PAL Pilot Exodus
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By all means Tacloban is a long runway...but it isn't when you land at more than half the runway (ATC's account of where the aircraft touched down).
Pilots broke off a VOR approach to do a visual at pilots discretion. That's fine and dandy, but do so in order to make a NORMAL approach and landing. Can't make it? Simple GO-AROUND!!! Another case of "machoism".
Am sure that they are a bunch of nice guys...but they made a mistake...administratively, they should face the consequences.
PAL didn't even use the emergency chutes!!! At $10,000 a chute, they would prefer to ROLL the pax stairs to a door that resembles the height of the stairs, and evac through that door. How pathetic!
Just my two cents.
Pilots broke off a VOR approach to do a visual at pilots discretion. That's fine and dandy, but do so in order to make a NORMAL approach and landing. Can't make it? Simple GO-AROUND!!! Another case of "machoism".
Am sure that they are a bunch of nice guys...but they made a mistake...administratively, they should face the consequences.
PAL didn't even use the emergency chutes!!! At $10,000 a chute, they would prefer to ROLL the pax stairs to a door that resembles the height of the stairs, and evac through that door. How pathetic!
Just my two cents.
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"Machoism", yes, that would be an appropriate word. Good or bad guy, still good airmanship was obviously lacking here. Pride can sometimes cloud our best judgment, which most often than not, leads a person to commit mistakes. 
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High and Fast
If they were coming in high and fast, that means they have not stablized the aircraft on the approach.
I agree, it would have made the aircraft fly past the touchdown point and could have used half the runway length before the aircraft settling down. One would think however that they should have checked the airspeed (Vref + 10 or 15) and try to target that on short final, if not, do a GO AROUND.
This is just an assumption not a judgement of what might have actually happened, but maybe the aircraft's landing gear have already touched the ground and due to the thermal plugs heating up, they decided to stop the aircraft thus the hard braking.
D6
I agree, it would have made the aircraft fly past the touchdown point and could have used half the runway length before the aircraft settling down. One would think however that they should have checked the airspeed (Vref + 10 or 15) and try to target that on short final, if not, do a GO AROUND.
This is just an assumption not a judgement of what might have actually happened, but maybe the aircraft's landing gear have already touched the ground and due to the thermal plugs heating up, they decided to stop the aircraft thus the hard braking.
D6
Last edited by DeltaSix; 23rd Feb 2007 at 09:34.
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Remember guys that the minimum stabilization height for a visual approach is 500' AGL. If you find yourself in a tight situation below 500, too high/too fast, then a simple GO-AROUND would be in order. Don't wait a few seconds far too long in making a decision, or you may not live long enough to regret what you've done. Remember that a GO-AROUND is part of the approach procedure, and it's a pity that some pilots still think that executing a go-around diminishes one's skills or reputation as a good pilot. Some guys just don't understand the meaning of good airmanship.
Lesson learned - without a need to elaborate further - never try to force landing the plane in unstable conditions, IMC or VMC.
Lesson learned - without a need to elaborate further - never try to force landing the plane in unstable conditions, IMC or VMC.
Last edited by expatula; 23rd Feb 2007 at 10:01.
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Go around
" A GO-AROUND is part of the approach procedure, and it's a pity that some pilots still think that executing a go-around diminishes one's skills or reputation as a good pilot."
Well, this comes back to this joke :
ATC: Flight 101, do one left orbit, 360 degrees for traffic separation.
Pilot: Sir, do you realize that doing one 360 degree turn will cost us $2,000 ?
ATC: Okay, Flight 101, give me $4,000 worth
D6
Well, this comes back to this joke :
ATC: Flight 101, do one left orbit, 360 degrees for traffic separation.
Pilot: Sir, do you realize that doing one 360 degree turn will cost us $2,000 ?
ATC: Okay, Flight 101, give me $4,000 worth
D6
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tacloban 320
tacloban eversince is a tricky runway esp.on an early morning flts. with a heavy downpour the nite before,runway retains water,cuz drainage on that runway sucks///but no matter what, we have a corresponding action when doubts comes up "GO AROUND,FLAPS!,+ climb,GEARS UP AND SO ON....." So as they say it happens to the best guys we know in aviation, lets just hope they will be able to convince/ beg for the pardon of those "RED BARONS" in flt.operations that it was a mistake that they won't do it again in the future,(kung meron pang future) hope this similar misfortune will not be duplicated in any international flts. 
godspeed.....
godspeed.....
Last edited by teeepee; 28th Feb 2007 at 07:26.
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Apparently there wasn't any damage to the aircraft if they were able to ferry it out of Tacloban, so punishment will probably come as a slap on the wrist...but the crew will definitely learn from this experience. Godspeed to them.
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Alive and Kicking
Good for the guys to come out of it alive and well, though I'm pretty sure they will get some kicking from the top honchos.
A lesson learned the hard way, and it's a shameful experience but let's hope the guys get their arses back in the air in the future... 
Good luck and fly safe always, dudes!
A lesson learned the hard way, and it's a shameful experience but let's hope the guys get their arses back in the air in the future... Good luck and fly safe always, dudes!
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To Err Is Human
BUT TO LEARN FROM IT MAKES ONE PERSON A BETTER PILOT.... AND ULTIMATELY A SAFER CAPTAIN
GLAD TO KNOW YOU LADS HANDLING THIS WELL, MY KIND WOULD JUST NOT ZIP THEIR YAPS SPECULATING (CASTIGATING PERHAPS)
FLY SAFE NOW
GLAD TO KNOW YOU LADS HANDLING THIS WELL, MY KIND WOULD JUST NOT ZIP THEIR YAPS SPECULATING (CASTIGATING PERHAPS)
FLY SAFE NOW
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To Err is human
To make error is just being Human....definitely right.
BUT, everything in flying( especially Approach to Landing) is a matter of complying in the stabilization criterias set by Our own companies.
It is sad that such cases still happens with all the automation and current SOPs available practiced in this field of Profession... and yes, such occurs even to the best( or Best is just a word we are so fond of using, kahit di naman best..?.) For me, Age doesnt count as basis for being good....Age only has a greater number of experienced errors and in remembering it makes one a safer pilot.
If in doubt, Go around.
BUT, everything in flying( especially Approach to Landing) is a matter of complying in the stabilization criterias set by Our own companies.
It is sad that such cases still happens with all the automation and current SOPs available practiced in this field of Profession... and yes, such occurs even to the best( or Best is just a word we are so fond of using, kahit di naman best..?.) For me, Age doesnt count as basis for being good....Age only has a greater number of experienced errors and in remembering it makes one a safer pilot.
If in doubt, Go around.
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To Err is Human...
But to be alive is better...
The reason why we have our proficiency check/recurrent training every six months is basically to prepare us for any eventuality such as what happened to our colleagues in Tacloban. That's why we have the sim, to use it as a tool for learning in order to avoid committing stupid mistakes in the real world. We spend a gruelling 4 hrs/session inside the box handling all sorts of abnormalities, doing countless go arounds, etc. so that we may end up BETTER and SAFER PILOTS.
I am not here to castigate anyone. Nobody wants anybody to get hurt. And neither do I want to sound so judgmental nor condemnatory about the mistakes of others as I cannot claim to be perfect myself.
We are all aviators (real damn good ones!) and for most of our lives we spend hours for countless days and nights in a piece of machinery that is floating in mid-air without really knowing what's gonna happen next. Almost everyday of our lives we venture into the realm of uncertainties, each time always wishing to be back in the comfort of our homes and in the company of our loved ones. But we don't go up there leaving even the smallest rooms of mistakes to chance and doubting our abilities and skills to handle situations. We have in our shoulders the heavy burden of keeping hundreds of bodies intact whose souls have been entrusted to us. And so as pilots, we must always strive to be on the top of our game.
The only message that I am trying to get across here is - follow your SOPs and if it so happens that the situation requires you to apply what you've been taught and what you've learned - then DO IT! Like I said, never wait a few seconds far too long before making a decision, or you may not live long enough to regret what you've done.
Wishing you all a safe flight and good landings!
But to be alive is better...
The reason why we have our proficiency check/recurrent training every six months is basically to prepare us for any eventuality such as what happened to our colleagues in Tacloban. That's why we have the sim, to use it as a tool for learning in order to avoid committing stupid mistakes in the real world. We spend a gruelling 4 hrs/session inside the box handling all sorts of abnormalities, doing countless go arounds, etc. so that we may end up BETTER and SAFER PILOTS.
I am not here to castigate anyone. Nobody wants anybody to get hurt. And neither do I want to sound so judgmental nor condemnatory about the mistakes of others as I cannot claim to be perfect myself.
We are all aviators (real damn good ones!) and for most of our lives we spend hours for countless days and nights in a piece of machinery that is floating in mid-air without really knowing what's gonna happen next. Almost everyday of our lives we venture into the realm of uncertainties, each time always wishing to be back in the comfort of our homes and in the company of our loved ones. But we don't go up there leaving even the smallest rooms of mistakes to chance and doubting our abilities and skills to handle situations. We have in our shoulders the heavy burden of keeping hundreds of bodies intact whose souls have been entrusted to us. And so as pilots, we must always strive to be on the top of our game.
The only message that I am trying to get across here is - follow your SOPs and if it so happens that the situation requires you to apply what you've been taught and what you've learned - then DO IT! Like I said, never wait a few seconds far too long before making a decision, or you may not live long enough to regret what you've done.
Wishing you all a safe flight and good landings!
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Point taken Expatula. I think we all agree that good training and recurrency should be able to prevent most of these accidents and incidents happening. But there is one thing that might compromise the safety of the aircraft and nullify all these preparation - the pilot's attitude.
No matter how much training and preparation a person has done, if someone's attitude like being complacent and being cavalier - "devil may care" attitude prevails in the cockpit, then this is a big problem. Departing late all the time for example is just the tip of the iceberg.
Then we pass the law of probability that something like this would happen, like the A320 that overshot the runway in Bacolod in March 98 plowing into several houses killing people on the ground in the process.
Apparently, the auto thrust system malfunctioned and the crew not being able to retard one engine prevented the spoilers deploying and engaging reverse thrust.
Or a crew not being able to detect a problem with the pressurization or not being able to provide a "band-aid" solution to that problem when the outflow valve has malfunctioned.
If these are not included in the company's training program what then can they do ?......
Just my two cents worth. I'll go get my coat now.....
D6
No matter how much training and preparation a person has done, if someone's attitude like being complacent and being cavalier - "devil may care" attitude prevails in the cockpit, then this is a big problem. Departing late all the time for example is just the tip of the iceberg.
Then we pass the law of probability that something like this would happen, like the A320 that overshot the runway in Bacolod in March 98 plowing into several houses killing people on the ground in the process.
Apparently, the auto thrust system malfunctioned and the crew not being able to retard one engine prevented the spoilers deploying and engaging reverse thrust.
Or a crew not being able to detect a problem with the pressurization or not being able to provide a "band-aid" solution to that problem when the outflow valve has malfunctioned.
If these are not included in the company's training program what then can they do ?......
Just my two cents worth. I'll go get my coat now.....
D6
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Nice point, Deltasix. I already seconded skybound0210 about the attitude thing. I also reiterated about good airmanship, adherence to SOPs and applying every skills and knowledge that we have learned when the situation warrants it. I have also mentioned about being on the top of our game all the time.
So eto na lang ang di ko nasasabi - kung talagang malas, ano pa nga ba ang magagawa?
I rest my case.
So eto na lang ang di ko nasasabi - kung talagang malas, ano pa nga ba ang magagawa?
I rest my case.
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We decide what we chooce and we chooce the one we decide.
If the Aircraft was able to escape the situation, it is because All the factors you can think of are still within the Normal operating envelope( not being LUCKY).
And clearly, when they stepped over the Norms, they're on their own. And wham
....out of the runway. ( not badluck )
Misjudgement perhaps.
If the Aircraft was able to escape the situation, it is because All the factors you can think of are still within the Normal operating envelope( not being LUCKY).
And clearly, when they stepped over the Norms, they're on their own. And wham
....out of the runway. ( not badluck )Misjudgement perhaps.
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Jetcruiser.... welcome back.
I was not referring to the 320 in Tacloban when I said badluck, I was just digressing to another incident ( Bacolod ) when I said that.
D6
I was not referring to the 320 in Tacloban when I said badluck, I was just digressing to another incident ( Bacolod ) when I said that.
D6
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slap om their hands
damn right a slap on their hands,the PIC goes back as SIC and the TRNG. PIC goes back to S/O again, he he he thats how it is in "stalag gate one"///but rey canlas being the brother of rolly the chief pilot of b737 and a close confidant of andrews he will probably be ask write down the go around procedures a thousand times or when he gets tired just print it,and for the other guy back to the heavy's as S/O UFN..... am serious abangan ang mga susunod na kabanata he he he
am serious abangan ang mga susunod na kabanata he he he