AirAsia Runs Off RWY Yet Again
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MAStake & tada cum kuat
Then I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not part of the putrid system that sponsors this, however me thinks you doth speak with tongue in cheek - I hope not. Malaysia is a wonderful place, and contrary to those that think that "some" expats may use it as a stepping stone, there are many others who haven't and would have stayed, married or unmarried, becaue they enjoyed living there. How many of you (yes, you, but not you specifically) have residency or property and the raft of benefits that come with living in a First World Country. This hasn't been extend unilaterally to others that come to your country. Let me count the expats that have...uh oh...no, I don't know of any. But I know a few of you (again not you specifically), who have citizenship (shhhhh!), residency, or rights to residency in those "other" countries! A bit lop sided or hypocrtical don't you think! (Oxymoronism interpetation applies here).
Dr. M, even called those Malays who did this as traitors, if I remember rightly and specically aimed his remarks at members of his own government. Inspiring natiionalism, isn't it. Need I say more!
On that note, there have been more nationals take advantage of the training and equipment upgrade over time, then P155ed over seas. Yes, you, (and again I labor the point, not you specifically)and many of you have. These numbers far outway the numbers of the so called expats that have "used" your system, when it is you guys (again....heaven forsake me for repeating it), that have exploited your own national rescource than anyone else. Lay the blame at colonisation, that doesn't change the fact that you (again...) could do better, and haven't. You use this as a cop out for your own malpractices, and you perpetuate the system that is truely Malaysian, not just truely Asian.
Happy flying !
Dr. M, even called those Malays who did this as traitors, if I remember rightly and specically aimed his remarks at members of his own government. Inspiring natiionalism, isn't it. Need I say more!
On that note, there have been more nationals take advantage of the training and equipment upgrade over time, then P155ed over seas. Yes, you, (and again I labor the point, not you specifically)and many of you have. These numbers far outway the numbers of the so called expats that have "used" your system, when it is you guys (again....heaven forsake me for repeating it), that have exploited your own national rescource than anyone else. Lay the blame at colonisation, that doesn't change the fact that you (again...) could do better, and haven't. You use this as a cop out for your own malpractices, and you perpetuate the system that is truely Malaysian, not just truely Asian.
Happy flying !
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expat
Just wonder if you guys are so "skillful" , why don't you guys fly for the airlines in your home country?
Don't tell me that you like malaysia so much, like to pass on skills and train the locals, blah blah blah, please.
nothing personal, just a thought.
Don't tell me that you like malaysia so much, like to pass on skills and train the locals, blah blah blah, please.
nothing personal, just a thought.
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Well it seems that most of the locals have missed the point in this thread.
The original constructive criticism was based on the lack of local skills, and aimed at ex RMAF captains. I added my opinion views as I have personally experienced the lack of willingness in this country for locals to learn or upskill.
Just because you passed your initial licence, does not mean you're a God for ever
So why not drop the attitude so we can all get along and prosper in this very difficult profession.
As far as coming to Malaysia as expats to build our hours, well it may apply to some but not many as generally we have a lot more more experience than the locals. We are here because we love your country, and as ISO pointed out, some locals are very happy to have PR in our countries and respect within our Aviation industry.
As far as locals having endured colonial rules in the past, well most countries did including now developped countries. It does not mean they show a blatant arrogant attitude to bettering their knowledge.
May be I was a little too direct in my previous postings, but it is only frustration stages that will get an individual to sometime react adversely. So please, let's drop the personal jerk knee reactions and get along to improve the local standards.
The original constructive criticism was based on the lack of local skills, and aimed at ex RMAF captains. I added my opinion views as I have personally experienced the lack of willingness in this country for locals to learn or upskill.
Just because you passed your initial licence, does not mean you're a God for ever
So why not drop the attitude so we can all get along and prosper in this very difficult profession.As far as coming to Malaysia as expats to build our hours, well it may apply to some but not many as generally we have a lot more more experience than the locals. We are here because we love your country, and as ISO pointed out, some locals are very happy to have PR in our countries and respect within our Aviation industry.
As far as locals having endured colonial rules in the past, well most countries did including now developped countries. It does not mean they show a blatant arrogant attitude to bettering their knowledge.
May be I was a little too direct in my previous postings, but it is only frustration stages that will get an individual to sometime react adversely. So please, let's drop the personal jerk knee reactions and get along to improve the local standards.
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Quote:
"As far as coming to Malaysia as expats to build our hours, well it may apply to some but not many as generally we have a lot more more experience than the locals. We are here because we love your country....."
Don't you love your own country?
Come on, you (yes, you, but not you specifically) are here because you are not able to get into your country's airline. anybody previously flying for your own airline and decided to go to malaysia because you love the country and want to pass on skill to the local ( i am not talking about those who were retrenched), please raise your hand?
In a way i agree that you guys have more flying experience, ya, bush flying, crop dusting, instructing on the cessna.......
don't get me wrong, nothing personal.
it is just interesting to see a bunch of "professional pilot" trying to show the superiority. Why categorised "local" , "ex-RMAF". People make mistake because they are human. Don't tell me the experience pilots from "first world countries" never made mistakes and caused accidents?
talking about constructive criticism, is it constructive to keep bitching in this forum, you think that the management or the government will listen to you? and is this the way you try to pass on skills to the locals. If you don't like the system, get your rating, get your hours and off you go. no point keep bitching, it won't change a single thing.
again, don't get me wrong, nothing personal.
i don't work in Malaysia, but i love my counry.
Cheers guys.
"As far as coming to Malaysia as expats to build our hours, well it may apply to some but not many as generally we have a lot more more experience than the locals. We are here because we love your country....."
Don't you love your own country?
Come on, you (yes, you, but not you specifically) are here because you are not able to get into your country's airline. anybody previously flying for your own airline and decided to go to malaysia because you love the country and want to pass on skill to the local ( i am not talking about those who were retrenched), please raise your hand?
In a way i agree that you guys have more flying experience, ya, bush flying, crop dusting, instructing on the cessna.......
don't get me wrong, nothing personal.
it is just interesting to see a bunch of "professional pilot" trying to show the superiority. Why categorised "local" , "ex-RMAF". People make mistake because they are human. Don't tell me the experience pilots from "first world countries" never made mistakes and caused accidents?
talking about constructive criticism, is it constructive to keep bitching in this forum, you think that the management or the government will listen to you? and is this the way you try to pass on skills to the locals. If you don't like the system, get your rating, get your hours and off you go. no point keep bitching, it won't change a single thing.
again, don't get me wrong, nothing personal.
i don't work in Malaysia, but i love my counry.
Cheers guys.
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ck6793
Interesting reply....who is bitching using your own words? it is a rumours network where anyone can say what they think! I also find it interesting you're registered in OZ, my home which I do love by the way. So it seems you're happy to fly in my own turf and get the experience aren't you?
It seems you all think I fly planks nothing could be further from the truth...eh but keep the bohong coming, it's very entertaining
Oh yeah nothing personal Lah..
Interesting reply....who is bitching using your own words? it is a rumours network where anyone can say what they think! I also find it interesting you're registered in OZ, my home which I do love by the way. So it seems you're happy to fly in my own turf and get the experience aren't you?
It seems you all think I fly planks
nothing could be further from the truth...eh but keep the bohong coming, it's very entertaining Oh yeah nothing personal Lah..
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OOps must have pushed yer buttons, Iso
I guess I must have pushed you a bit Iso. Well, my message wasn't specifically aimed at you nor all the expats in Malaysia, rather it was a general comment for all expats around the world.
The locals, where possible, would definitely try to defend their turf, right or wrong for the sake of national interest far outweigh your personal interest....whether you get a job, or happy or miserable you are. ( Stop that you thing, its pushing my buttons!! very annnoying indeed)
I delved a bit into Malaysian history just to try to make you understand a bit of where the feeling of protectiveness and slight resentment to those whom have raped and pillaged the country for so long whilst leaving the country relatively poor and behind in their education, economy, quest for excellence and uptake of higher skill. They are getting there but it will not happen overnight.
I am not defending the !d!ots running M@S either because I too have gone thru the system or lack thereof but at the same time understood the local beat.
Take South Africa for example; such a gorgeous country but sadly has become very dangerous and inefficient. The drums beat a different beat there and you may get very very frustrated with a lot of things but hey,,,that's how it is. The poorly educated black, suppressed for hundreds of years are struggling to run the country whilst the rich minority still hold influnce and power over everything else. Now the minority are blaming them for all the violence and anarchy that are happening there. A bit sad really.
You either go with the flow or if you dont like it, go somewhere else. I didn't and I went.
I did not like it there at M@S either, so I have gone somewhere else. But, unfortunately, unlike western pilots with superior first world passports and ATPLs, I cannot even be considered for employment at any EU, Australian, or US airlines, but yet it works fine the other way round. Do you see any Malaysian, be it chinese, malay, indian, bumis or others being employed by these airlines?? Hardly.
Geographically, Europe is Asia. As far as I am able to see on the map and through flying experiences as well, the land masses are all connected, but yet from Turkey, all the way to Japan, everyone else is bladi Asians,,,,and yes they all look the same, right?? NOT. So , what i gather here is that, if you are of the fairer color and practices the "right" denomination, you'll be right, right? This is pure B.S.
Again the points here are not specifically aimed at you Iso, rather they are aimed even at myself, being an expat in a foreign country. I know that when the time comes, when the local pilots number goes up, I too will be kicked out or pushed aside. When the water is over the damned, then I'll make my next move.
Maybe it is healthy that you are venting your anger and frustrations here, but a far more effective way is to seek help.
Meanwhile Capt Wooby, I think you are doing a fine job in enlightening the locals especially and hurting M@S where it hurts, right in the back boner. Somehow, I do not foresee an attitude change in the near future as the company is mired with local politics and misplaced pride and prejudice. Malay Boleh??? Boleh what? Maybe they can so so run the show, but will never excel or be in pink of health long.
The government will always put $$$ in no matter what, so in terms of being a profitable true "business airlines", M@S does not qualify. Neither does Emmyrates nor SingAir. We shall always have to look up to CX or QF for that matter.
The locals, where possible, would definitely try to defend their turf, right or wrong for the sake of national interest far outweigh your personal interest....whether you get a job, or happy or miserable you are. ( Stop that you thing, its pushing my buttons!! very annnoying indeed)
I delved a bit into Malaysian history just to try to make you understand a bit of where the feeling of protectiveness and slight resentment to those whom have raped and pillaged the country for so long whilst leaving the country relatively poor and behind in their education, economy, quest for excellence and uptake of higher skill. They are getting there but it will not happen overnight.
I am not defending the !d!ots running M@S either because I too have gone thru the system or lack thereof but at the same time understood the local beat.
Take South Africa for example; such a gorgeous country but sadly has become very dangerous and inefficient. The drums beat a different beat there and you may get very very frustrated with a lot of things but hey,,,that's how it is. The poorly educated black, suppressed for hundreds of years are struggling to run the country whilst the rich minority still hold influnce and power over everything else. Now the minority are blaming them for all the violence and anarchy that are happening there. A bit sad really.
You either go with the flow or if you dont like it, go somewhere else. I didn't and I went.
I did not like it there at M@S either, so I have gone somewhere else. But, unfortunately, unlike western pilots with superior first world passports and ATPLs, I cannot even be considered for employment at any EU, Australian, or US airlines, but yet it works fine the other way round. Do you see any Malaysian, be it chinese, malay, indian, bumis or others being employed by these airlines?? Hardly.
Geographically, Europe is Asia. As far as I am able to see on the map and through flying experiences as well, the land masses are all connected, but yet from Turkey, all the way to Japan, everyone else is bladi Asians,,,,and yes they all look the same, right?? NOT. So , what i gather here is that, if you are of the fairer color and practices the "right" denomination, you'll be right, right? This is pure B.S.
Again the points here are not specifically aimed at you Iso, rather they are aimed even at myself, being an expat in a foreign country. I know that when the time comes, when the local pilots number goes up, I too will be kicked out or pushed aside. When the water is over the damned, then I'll make my next move.
Maybe it is healthy that you are venting your anger and frustrations here, but a far more effective way is to seek help.
Meanwhile Capt Wooby, I think you are doing a fine job in enlightening the locals especially and hurting M@S where it hurts, right in the back boner. Somehow, I do not foresee an attitude change in the near future as the company is mired with local politics and misplaced pride and prejudice. Malay Boleh??? Boleh what? Maybe they can so so run the show, but will never excel or be in pink of health long.
The government will always put $$$ in no matter what, so in terms of being a profitable true "business airlines", M@S does not qualify. Neither does Emmyrates nor SingAir. We shall always have to look up to CX or QF for that matter.
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"The government will always put $$$ in no matter what, so in terms of being a profitable true "business airlines", M@S does not qualify. Neither does Emmyrates nor SingAir. We shall always have to look up to CX or QF for that matter"
So wrong ILCK, SIA is avery competative airline, run by the business end of Singapore and the remaining shareholders. As you know, LKY will happily dispose of anyone who tries to rort the system.
There is no reasonable comparison between MAS and SIA, that is very obvious.
Oh yes, "I Love to Cum Kuat", and just how deep is your knowledge as to how "colonials" once saved your arse? Your "delving into Malaysian History" must have been very selective.
You may wish to ask which soldiers and from which army got LKY out of a very hot spot in Malaya so many years ago, something not brought to the surface very often and possibly you would prefer to forget all about it? Should you choose to do a bit of research might I suggest you have a good look at the history of the Tunkul Abdul Rhaman. It wasn't so black and white then either. And let us all leave that silly word "Racist" out of this discussion, please.
So wrong ILCK, SIA is avery competative airline, run by the business end of Singapore and the remaining shareholders. As you know, LKY will happily dispose of anyone who tries to rort the system.
There is no reasonable comparison between MAS and SIA, that is very obvious.
Oh yes, "I Love to Cum Kuat", and just how deep is your knowledge as to how "colonials" once saved your arse? Your "delving into Malaysian History" must have been very selective.
You may wish to ask which soldiers and from which army got LKY out of a very hot spot in Malaya so many years ago, something not brought to the surface very often and possibly you would prefer to forget all about it? Should you choose to do a bit of research might I suggest you have a good look at the history of the Tunkul Abdul Rhaman. It wasn't so black and white then either. And let us all leave that silly word "Racist" out of this discussion, please.
Last edited by Omark44; 16th Dec 2004 at 10:29.
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Hai Yahhhh, wai you so like dat. Omark Sui Sui
And who in turn owns Temasek? And who was vehemently against the pilots in their dispute with management? Oh no, not the governtment of Sing Air....business end, of course.
Save our sorry @$$3$, just like u r saving the !raq!$ sorry @$$3$ after occupying the state and dividing the nation after WW1? Save the !nd!@n$ and their sorry @$$3$ after stealing their diamonds to be part of the crown jewels...and much more. Who are the savages here?
Basically, if we dont do what you want us to do, then we're lost and need saving. You a missionary???
Your view of saving us really need to be scrutinised. What is your agenda and ulterior motive?
Its people like you , whom are causing problems not only to yourselves but to expats in general. Cant you just lie low and enjoy the ride, after all, like it or not, expats are guests of the state.
You do not go into somebody home and start demanding things. If you dont like certain things, then have the courage to take it up to the right people/department or would you rather not do that, instead vent it out here because it's easy to hide in cyber space?
I have my grumbles too when being hounded in your country, simply because I was born here. What is that if not racism and you mildly put it? That is one example of many. But I take it in the chin, because there are many many other blessings in life to let silly things bring me down.
Save our sorry @$$3$, just like u r saving the !raq!$ sorry @$$3$ after occupying the state and dividing the nation after WW1? Save the !nd!@n$ and their sorry @$$3$ after stealing their diamonds to be part of the crown jewels...and much more. Who are the savages here?
Basically, if we dont do what you want us to do, then we're lost and need saving. You a missionary???
Your view of saving us really need to be scrutinised. What is your agenda and ulterior motive?
Its people like you , whom are causing problems not only to yourselves but to expats in general. Cant you just lie low and enjoy the ride, after all, like it or not, expats are guests of the state.
You do not go into somebody home and start demanding things. If you dont like certain things, then have the courage to take it up to the right people/department or would you rather not do that, instead vent it out here because it's easy to hide in cyber space?
I have my grumbles too when being hounded in your country, simply because I was born here. What is that if not racism and you mildly put it? That is one example of many. But I take it in the chin, because there are many many other blessings in life to let silly things bring me down.
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Gawd, if this isn't turning into a slanging match, I don't know what is, but I'm in, for the fun of it.
Kuat, degan Viagra saja! You could be a councellor in your spare time. Thanks, but I don't need your help, yet! I will keep you mind though. I already did my thing in Malaysia and left your ungrateful lot behind. Theres's no disputing your wonderful country, but there is a lot to dispute about your pathetic management and DCA. You guys make apartid look primitive compared to the levels of sophistication you (I wont labor the point) have brought it too. Admit it. Unless your chosen by name or connextion you ain't going no where. That means you Malays as well, not just expats, at least you don't discrimate completely....but you do bias.
Incidentially I did work for a subsiduary of my national airline, so no, contrary to what you think, I chose to go expatriate for a raft of other reasons that don't concern you. It's a typical come back of you (again>>>) to say that...how many times have I heard it, but that's about the best you can come up with, and you have no idea what my qualificatons are.
You wouldn't last in some first world operations based upon the protectionism and excessive training you guys receive (100 plus sectors anyone??), you would have washed out, so get off your high horse and accept some constructive criticism.
You don't seem to understand the theme of what people are saying to you here on this thread. I made my point, I left, because of your malpractices, denial and lies, It's quite simple. Your history recollection is selective and it may have been far better for the Japanese to have remained, or the communists. That was yoiur forefathers choice not yours, so don't bleet that the Brits left you a bad deal. Malaysia is one of the most progressive economies in SE Asia, and you have a reasonable rule of law, and like the blanks of SA you have the same opportunity to either raise or ruin your own country. It's a mindset thing. Live with it.
In the meantime, get your datoship, carry the right balls and your future is assured, you (again!!!!) are pretty good at that.
Mistakes are made by all, but some are covered up better than others, where it eventually becomes institionalized. How man accident/incident reports do you see on the public forum in regards to Malaysia...Tawau, for instance .....let me count them...mmm....none. Helicopter crashes like bubonic plague....mmm...let me see....no reports again....deary me, what a progressive, informed unbiased lot we are!
I progressed according to my skills and merits, not my name and connextions or the condasending atttude of an elite group. Isn't that right Dato? Tan Sri?
Kuat, degan Viagra saja! You could be a councellor in your spare time. Thanks, but I don't need your help, yet! I will keep you mind though. I already did my thing in Malaysia and left your ungrateful lot behind. Theres's no disputing your wonderful country, but there is a lot to dispute about your pathetic management and DCA. You guys make apartid look primitive compared to the levels of sophistication you (I wont labor the point) have brought it too. Admit it. Unless your chosen by name or connextion you ain't going no where. That means you Malays as well, not just expats, at least you don't discrimate completely....but you do bias.
Incidentially I did work for a subsiduary of my national airline, so no, contrary to what you think, I chose to go expatriate for a raft of other reasons that don't concern you. It's a typical come back of you (again>>>) to say that...how many times have I heard it, but that's about the best you can come up with, and you have no idea what my qualificatons are.
You wouldn't last in some first world operations based upon the protectionism and excessive training you guys receive (100 plus sectors anyone??), you would have washed out, so get off your high horse and accept some constructive criticism.
You don't seem to understand the theme of what people are saying to you here on this thread. I made my point, I left, because of your malpractices, denial and lies, It's quite simple. Your history recollection is selective and it may have been far better for the Japanese to have remained, or the communists. That was yoiur forefathers choice not yours, so don't bleet that the Brits left you a bad deal. Malaysia is one of the most progressive economies in SE Asia, and you have a reasonable rule of law, and like the blanks of SA you have the same opportunity to either raise or ruin your own country. It's a mindset thing. Live with it.
In the meantime, get your datoship, carry the right balls and your future is assured, you (again!!!!) are pretty good at that.
Mistakes are made by all, but some are covered up better than others, where it eventually becomes institionalized. How man accident/incident reports do you see on the public forum in regards to Malaysia...Tawau, for instance .....let me count them...mmm....none. Helicopter crashes like bubonic plague....mmm...let me see....no reports again....deary me, what a progressive, informed unbiased lot we are!
I progressed according to my skills and merits, not my name and connextions or the condasending atttude of an elite group. Isn't that right Dato? Tan Sri?
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Iso, could you please clarify? Are the locals "ungrateful" because your ambitions were thwarted, or because your dreams were unfulfilled, or because your expectations were unrealistic, or because they do not agree with you?
Are all local pilots required to sit down and take it when the bwana expounds?
You're living in the wrong century.
Are all local pilots required to sit down and take it when the bwana expounds?
You're living in the wrong century.
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WLM
sorry lah..., i don't work in your home country, i don't need to. unlike you, need to earn a living in my country. sad sad sad. btw i didn't expect my posts to attract so much attention that you need to check on my profile, relax mate.
Iso
i see, you only manage to work for a subsidiary of your national airline, whatver reason. You are right, i don't know what's your qualification, crop dusting? scenic flight? anyway, like you said, it's not my concern, afetr all you stil work for a subsidiary of your national airline. wah...so hard to type, a subsidiary of your national airline.
I am not against expat, you guys are here for reasons. the local airlines need you and you need the airlines for your ratings, hours and your pay cheque. Talk about ungrateful local, what have they done? not promoting you to the instructor rank or director of flight ops, or they didn't pay your salary?
Are you not ungrateful? got the jet rating, built the hours and off you go? Don't always think for you, try thinking from others point of view.
Also, If you are so skilful, do impart you your experience and knowledge to the locals, i am sure they will be happy of your presence.
There are a lot of things that you can't change.
Change things that you could.
But i know i ain't going to change your attitude and thinking for sure. Just my thought.
cheers guys.
sorry lah..., i don't work in your home country, i don't need to. unlike you, need to earn a living in my country. sad sad sad. btw i didn't expect my posts to attract so much attention that you need to check on my profile, relax mate.
Iso
i see, you only manage to work for a subsidiary of your national airline, whatver reason. You are right, i don't know what's your qualification, crop dusting? scenic flight? anyway, like you said, it's not my concern, afetr all you stil work for a subsidiary of your national airline. wah...so hard to type, a subsidiary of your national airline.
I am not against expat, you guys are here for reasons. the local airlines need you and you need the airlines for your ratings, hours and your pay cheque. Talk about ungrateful local, what have they done? not promoting you to the instructor rank or director of flight ops, or they didn't pay your salary?
Are you not ungrateful? got the jet rating, built the hours and off you go? Don't always think for you, try thinking from others point of view.
Also, If you are so skilful, do impart you your experience and knowledge to the locals, i am sure they will be happy of your presence.
There are a lot of things that you can't change.
Change things that you could.
But i know i ain't going to change your attitude and thinking for sure. Just my thought.
cheers guys.
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This is turning into one isnt it. We all may have missed each others points here.
Well, in short, I agree that there is a lot to desired for with regards to local politics, business, companies and departments..etc. Not denying that at all.
Biases occur in every society, including yours, but your myopic view based on your short and frustrated experience in Malaysia seems to overwhelm your observations for others, including your own.
You too have no idea of our quals. How would you know if or if not we would last in some first world ops, when your complete protectionism restricts us even to apply.
I have had some wonderful learning experiences from the ex-89ers whilst in MAL. While most were grateful that they were earning a living, with some getting commands and later moving to bigger and better airlines or even Virgin Blue, there were also some very bitter people. I am not sure whether they were bitter with their country, PM, Abeles or lawyers for kicking them out of their country, causing all sorts of problems for their family and career. I dont know much about it, so I better shut up.
My point here really is: The way of doing business is just different there in Malaysia in particular, "Asia" in general. One would have to adjust to the local way, or adapt. Problems arises when one wants to apply one's knowledge and efficiencies through this forum for the progressive sake of Malaysian society, it just will not happen.
It is akin to me whinging about the Americans driving on the "right" side of the road, when they should be driving on the "wrong" side of it?? It is how it is.
If you read my thread carefully, you would see that I do actually agree with your points regarding the inefficient, protectionism and blah blah ways of the locals and also that is one of the reasons why I left.
What I am trying to get at is, there is a far bigger picture in the minds of the locals than you..expats or local pilots. Without prejudice and as crude as it may sound, the reality is if you dont like the heat, stop complaining the kitchens too hot. Get out, take a cold shower.
Well, in short, I agree that there is a lot to desired for with regards to local politics, business, companies and departments..etc. Not denying that at all.
Biases occur in every society, including yours, but your myopic view based on your short and frustrated experience in Malaysia seems to overwhelm your observations for others, including your own.
You too have no idea of our quals. How would you know if or if not we would last in some first world ops, when your complete protectionism restricts us even to apply.
I have had some wonderful learning experiences from the ex-89ers whilst in MAL. While most were grateful that they were earning a living, with some getting commands and later moving to bigger and better airlines or even Virgin Blue, there were also some very bitter people. I am not sure whether they were bitter with their country, PM, Abeles or lawyers for kicking them out of their country, causing all sorts of problems for their family and career. I dont know much about it, so I better shut up.
My point here really is: The way of doing business is just different there in Malaysia in particular, "Asia" in general. One would have to adjust to the local way, or adapt. Problems arises when one wants to apply one's knowledge and efficiencies through this forum for the progressive sake of Malaysian society, it just will not happen.
It is akin to me whinging about the Americans driving on the "right" side of the road, when they should be driving on the "wrong" side of it?? It is how it is.
If you read my thread carefully, you would see that I do actually agree with your points regarding the inefficient, protectionism and blah blah ways of the locals and also that is one of the reasons why I left.
What I am trying to get at is, there is a far bigger picture in the minds of the locals than you..expats or local pilots. Without prejudice and as crude as it may sound, the reality is if you dont like the heat, stop complaining the kitchens too hot. Get out, take a cold shower.
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With the amount of cold showers required, we might get the dreaded Chicken Flu Lah
Seriously, we should all lighten up a bit. Common its a Rumours network where we have a lot of fun but also can gain some good pointers.
everybody made a few good statements despite the personal somehow knee jerking reactions
ISO we do get them going don't we
Seriously, we should all lighten up a bit. Common its a Rumours network where we have a lot of fun but also can gain some good pointers.
everybody made a few good statements despite the personal somehow knee jerking reactionsISO we do get them going don't we
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Wooblah,
In 20 mins? That is too long, I can make babies within that time frame !!! I suggest you do your homework before writing any adverse comment about RMAF. Reading Janes isn't good enough because the writer was never fly with any of the airforces to analyse their performance. Neither you !!! I dare not to comment about RMAF because I don't know how they were trained and carry out their duties. I only hope that I was one of them before !!!
Throughout my more than 2 decades flying experience, both in and outside this country, both in and outside 'this company', both with locals and expats, both with cadets and ex-RMAF, I don't find any problem with them, Yes, there are some bad apples but they are everywhere. I learned a lot from those RMAF guys before , now and in the future, and until now I still admire their skill, knowledge and experience, anytime better than those ex-cadets, given the same number of years of service in the company. May be you realise this but too ego to swallow your pride !!!!
Historically, MAS was setup with the help of RMAF personnel until MAS people are ready to take over the company. Even until today, Toady is still the SGM regardless of what we pilot community think of him. At least, he is the best man for the job as far as govt is concerned. Who is he and what was he before? Even Camel, maybe he is not from RMAF but he is an ex-boys wing, somehow, related to military as well. Pilots hate him, yes, but he was the boss before and who on earth can please everyone? May be you love Joseph or Conman very much because they are so "sweet" and "attractive"
The more you write about them, the more you expose yourself, reflecting how arrogant, baseless, clueless you are about your own airforce. It is better to keep quiet if you know nuts about them !!!
I wonder why you are soooo anti-RMAF, there are 2 reasons that I can think of,
Firstly, may be you wanted to be one of those topgun pilots, zoom and boom in the sky and do some real flying, unfortunately, you FAILED the strict initial selection process
(unlike MAS, "EVERYONE CAN JOIN" as long as you are connected to someone - and thats how you get your job before !!!)
OR
Secondly, may be due to your LOW AVERAGE performance (you won't admit this I know ....), you "FAILED" to match the skill, knowledge, experience, situational awareness and most of the flying aspects possessed by ex-RMAF pilots in the company .....
For whatever reason, if you need personal guidance or tutorial with RMAF guys, I can help because I have some friends.
Cheers and have a wonderful Xmas + New Year
by and large the RMAF standards are so useless that the Singapore Airforce as related by Janes would take out the Malaysian Airforce in about 20 minutes. The fighter pilots from the RMAF are the most useless overall.
Throughout my more than 2 decades flying experience, both in and outside this country, both in and outside 'this company', both with locals and expats, both with cadets and ex-RMAF, I don't find any problem with them, Yes, there are some bad apples but they are everywhere. I learned a lot from those RMAF guys before , now and in the future, and until now I still admire their skill, knowledge and experience, anytime better than those ex-cadets, given the same number of years of service in the company. May be you realise this but too ego to swallow your pride !!!!
Historically, MAS was setup with the help of RMAF personnel until MAS people are ready to take over the company. Even until today, Toady is still the SGM regardless of what we pilot community think of him. At least, he is the best man for the job as far as govt is concerned. Who is he and what was he before? Even Camel, maybe he is not from RMAF but he is an ex-boys wing, somehow, related to military as well. Pilots hate him, yes, but he was the boss before and who on earth can please everyone? May be you love Joseph or Conman very much because they are so "sweet" and "attractive"
The more you write about them, the more you expose yourself, reflecting how arrogant, baseless, clueless you are about your own airforce. It is better to keep quiet if you know nuts about them !!!
I wonder why you are soooo anti-RMAF, there are 2 reasons that I can think of,
Firstly, may be you wanted to be one of those topgun pilots, zoom and boom in the sky and do some real flying, unfortunately, you FAILED the strict initial selection process
(unlike MAS, "EVERYONE CAN JOIN" as long as you are connected to someone - and thats how you get your job before !!!)OR
Secondly, may be due to your LOW AVERAGE performance (you won't admit this I know ....), you "FAILED" to match the skill, knowledge, experience, situational awareness and most of the flying aspects possessed by ex-RMAF pilots in the company .....
For whatever reason, if you need personal guidance or tutorial with RMAF guys, I can help because I have some friends.
Cheers and have a wonderful Xmas + New Year
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to those who want to read this
I love Malaysia, I try to make as many friends as possible, I try to pass my knowledge to those who need it regardless of their Nationality and expecting nothing in return. You have to respect the local rules and locality of the people...you know the rest.
What do you expect of any country's DCA? To open the doors to Expats and not give a chance to the locals? and please don’t mention 'connections' for me because this is happening everywhere
Yes, the rules from DCA are getting tighter (it took me ages to renew my pass!) but trust me, there is always a way in this country and this is the good thing about it. I dare you post this in S'pore! Man, dont you remember what happened to the punch of Expats there when they turned up the volume against the management?
Do you Speak Malay?
Happy Landings
What do you expect of any country's DCA? To open the doors to Expats and not give a chance to the locals? and please don’t mention 'connections' for me because this is happening everywhere
Yes, the rules from DCA are getting tighter (it took me ages to renew my pass!) but trust me, there is always a way in this country and this is the good thing about it. I dare you post this in S'pore! Man, dont you remember what happened to the punch of Expats there when they turned up the volume against the management?
Do you Speak Malay?
Happy Landings
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100 sector training? here you can chew it up in 2 months...
You guys have it easy, here it's 6 months line flying to get your 2 bar... >100 sectors Different strokes for different folks for different countries...
In the meantime, get your datoship, carry the right balls and your future is assured, you (again!!!!) are pretty good at that.
Wasn't that theory thrown out with the Anwar case?
Wasn't MH set up with the help of Qantas? The first DFO was an Aussie (QF 707 Capt.). The RMAF only provided pilots when these guys retired.
Even the neighbours of Malaysia and Australia knows that !!
While they're not Gods and we're not useless minions, who said we never learn from the expats... as long as we don't treat them like Gods and we don't get treated like useless minions...
Either that or my big shot grand daddy kept flying to Malaysia for setting MH up in those days...
You guys have it easy, here it's 6 months line flying to get your 2 bar... >100 sectors
Different strokes for different folks for different countries...In the meantime, get your datoship, carry the right balls and your future is assured, you (again!!!!) are pretty good at that.
Wasn't that theory thrown out with the Anwar case?
Wasn't MH set up with the help of Qantas? The first DFO was an Aussie (QF 707 Capt.). The RMAF only provided pilots when these guys retired.
Even the neighbours of Malaysia and Australia knows that !!
While they're not Gods and we're not useless minions, who said we never learn from the expats... as long as we don't treat them like Gods and we don't get treated like useless minions...
Either that or my big shot grand daddy kept flying to Malaysia for setting MH up in those days...
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Smoke & mirrors
RMAF:- Personal experience, I flew with many of them, and of them, very few I would rate as acceptable, however there were some that were extremely talented. On that basis, it's not fair to rate them all in the same basket, but the fact is, and those of us that have flown with them, know they are different. Very different. Their record speaks for themselves, with crashes and ejections beyond a typically normal airforce, NOT at war.
It's this the quality selection, training and standards you are refering too? Which side of the bell curve were they were selecting from? Have these problems been translated to Air Asia? If they have, what impact are they having? How do you identify it, if it is a problem?
Someone alluded to the airforce issues at AirAsia. Perhaps this is ONE of the elements OF the problem. They are trained differently, CRM is interpreted differently (from a one one man cockpit point of view - it's hard to disagree with yourself!). Was this a factor? A Cultural issue - not race or religion, but organisational?
There are both defenders and detractors of those that dedicated to the protection of Malaysia.The fact is they are different. It something they should consider.
Now to the other issues. top dressing, more correctly, is not considered a subsiduary of the national airline, as funny as that may seem to you, but I thank you for the accallode, I am sure some of you would have struggled with the general handling skills required more some.
Protectionism from standards (biased), protection from substandard knowledge levels (biased - ATPL scam), protection from accountability and transparency, a malaysian truth (oxymoron) in action.
Simple guys, cover-up, hide, condemn, but never admit that you might be part of the problem. Did I take anything away from Malaysia, yeah sure, some excellent memories and a profound understanding that you can turn lying into a national sport. I left with what I came with, so don't hang that crap on me that I took off with your valuable ratings. That's a crook of, but your chosen ones have, and are doing well. I get to see some of them regularly. Nice to see that you haven't made comment about them, but I am sure you would because they got out of the hot kitchen as well.
Again to my good Malaysian friends, - happy flying.
WLM - Viva la Malaysia. Roti and Teh tarik again soon. Boleh?
It's this the quality selection, training and standards you are refering too? Which side of the bell curve were they were selecting from? Have these problems been translated to Air Asia? If they have, what impact are they having? How do you identify it, if it is a problem?
Someone alluded to the airforce issues at AirAsia. Perhaps this is ONE of the elements OF the problem. They are trained differently, CRM is interpreted differently (from a one one man cockpit point of view - it's hard to disagree with yourself!). Was this a factor? A Cultural issue - not race or religion, but organisational?
There are both defenders and detractors of those that dedicated to the protection of Malaysia.The fact is they are different. It something they should consider.
Now to the other issues. top dressing, more correctly, is not considered a subsiduary of the national airline, as funny as that may seem to you, but I thank you for the accallode, I am sure some of you would have struggled with the general handling skills required more some.
Protectionism from standards (biased), protection from substandard knowledge levels (biased - ATPL scam), protection from accountability and transparency, a malaysian truth (oxymoron) in action.
Simple guys, cover-up, hide, condemn, but never admit that you might be part of the problem. Did I take anything away from Malaysia, yeah sure, some excellent memories and a profound understanding that you can turn lying into a national sport. I left with what I came with, so don't hang that crap on me that I took off with your valuable ratings. That's a crook of, but your chosen ones have, and are doing well. I get to see some of them regularly. Nice to see that you haven't made comment about them, but I am sure you would because they got out of the hot kitchen as well.
Again to my good Malaysian friends, - happy flying.
WLM - Viva la Malaysia. Roti and Teh tarik again soon. Boleh?