Mid-air collision over Brasil
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Flight Safety:
Interesting thoughts...
all the planes I have flown with TCAS require that the transponder be selected to the TCAS/TA/TA position...if something goes wrong with the transponder, the TCAS drops out and a warning message occurs.
So, in this case, did the Legacy crew notice any TCAS problems? Which might have indicated transponder problems.
also, why didn't ATC notify Legacy of intermittent transponder?
In the USA, if radar contact is lost with a flight, ATC is duty bound to inform said flight: RADAR CONTACT LOST
I do think there may be a "mechanical" component to the collision, and mentioned earlier there might be an intermittent fault in the cable between transponder and antenna...a good transponder and a bad antenna= no transponder for practical purposes.
Interesting thoughts...
all the planes I have flown with TCAS require that the transponder be selected to the TCAS/TA/TA position...if something goes wrong with the transponder, the TCAS drops out and a warning message occurs.
So, in this case, did the Legacy crew notice any TCAS problems? Which might have indicated transponder problems.
also, why didn't ATC notify Legacy of intermittent transponder?
In the USA, if radar contact is lost with a flight, ATC is duty bound to inform said flight: RADAR CONTACT LOST
I do think there may be a "mechanical" component to the collision, and mentioned earlier there might be an intermittent fault in the cable between transponder and antenna...a good transponder and a bad antenna= no transponder for practical purposes.
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Regarding the "infant mortality or deficiency", factories or plant assemblies usually take care of it. Statistically,it has been found that around one hundred hours operating on the bench will reveal "nearly" all these infant deseases.
I'd be surprised,concerning such security equipment, if nothing was done in that matter.
I'd be surprised,concerning such security equipment, if nothing was done in that matter.
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Does anyone care to offer an opinion on my previous post #287?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...246031&page=15
I suggested that the TCAS could have an intermittent fault and now it seems other information may support that theory. I am wondering if I was off the mark with any of my other comments and am still curious about the RT failure procedures over Brazil?
Cheers
SW
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...246031&page=15
I suggested that the TCAS could have an intermittent fault and now it seems other information may support that theory. I am wondering if I was off the mark with any of my other comments and am still curious about the RT failure procedures over Brazil?
Cheers
SW
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That would mean TCAS would have to have an intermittent fault on both aircraft at the same time, the odds of that happening...at least a 100000000 to 1 I would have thought?
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Maybe this could help..
http://www.skyguide.ch/en/Dossiers/D...5_internet.pdf
And if I'm not wrong Embraer has issued an operation bulletin talking about that. Any ERJ pilot care to share that informaton with us?
http://www.skyguide.ch/en/Dossiers/D...5_internet.pdf
And if I'm not wrong Embraer has issued an operation bulletin talking about that. Any ERJ pilot care to share that informaton with us?
alemaobaiano:
My comments regarding the quality and nature of the press reports coming out of Brasil are not intended as indictment of your country, it's culture or it's people. I critisize these press accounts upon the same basis as I would any reporting anywhere. Perhaps something gets lost in the translation, but the stories I've read started off with a presumption of some malfeasance and culpability on the part of the Legacy crew from the outset and has continued unbroken since. As far as I am aware, none of the accusations made against them by the press have been verified by any independant objective source to date. Their representations of technical matters concerning the operation of aircraft, the ATC system and the rules pertaining to same are poorly researched, and in some instances, wrong. Go back and read the stories and you may come to see my point.
If any similar suspicion has been cast on the GOL crew by the press, or by any statements attributed to any government official, I have not seen it. From my perspective, this indicates an editorial bias intended to create certain impressions in the minds of the readers. My initial impression of the objectivity and ethical fidelity of the press reports I refer to is based upon these observations.
To the credit of government officials involved with the investigation, they have been very careful not to make public statements which might later reflect poorly upon their credibility. This is as it should be. I agree with you that the behavior of the press is consistent with what is expected in a great many places around the world, including the USA. As to Mr. Sharkey's impressions of the safety and security of the Legacy crew as they remain in the country by court order, it seemed to me to be somewhat melodramatic too. I get the impression that the whole affair was rather a shock to his psyche. Given the manner in which the occupants of the Legacy learned of the scale of the tragedy after surviving the event, this is understandable. More of a first hand personal acount than a journalistic report. Perhaps his words should be taken with this in mind.
I too have confidence that the official investigation will be be properly conducted according to internationaly recognized standards for aviation accident investigation. No reason to believe otherwise.
Now, a few words as to the applicabilty and importance of Mr. Lepore's pilot credentials. Of course the matter of whether he has recieved the EMB type rating and associated training bears upon his qualification to act as a required crewmember. An FAA airmen registry search does not necessarily reflect recently issued airman certificates. Updates to the registry are performed periodically. It can take 60-120 days to process newly issued certificates and they may not be reflected on the FAA website until processing and issuance of the new permanent certificate has been completed. I have not seen any reports indicating what certificates have been shown to investigating officials. Just the report regarding the lack of a certificate being reflected on the FAA website accessible registry search utility. BIG difference.
This is just one of many cases of press reports which display a lack of care and concern with truth as a central goal in the reporting. These stories appear to be filled with assertations made which are based on half-truths, hearsay and yes, innuendo. Is there any reason why the press may prefer to cover this event in a way that creates certain perceptions? I leave that for each person to decide for themselves. I am niether shocked by this, nor do I think it is limitied to the Brasillian press. Rather, the news media of all countries appear to have their own editorial agendas. In general, it is my belief that they are self serving.
If the facts, once established, point to improper behavior on the part of the Legacy crew being causal in the accident, I will accept it. Like it or not. I do reject the notion that the press has acted responsibly in their reporting of this matter and I stand by the critical meaning of my statements, provocative as they might be. As a living, thinking human being, you are entitled to believe otherwise and to offer any opinion you wish. There is no requirement that we all agree!
The truth of this matter will emerge over time, Like it or not!
Best regards,
Westhawk
My comments regarding the quality and nature of the press reports coming out of Brasil are not intended as indictment of your country, it's culture or it's people. I critisize these press accounts upon the same basis as I would any reporting anywhere. Perhaps something gets lost in the translation, but the stories I've read started off with a presumption of some malfeasance and culpability on the part of the Legacy crew from the outset and has continued unbroken since. As far as I am aware, none of the accusations made against them by the press have been verified by any independant objective source to date. Their representations of technical matters concerning the operation of aircraft, the ATC system and the rules pertaining to same are poorly researched, and in some instances, wrong. Go back and read the stories and you may come to see my point.
If any similar suspicion has been cast on the GOL crew by the press, or by any statements attributed to any government official, I have not seen it. From my perspective, this indicates an editorial bias intended to create certain impressions in the minds of the readers. My initial impression of the objectivity and ethical fidelity of the press reports I refer to is based upon these observations.
To the credit of government officials involved with the investigation, they have been very careful not to make public statements which might later reflect poorly upon their credibility. This is as it should be. I agree with you that the behavior of the press is consistent with what is expected in a great many places around the world, including the USA. As to Mr. Sharkey's impressions of the safety and security of the Legacy crew as they remain in the country by court order, it seemed to me to be somewhat melodramatic too. I get the impression that the whole affair was rather a shock to his psyche. Given the manner in which the occupants of the Legacy learned of the scale of the tragedy after surviving the event, this is understandable. More of a first hand personal acount than a journalistic report. Perhaps his words should be taken with this in mind.
I too have confidence that the official investigation will be be properly conducted according to internationaly recognized standards for aviation accident investigation. No reason to believe otherwise.
Now, a few words as to the applicabilty and importance of Mr. Lepore's pilot credentials. Of course the matter of whether he has recieved the EMB type rating and associated training bears upon his qualification to act as a required crewmember. An FAA airmen registry search does not necessarily reflect recently issued airman certificates. Updates to the registry are performed periodically. It can take 60-120 days to process newly issued certificates and they may not be reflected on the FAA website until processing and issuance of the new permanent certificate has been completed. I have not seen any reports indicating what certificates have been shown to investigating officials. Just the report regarding the lack of a certificate being reflected on the FAA website accessible registry search utility. BIG difference.
This is just one of many cases of press reports which display a lack of care and concern with truth as a central goal in the reporting. These stories appear to be filled with assertations made which are based on half-truths, hearsay and yes, innuendo. Is there any reason why the press may prefer to cover this event in a way that creates certain perceptions? I leave that for each person to decide for themselves. I am niether shocked by this, nor do I think it is limitied to the Brasillian press. Rather, the news media of all countries appear to have their own editorial agendas. In general, it is my belief that they are self serving.
If the facts, once established, point to improper behavior on the part of the Legacy crew being causal in the accident, I will accept it. Like it or not. I do reject the notion that the press has acted responsibly in their reporting of this matter and I stand by the critical meaning of my statements, provocative as they might be. As a living, thinking human being, you are entitled to believe otherwise and to offer any opinion you wish. There is no requirement that we all agree!
The truth of this matter will emerge over time, Like it or not!
Best regards,
Westhawk
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"Never heard of anybody being jailed for causing an air crash; however, if I am not mistaken (I am not an attorney)" (Originally posted by aimscabinet)
As I recall, an ATC (Tasic I think his name was) was jailed in 1977 following a MAC over Zagreb between a DC9 and a Trident 3 but was released on appeal after 2 years in prison. It was a very complex case as I remember.
As I recall, an ATC (Tasic I think his name was) was jailed in 1977 following a MAC over Zagreb between a DC9 and a Trident 3 but was released on appeal after 2 years in prison. It was a very complex case as I remember.
Apparently, there was a case in Venezuela or Colombia as well, when one or two pilots were sentenced to a prison term.
Westhawk, your most recent post would indicate that most of us agree on the basics. Like Alemaobaiano I live in Brazil, speak Portuguese and understand certain nuances in the language which might not be immediately apparent in a babelfish translation. He and others on Pprune, and I, have tried to present what we glean from the press without prejudice.
I may have contributed to your annoyance at the press by providing free translations of some of the press reports. Without bias and, I hope, without editorialising. If I have, though, I apologise to you and to all and will take greater care in future.
We all know press coverage quality varies tremendously; you see good and awful coverage in the same newspaper. That's not just in Brazil, it's anywhere. Xenophobia appears in some of the coverage just as it would had the geographic location and nationalities been reversed. But right now it's all you have to go on. Live with it; filter it out as you would had the accident occurred in the US, or you run the risk of applying the same blanket condemnation you might appear to be accusing others of.
Having said that, your ire against the press pales in comparison with that on local aviation fora!
Back to basics and a few things I think you can count on:
a) a fair investigation and no coverup.
b) the Legacy crew will be hotel-bound here until their role in the accident is established OR the US embassy can guarantee their return for further depositions.
c) press coverage will quickly disappear; there is plenty of other excitement going on including a presidential election in its second round. Whatever press coverage does appear is likely to be less sensational, based on accident investigation releases or leaks if any.
I may have contributed to your annoyance at the press by providing free translations of some of the press reports. Without bias and, I hope, without editorialising. If I have, though, I apologise to you and to all and will take greater care in future.
We all know press coverage quality varies tremendously; you see good and awful coverage in the same newspaper. That's not just in Brazil, it's anywhere. Xenophobia appears in some of the coverage just as it would had the geographic location and nationalities been reversed. But right now it's all you have to go on. Live with it; filter it out as you would had the accident occurred in the US, or you run the risk of applying the same blanket condemnation you might appear to be accusing others of.
Having said that, your ire against the press pales in comparison with that on local aviation fora!
Back to basics and a few things I think you can count on:
a) a fair investigation and no coverup.
b) the Legacy crew will be hotel-bound here until their role in the accident is established OR the US embassy can guarantee their return for further depositions.
c) press coverage will quickly disappear; there is plenty of other excitement going on including a presidential election in its second round. Whatever press coverage does appear is likely to be less sensational, based on accident investigation releases or leaks if any.
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Closer to home, what of the case of the pilot(s) of the Swissair DC-8 overrun at Athens ? I forget exactly, but either one pilot was jailed by the Greeks, or only escaped jail via a diplomatic solution, despite a ditch in the overrun area which had never been filled. Willing to be corrected here if wrong.
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Westhawk:
you mention: <Rather, the news media of all countries appear to have their own editorial agendas. In general, it is my belief that they are self serving.>
I would like to understand the above better.
To those in Brazil:
I appreciate your efforts to send out the information you are getting and can fully understand how difficulties and nuances in translation can be misunderstood.
Thank you again for trying to keep us informed.
I do think some of us remember the 1979 Swissair/Athens thing .
for those who would like a briefing on the SWISSAIR situation:
http://yarchive.net/air/airliners/greek_courts.html
I know of very few honorable press members who don't want to find out the truth. In the very fast paced world of broadcast journalism, one can go up the wrong path quite visibly to the viewer in a rush to the truth. To just report that two planes collided and 155 died is not enough, one must offer speculation as to how something could happen...always indicating that speculation is just what it is...
I recall the seaplane accident in Miami and I speculated on structural failure...within 5 days that type of plane was grounded for inspection of metal fatigue. Sometimes putting stuff out quickly, makes the whole aviation/govt. community at least think.
Perhaps by talking of transponder problems, whether mechanical or intentional, will alert even one pilot or controller to monitor things a bit closer.
Coverage will drop off , usually a story is good for 5 days and that is it. I hope our fellow aviators in Brazil will keep us posted.
jon
you mention: <Rather, the news media of all countries appear to have their own editorial agendas. In general, it is my belief that they are self serving.>
I would like to understand the above better.
To those in Brazil:
I appreciate your efforts to send out the information you are getting and can fully understand how difficulties and nuances in translation can be misunderstood.
Thank you again for trying to keep us informed.
I do think some of us remember the 1979 Swissair/Athens thing .
for those who would like a briefing on the SWISSAIR situation:
http://yarchive.net/air/airliners/greek_courts.html
I know of very few honorable press members who don't want to find out the truth. In the very fast paced world of broadcast journalism, one can go up the wrong path quite visibly to the viewer in a rush to the truth. To just report that two planes collided and 155 died is not enough, one must offer speculation as to how something could happen...always indicating that speculation is just what it is...
I recall the seaplane accident in Miami and I speculated on structural failure...within 5 days that type of plane was grounded for inspection of metal fatigue. Sometimes putting stuff out quickly, makes the whole aviation/govt. community at least think.
Perhaps by talking of transponder problems, whether mechanical or intentional, will alert even one pilot or controller to monitor things a bit closer.
Coverage will drop off , usually a story is good for 5 days and that is it. I hope our fellow aviators in Brazil will keep us posted.
jon
broadreach:
Thank you for you post. I intend to follow your advice to "live with it", since there is little choice but to do so in any case!
I just had to express my disappointment with the quality of the reporting as I see it. I should probably know better...
I do look forward to learning more about the objective facts surrounding this accident so that the speculation has a basis upon which to become more informed and rely less on loosely compiled supposition and hearsay.
I am confident that this will happen over a period of time, sensational reporting notwithstanding.
Best regards,
Westhawk
Thank you for you post. I intend to follow your advice to "live with it", since there is little choice but to do so in any case!
I just had to express my disappointment with the quality of the reporting as I see it. I should probably know better...
I do look forward to learning more about the objective facts surrounding this accident so that the speculation has a basis upon which to become more informed and rely less on loosely compiled supposition and hearsay.
I am confident that this will happen over a period of time, sensational reporting notwithstanding.
Best regards,
Westhawk
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Regarding possible problems with the transponder in the Honeywell Primus equipped Legacy, here are some links discussing the issue.
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/publi...top_press.html
http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/Certifica...Honey_XPDR.pdf
link
To summarize, it appears this rather serious problem has been corrected with a software upgrade, and since this particular Legacy was brand new (i.e. the latest software), I doubt that it had this particular problem.
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/publi...top_press.html
http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/Certifica...Honey_XPDR.pdf
link
To summarize, it appears this rather serious problem has been corrected with a software upgrade, and since this particular Legacy was brand new (i.e. the latest software), I doubt that it had this particular problem.
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Ernest Gann wrote his novel "Band of Brothers" based on this accident in Taiwan. In the novel, the captain was jailed for "intentionally crashing" his 727. I cannot say whether that was true in the real case.
But we imprison motorists, lorry drivers etc. for negligent homicide when their action/inaction causes a fatal accident. Should pilots be exempt?
But we imprison motorists, lorry drivers etc. for negligent homicide when their action/inaction causes a fatal accident. Should pilots be exempt?
Closer to home, what of the case of the pilot(s) of the Swissair DC-8 overrun at Athens ? I forget exactly, but either one pilot was jailed by the Greeks, or only escaped jail via a diplomatic solution, despite a ditch in the overrun area which had never been filled. Willing to be corrected here if wrong.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0727-0&lang=en
However returning to the Brazilian recent Crash, Yesterday some Brazilian Media was reporting a very disturbing new(Wich to be honest i cannot affirm if its still a rumour, or not).
Some said those Black Boxes were in such horrible state, that cannot be used, read, heard, etc...
(they didnt refer if was both, only CVR or FDR)But here is the Pic, and take your conclusions »»»
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...6220013,00.jpg
http://www.dac.gov.br/salanoticias/vooGol15.asp
And now a much more damaged one, from another crash, but wich worked perfectly »»»
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...-ntsb-990a.jpg
Could be the fact that ANAC(Brazilian Civil Aviation) are trying to Hidden Something...!!!???
Cheers
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Friend that knows Mr. Paladino, tells me the guy used to fly A300s for AA and that he was always a good man to work along side of.
Now, not that commercial operators are any less responsible, but I highly doubt that a former AA pilot would even think about changing FL or turning off the transponder. I think that spotty radar coverage is what they should be looking at.
Doesn't the FDR on an Embraer record the transponder's status ?
Now, not that commercial operators are any less responsible, but I highly doubt that a former AA pilot would even think about changing FL or turning off the transponder. I think that spotty radar coverage is what they should be looking at.
Doesn't the FDR on an Embraer record the transponder's status ?
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The speculation is wa-a-ay too much, media-based ..
I have never seen so much lurid speculation, and use of "media reports", to try to come to a conclusion about this collision, in a long time.
The news media, report news, in a manner that sells their paper or website .. the accuracy of their reports is on the bottom of the list of their requirements .. and at the top,is the use of lurid wording, and extreme speculation, without any basis in fact-finding or accurate research ..
Re the "black boxes" .. or flight data recorders, and cockpit voice recorders .. as they should be more precisely termed ..
They are designed to withstand virtually all aspects of potential destruction in even the worst type of severe crash .. and since tape devices have given way to solid state devices, the info is even more recoverable ..
A pic of a dented outer casing, is enough to send the media into a feeding frenzy of speculation, that the "black boxes" are damaged to the point of not yielding adequate info .. when the pic shows a "black box" in relatively pristine condition.
They are designed to withstand salt water for 30 days .. extreme pressures .. and extreme temperatures .. that are beyond the maximum found in any known aircraft crash.
Definitive description of FDR's and CVR's .. note the CSMU design parameters!!! .. http://travel.howstuffworks.com/black-box6.htm
The recovery of the info from these recorders will reveal everything that is needed to come to a satisfactory conclusion of the collision causes .. but it is a painstaking process that takes months.
I will however, hazard, a moderately-educated guess, at this point, on the collision causes .. remembering that all those involved, are/were professionals .. and we owe it to them, the recognition that they carried out their jobs with commensurate skill ..
1. It is highly likely, that a simple, faulty wiring connection, or installation, caused the transponder to fail intermittently. Despite testing, intermittent electrical faults are always likely to appear, even in new equipment ..
They are the most difficult to find .. and that which causes the greatest fury amongst electricians .. are intermittent faults - usually associated with connectors.
I am not aware of any back-up systems in transponder wiring.
2. The incorrect flight level may have been due to an intermittent radio fault, associated with the transponder wiring. This would lead to missed communications, and failure to adjust FL's accordingly.
3. There is little doubt that contact between the aircraft took place, and that pilots of both planes sighted each other, and took evasive action at the last few seconds.
At a closing speed of 240 m/sec, even in clear conditions, you don't have a lot of decision time up your sleeve .. by the time you sight a shape headed your way .. put the brain in gear .. weigh up evasive action (up, down, or bank?) .. and action that evasive move ..
That shape, headed your way, increases in size and closeness, at an astonishing rate .. when the closing speed is supersonic speed.
4. It appears that both pilots banked, causing wing to wing contact .. and the critical point, is just what was hit on the 737-800, to make it spiral out of control and break up in mid air .. as the wreckage pics clearly indicate.
As previously pointed out, even a small portion of winglet can cause enormous destruction to a critical control component, due to the impact speed.
It's not unlikely that any one of a dozen wing components was damaged enough, to render control impossible .. and once that point is passed, we all know the inevitable result.
I would suggest that all of these pilots are/were professionals, and carried out their duties in that manner .. but a sequence of minor mechanical failures compounded to create damage that resulted in a horrendous result.
Such are the frailties of our human-based engineering .. that we can build many fail-safe devices .. but minor errors can still creep in .. compound .. and result in major disaster.
The news media, report news, in a manner that sells their paper or website .. the accuracy of their reports is on the bottom of the list of their requirements .. and at the top,is the use of lurid wording, and extreme speculation, without any basis in fact-finding or accurate research ..
Re the "black boxes" .. or flight data recorders, and cockpit voice recorders .. as they should be more precisely termed ..
They are designed to withstand virtually all aspects of potential destruction in even the worst type of severe crash .. and since tape devices have given way to solid state devices, the info is even more recoverable ..
A pic of a dented outer casing, is enough to send the media into a feeding frenzy of speculation, that the "black boxes" are damaged to the point of not yielding adequate info .. when the pic shows a "black box" in relatively pristine condition.
They are designed to withstand salt water for 30 days .. extreme pressures .. and extreme temperatures .. that are beyond the maximum found in any known aircraft crash.
Definitive description of FDR's and CVR's .. note the CSMU design parameters!!! .. http://travel.howstuffworks.com/black-box6.htm
The recovery of the info from these recorders will reveal everything that is needed to come to a satisfactory conclusion of the collision causes .. but it is a painstaking process that takes months.
I will however, hazard, a moderately-educated guess, at this point, on the collision causes .. remembering that all those involved, are/were professionals .. and we owe it to them, the recognition that they carried out their jobs with commensurate skill ..
1. It is highly likely, that a simple, faulty wiring connection, or installation, caused the transponder to fail intermittently. Despite testing, intermittent electrical faults are always likely to appear, even in new equipment ..
They are the most difficult to find .. and that which causes the greatest fury amongst electricians .. are intermittent faults - usually associated with connectors.
I am not aware of any back-up systems in transponder wiring.
2. The incorrect flight level may have been due to an intermittent radio fault, associated with the transponder wiring. This would lead to missed communications, and failure to adjust FL's accordingly.
3. There is little doubt that contact between the aircraft took place, and that pilots of both planes sighted each other, and took evasive action at the last few seconds.
At a closing speed of 240 m/sec, even in clear conditions, you don't have a lot of decision time up your sleeve .. by the time you sight a shape headed your way .. put the brain in gear .. weigh up evasive action (up, down, or bank?) .. and action that evasive move ..
That shape, headed your way, increases in size and closeness, at an astonishing rate .. when the closing speed is supersonic speed.
4. It appears that both pilots banked, causing wing to wing contact .. and the critical point, is just what was hit on the 737-800, to make it spiral out of control and break up in mid air .. as the wreckage pics clearly indicate.
As previously pointed out, even a small portion of winglet can cause enormous destruction to a critical control component, due to the impact speed.
It's not unlikely that any one of a dozen wing components was damaged enough, to render control impossible .. and once that point is passed, we all know the inevitable result.
I would suggest that all of these pilots are/were professionals, and carried out their duties in that manner .. but a sequence of minor mechanical failures compounded to create damage that resulted in a horrendous result.
Such are the frailties of our human-based engineering .. that we can build many fail-safe devices .. but minor errors can still creep in .. compound .. and result in major disaster.
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i think the pilots have some control of the 737
because of the photograph , the wing section is in pretty good shape compare to the austral fall in 1997 in uruguay that the biggest piece found was of 2 inches , the similarity of both is the fall from almost same flight levels , its my opinion, as you can apreciate the ldg gear is also down, but as i said before please do not judge , lets wait fot the cvr and the fdr best regards , have safe flights
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reports indicate that the pilots of legacy jet DENY turning off transponder.
and FWIW
in january of 2002, a Delta airlines MD88 had a transponder failure which triggered interception by F16s.
...
interesting note mentioning EKG's "BAnd of brothers". To spoil the ending, it was later found out that the crash was caused by a radio signal interfering with an NDB station, showing station passage prior to actual passage.
---
and FWIW
in january of 2002, a Delta airlines MD88 had a transponder failure which triggered interception by F16s.
...
interesting note mentioning EKG's "BAnd of brothers". To spoil the ending, it was later found out that the crash was caused by a radio signal interfering with an NDB station, showing station passage prior to actual passage.
---