PAL Pilot Exodus

[Pascual7E7]

I think I might know you??? i think we work or have worked with each other

[jester_icarus]

Funny

its funny but im a US pilot working for a cargo company that pays well.. im also a citizen of the phils.. but for some reason i want to migrate and work for PAL or CP.. someone knock some sense into me..

[airlinefan]

Jet man

Why not come back to BuPac or PAL. US is not all it is cracked up to be and you can still get a san mig for 25 pesos - ok lang - also no place like PPS, Boracay, Bohol etc......................................................

[jester_icarus]

Im trying...!!!

Im trying...!!!! im Trying...!!!!!!! desperately....

[kapalmuks]

Johnny Kalbo extended indefinitely: hahaha the joke's on you

Johnny Kalbo extended indefinitely accdg to the latest news. Looks like he really got good grades from high above for kicking your butts off. Ambitious mgt pilots below Kalbo eyeing his position are also demoralized!!!
BG & Koyang very vocal complaining; of course only when they are drunk (when sober they are drunk with ambition).
Looks like sunny days are getting farther & farther with the extension of Kalbo & his nasty dirty work pilot butt kickin' policies. Actually a yes man to Makati thru & thru as he clings to his position like a linta coz he has good for nothing adult kids to support in the US (like Julie).
And that is after PAL has exited the receivership program; Kalbo is being credited for keeping the guns of legitimate pilots' compensations & benefits concerns muzzled.
Gentlemen, mechanics & support staff in Clark's Diosdado Macapagal Airport get paid more than group 2 pilots & closer to group 1 pilots!!!
So Kalbo is extended indefinitely: the joke's on you PAL pilots (what are you waiting for?).

[planestupid]

Horizons expand?

Kapal,
sounds like you are a bitter old striker... suprisingly I totally agree with you!! I thank God daily that I don't work for that A... hole anymore. Funny thing is, is that he works for a even bigger A... hole!! Maybe the world is just full of A... holes?
Good luck with trying to convice PAL pilots to leave PAL! Its what they know and are comfortable with. Expanding their horizons is just too hard for PAL pilots.. I have posted many job on prune trying to encourage people to find better, more rewarding jobs (financial and proffesional) and nothing comes of it. So now I don't bother.....I just enjoy my job, enjoy my family and enjoy my $15,000 a month!

PP

P.S If anyone is interested in expanding one's horizon... PM me and I'll point you in the right direction.

[kapalmuks]

Bitter no longer, old: yes

KUmusta planestupid,
me bitter? not longer. old? yes.
i am very happy with my situation now in another venue.
like you i have discovered that there is a better life outside of PAL. so i just want to share the fruits of my labor with all our kabaro specially those still with PAL.
looking back & comparing my life before & now, i want to tell you that the situation in PAL has been stuck in the middle ages. i mean the way they treat their employees like patay gutom & that the boss is never wrong...wrong!!
Nowadays specially with the pilot shortage worldwide, airlines are more concerned on learning & studying how to keep their pilots working for them. With PAL they don't have to go the extra mile & do this with intimidation: like threaten pilots who want to leave with law suits, dirty tsismis & other dirty scheme.
so i wonder whether guys in PAL will like to forever work as cheap labor: that is up to them to answer.
as for me i can seat back relax & enjoy my flying at long last.

[kurimaw]

bansai........



can i ask if this kind of silent killer attacked again??

killer A/THR???

although we dont know yet what really happen....

theorically...i suspected the A/THR of the airbus


was the A-320 will be W/O???



any conclusion for that???


thanks and happy flying

[jetcruiser]

High and fast

The Butuan overshooting is obviously another case of High and fast approach. Auto thrust has nothing to do, or not at fault in this incident. As Im sure its down the bottom of that green circle showing IDLE.

Flying this New generation airplanes is an exact science. Numbers we see inside the FCOMS and QRH were all been tested and certified, meaning if the Number says i.e. 1200meters to stop with LOW brake setting or even without(MANUAL BRAKING), thats exactly what it needs, so if an airplane such as the 320 lands beyond the required number, not an extra effort of braking will cause that Aircraft to stop on the paved runway.
Its a pity that such incident caused by wrong judgement happens to one of the Senior and very experienced Pilot of PAL.

Did you already forget the TACLOBAN overshooting, wasnt it just this early 2007? When will we learn?

[airlinefan]

Fast and High Approach

Guys it is so simple with this electronic bird - every flight profile recorded and 90% of the reds are high and fast - simple but depending on the airport and wx - so when in doubt go around go around go around.... Please no one needs to get hurt. And lastly - its not the equipment

[kurimaw]

During Approach

sirs.....


although i dont have any experience yet in flying a aircraft...
either small aircraft or heavy jets....

but playing on flight simulator...


but i can understand what you've talked about....

my idea on airbus and boeing....during approach...

when the GPWS callout MINIMUMS......


it means that you're reach already 200FT and your DECISION HEIGHT

either to continue your final approach going to touch-down

or

declare a missed approach and perform a GO-AROUND.


and during touchdown...50..40..30...20...10...RETARD...RETARD...RET


Retard means,

Idle the engine..(airbus has only this kind of GPWS callout)
then stowed the reverser and deployed it full......

i've seen on youtube that other pilots do a TOUCH and GO procedure....
part of their training in some airlines....

during landing....engines retard then....perform the take-off procedure again.....


braking system.....theres a switch to choose whether RTO, light, meduim,high,max.....

and can be disarmed by pressing the brake pedal(rudder)
Max breaking is not advisable during landing...



fast approach...? my idea why some pilot do a fast approach....


because of WINDSHEAR... to prevent the aircraft from stalling.


or......


Pilot exceed their time hours of work.....
(airline regulations)


sirs...i have a FCOM(AOM) of Airbus and Boeing...

although theres a lot of info about the system..
but i cant related to some other info because im not yet pilot...
so i based only on what i've read theoritaclly....



hope that my idea will help me as a future pilot.....


and correct me sirs if there some mistakes on my explainations...


thanks and happy flying

[airbrake23]

PAL A-320 Overshoot NewsVideo

http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/rel...assengers-safe

http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/rel...usan-del-Norte

[pack1]

kurimaw,

you have the right attitude, keep on reading and asking, it will serve you well when you become a pilot.

but please, don't feed our egos, let's do away with the sobrang sirs. we can do away with too much egos in this profession

[jetcruiser]

spot on

I think training department should re-assess or re-invent their ways of teaching pilots. They should concentrate in developing means and ways for Pilots to identify the threats and errors that surrounds them, instead of concentrating on how to fail Pilots.

This incident was Physically done by the Pilots, but Training department must be questioned too and has lots of things to answer than the pilots, because for me they are more liable for this committed mistakes than those guys who drove that aircraft to the ground.

Two same incident within a Year, operating same type of A/C. Two different set of Pilots,BUT with same set of thinking when it comes to handling an Unstabilized approach. The Pilots may have been doing the final approach differently, but one thing is for sure.. they both have extra speed
for them to exit at the end of the runway.

So, for the training departmentof PAL. what do you think is lacking? what is the missing link? If you dont put yourselves into work, you'll be counting one incident after the other.

[BigPimpin]

What is up with these PAL birds running off runways? Maybe it's time to pimp up your scarebuses with tailhooks and have all of your airports lay down arresting cables.

[stork]

http://www.philskies.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10717&start=20

A GOOD READ FROM ANOTHER FORUM...

"This goes beyond the lack of common sense on an individual crew member's part, though I am sure it will be shown there was a remarkable absence of that in this incident.

We can afford to just roll our eyes over lack of common sense when we are dealing with jeepney or taxi drivers. Nobody spends millions of pesos to train jeepney or taxi drivers in multimillion dollar simulators. Jeepney and taxi drivers do not sit through hours of CRM (Car Resource Management) classes. Jeepney and taxi drivers are not asked to gather thousands of hours of driving experience before being allowed to take the wheel of a public utility vehicle. Jeepney and taxi drivers are certainly not paid over a hundred thousand pesos a month to do their thing. And jeepney and taxi drivers certainly cannot wreak as much potential damage and carnage as an erring flight crew.

The flying public expects a highly-trained flight deck crew, with thousands of hours of flight experience each, to at least recognize a dangerous situation developing and act correctly.

Let's go to the Tacloban incident for the moment. Tonet has written about the space-shuttle approach profile. But beyond the terrible airmanship displayed by the pilot there was a severe breakdown of CRM (Crew Resource Management).

Granting that one crew member was acting irrationally, that he had shorted between the ears. Or he was smug and overconfident of his ability to pull the landing off. Or he was just having a bad day.

Yet there was another crew member onboard who must have--should have--recognized that his colleague's actions were placing the aircraft and its passengers in jeopardy. That same crewmember should have acted to prevent the inevitable conclusion.

Yet it seemed the other crew member sat back passively and allowed things to unravel. It did not seem he was empowered to act. He was so cowed by his captain's seniority and the prospect of being "endorsed" he chose to reduce himself to spectator status instead.

("Endorsed" is a PAL term for being given hell and treated like pariah by other pilots upon the say-so of another pilot. They actually have a term for it!)

What is inexcusable on the part of the airline is if the Butuan accident turns out to be a carbon copy of the Tacloban overshoot incident only seven months prior.

In Tacloban, injuries were minor and the airplane flew again (after a few million dollars' worth of repairs). No harm done, not even to the owner's substantial pockets. Did this make the airline think that everything was hunky-dory and that the Tacloban overshoot was an unlucky, but isolated incident?

Every incident or accident, no matter how insubstantial the damage or injuries, should be occasion for soul-searching on the part of airline management. Questions should have been raised as to why the crew forced the landing despite all parameters for a safe approach and landing laid down in black-and-white in their BOMs not being met. Then measures should've been taken to prevent a repeat.

This was clearly not done.

Even if it will be shown that there was a breakdown in CRM, and even if the airline acknowledges the fact, they will never address the root cause of the problem if they do not acknowledge it to be a failure of corporate culture, a corporate culture that institutionalizes practices like being "endorsed" and "wait 'til".

No amount of sitting through CRM classes at PLC, or holding hands and singing "Kumbaya" will ever make the flight deck more conducive to exercising proper CRM unless the entire company, from management to the senior pilots on down to the most junior flight deck crewmembers, pays more than just lip service to the concept.

If a first officer succeeds in calling the attention of his captain to an impending altitude bust or a developing CFIT, that is just one step to successful CRM.

If that captain subsequently "endorses" that first officer, and the first officer is given a hard time over contradicting his captain, then the concept of CRM en toto has failed. In tolerating a system of punishing assertiveness on the flight deck, the very heart of CRM, the company has failed the flying public.

In the 90's, Korean Airlines and China Airlines both suffered a string of fatal crashes. Each crash was attributed to a breakdown in CRM rooted in the peculiar Asian concept of "losing face". First officers were afraid to contradict their captains because the latter might lose face. Well, they all literally did that in the ensuing crash.

The difference between those KE and CI crashes and the Tacloban PR incident is not that there were fatalities, but that the first two airlines actually acted on them. Expat pilots (who do not "lose face" easily) were brought in and CRM initiatives were instituted. It took several hundred charred bodies, but they acted on them.

No charred bodies here, but should we be waiting for them?"

[mach.86]

crm, no matter how noble its aims are, is still in its budding stage as far as PAL is concerned. 'old school' pilots still loom, denying the importance of crm in their flights. the company's best bet is that new breed of pilots (those who aren't scared to assert and be "endorsed" as a consequence) abound soon, before something far worse happens (knock on wood).

[semper fi]

Crmmmmmmmmmmmm

Crew resource management means making use of all of the resources available to you, it's basic stuff, your resources are your inputs, your limits, your crew input, your use of all of these things. If at one point you begin to throw things out you think you can't use only to find out that item could have prevented the error chain from breaking.

Simply put, listen, assimilate, have the foresight to admit it is a two pilot airplane not a one man show. Those days are long gone.

Peace.

[pack1]

it's simply very hard for crm to take root in the company. just look at how many of the most senior management pilots are running the show. you can tell an organization by it's leaders.

it's very obvious that the first officers in the tacloban and butuan flights worried more about being "polite" to their captains than the safety of the flight.

think about the fear being instilled by head of a320 training more than sound procedures for the trainees. what happens when a first officer on training faces all these from the beginning? how do you expect the young pilot to behave in the line? speak out? "don't challenge/please the seniors" is instilled, above all. after all, the most senior guys have always said "attitude is what matters."

[kurimaw]

CRM, FCOM, SIRS, etc..

crew resource management....


to develop a good relation between CAPT & FO...
to share knowledge and experiences....

also...to learn and develop how to perform during S.O.P, good judgement and decision making....without any pressure(mean tension) between CAPT and FO...


in tenerife disaster.....due to bombing...poor weather and poor communication between ATC and no CRM at all


A FO wants to correct the mistakes of his captain....
but of course....the CAPT was the cheif pilot and given his license and dont accept any reasons specially to the jr. pilot..so the senior is always correct....? right?? because their are experienced and veteran....and very insulting if someone will do that thing.....so the FO and FLGHT ENG...keep silence....


result-----DISASTER



SIR...courtesy of respect.


but sometimes...can lead to a fatal because not all the times the seniors are always correct.....

instead...they always insisted that they are correct.....
if some mistakes happend....the FO will suffer for that....


FCOM......


Does Pilot Read this kind of manual frequently...???
or train the emergency procedure in flight simulator every year...??
using their FCOM...?



If our country equipped with CAT II/III system.....

this kind of disaster will be prevented...


and the pilots did heard the GPWS callout-----GLIDESLOPE...GLIDESLOPE??



thanks and happy flying.....