Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
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Firstly whats the difference between a CPL and a ATPL? And also the flight schools that u have reccommended me are both in Australia Jankodat which i suppose is also SIA's Training ground for their pilots? Thanks for yr advice but after my A levels i would be serving the army for about 2 years. After that i would be lets say 20-21 years old? And even if i applied for a university base on my education results i suppose there is no university that offers ATPL/CPL and a degree? Massy's Singapore branch?
However forking out AUD$60000 to go overseas to study is not expensive but i have heard that even if i were to complete my ATPL in Australia, it is not recognised by the singapore carrier i suppose? Only recognised by Qantas? Wouldn't that only add more worries to myself when i have to stay in australia and eventually be a PR over there which more airlines in other countries require that u have to be base there or be a PR there?
However forking out AUD$60000 to go overseas to study is not expensive but i have heard that even if i were to complete my ATPL in Australia, it is not recognised by the singapore carrier i suppose? Only recognised by Qantas? Wouldn't that only add more worries to myself when i have to stay in australia and eventually be a PR over there which more airlines in other countries require that u have to be base there or be a PR there?
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SIA Cadet Program
Successful candidates will spend 15 to 17 months on training to acquire an Airline Transport Pilot’s License (ATPL) with Instrument Rating (IR) at Pilot Training Schools in Singapore and overseas. Full board and lodging will be provided. Upon obtaining the flying license, you will undergo further training for 1 to 2 years to become a First Officer
Though u are bonded to SIA however, u are assured of the job once u enter the programm. This is however not the case in private Flight schools as there is a uncertainty hanging over which creeps in. A bank Loan of $60000 is alot of money plus interest
Successful candidates will spend 15 to 17 months on training to acquire an Airline Transport Pilot’s License (ATPL) with Instrument Rating (IR) at Pilot Training Schools in Singapore and overseas. Full board and lodging will be provided. Upon obtaining the flying license, you will undergo further training for 1 to 2 years to become a First Officer
Though u are bonded to SIA however, u are assured of the job once u enter the programm. This is however not the case in private Flight schools as there is a uncertainty hanging over which creeps in. A bank Loan of $60000 is alot of money plus interest
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*sigh* I knew this would happen. The more info one volunteers, the more questions one gets. At the end of the day, you guys make your own decisions and do what you think is best for you.
Since I'm taking a break from my CPL studies, I'm prepared to chew the fat with you all abit more.
@dream747, see Air HongKong for the answer to your question. Yes, they would. They have a pilot base in Singapore too.
@Macarto, let me try to find a way to answer you diplomatically.
1. If you cannot afford to go overseas for University, then I suppose waiting until you're 26 yo to apply for SQ's cadet program is a good option for you. What if you don't get it?
2. If you are able to afford going overseas for Uni (daddy is paying), why not do both a degree and CPL ME/IR at the same time in an aviation course like Embry-Riddle or WA Aviation College? There's other too. Go google it. This way, you will be living your dream a few years earlier than your Singaporean peers.
3. Again with the Singapore carriers! Do not be fixated. Are there Ang Mohs flying for SQ or not? Did they all go through SQ's cadet program? There are FAA, JAA, other ICAO licence holders flying for SQ, so how do they do it? There's provisions for licence conversions, my friend. Look up CAAS website for the info.
4. You are far off the mark on what I am trying to tell you. Since I don't know how I can make it any clearer and you are years away from taking the first step, you can take the 2 years in Army to figure it out. I'm not being facetious, really trying to say you have options. Hopefully, you'll be able to figure it out for yourself. If you surf the net and some of the great threads here in pprune, and see what pilots in other countries have to do to get into the airlines, you'll know what I mean. I wish someone had bothered to share what I have just done so with me just before I went to Uni.
5. Since you don't even know the difference between a CPL and ATPL, I would back off on the argumentative tone and be a little more humble. Its your prerogative to disagree, but at least acquire more knowledge first. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Since I'm taking a break from my CPL studies, I'm prepared to chew the fat with you all abit more.
@dream747, see Air HongKong for the answer to your question. Yes, they would. They have a pilot base in Singapore too.
@Macarto, let me try to find a way to answer you diplomatically.
1. If you cannot afford to go overseas for University, then I suppose waiting until you're 26 yo to apply for SQ's cadet program is a good option for you. What if you don't get it?
2. If you are able to afford going overseas for Uni (daddy is paying), why not do both a degree and CPL ME/IR at the same time in an aviation course like Embry-Riddle or WA Aviation College? There's other too. Go google it. This way, you will be living your dream a few years earlier than your Singaporean peers.
3. Again with the Singapore carriers! Do not be fixated. Are there Ang Mohs flying for SQ or not? Did they all go through SQ's cadet program? There are FAA, JAA, other ICAO licence holders flying for SQ, so how do they do it? There's provisions for licence conversions, my friend. Look up CAAS website for the info.
4. You are far off the mark on what I am trying to tell you. Since I don't know how I can make it any clearer and you are years away from taking the first step, you can take the 2 years in Army to figure it out. I'm not being facetious, really trying to say you have options. Hopefully, you'll be able to figure it out for yourself. If you surf the net and some of the great threads here in pprune, and see what pilots in other countries have to do to get into the airlines, you'll know what I mean. I wish someone had bothered to share what I have just done so with me just before I went to Uni.
5. Since you don't even know the difference between a CPL and ATPL, I would back off on the argumentative tone and be a little more humble. Its your prerogative to disagree, but at least acquire more knowledge first. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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sonic,
i think...
i just have to follow the following route then.
1) PPL (maybe, else i'll jump straight to option 2)
2) BAv with CPL/IR/fATPL
3) AFI
4) CFI (CFII perhaps?)
5) Build up hours and hours and hours.
6) Hit 500 hrs on fixed-wing, apply and apply and apply for airlines.
7) PAY BACK EDUCATION LOAN TO BANK. (hahaha)
by then, financially stable & get married... 45 years old mannnnnn. haha.
working as a CFI isnt that bad too, isnt it?
*winks*
i think...
i just have to follow the following route then.
1) PPL (maybe, else i'll jump straight to option 2)
2) BAv with CPL/IR/fATPL
3) AFI
4) CFI (CFII perhaps?)
5) Build up hours and hours and hours.
6) Hit 500 hrs on fixed-wing, apply and apply and apply for airlines.
7) PAY BACK EDUCATION LOAN TO BANK. (hahaha)
by then, financially stable & get married... 45 years old mannnnnn. haha.
working as a CFI isnt that bad too, isnt it?
*winks*
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You can also do your PPL in Malaysia first.
As an instructor, you can expect to have 80hrs per month in this part of the world. So, in 1 year you will clock at least 800hrs already. Usually, when the demand for pilots comes around, the instructors are poached by the airlines first because they have much flying experience under their belt already. That's why there's a bad shortage of instructors worldwide now.
As an instructor, you can expect to have 80hrs per month in this part of the world. So, in 1 year you will clock at least 800hrs already. Usually, when the demand for pilots comes around, the instructors are poached by the airlines first because they have much flying experience under their belt already. That's why there's a bad shortage of instructors worldwide now.
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Sonic thanks for being patient with my queries. You have indeed help open my eyes to the outside aviation world more than i had use to have earlier. Talking about PPL, CPL, ATPL, must it be attainted in order? PPL first than CPL? Besides lets say if i were to graduate and get a Bachelor Degree in aviation and a CPL, when i apply for SIA would it be again through the cadet program or just a normal job invterview and hope they accept me and i do not need to undergo their training again?
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Talking about PPL, CPL, ATPL, must it be attainted in order? PPL first than CPL?
Macarto, yes, it has to be in that order.
Besides lets say if i were to graduate and get a Bachelor Degree in aviation and a CPL, when i apply for SIA would it be again through the cadet program or just a normal job invterview and hope they accept me and i do not need to undergo their training again?
Great question. I have met a Canadian CPL ME/IR holder at Seletar currently going through the SQ cadet program doing the ATPL portion. If you don't already have your ATPL done with 1500hrs plus type rating, it would be almost a certainty that SQ will get you to go through their initial ATPL stage together with your batch. However, your flight training portion at Jandakot will be much shortened as you do not have to do the ab initio flying again.
Macarto, yes, it has to be in that order.
Besides lets say if i were to graduate and get a Bachelor Degree in aviation and a CPL, when i apply for SIA would it be again through the cadet program or just a normal job invterview and hope they accept me and i do not need to undergo their training again?
Great question. I have met a Canadian CPL ME/IR holder at Seletar currently going through the SQ cadet program doing the ATPL portion. If you don't already have your ATPL done with 1500hrs plus type rating, it would be almost a certainty that SQ will get you to go through their initial ATPL stage together with your batch. However, your flight training portion at Jandakot will be much shortened as you do not have to do the ab initio flying again.
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talking about type rating...
i read there're quite a number of flight schools in the US that offers type-rating courses to CPL/IR holders.
B737, B777, A340.
wonder if there's an A380 type-rating yet out in the market?
i read there're quite a number of flight schools in the US that offers type-rating courses to CPL/IR holders.
B737, B777, A340.
wonder if there's an A380 type-rating yet out in the market?
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Two Questions
If thats the case wont it be wise to only attend flight school only if i i am rejected by SIA with no initial experience? Since getting a CPL wont really give me an advantage in that sense? I can try for the cadet programm but if i fail than i will go overseas to get a CPL? doesn't that makes more sense and at the mean time i could save up money for that?
Moreover lets say if i were to attend Singapore flying college which is under SIA? Self-Sponsored, wont it be no different forom those cadets who also train at the SFC via the SIA cadet program. The only difference would be me having to pay for my CPL,ATPL with no assurance of a SIA pilot job in the future while the cadets under the SIA program in the same school would be train for free and will be bonded to SIA as pilots which i assume all of them would want to be? If this is true than self-sponsored CPL students would be at a loss wont they? Both training at JANDAKOT
If thats the case wont it be wise to only attend flight school only if i i am rejected by SIA with no initial experience? Since getting a CPL wont really give me an advantage in that sense? I can try for the cadet programm but if i fail than i will go overseas to get a CPL? doesn't that makes more sense and at the mean time i could save up money for that?
Moreover lets say if i were to attend Singapore flying college which is under SIA? Self-Sponsored, wont it be no different forom those cadets who also train at the SFC via the SIA cadet program. The only difference would be me having to pay for my CPL,ATPL with no assurance of a SIA pilot job in the future while the cadets under the SIA program in the same school would be train for free and will be bonded to SIA as pilots which i assume all of them would want to be? If this is true than self-sponsored CPL students would be at a loss wont they? Both training at JANDAKOT
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If thats the case wont it be wise to only attend flight school only if i i am rejected by SIA with no initial experience? Since getting a CPL wont really give me an advantage in that sense? I can try for the cadet programm but if i fail than i will go overseas to get a CPL? doesn't that makes more sense and at the mean time i could save up money for that?
If you are Spore citizen, yes, you can wait until you're 26 then apply and see if you get it. Go work at something else for 2-3 years after graduating Uni. Many SQ pilots did that.
SQ will be lucky to have you, since you are so totally focused on them. I really mean it. I don't mean to knock SQ but many of their pilots are not passionate about flying at all. After their initial 250 hours on GA, they never want to fly light aircraft again. I have met so many. To them, being a pilot is just a job. Tell me something, if you never make it to SQ, but you're a professional pilot getting paid to fly, would you be happy? Are you thinking that you only want to fly with SQ?
I'm just suggesting that if you're really into flying, why not start early and then go from C152 to C172, Seneca, King Air, Beech 1900, CRJ, A320/B737, A330, B747, A380, B787 ........ aaaahhhhhhh................. so many aircraft to fly, so little time.
Getting into SFC also depends on whether they want to accept you or not. It does not mean if you're willing to pay you sure to get in. Also, its damn expensive compared to other options. Something like S$140,000 (so, I heard. Don't quote me).
Anyways, how about a shout out from some Singaporean self-sponsored that are currently pilots in outfits other than SQ?! Lets hear your stories.
If you are Spore citizen, yes, you can wait until you're 26 then apply and see if you get it. Go work at something else for 2-3 years after graduating Uni. Many SQ pilots did that.
SQ will be lucky to have you, since you are so totally focused on them. I really mean it. I don't mean to knock SQ but many of their pilots are not passionate about flying at all. After their initial 250 hours on GA, they never want to fly light aircraft again. I have met so many. To them, being a pilot is just a job. Tell me something, if you never make it to SQ, but you're a professional pilot getting paid to fly, would you be happy? Are you thinking that you only want to fly with SQ?
I'm just suggesting that if you're really into flying, why not start early and then go from C152 to C172, Seneca, King Air, Beech 1900, CRJ, A320/B737, A330, B747, A380, B787 ........ aaaahhhhhhh................. so many aircraft to fly, so little time.
Getting into SFC also depends on whether they want to accept you or not. It does not mean if you're willing to pay you sure to get in. Also, its damn expensive compared to other options. Something like S$140,000 (so, I heard. Don't quote me).
Anyways, how about a shout out from some Singaporean self-sponsored that are currently pilots in outfits other than SQ?! Lets hear your stories.
Last edited by Sonic69; 17th Sep 2008 at 12:45.
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I would love to read others who are not too focused on SQ but rather...
who are self-sponsored CPL/IR/fATPL and is now flying for perhaps...
Air Asia?
or perhaps, some unknown airline in Indonesia?
*smile*
and btw. do brief us abt the salary a lil. *winks*
who are self-sponsored CPL/IR/fATPL and is now flying for perhaps...
Air Asia?
or perhaps, some unknown airline in Indonesia?
*smile*
and btw. do brief us abt the salary a lil. *winks*
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After their initial 250 hours on GA, they never want to fly light aircraft again. I have met so many. To them, being a pilot is just a job.
Sonic69, I've been lurking on these boards for ages, contemplating options for a mid-career switch to flying. Your sharing is most appreciated and I applaud your patience with some of the questions posted.
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sonic,
good stuff there. really opened up the eyes of newbies (as well as older birds like me)! few cents worth. all is not loss if SQ rejects... there are many other outfits in the market. patience and diligence are 2 key ingredients to get to the RHS isnt it?
case in point, in mid 30s now, ok paying job but still got that itch to switch career. never cut out for a shirt and tie office job. office politics are bs. more suited to make the skies as "my office"
holding a M'sia PPL currently. still evaluating my next options to see how i can get that elusive CPL/ME IR fATPL. some say you crazy bas..rd but hey man, if you want it, gonna do it, no point look see look see here and there. right?
good stuff there. really opened up the eyes of newbies (as well as older birds like me)! few cents worth. all is not loss if SQ rejects... there are many other outfits in the market. patience and diligence are 2 key ingredients to get to the RHS isnt it?
case in point, in mid 30s now, ok paying job but still got that itch to switch career. never cut out for a shirt and tie office job. office politics are bs. more suited to make the skies as "my office"
holding a M'sia PPL currently. still evaluating my next options to see how i can get that elusive CPL/ME IR fATPL. some say you crazy bas..rd but hey man, if you want it, gonna do it, no point look see look see here and there. right?
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I wouldn't beat them up over that. I am sure many of us find our job, flying or otherwise, start losing its gloss once reality sets in.
@CJK, true. Maybe sour grapes on my part.
@prodi9y, I salute you! You have the gumption to not just sit on your butt and dream, but have taken inspired action. I wish you all the best down under. Let's stay in touch.
@wannabe15, you are already on your way with the PPL. All you need to do now is build hours to about 200 and study for your CPL exams. PM me for resources if you need. Get Class 1 medical done. Only need about 1 month in total to convert to Oz PPL as well as finish up CPL exams and check ride (plain vanilla CPL Single Engine VFR). Up to you if you want to complete ME/IR at the same time. IR will take another 3-4 weeks.
@CJK, true. Maybe sour grapes on my part.
@prodi9y, I salute you! You have the gumption to not just sit on your butt and dream, but have taken inspired action. I wish you all the best down under. Let's stay in touch.
@wannabe15, you are already on your way with the PPL. All you need to do now is build hours to about 200 and study for your CPL exams. PM me for resources if you need. Get Class 1 medical done. Only need about 1 month in total to convert to Oz PPL as well as finish up CPL exams and check ride (plain vanilla CPL Single Engine VFR). Up to you if you want to complete ME/IR at the same time. IR will take another 3-4 weeks.
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True, Singapore Flying College is not oblige to accept students although they can afford it. But is it true SFC is also where SIA train their cadet pilots? By the way Sonic yr taking a break from yr CPL, so i assume yr currently working and saving up for yr ATPL? Self-sponsored?
Did u try out for the SQ cadet program?
Well i have to agree with you, my Passion if flying and thus even if other airlines like Eithad or KLM have vacancies i would gladly apply. However there are conditions if i am not wrong. For instance Cathay Pacific requires u to be a PR in hong kong to work for them. Is this thus true that many expatriates working for CX are currently PR holders of Hong Kong?
And u have to be base at their hub for most of them which means migrating over?
Did u try out for the SQ cadet program?
Well i have to agree with you, my Passion if flying and thus even if other airlines like Eithad or KLM have vacancies i would gladly apply. However there are conditions if i am not wrong. For instance Cathay Pacific requires u to be a PR in hong kong to work for them. Is this thus true that many expatriates working for CX are currently PR holders of Hong Kong?
And u have to be base at their hub for most of them which means migrating over?
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I guess, if your dream or passion is to fly it does not even matter what you are flying. At least for me it doesn't, crop dusting is fine too as long as I am flying. That's passion !
And I salute those who don't just focus in getting a flying job here primarily with SQ. I mean SQ me, Singapore Airlines ain't the Only place where you can let your dreams soar.
And I salute those who don't just focus in getting a flying job here primarily with SQ. I mean SQ me, Singapore Airlines ain't the Only place where you can let your dreams soar.
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@macarto, I am working fulltime, and studying for the CPL papers 'at night'. I fly to Perth when I need to take the cyber exams. Yes, I am paying for my own flying training. I plan to get my ATPL exams done by March next year.
Yes, there are SS students at SFC. Yes, it is SQ's training facility.
You don't need to be PR, too many ways that you can work for foreign outfits. Please look at www.pilotjobsnetwork.com and www.pilotcareercentre.com for more info. Also, look at www.parcaviation.aero to see what airlines are looking for.
@hermie, u a pro pilot? Any story to share?
Yes, there are SS students at SFC. Yes, it is SQ's training facility.
You don't need to be PR, too many ways that you can work for foreign outfits. Please look at www.pilotjobsnetwork.com and www.pilotcareercentre.com for more info. Also, look at www.parcaviation.aero to see what airlines are looking for.
@hermie, u a pro pilot? Any story to share?
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True, SFC is where SQ trains their cadets. Self-sponsored students will get a CAAS CPL + ATP papers BUT CAAS requires anyone wishing to hold SG CPL/ATPL to have employment with a 9V carrier. So how can self-sponsored SFC students hold their license w/o a job at SQ, MI, TR or 3K?
Macarto, Etihad, KLM, Cathay etc. are A-list airlines up there with SQ. Except Etihad, I don't know of any major airline that offers cadet training for foreign citizens. To apply to these as expats, DEC or DEFO, you would need >5000TT and 1000 on type to have any chance. Cathay only requires HK PR for its cadet program, expats need not. Cathay also has overseas bases for their expats so not all live in HK. Now how are you going to get that initial 5000hrs(or 3000hrs for jetstar, airasia etc) and the hours on type(meaning hours flying 737NG/A320 etc)? So what people do is they instruct until ~1500hrs to defrost their ATPL and apply to regional airlines flying turboprops. By 2500-3000hrs they upgrade within the airline or jump to another to fly regional jets like CRJs. By 3500-4000hrs they apply to LCCs like tiger which offers (self)sponsored type ratings. Only after that do they apply to the A-list.
PPL-CPL-ATP is the normal route though you can take your ATP papers after getting PPL, which is what SQ does with its cadets. They get their PPL and ATP papers done here at WSSL before going down under. FYI, ATPL=CPL+ATP theory papers+1500TT
Someone is wrong saying that SYFC only accepts JC/Poly students. I personally know NUS students training there, they accept JC/Poly AND Uni students so you can definitely apply in uni. Being more matured and having done NS is probably a bonus for your application. SYFC is also losing instructors, two have left for MI and TR in recent years and another RSAF CPT on loan to SYFC will ROD soon and join SQ. I'd say SYFC is a good place to start off commercial flying in Singapore.
Macarto, Etihad, KLM, Cathay etc. are A-list airlines up there with SQ. Except Etihad, I don't know of any major airline that offers cadet training for foreign citizens. To apply to these as expats, DEC or DEFO, you would need >5000TT and 1000 on type to have any chance. Cathay only requires HK PR for its cadet program, expats need not. Cathay also has overseas bases for their expats so not all live in HK. Now how are you going to get that initial 5000hrs(or 3000hrs for jetstar, airasia etc) and the hours on type(meaning hours flying 737NG/A320 etc)? So what people do is they instruct until ~1500hrs to defrost their ATPL and apply to regional airlines flying turboprops. By 2500-3000hrs they upgrade within the airline or jump to another to fly regional jets like CRJs. By 3500-4000hrs they apply to LCCs like tiger which offers (self)sponsored type ratings. Only after that do they apply to the A-list.
PPL-CPL-ATP is the normal route though you can take your ATP papers after getting PPL, which is what SQ does with its cadets. They get their PPL and ATP papers done here at WSSL before going down under. FYI, ATPL=CPL+ATP theory papers+1500TT
Someone is wrong saying that SYFC only accepts JC/Poly students. I personally know NUS students training there, they accept JC/Poly AND Uni students so you can definitely apply in uni. Being more matured and having done NS is probably a bonus for your application. SYFC is also losing instructors, two have left for MI and TR in recent years and another RSAF CPT on loan to SYFC will ROD soon and join SQ. I'd say SYFC is a good place to start off commercial flying in Singapore.