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BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat

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BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat

Old 15th Jan 2007, 20:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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I support the BA Cabin crew with some aspects of their gripe like being screwed over by management but they have to give in on some things like the stupid rules they have like ‘Industrial Hours’!!! They should go to along the lines of CAP371 like everyone else, or the same hours as pilots if they have different, as the Cabin Crew can’t go anywhere without the pilots!!

Cabin crew are the face of BA and have a strong influence on whether a passenger will use BA again so they should be looked after by management, along with all other employees!

I hope for BA’s sake and everyone that works there that this is resolved without resorting to Industrial Action
I think some passengers are probably losing patience at the moment and other airlines such as Virgin and the European major airlines must be looking forward to the BA passengers.
If I was a business passenger I would avoid BA at all costs at the moment, even though I like flying with BA as most of the crews that have looked after me in flight have been fantastic!
There are just too many things that could go wrong, and cabin crew threatening to go on strike is another thing. This may not be felt too much at the time but in 6 months the high rolling passengers that make BA a lot of its money could have gone elsewhere, and that will hurt.

I do hope that something is done about some of the shockingly outdated working practices of some of the ground staff (i.e. Loaders and some other ramp staff) But that is another issue entirely!
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:00
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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BA is a wonderful airline, lets not get a bunch of overpaid cart pushers get BA down. There are lots of girls who will I am sure do your job with half your pay and conditions. Get into the real world, you have had it too good for too long.
Go on Wilie sort out whats good for the share holders, look after who matters and "take care" of the test.
GO WILLIE GO!!!!!!!
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:02
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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................
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:09
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Just to say I think there maybe 'performance issues' within certain groups within BA Cabin Crew. I tend to agree with PalmTree. It seems to be custom and practice that on long haul routes, the food service is dished out asap so that the Cabin Crew can 'party' at the rear. Whether this is a 'response' to poor salaries, I don't know for sure. Certainly in my experience, where an employer pays low wages and expects alot, the employees tend to be less committed.
I'll be interested to see how the strike pans out. The problem is that the flight attendant job, in economic terms, is fairly low skilled. (I know I'm going to get berated for that). However, my perception of life in BA Cabin Crew is this. You work hard in short haul for a few years and eventually get long haul. The pay is relatively low compared to other employment sectors, e.g. a PA in a law firm, (please ignore gender stereotyping momentarily) but you get to see a bit of the world which you wouldn't otherwise see, (i.e. flying a desk at zero feet doing 9-5, putting up with machine coffee, etc), and have a laugh down leg with like minded individuals. In short, a trade off between pay and perks. Come a certain point, it becomes boring and you jack it in or stay to become a CSD.
To use a horrible phrase, the Cabin Crew want best of both worlds, the increased pay as well as the perks. Can't see it happening, there is a quid pro quo in today's commercial world. My perception is that BA offers more opportunity than most, e.g. a good route network for travel concessions etc. At a guess, Willie Walsh will play hard ball, sufficient cover will be arranged for the strike days from non BASSA staff, with doubling up on some routes. The strikers won't get paid for not working and realise it isn't so much fun afterall being a token Luddite and get back to work.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:12
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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get a life sevenforseven

Originally Posted by sevenforeseven
BA is a wonderful airline, lets not get a bunch of overpaid cart pushers get BA down. There are lots of girls who will I am sure do your job with half your pay and conditions. Get into the real world, you have had it too good for too long.
Go on Wilie sort out whats good for the share holders, look after who matters and "take care" of the test.
GO WILLIE GO!!!!!!!

WELL what a load C**P YOU HAVE JUST POSTED YOU NO NOTHING OF OUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS .WHO DO YOU THINK MADE BA THIS WONDERFUL AIRLINE, MR WALSH HIMSELF I DONT THINK SO.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:13
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pips, I wouldn't take the bait. Delete your post and let the plonker be ignored.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:28
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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when are the long haul cabin crew going to visit planet earth.the highest paid platelayers on this planet...who shoot off to bed within 2 hrs of being airborne and that includes going to cairo! they are on overtime on 90% of flights as the plane is late.The service is just passable,try club class.the sickness interviews were brought in because cabin crew had the highest sickness rate(spot them at henley/wimbledon/nice weather at weekends in the summer). the upper deck purser on over £50000 are not required with only 18 passengers. and so the list goes on..and the fu222rs will certainly not be getting a rest seat for their hangers on on my flights.Dump the lot and bring on thevirginsrgins .one thing is for sure,if Ba goes tits up,their cabin crew will be unemployable anywhere else,they are too old,too fat and too bloody minded
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:30
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe sevenforeseven sits in his ivory tower at Waterside, he obviously doesn't have a clue what goes on at the sharp end! Cabin crew, Engineers, Pilots and ground handlers have been shafted since the day WWW walked in, i'm leaving one way or another, either to FlyMayBe or to another job of my choice, i for one cannot wait to see BA fold, they deserve it big style, Messers Branson, O'Leary, French and Orange must be rubbing their hand with glee. Bye bye BA, Bye bye WWW!!!!
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:50
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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How many of you guys supported the miners
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 21:51
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I just wish some over paid crew would take a few minutes out to see how good they've got it. Seriously, you have. Most other airlines do not have such a thing as crew rest. I've been on a flight where the crew have walked through the cabin in shirt, tie and pyjama bottoms!!!! How professional! I'm not based at the golden runways, but I'm allegedly working for the same company. At LGW we get told every day by pax how friendly and chatty etc we are. Lots of pax prefer flying from LGW because it's less hassle, fewer delays and we're professional. So, what's my rant about? Well, all the issues bassa has decided to ballot about, we already deal with at LGW. We work 3 crew on the 737. We have one CM and one Purser on the 777 whether it's 3 class or 4 class. We're on hourly pay (and survive!). The difference is that I and a majority of my colleagues at LGW are fed up with being sold down the river by our so-called colleagues at LHR for years but they expect us to stand up for them and strike. It winds me up. I'd be happy to vote for a strike if the issues actually affect me, but they don't (apart from the little breakfast allowance that was added at the end of the form as we were kicking off about it). I don't want to lose my job. I don't want to have to look for another job. I know I'm not the best paid in the company or indeed the world, but I'm a hell of a lot better paid than a lot of other people. I'm not starving to death and I can still afford a glass of wine when I want. It's called living within your means without being greedy. Sorry for the rant, had to get it out of my system...
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:13
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fangatang
I have to disagree - they are not all too fat!
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:13
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Sackings......
Originally Posted by atyourcervix73
Trouble is, multiply that by 8000 or so, and you can clearly see that the company would quickly become overwhelmed in a legal quagmire, put simply BA would lose each and every case on the basis of a strike carried out in a legal fashion. Only an act of parliament would help them.
Can't get sacked for 12 weeks? Thats what BASSA would like you to believe and what their lawyers said at the meeting, but a little bird tells me they forgot to mention the possibility of unlawful dismissal. Now given that the maximum compensation for unlawful dismissal is around £61K, lets call it £50K to make the maths easier and reflect that many crew won't get anywhere near £50K. A strike costs BA around £20,000K every day. So, if on day 1 of the strike BA sacks 400 crew it'll cost them a maximum of £20,000K. If that shortens the strike by a day WWs broken even. If it shortens it by two days he's quids in. 8200ish voted to strike. Probably about 6000 might actually strike. 1 in every 15 strikers fired on day 1. How long do you think support for the strike will last?
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:30
  #53 (permalink)  

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CM. You are too generous with your estimates. If BA dismiss strikers illegally (unfair dismissal), and the employee takes them to a tribunal, awards are made in line with redundancy awards on the basis of 1 weeks pay per year of completed service.
The ET may also make an order for re-instatement, which is refused may then trigger a further compensatory award of up to £15K if the employer fails to act upon the order.
Thus, protections for a New Contract CC with 8 years service would be worth approx £2700 if he/she were dismissed. Perhaps £7000 if they subsequently refused to re-employ him/her.
So, BASSA members can look forward to the threat of being sacked (unfair dismissal), refusal to reinstate, and subsequent puny tribunal award.
Furthermore, there are also restrictions under the law that prevent the selective re-employment of dismissed employees preventing only some of those participating from being re-employed. But this does not prevent BA from selectively sacking some strikers, and refusing to reinstate all those sacked, thereby accepting a one-off 'hit' to get rid of them.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:32
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Im sure that being dismissed for being a trade union member or being involved in their activities, would be treated as unfair and also have no upper limit for compensation.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:37
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Im sure that being dismissed for being a trade union member or being involved in their activities, would be treated as unfair and also have no upper limit for compensation.
Ignore and see above!
Litebulbs - if you are referring to my posting then you are wrong, I'm just trying to point out the reality of the law. Have a look here if you don't believe me.
Technically you are correct, but strikers will be sacked for breach of contract, not for being members of a union.

Last edited by overstress; 15th Jan 2007 at 23:14.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:47
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Unfortuantly I think quite alot of BA customers have been avoiding for a while now long/medium range bookings.

Personally I always prefer to keep my cash in Britain even if it costs a wee bit more and use a British carrier. But this year while booking some winter sun I had a choice of Emirates or BA. I really didn't want my holiday spoiled so I went Emirates despite it being more expensive.

The unfortunate thing is I really can't see BA managment being able to back down. They are in a catch 22, a strike will cost them big time. But not changing things will cost them even more. And once the strikes do start the drop in sales will be such that they will have to see it out to the end.

And I really don't think you will have the support of the British public either.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:48
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Isn't that about the legality of calling a ballot and protections given to both employees, trade unions and employers, not about compensation for unfair dismissal?
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 22:54
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I must admit I had trouble understanding the scenes of unbridled joy at the CC meeting when the cameras picked up the announcement of the pro-strike vote! I would say a very high proportion of them will 'chicken out' when it goes nuclear.

"Certainly in my experience, where an employer pays low wages and expects alot, the employees tend to be less committed." Disagree!
After a career in BA and now an independant, I have to say I am stunned at how hard working and dedicated they are in independantland. I have never seen BA crews work like I have seen amongst independants outside. Dare one say far more commitment too? The astonishing saga of 75 minutes bunk rest on a LHR-CAI followed by a 24 hour slip? How about LTN- Egypt or Israel-back to LTN then taxi to LGW. 3 cabin crew 737, full meal service both ways. I'm afraid the reality of life outside hasn't sunk into BA yet! I hope they see sense, but they will get broken if they go ahead- the costs disparity is ginormous.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 23:08
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Originally Posted by Litebulbs
Isn't that about the legality of calling a ballot and protections given to both employees, trade unions and employers, not about compensation for unfair dismissal?
Possibly the wrong link but I know the one he means. If you don't have a legal industrial action you can be sacked for breach of contract and it's all legit. If you do have a legal action you can still be sacked, but then its unlawful. However BA still don't have to take you back and can just pay compensation. Thats the law I'm afraid, even if BASSA don't want you to hear it.
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Old 15th Jan 2007, 23:12
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From the DTI:

Dismissal during an industrial dispute

It is automatically unfair to dismiss workers for taking legally organised official industrial action lasting twelve weeks or less. It is also unfair to dismiss them where they have taken action for more than twelve weeks if the employer has not first taken such procedural steps as are reasonable to resolve the dispute. It will be for the employment tribunals to determine whether an employer has taken all reasonable steps, and in doing so, they will have regard to the behaviour of both the employer and the union. For further information, see Industrial action and the law: a guide for employees, trade union members and others.

Otherwise, subject to the exceptions listed below, an employment tribunal has no jurisdiction to determine a complaint of unfair dismissal from an employee dismissed while participating in official industrial action provided his or her employer:

has dismissed all who were taking part in the action at the same establishment as the complainant at the date of his or her dismissal; and
has not offered re-engagement to any of them within three months of their date of dismissal without making him or her a similar offer.
Likewise (again, subject to the exceptions listed below), an employment tribunal has no jurisdiction to determine a complaint of unfair dismissal from an employee dismissed while participating in unofficial industrial action.

The exceptions are that an employment tribunal can determine a complaint of unfair dismissal from an employee dismissed while participating in official or unofficial industrial action if the reason or main reason for the dismissal was:

the taking by the employee of certain specified types of action on health and safety grounds (see Dismissal for taking action on health and safety grounds);

on maternity related grounds (see Dismissal on the grounds of pregnancy or maternity);

in respect of the taking by the employee of certain specified types of action as an employee representative or as a candidate to become an employee representative, or of the participation of the employee in the election of such a representative (see Dismissal relating to activities as an employee representative); or

that the employee exercised rights under the Working Time Regulations 1998 (see Dismissal relating to the Working Time Regulations 1998); or

that the employee exercised rights prescribed in the Maternity and Parental Leave etc Regulations 1999 (see Dismissal relating to parental leave, Dismissal relating to time off for dependants, Dismissal on the grounds of pregnancy and maternity); or


for reasons related to paternity or adoption leave (see Dismissal related to paternity leave and Dismissal related to adoption leave; or


that the employee asserted the right to time off for dependants (see Dismissal relating to time off for dependants); or


from 6 April 2005, for reasons related to the right to request flexible working arrangements (see Dismissal relating to the right to request flexible working arrangements); or


from 6 April 2005, that the employee had been summoned for jury service or had been absent from work on jury service (see Dismissal relating to jury service).
An employment tribunal can also determine a complaint of unfair dismissal from an employee dismissed while participating in unofficial industrial action if the reason or main reason for the dismissal was that the employee made a protected disclosure within the meaning of the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 (see Dismissal for making a public interest disclosure).





Award of compensation

Where the tribunal finds that an employee has been unfairly dismissed it will provide the alternative remedy of an award of compensation. Such an award will usually consist of:

a basic award, based on the employee's age, length of service and weekly pay and calculated in a similar way to a redundancy payment;
a compensatory award, which is an amount which the tribunal considers just and equitable for the loss which the employee has suffered because of the dismissal.
Basic award

The basic award is calculated by adding up the following amounts, but only continuous employment within the last 20 years can count:

11/2 weeks' pay for each complete year of employment when an employee was between the ages of 41 and 65 inclusive;
1 week's pay for each complete year of employment when an employee was between the ages of 22 and 40 inclusive;
half a weeks' pay for each complete year of employment when an employee was below the age of 22.
The maximum number of week's' pay that may be awarded is 30. There is also a maximum week's pay that can be used to calculate the award. (The limit on a week's pay may vary from year to year: the current figure is given in Limits on payments and awards). In trade union, health and safety, employee representative, workforce representative and occupational pension scheme trustee cases (see Interim Relief) there is a minimum figure for the basic award. (This minimum may vary from year to year: the current figure is also given in Limits on payments and awards).

The basic award, including the minimum award in trade union, health and safety, employee representative, workforce representative and occupational pension scheme trustee cases, will be reduced if:

the tribunal considers that the employee's conduct before dismissal justifies a reduction;
the employee was within a year of age 65 at the effective date of termination (only until 1 October 2006);the employee has unreasonably refused an offer of reinstatement from the employer, or has unreasonably prevented the employer from complying with an order for reinstatement; or the employee has already been awarded or has received a redundancy payment; or the employee has been awarded any amount in respect of the dismissal under a designated dismissal procedures agreement.
From 1 October 2004, where an employee has been dismissed without statutory dismissal and disciplinary procedures having been followed (if failure to follow them was wholly or mainly the employer's fault) and the amount of the basic award is less than four weeks' pay (before any reduction for the last two reasons above), the tribunal will increase it to four weeks' pay unless it considers that this would result in injustice to the employer. Such an increase will also be made, from 1 October 2006, where it is found that an employee has been unfairly dismissed as a result of the employer having failed to comply with the duty to consider procedure in connection with an employee’s request to continue working beyond retirement.

Compensatory award

This award compensates the employee for the loss suffered as a result of the dismissal insofar as the employer is responsible for this loss. As well as covering the loss of earnings between the dismissal and the hearing and an estimate of future loss, the tribunal will also consider matters such as loss of pension and other rights and any reasonable expenses incurred by the employee as a result of the dismissal.

The compensatory award is an amount the tribunal considers just and equitable in the circumstances, but there is a maximum compensatory award except in cases where the reason for the dismissal is that the employee made a protected disclosure under the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 or took action relating to health and safety. (The maximum compensatory award may vary from year to year: the current figure is given in Limits on payments and awards). In particular, the tribunal will reduce the award if it finds that the employee was partly to blame for the dismissal or because the employee did not mitigate his or her loss - for example, by failing to make reasonable efforts to obtain another job. Certain payments made by the employer to the employee - for example, wages in lieu of notice or an ex gratia payment - will normally be offset against any compensatory award. The compensatory award will also be reduced by the amount of the employee's earnings from any other employment between the dismissal and the tribunal hearing.

Since 1 January 1999, tribunals have had the power to reduce the compensatory award where the employee has not made use of an internal appeals procedure whose existence he or she was informed of at or shortly after the time of dismissal. Similarly, the tribunals have been able to make a supplementary award, subject to a maximum of two weeks' pay, where an employer has not allowed the employee to use an appeal procedure provided by him or her. These provisions will be replaced on 1 October 2004, when statutory dismissal and disciplinary procedures come into force. Under the new provisions, if an employer dismisses an employee without the statutory procedure having been completed and the failure to complete it was wholly or mainly the employer's fault, any compensatory award will be increased by at least 10 per cent and up to 50 per cent. Similarly, if the procedure was not completed and the fault lay wholly or mainly with the employee, any compensatory award will be reduced by 10 to 50 per cent. At what point on the scale between 10 and 50 per cent to make the increase or reduction will be at the tribunal's discretion, and in exceptional cases it will be able to make one or less than 10 per cent or none at all.

Non-compliance with the terms of an order for reinstatement or re-engagement: additional award

If the employer refuses to comply with the terms of an order for reinstatement or re-engagement, then the employee should notify the tribunal so that it can look into the matter. If the employee's complaint is upheld, an award of compensation will be made and if there has been a total failure to comply with the order there will be an additional award of compensation over and above the basic and compensatory awards, unless the employer can satisfy the tribunal that it was not practicable to comply with the order. The additional award will be between 26 and 52 weeks' pay.

There is a maximum week's pay that can be used to calculate the additional award. (The limit on a week's pay may vary from year to year: the current figure is given in Limits on payments and awards).

Note: Employment tribunals may however exceed these limits if the total compensation awarded (apart from the basic award) would otherwise be less than the arrears of pay element of the original award with which the employer failed to comply.




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