Survey: Are you accepting their offer?

[MilPilot]

@MitrePeak

Never gonna happen - move on!

[MitrePeak]

That's what i figured !

[Springbok614]

Dissapointed!

Would anyone be so kind to inform me of the outlines of this new SO offer? I have been so hell bent on working for CX one day and being a long haul airline pilot. I am a low hour bizjet captain and currently earning double than what this offer seems to be with much lower cost of living.

I have been invited for an interview for the 12 week transition SO position i.e. higher total time program.

[FIRESYSOK]

Meh,
You applied knowing full well the details. Not impressive, and not surprising.

[brisdude]

I can completely agree. As one of the very lucky few whose family member is on the (soon to be nonexistant) A scale (STC for 25 years) I have to say go and look at what CX guys are saying to their kids. I was in a very fortunate position to have a beer with said family member and his friends who all joined pre 1990. What CX WAS and what it IS is a very different beast. From people I know within the belly - If their telling their own kids (who hear it from a lot of others) not to do it? Why do it?

CALLDEPATURES - I'm happy with my NT chief, we may have had a beer together...

[SloppyJoe]

And those who have kids determined to fly are applying to the cadet course as for someone with 0 hours it is not a bad way to get into the industry, yes it won't be the same career their dads had but is one of the better ways to start. It took me about 8 years on really bad pay most of the time to get into CX as a DESO. In 8 years these kids will have 2-3000 (not as SO but as an FO) hours whilst making more than I did and can get a descent FO job elsewhere if they wish. Also much easier on their dads wallets. Disgusted that CX are trying to get experienced guys on the cadet scheme but that is another issue.

[Calldepartures]

Brisdude

Chieftain is good flying, glad I didnt miss this step all together. Maybe we have had a beer although im spending most of time in the southern part of the continent.

Calldepartures

[tchanhk]

Quote" The outline is CX has now joined the race to the bottom in this industry. The only applicants they are getting are pimply faced wannabes with severe SJS. It will only get worse not better. "


Tbh kind of getting sick of you attacking half the cadet...pimply faced wannabes i sure you were the same when u were 18. Now you experience it, you can write all these stuff...everyone know how bad the scheme is...its their life if they want to take it let them...

u hve been goin on and on about the same point

[VFE]

It is totally understandable that you think that way tchanhk. I find it quite remarkable that grown men, who probably kow tow in the presence of senior management are jealously safeguarding their own backsides within a company under a viel of anonymity at the expense of impressionable youngsters keen to forge a career in commercial aviation.

I have sat by and watched the same names on this website systematically rubbish future careers by their repetative ramblings against this worldwide CEP scheme. Nowhere in the real world have I heard even a whisper of the apparent derision expressed by a very vocal minority of (allegedly) CX pilots here. Odd that. So that says either one of two things to me:

a) This forum is still the homepage of a number of very disgruntled DEP hold pool candiates who vetoed the new pay scale after getting their hopes up following their DEP interview process. Understandable grievances for sure, but life moves on lads!

b) Some "old salts" (as one PPRuNer dubbed them) are unhappy with the CX management, the current recruitment drive and the possiblility of diminishing T&C's for themselves. Understandable again I guess, but their incessant presence on any thread remotely connected to CX has all but rendered any argument they had completely farcical given the over egging. Baby thrown out with the bath water bigtime chaps.

So my advice for any young wannabe with no hours, who doesn't have the financial means to make a career in commercial aviation a possibility, is to apply for the CEP scheme and keep at it! Do not listen to the tired old voices on this website who, lets be clear, have serious ulterior motives in swaying you away from your goal in life! Selfish, self preservating, 'pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest' wimps lacking the courage of their convictions to get off their backsides and practice the behaviour they are preaching. Tragic.

Just remember: these guys smile to their bosses, take the cash and then complain like hell about it on an anonymous internet forum. You can learn a lot about the human condition from reading some of the stuff in this forum kids. It shows everything that is wrong with western capitalist thinking and proves the old adage that whether you have too much or not enough of it - money will always cause arguments.

Follow your dreams kids and do not become cynical before your time. Yes, the CEP scheme is NOT free but it's a damn sight cheaper and reliable than anything else going.

VFE.

[tchanhk]

stevop12

firstly i haven't even apply for the cadet scheme becoz i know its not for me, so i dont even know why are you trying to say im ignoring the advice...even though i can get by becoz i have family in hk. Work for CX so badly lol mate just completed my Msc and a ACCA. Im sure i got plenty of alternative than to beg for job for a company like CX (even though its tough atm).

Danbuster & chinabeach advice is actually one of the most useful poster on cx topic but danbuster keep banging on the same point...if they (wannabes) really want to listern they would of by now. Just read through the 140+ pages and you should get an idea of what cx management are like and the pros and cons of the package.

I mean what can you guys do, yes the management are all so what everywhere are the same. but u guys just moan moan moan leave the company if you think they are not treating you the right way or they are not paying you the right amount. (im talking about the current cx not cadet).

[hihi]

Careful, VFE, with that attitude you'll only be accused of being another CX management stooge

Dan Buster and China Beached are really starting to sound like broken records.
We understand that the contract isn't exactly stellar, and that the living conditions in Hong Kong aren't going to be the greatest. We know all about the 49'ers and we even understand that Cathay isn't exactly the most trustworthy airline in the neighborhood. And what? Who is? The entire industry is going to hell in a handcart anyway.

If you think for a second that i am going to sit on my hands and wait for conditions to improve, just so you can sleep a little better at night knowing your contract is supposedly safer, then you are sadly mistaken. Go on, call me names, tell me i am a sell out - it changes nothing. If anything, all it does is lower my opinion of you so called 'professionals'. For every cadet who turns down the offer, there will be another in line who is ready to jump at the chance. It is all well and good to encourage cadets to turn the offer down while you are comfortable on your b-scale contracts, but for many applicants you can guarantee the pay and conditions in Hong Kong are going to be an IMPROVEMENT over their status quo. If you cannot see that, then you are just as naive as the 'starry eyed cadets' you seek to discourage.

Any cadet worth their salt will do their own research to determine whether or not Cathay is a good option.

FWIW i've done time in GA. Thanks to the recession and the very limited number of flying opportunities in my country i now work in retail. Every single day is another day wasted, and another day spent wishing i was somewhere else. It is easy to be critical when you already have the job - but for those who don't, this is an excellent opportunity. Am i prepared to spend 4-6 years eating sandwiches and making the skippers bunk? Hell yes. It's got to be better than working as a salesman for minimum wage. Who expects to start at the top anyway?

[ChinaBeached]

tchanhk at least chooses to listen to all sides of a debate and not pathetically idolise the job but studies all the issues that go with it. People don't have to agree but an open mind to others with first hand experience of CX and international widebody ops one would think is worth listening to.

VFE:

I decided some time back that I had put enough cash into this career and refuse point blank now on the grounds of maintaining my sanity to pay out anymore to try and get a leg up.

So, it's OK for YOU to draw a line in the sand and refuse to lose money or "sell out" to further a career or credentials, eh? You draw your conclusions based on experience as an illustrious instructor. We do the same from first hand experience of CX and international widebody ops. If I wanted to be a VFR circuit chaser then I would heed your advice. You want to get into airline ops yet dismiss ours. Your call. Yet I bet you'd be critical of your student pilot showing up at the flying club not heeding the advice you or other instructors gave. You'd keep your eye on the likes of this unprofessional wannabe because he or she is the type that always seems to know better...... You'd complain about new instructors coming to your outfit doing it for far, FAR less and at a lower standard that severely undermines your job and renumeration, yet you do the exact same to the CX pilots and industry as whole anyway.

Guys like you will not read John Warhams "The 49ers - The True Story" because it may contain information that you have ignorantly decided does not fit the mold of needed information. Fella, you can memorise the 744 fuel system and policy all you want. Thats all it is: memory retention to pass an interview, nothing more, nothing less. John's book is a life lesson of CX and airline ops. Go to another thread (http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ook-49ers.html) but you wont like it because others with EXPERIENCE offer comment & input that doesn't fit your Shiny Jet Syndrome At Any Cost thought process.

VFE, you've made your decision & so be it. You believe that anonymity is the cheap safe guard behind such posts. Fascinating coming from a guy with 1649 (& counting) of such "anonymous" posts..... Again, if you would read John's book you would understand. Then again ignorance is bliss it seems.

Present day CX pilots' housing allowance agreement is up for renewal soon. You have to be naive in the extreme to not think the CPP contract isn't placing undue pressure on this! VFE, you rant about "everything that is wrong with capitalistic thinking" yet you haven't the backbone to practice what you preach, yet instead seek to contribute to it.

And if you think present CX pilots go to work smiling and back-slapping their bosses, then it really shows your complete and utter ignorance to what really goes on. Have a few beers with some of the guys and you'll realise that the s.o.b. management guys - lowest of the low are the management pilots screwing their fellow pilots - are ignored and by and large drink alone on overnights as the pariahs they are.

Your information comes from speculation, not FACT.

[VFE]

Chinabeached is NOT a pilot with Cathay Pacific Airways.

Just another disgruntled DEP who got kicked over the edge.

I do not hide behind anonymity, the guys who run this website know me personally so that kinda blows your argument sky high doesn't it? In fact, I was jumpseating with Rob Lloyd over ten years ago when you were probably just an itch in yer daddy's underpants for all I know.

Once again kids, be warned about people on here with ulterior motives! Out of the 2,500 or more current CX pilots, only a handful feel sufficiently passionate to post on PPRuNe ad nasueum regarding the potential pitfalls of this CPP! It has become a crusade for some and for me, that starts alarm bells ringing because no pilot I know would spend their time tapping away on here like a raving lunatic day in and day out unless they had serious self interests at heart, or, were not in fact who they say they are as evidenced by Chinabeached who likes to claim he knows a thing or two about Cathay Pacific. Hmmm!

Granted, for guys with professional licences and hours already clocked up, this scheme may not be worth the financial and personal sacrifices on top of those already made. But hey, we're all big boys now so can make those educated decisions ourselves through our own contacts outside of cyberspace and certainly without "help" from any tom dick or harry posting here.

I shall leave it there for now as I'm actually embarrassed to contributing to this thread now.

Regards,

VFE.

[ChinaBeached]

that starts alarm bells ringing because no pilot I know would spend their time tapping away on here like a raving lunatic day in and day out unless they had serious self interests at heart, or, were not in fact who they say they are as evidenced

1650 posts since year 2000, nearly 1 every 2 days. So who's "tapping away like a raving lunatic"?

I do not hide behind anonymity

So your birth certificate reads "VFE"? Or is that a username since you don't use your real name here? Don't worry, I'm typing slow for you to realise the idiocy of your statement.

so that kinda blows your argument sky high doesn't it?

No, because you post under an username creating an anonymous persona. Write on here your real name and see where that gets you? There's your challenge. Front up or shut up. So, no it doesn't blow any argument out of the sky, only reinforces it. Idiot.

So after my posts stating time after time what I've done and that I'm not at CX due personal choice & self worth, you decide to state the bleeding obvious! Genius. I'm not disgruntled, it was my choice. I researched all the facts and have a backbone that isn't for sale to the lowest bidder.

10 years ago.... I was an FO on regional turboprops and in 2 more years a Capt. Itch in my daddy's underpants? Well, if that were true then in my short time I've progressed far, far quicker than you! And I'm not a sell-out, as will your label be for the rest of your career.

But hey, we're all big boys now so can make those educated decisions ourselves through our own contacts outside of cyberspace and certainly without "help" from any tom dick or harry posting here.

And you still post / "tapping away like a raving lunatic" day in day out begging for information on 744 fuel systems & policy, CX fleet size, engine types, etc, etc. Grow a pair, get some factual knowledge (here's a hint to show my lack of knowledge, it's called "Janes All The World's Aircraft" - you won't need an anonymous username to access factual information!) Then again, the fingers that scratch your daddy's underwear are so used to computer mouse clicking on a "RUMOUR" web site that you haven't a clue how to find or research real facts.

Kid, I've more PIC hours on FAR 25/26 category aircraft than you've touch 'n goes in your typical VFR instructing days and nearly double the time on jets than you've posts on pprune. I know what I did in GA & domestic / regional flying to earn a CX interview back 3+ years ago. The likes of you are only considered because the likes of me & others turned it down. Enjoy the scraps because that's how you're viewed & that's how you are paid as a result.

Know nothing of CX? Those who have contacted me via PM's asking why I have my opinions will differ to your ignorant & spineless comments. Again, there's an entire book out, but it hasn't enough pictures or coming from a RUMOUR NETWORK, therefore beyond your needs, proficiency or character.

My alterior motives? None. See if sell-outs like you didn't take this pathetic deal (if offered) then people like me would be able to accept the same terms as we interviewed for. There would be no pressure on present CX pilots' terms and conditions to be lowered yet again and the likes of you would have to work and study hard, not only from internet rumour networks for information to meet a far, far higher standard. Airlines all over would see that being cheap isn't right and (experienced) pilots will not accept it.

Tart up your accusations about my credentials and your spineless needs to justify being a sell-out as much as you will. With the style of person you are; unable to appreciate another's point of view, seeking factual information from rumour networks in the stead of hard documented facts that can be cited when needed, and a VFR circuit jock I doubt whether CX passes you. And if they do, well they have gone so far aft of the drag curve that no amount of power can recover it's sorry state. But that's precisely what you need..... So it may be argued that you need the experienced guys to stay away and encourage zero or low hour guys to make you look better?

CX interviewer "Tell us about the 744 fuel system & policy".
VFE (an anonymous username) "Well I posted this exact same question pprune and they answered that it even has fuel in the horizontal stab......!"

To be a fly on that wall!!!

Hihi..... Sweet justice would be your present boss offering a kid your job on 60% less pay and you being unable to accept it. A broken record? Get used to it: SELL-OUT.

[hihi]

Actually, that'd be my boss doing me a favor. I hate my job.

[VFE]

Now now Chinabeached please don't go getting your skirt on over it, I was just yanking your chain and your emotional response has proved my point rather well:

Bitter ulterior motives kids!!

See it there for yourselves.

Tut tut old chap. Bad form.

VFE.

[ChinaBeached]

It's "alterior", not ulterior. First time I thought a typo, second time? Use spell check otherwise you come across illiterate.

Yes very poor form to stick to one's beliefs & not sell-out my colleagues & industry for selfish greed or the "GA is too hard / difficult" arguement.

VFE raises unsubstantiated arguments & makes ignorant accusations but when replied to can only respond with "tut-tut old chap". With your spelling & complete inability to defend hollow arguments & such ignorant accusations it would be best if you did as you said before: "embarrassed to contributing to this thread". Hell, embarrassment is the least of your concerns. Try grammar & spelling first, then progress to educated reasoning, debate & fact at a later date.

So if it's "bad form" to counter accusations & ignorance, as well as to not accept a job that places negative pressure on present & future CX (& airlines in general) pilot's terms & conditions, what is "good form"? Pathetic when we even have to ask these questions.

Hihi doesn't have an arguement, just the "it's too hard to get a GA job so I don't care if I'm a sell-out - screw you all" response. Nice. What a doyenne of moral fiber & integrity.

[VFE]

Crikey, someone take him home!

Priceless! Which dictionary are you reading then? The Urban one? lol

A yank attempting to correct an Englishman on spelling and getting it wrapped round his neck - brilliant! Irony probably not your strong point today then...

Thanks for the amusement today ChinaBeached. Encore, encore!!

VFE.

[tchanhk]

VFE

why dont you try to come up something more constructive to say rather than just to start an argument

is that all u do...no wonder u have excess of 1600+ post

Keep to the topic plz

[hihi]

Hell, embaressment is the least of your concerns. Try grammar & spelling first, then progress to educated reasoning, debate & fact at a later date.

Is 'embaressment' an 'alterior' form of spelling embarrassment? Well it just so happens that i have some advice for you!

You should try grammar & spelling first, then progress to educated reasoning, debate & fact at a later date.

Oooohhhh sweet irony!


As to whether or not i have an 'arguement' (presumably you meant argument?), yours seems to involve picking at other peoples spelling and grammar - in which case your argument fails in a blaze of incredible ironic fail.


Yeah, i am totally a sellout. I have my interview with Cathay coming up shortly. Don't worry, i'll spare you a thought whilst i munch on my sandwiches.