BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat

[Dogs_ears_up]

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer

BA CC may or may not have a good cause for complaint, but assuming public support would IMHO be a big mistake.

Couldn't agree more!!! The public view of Cabin Crew is always mixed - understandably the perception still remains that (to a degree) we are paid to lie around hotel pools. The perception of BA crew by crew of other airlines will not be exactly supportive either - too many are already doing (and have been for some time) the things that BA crew are complaining about

I'm sure it was terribly exciting jumping and screaming around a hotel conferemce room in front of the media, and in these intitial moment, you may feel full of confidence, vim & vinegar. The realities of a strike are rather more mundane and simultaneously vicious.

I'll give even money that Willie will fight, and that the media will crucify BASSA: Shortly, the public will turn against those crews involved - the strike will fail.

If I'm wrong, then I intend to return to this thread and apologise - I don't wish for BA crew to lose, I just think that they will.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by Dogs_ears_up

I don't wish for BA crew to lose, I just think that they will.

Unfortunately I think your right.

[Skipness One Echo]

Jolly good, I shall take my business elsewhere. As a punter, I am often amazed at the complete misunderstanding of the free market you guys live under.
I will take my business elsewhere as you've screwed me over with a tantrum once too often. Don't like the job? Get another one you like, there are plenty out there.

[Marvo]

My wife is CC for BA and voted "YES", I drive for a low-co. Her take home pay on LHR Euro fleet is only marginally above that of the cabin crew at my LOW-CO. I believe she works hard for her money and it shouldn't be the issue. I think she is rewarded for her efforts. What I believe to be the companies concern is the local and archaic agreements such as only being able to operate short or domestic sectors after you have flown in from say, Rome. Long haul cabin crew are paid an obscene amount for the service they provide if you take into account expenses, averaging 50K (in my honest opinion). I would be interested to know the difference in pay between Virgin and BA long haul .

Bassa would like staff at LGW to take part. However this union is also the union that refuses to recognise service at the regionals. So if you fly as CC 5 years down at LGW then transfer to LHR you start at the bottom again ! I would tell them to F***ING poke it!..

Tough times ahead in my household, maybe we should switch to tescos value brand now.

[M.Mouse]

jonty

Your post is full of empty clichés and is utter rubbish. Whenever BA tries to introduce change, and by change I mean get rid of some of the archaic working practises which act like an anchor around our necks, everybody jumps up and down and points the finger elsewhere.

Try giving practical examples of how BA management can instigate these changes without dinosaurs like BASSA and the TGWU threatening to drive more passengers away.

bermudatriangle

I may not like WW as an individual but he has my unqualified support if he can make BA fit to exist in the competitive 21st century environment.

BASSA has backed itself into a corner on the strength of a ballot on numerous indefensible issues. They will repent at their leisure.

The jubilation at the result of the ballot has probably successfully alienated 99% of the hard working individuals in the country who live in the real world.

[Beriltheperil]

[quote=apaddyinuk;3069969]
I think an 80% return of ballot papers with a 96.1% YES vote for strike sends out very VERY strong messages!!!! Only 330 voted no!


So 96% voted in favour of strike action of 80%. Most points on this forum relates to the fact that BA CC do have it good. How many of the 96.1% will turn up on the actual days of the strike, how many will develop an illness and stay away? Of the 96.1%, how many actually do want this strike to happen. And to echo what is it over?

Stikes are never the way forward. Don't take this out on us the public. How many holidays booked over Half Term will be disrupted again?

[Rainboe]

Dogs Ears- I think your take on it is spot on. The BA CC have voted to strike on a range of very peculiar issues (Sickness monitoring?). Their triumphant jubilation will change as the strike fails. The very people most adamant to go on strike, the well paid longhaulers, will dread being the ones to be actually dismissed, so will come to work (better one of the low paid CC gets sacked- less to lose). The strike will collapse as the issues are not life or death (supervisory positions on overcrewed flights anyway?). WW will, I reckon, take them head on and break them as the independants are working like that anyway- BA CC costs are way out of line. Instead of keeping quiet and trying to hang onto their exceedingly generous conditions and agreements, they are sowing the seeds of their termination.

[atyourcervix73]

M Mouse,
Pot calling the kettle black me thinks.....your post is also loaded with clichés
Whilst your observations have merit, you miss the key issue here, the workforce have spoken in a unified and unprecedented fashion that the current management ineptitude and bullying cannot continue in its present form.

Most BA CC accept that there needs to be a revamp of certain working practices, but its a two way rather than one way process....which seems to be lost or conveniently forgotten by a large section of posters on here.
The strike ballot and its overwhelming support is indicative of the frustration felt by the ordinary CC members who want to be part of the solution, rather than viewed as part of the problem

I would agree that BASSA are guilty at times of overstating issues, but on balance BA management could never be called honest brokers, in point of fact, the middle managers appear to be inept, lacking intelligence, and generally unable to manage.
WW has a fight on his hands, he must find some middle ground with BASSA, his neck is on the line here as much as anyone else IMHO

Rainboe, don't equate the lack of will(or collusion) shown by BALPA members within BA as something that current CC members possess (just ask the Eurofleet drivers how happy they are with their current deal)
Perhaps you would be happy to be told that because of a perforated eardrum the company would begin formal ((Sickness monitoring?) procedures to discipline you..........as happened two weeks ago to a CC friend of mine.

[Ancient Observer]

Gaining public support?

Many of the e-mails on here are "inward looking". If BA CC are to succeed with their strikes, they must gain public support. They must look externally to "joe public". I'm not convinced that current "sickness" levels in BA - at more than twice the UK average, and current working time arrangements (working half the time of teachers), will help BA CC gain public support. 40% over-manning and excessive sleeping time on LH won't gain any support. I think that CC need to pick an issue which will be supported by the public. The current tactic of complaining about everything is not a good tactic. As with other customers who have posted here - I have a choice and do not have to fly with BA. I happen to prefer to fly with BA, but I need certainty when I book a flight.

[Rainboe]

A fight has been called on a mixed bag of unmotivating issues. That is why there will be trouble keeping support when the sack is threatened. I know the sickness arrangements are draconian- nobody can deny the CC sickness figures have been just hilarious, with cancelled services for shortages of CC bad at Wimbledon/Henley/Ascot times. This was needing to be addressed, and everybody has copped it as a result. What the CC are complaining about regarding crewing is something outside that has been worked for years. The greater limitations on flight times by CC than even by the pilots is not something people outside will understand and needs to be addressed. I cannot believe the way I have seen CC work outside- the company cannot remain an ivory tower and WW knows that. A comparison of BA Longhaul CC and Virgin crew shows why this strike will fail. Merely instigating the strike means the company has been handed the means to break the union, and after those daft scenes At the BASSA meeting, there will be absolutely no sympathy. Sadly, you are on a loser.

[atyourcervix73]

A comparison of BA Longhaul CC and Virgin crew shows why this strike will fail.

An interesting perspective, although this strike isn't about a comparison between utterly different organisations, furthermore the argument could be put forward that "whats good for the goose" etc....perhaps a comparison of management positions? (I KNOW that would put the cat amongst the pigeons at waterworld)

As far as dismissals are concerned, BA are on a loser....read the previous posts, and have a look at the DTI website, those that are dismissed will make a net gain financially as well as having considerable further legal recourse.

Its all to play for.....interesting times.

[52049er]

The problem is cervix73 that WW will simply add up what he thinks it will cost to sack the first 300 strikers (at c£12000 each thats about £3.5million) against what he will save by ending the strike (£20million a day?) and future savings to the company.

Most crew I talk to know they are on a good deal (much hilarity the other day when discussing working for a Middle Eastern carrier "have you seen their payscales?") and will not risk it for a one off, 1 weeks-salary-per-year's service plus maybe another £10k, compensation package from BA in 18 months time.

I also think our managers are worse than useless, but I fear for your tactics and have enjoyed too many beers with good CC friends to wish you anything but well.

[M.Mouse]

An interesting perspective, although this strike isn't about a comparison between utterly different organisations,

What are you blathering about Virgin is an airline isn't it?

If you have read the DTI site you have certainly not understood it, you can be sacked and your recourse will be relatively paltry compensation you certainly will not be re-employed.

I am sure CSDs will soon get other jobs paying them similar salaries to their current gross of £40,000 p.a.

[atyourcervix73]

What are you blathering about Virgin is an airline isn't it?

So is EZY and RYR, but are they comparable?

If you have read the DTI site you have certainly not understood it, you can be sacked and your recourse will be relatively paltry compensation you certainly will not be re-employed.

Opppps you haven't read the amendments and the caveat's

[Skintman]

BA sickness

Some facts in this debate might help.

Does anyone know what the sickness levels for BA CC actually are? It has been in the press previously that they are amongst the highest in the UK, significantly higher than other private sector employers (and other airlines)and even higher than the public sector.

If sickness levels are very high, then WW has a duty to discuss it with BA staff. If it is at normal levels, then the CC have a good reason to oppose him.

Anyone got any figures?

Skintman

[Litebulbs]

But how many other jobs do you risk being disiplined for reporting to work when sick? A cold with blocked ears on the ground is a lot different to a cold with blocked ears in the air!

[overstress]

Litebulbs. That argument works well until you compare BA cc sickness levels with that of the pilots.

Because of BA cc management policy it is very difficult for them to get requested days off. Therefore they go sick, hence the high levels referred to and the introduction of the infamous EG300 policy.

[Litebulbs]

The arguement still works. CC are customer facing and come into direct contact with alot more pax that FD do in a working day. The chances of picking up an illness is certainly greater.

[M.Mouse]

atyourcervix73

So you believe that Virgin are not a directly comparable airline?

[Olls]

So do BA have an issue with sickness? It appears that they do (if people are talking in terms of 10 days sick/year) and are therefore dealing with it. As with all these sort of situations if one is honest about sickness there will not be a problem. However BA are still culturally stuck in the old nationalised mold ('change' NOOOO!!!) hence the strikes. A little like the last strike they had in 2005, no-one had any patience with that one either.

If BA go on strike then surely the union have failed in their objective. (oo unless the union objective is to flex their muscles and cause trouble).