Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
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Sorry to bring this thread up again...with reference to flight instructing at SFC, joining LCCs, are there good chances of succeeding? As far as I can see their requirements are jet time and even type rated on the specific jets (A320 especially). For Singaporeans is it really just SIA or nothing?
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the SIN based LCC's do not hire fresh pilots even if they get their own type rating this is very sad news for the local guys who are self funded pilots.
May be HK airlines based in HKG would look at you guys if you got your own type on 737NG...all the best
May be HK airlines based in HKG would look at you guys if you got your own type on 737NG...all the best
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Sounds really discouraging! 
Care to quote the source of your info?
I'm currently doing my training in APFT Kelantan...really hope to be employed back in S'pore. Even if not, I'm prepared to work for Air Asia or even be an instructor there!
Doing all that it takes........
Care to quote the source of your info?
I'm currently doing my training in APFT Kelantan...really hope to be employed back in S'pore. Even if not, I'm prepared to work for Air Asia or even be an instructor there!
Doing all that it takes........
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Hello All,
going a bit out of the present discussion, anyone here doing SIN ATP exams? more specifically anyone here currently, or planning in the near future, or have done the exams this year????
Need some help (or rather... lots of help). me planning to do it this June.
Regards,
another self sponsered license holder
going a bit out of the present discussion, anyone here doing SIN ATP exams? more specifically anyone here currently, or planning in the near future, or have done the exams this year????
Need some help (or rather... lots of help). me planning to do it this June.
Regards,
another self sponsered license holder
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Licenses
[/QOUTE]thus, """"IF"""""" and when one has passed SIA's interview, ATPL(only for oxford and MFA) and basic flying phase in perth are not required, straight into learjet phase. i can name at least 10 names from the top of my head that has gone through this route. [/QOUTE]
Hi, I am confused by the licenses. ATPL from Oxford Aviation Training is UKCAA. ATPL from MFA is DCA. ATPL from Singapore Flying College is CAAS compliant. So if SIA recognise ATPL from Oxford and MFA, does it mean that the UKCAA and malaysia's DCA ATPLs are recognised by singapore's CAAS? If this is the case, why does SIA only recognise ATPLs from OAT and MFA, since if a school like HMA (or APFT or whatever) complies to DCA, its license will be of the same standard as that of MFA? Similarly, if all the schools in the UK complies to UKCAA (just like Oxford) shouldn't they all be recognised by SIA?
Hi, I am confused by the licenses. ATPL from Oxford Aviation Training is UKCAA. ATPL from MFA is DCA. ATPL from Singapore Flying College is CAAS compliant. So if SIA recognise ATPL from Oxford and MFA, does it mean that the UKCAA and malaysia's DCA ATPLs are recognised by singapore's CAAS? If this is the case, why does SIA only recognise ATPLs from OAT and MFA, since if a school like HMA (or APFT or whatever) complies to DCA, its license will be of the same standard as that of MFA? Similarly, if all the schools in the UK complies to UKCAA (just like Oxford) shouldn't they all be recognised by SIA?
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Let me try and make the licence conversion / recognition process understandable in 3 easy steps.
1. SIA may have certain flying schools they regard as up to the mark. But SIA is not the one who "recognises" whose licence is valid or not valid. It is CAAS. For more info go to:
http://www.caas.gov.sg/caas/en/Regul...intenance.html
and download AC FCL-1(0) dated 1 Jan 2007 titled Conversion of Foreign Profession Pilot Licenses.
CAAS must first recognise and be willing to convert a licence from another country. THEN and ONLY THEN will SIA will think about whether they want to hire that person. SIA may like a candidate very much during the interview stage but if CAAS does not want to convert the licence SIA isn't going to do **** about it, especially for cadets. As simple as that.
2. Don't worry about the logic. No point making chaining together if-this-and that, so how come it-isn't-that-and-that etc. There isn't any logic involved. Before the latest CAAS document came out the process was even more mysterious.
3. Don't even think about inventing your own path to an ATPL and hoping that CAAS will give you face. They don't give face to SIA, why should they give face to you? You'll screw yourself properly if you think you can produce an ATPL abd get CAAS to endorse it. Just follow the CAAS yellow brick road.
Good luck. Because getting an ATPL on your own is a huge gamble not as to whether you will pass but as to whether you will find a job here as a Singapore passport holder, not to mention overseas where not having a passport of that country is already a huge disadvantage.
1. SIA may have certain flying schools they regard as up to the mark. But SIA is not the one who "recognises" whose licence is valid or not valid. It is CAAS. For more info go to:
http://www.caas.gov.sg/caas/en/Regul...intenance.html
and download AC FCL-1(0) dated 1 Jan 2007 titled Conversion of Foreign Profession Pilot Licenses.
CAAS must first recognise and be willing to convert a licence from another country. THEN and ONLY THEN will SIA will think about whether they want to hire that person. SIA may like a candidate very much during the interview stage but if CAAS does not want to convert the licence SIA isn't going to do **** about it, especially for cadets. As simple as that.
2. Don't worry about the logic. No point making chaining together if-this-and that, so how come it-isn't-that-and-that etc. There isn't any logic involved. Before the latest CAAS document came out the process was even more mysterious.
3. Don't even think about inventing your own path to an ATPL and hoping that CAAS will give you face. They don't give face to SIA, why should they give face to you? You'll screw yourself properly if you think you can produce an ATPL abd get CAAS to endorse it. Just follow the CAAS yellow brick road.
Good luck. Because getting an ATPL on your own is a huge gamble not as to whether you will pass but as to whether you will find a job here as a Singapore passport holder, not to mention overseas where not having a passport of that country is already a huge disadvantage.
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Thanks Thermal, things are clear now that there is a document. What I understood from the document:
From the document, one of the pre-requisites is that the foreign license holder "..must hold a professional pilot licence issued by an ICAO contracting state in accordance with ICAO Annex 1." This Annex contains malaysia.
Also it was stated that "For holders of ATPL(A) issued by DCA Malaysia, full credits may be granted for the Technical Group of papers and the ATPL Navigation Group of papers, provided the holder has passed the relevant papers by DCA Malaysia...". Which means I don't have to re-sit the ATPL exams if I were to hold a license from say a school in malaysia that is DCA compliant.
However "...The holder of a foreign pilot licence of an ICAO contracting State applying for conversion should complete Parts I to VI of Form CAAS(FO)01 and submit a copy of his licence and relevant documents as required in Paragraph 8 to the recruitment officer of prospective employer (“air operator”) for screening. The air operator’s recruitment officer is required to
assess the licence and documents for their validity and completeness, and if found satisfactory, he should complete Part VII of Form CAAS(FO)01. Part VIII of Form CAAS(FO)01 requires the Chief Pilot of the air operator fleet or Head of Training to recommend a suitable training programme for the foreign pilot for CAAS’ approval."
The above requires the foreign license holder to apply to CAAS for conversion, through the air operator's recruitment officer and the Chief Pilot. Which means that the foreign license holder's employment must have already been secured with his employers even before application. So besides satisfying all the pre-requisites in the CAAS document, it all boils down to whether the air operator "recognises" the school where I graduated from.
What I need to know is (besides SIA which "recognises" schools like OAT, Massey and MFA), what schools does other air operators like SYFC or whatever operators based in singapore recognise? Are there any cargo air operators based in Singapore?
I'm Singaporean and have nearly zero chance with SIA. I'm assuming the worst case scenario that SFC (full subsidiary of SIA) rejects me for the instructor course, leaving me with not many choices left in Singapore. Of course many singaporeans fly in malaysia. I'm finding options that you may have heard of.
I'm finding as I get older and when reality sets in (yes parent need to eat), I'm getting a little more worried about spending $80k on a license (not including opportunity costs of annual income) and not getting a job.
From the document, one of the pre-requisites is that the foreign license holder "..must hold a professional pilot licence issued by an ICAO contracting state in accordance with ICAO Annex 1." This Annex contains malaysia.
Also it was stated that "For holders of ATPL(A) issued by DCA Malaysia, full credits may be granted for the Technical Group of papers and the ATPL Navigation Group of papers, provided the holder has passed the relevant papers by DCA Malaysia...". Which means I don't have to re-sit the ATPL exams if I were to hold a license from say a school in malaysia that is DCA compliant.
However "...The holder of a foreign pilot licence of an ICAO contracting State applying for conversion should complete Parts I to VI of Form CAAS(FO)01 and submit a copy of his licence and relevant documents as required in Paragraph 8 to the recruitment officer of prospective employer (“air operator”) for screening. The air operator’s recruitment officer is required to
assess the licence and documents for their validity and completeness, and if found satisfactory, he should complete Part VII of Form CAAS(FO)01. Part VIII of Form CAAS(FO)01 requires the Chief Pilot of the air operator fleet or Head of Training to recommend a suitable training programme for the foreign pilot for CAAS’ approval."
The above requires the foreign license holder to apply to CAAS for conversion, through the air operator's recruitment officer and the Chief Pilot. Which means that the foreign license holder's employment must have already been secured with his employers even before application. So besides satisfying all the pre-requisites in the CAAS document, it all boils down to whether the air operator "recognises" the school where I graduated from.
What I need to know is (besides SIA which "recognises" schools like OAT, Massey and MFA), what schools does other air operators like SYFC or whatever operators based in singapore recognise? Are there any cargo air operators based in Singapore?
I'm Singaporean and have nearly zero chance with SIA. I'm assuming the worst case scenario that SFC (full subsidiary of SIA) rejects me for the instructor course, leaving me with not many choices left in Singapore. Of course many singaporeans fly in malaysia. I'm finding options that you may have heard of.
I'm finding as I get older and when reality sets in (yes parent need to eat), I'm getting a little more worried about spending $80k on a license (not including opportunity costs of annual income) and not getting a job.
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Cruisercruiser,
I heard there are currently 3 Singaporeans in HM Aerospace Langkawi, whom, last i heard were doing their type rating and would eventually end up instructing there. Hope that helps.
I heard there are currently 3 Singaporeans in HM Aerospace Langkawi, whom, last i heard were doing their type rating and would eventually end up instructing there. Hope that helps.
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Hello again folks,
Seems that my posting wasn't eye catching enuf.....again may I ask if anyone here (self sponsored CPL holders) have taken the SIN ATP lately? If you could share the experience or help or materials or anything...wud appreciate it very much.
Seems that my posting wasn't eye catching enuf.....again may I ask if anyone here (self sponsored CPL holders) have taken the SIN ATP lately? If you could share the experience or help or materials or anything...wud appreciate it very much.
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last i heard were doing their type rating and would eventually end up instructing there.
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For everyone's info, I have heard my instructors telling me abt 40-50 plus S'poreans working as FIs in Johor. Don't know about other parts of M'sia. Maybe KL has more.
Haven't heard of any private cadet flying for airlines yet....but it could soon happen with AirAsia. But don't take it for granted that once u pass ur ATPL, ur in. They also select private cadets based on your performance and ranking.
Haven't heard of any private cadet flying for airlines yet....but it could soon happen with AirAsia. But don't take it for granted that once u pass ur ATPL, ur in. They also select private cadets based on your performance and ranking.
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HenC,
40-50 S'porean FIs in Johor? I think that a bit exagerrating... As far as I know, there are only 3 GA flying schools in Johor state, all located in Senai, namely Elite, Fras and Johor Flying Club (JFC). Elite being the biggest in term of fleet with 5 planes only has around 3 full time FIs, with another 2-3 part timers, most if not all are Singaporeans. Fras and JFC have around 2-3 FIs each, only some are Singaporeans as well... There are ultra-lights and trikes activities in Nusa Jaya, near the second link, but they only have a handfull of FIs as well..
40-50 S'porean FIs in Johor? I think that a bit exagerrating... As far as I know, there are only 3 GA flying schools in Johor state, all located in Senai, namely Elite, Fras and Johor Flying Club (JFC). Elite being the biggest in term of fleet with 5 planes only has around 3 full time FIs, with another 2-3 part timers, most if not all are Singaporeans. Fras and JFC have around 2-3 FIs each, only some are Singaporeans as well... There are ultra-lights and trikes activities in Nusa Jaya, near the second link, but they only have a handfull of FIs as well..
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MPL?
Read in the latest Flight International: "Six student pilots from two Chinese carriers are on course to be the first in the world to graduate from training with multi-crew pilot licences..."
Although not exactly the same, haven't SIA been doing this for its cadet scheme for ages?
What are the implications on locally self-sponsored guys? An easier route to the airlines?
Although not exactly the same, haven't SIA been doing this for its cadet scheme for ages?
What are the implications on locally self-sponsored guys? An easier route to the airlines?
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It's the MPL, Multi-crew pilots license. Australia's CASA is currently trialling it with 6 candidates in Brisbane. I wonder if it's the same 6 candidates you're refering to in Fight International?
As for whether it's an easier route to the airlines for non-cadets, don't really know but alot of simulator time is required which would be costly to anyone doing it privately.
As for whether it's an easier route to the airlines for non-cadets, don't really know but alot of simulator time is required which would be costly to anyone doing it privately.
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Do you guys think there's hope to be employed in India or China with 200hours? Or do they also require 1000hours and above to be eligible? I see some Indian carriers having trainee pilot programs, but is that only catered to their own nationals?
Malaysia does have instructing and Transmile seems to have a bad reputation.
Malaysia does have instructing and Transmile seems to have a bad reputation.
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ATPL Self Study Group?
Hi,
Any probable self-sponsoring wannabe care to join me in a library to self study UKCAA ATPL materials? I thought it's a good way to prepare for the course and at the same time meet like-minded people.
How about sunday afternoons woodlands library. Give me a PM if you are interested in the study group.
Hope to see you!
Cheers
cruiser
Any probable self-sponsoring wannabe care to join me in a library to self study UKCAA ATPL materials? I thought it's a good way to prepare for the course and at the same time meet like-minded people.
How about sunday afternoons woodlands library. Give me a PM if you are interested in the study group.
Hope to see you!
Cheers
cruiser
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i do have some study materials for the atpl papers (plus ten years series). however i do advise candidates to attend courses, it helps.
and i heard okay airlines of china do take fresh cadets with a training bond.
also regarding singapore's lcc/normal carrier, they do take in fresh cadets with/without type ratings.this i saw myself.
and i heard okay airlines of china do take fresh cadets with a training bond.
also regarding singapore's lcc/normal carrier, they do take in fresh cadets with/without type ratings.this i saw myself.
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Actually I'm just looking for study companions. Used to study in groups. Think it'll make my life easier when I take the actual course in future.
LCC taking in cadets?? Or are they taking in people who already have a license but without a type?
Cheers
LCC taking in cadets?? Or are they taking in people who already have a license but without a type?
Cheers