpl straight after my graduation from ntu, or just apply for the airlines? im at 100++ hrs of ppl now.
3) does an O level failure and an ite graduate like me increase my chances of not getting a place in any airlines as i heard most airline pilots are jc A level holders with excellent grades and no failures?
ur advices are all truly appreciated.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In saying 'same authority' I mean the individual country's aviation authority eg. CAAS CASA FAA JAA. So if you have an australian CASA PPL you would probably be exampted when you sign up for a CASA CPL course. You would need to sit for some papers and a checkride if you sign up for a malaysian CPL instead.
CPL is not PPL+250TT. You must learn a whole bunch of flying skills and theory paper to sit for the CPL checkride when you have clocked 250hrs. FYI PPL minimum is 35hrs with at least 10hrs solo if I don't remember wrongly. So of course you must go to a school and train with an instructor who will sign you off for the checkride. As a PPL holder w/o CFI rating you can't teach yourself how to fly. Most CPL by default includes ME and almost everyone does IR at the same time. Fresh pilots have a slim to zero chance of employment at jet airlines. I don't know what the situation is like in Malaysia so I won't anyhow say. You can try to get an employment pass while training down under, otherwise the future is quite bleak for Singaporean low hour CPLs. C152/172s PA28 are not even constant speed. They are piston, not turboprop, a SAAB 340 is an example of turboprop - jet engines spinning a propeller. Jet time simply means jet aircraft time i.e CRJ/737NG/A320 etc. The catch is, turboprops and above are operated by commuter/regional airlines and above which have minimums at ~500hrs and above. No point blaming the government as changes if any won't happen in our time frame. By 'aviation hub' I think they mean 'aircraft maintanance/air freight/passenger transit hub'. No point telling us how much you love flying as we don't decide if you're hired. So think hard about how you are going to get your first airline job(which is what I'm doing!) and hope you get lucky
CPL is not PPL+250TT. You must learn a whole bunch of flying skills and theory paper to sit for the CPL checkride when you have clocked 250hrs. FYI PPL minimum is 35hrs with at least 10hrs solo if I don't remember wrongly. So of course you must go to a school and train with an instructor who will sign you off for the checkride. As a PPL holder w/o CFI rating you can't teach yourself how to fly. Most CPL by default includes ME and almost everyone does IR at the same time. Fresh pilots have a slim to zero chance of employment at jet airlines. I don't know what the situation is like in Malaysia so I won't anyhow say. You can try to get an employment pass while training down under, otherwise the future is quite bleak for Singaporean low hour CPLs. C152/172s PA28 are not even constant speed. They are piston, not turboprop, a SAAB 340 is an example of turboprop - jet engines spinning a propeller. Jet time simply means jet aircraft time i.e CRJ/737NG/A320 etc. The catch is, turboprops and above are operated by commuter/regional airlines and above which have minimums at ~500hrs and above. No point blaming the government as changes if any won't happen in our time frame. By 'aviation hub' I think they mean 'aircraft maintanance/air freight/passenger transit hub'. No point telling us how much you love flying as we don't decide if you're hired. So think hard about how you are going to get your first airline job(which is what I'm doing!) and hope you get lucky