UK Police helicopter budget cuts
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
ShyTQ,
I guess it would have been the Thames Valley Squirrel G-JORR out of RAF Abingdon.
The first police helicopters
Maybe as the firearms team were 40 miles away at the time, 'the Puma' had something to do with that
I guess it would have been the Thames Valley Squirrel G-JORR out of RAF Abingdon.
The first police helicopters
Maybe as the firearms team were 40 miles away at the time, 'the Puma' had something to do with that
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North Yorkshire.
'tis indeed an interesting situation.!
NYP have had a cosy arrangement with the boys from Leconfield over the years. Deploying mil a/c to many jobs that police cabs go to everywhere else in the world.
I seem to remember hearing that the NYP bill from NPAS was going to be pathetically low due to the "formula" that NPAS employ to do the costings. (I believe it's based on existing hours flown).
So the first years bill will be low. However, I wonder what the 2nd and 3rd years bills will be. ?
Does anyone know what NYPs first year bill is ?
And that's a brilliant scenario isn't it. South Yorks providing cover to NPAS at a £1500/hour. If that happens I do believe I will actually LMAO. !
NYP have had a cosy arrangement with the boys from Leconfield over the years. Deploying mil a/c to many jobs that police cabs go to everywhere else in the world.
I seem to remember hearing that the NYP bill from NPAS was going to be pathetically low due to the "formula" that NPAS employ to do the costings. (I believe it's based on existing hours flown).
So the first years bill will be low. However, I wonder what the 2nd and 3rd years bills will be. ?
Does anyone know what NYPs first year bill is ?
And that's a brilliant scenario isn't it. South Yorks providing cover to NPAS at a £1500/hour. If that happens I do believe I will actually LMAO. !
"A saving of £4000 per year"
Wow, now that is a major cost cutting evolution.
Have they actually drilled down to that microscopic level of costs: approx 4hrs flying???
Deadline: April 2012. Time remaining: 6 months. Progress made with NPAS infrastructure: 0. A big fat zero:
No idea on synergies as regions combine. No plans on what to do with regional Chief Pilots, UEO's. No idea on ratio of crews to shift patterns. No formal initiatives on proactive Vs reactive flights. No pilots/observers/engineers advising.
NPAS is developing the future of UK police Air Support and it doesn't have any aviation advisors?
6 months and ticking.................................................
Yet again, the police politicians have re-invented the wheel, only this time, in the interest of cost cutting, they have taken away one too many spokes.
Wow, now that is a major cost cutting evolution.Have they actually drilled down to that microscopic level of costs: approx 4hrs flying???
Deadline: April 2012. Time remaining: 6 months. Progress made with NPAS infrastructure: 0. A big fat zero:
No idea on synergies as regions combine. No plans on what to do with regional Chief Pilots, UEO's. No idea on ratio of crews to shift patterns. No formal initiatives on proactive Vs reactive flights. No pilots/observers/engineers advising.
NPAS is developing the future of UK police Air Support and it doesn't have any aviation advisors?
6 months and ticking.................................................
Yet again, the police politicians have re-invented the wheel, only this time, in the interest of cost cutting, they have taken away one too many spokes.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Wakefield to York in 13 minutes, they must have one of those special helicopters there!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
6 months and ticking.................................................
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YOU MUST WATCH THIS >>>>
Fine People of PPRUNE, you MUST see this.......
http://southyorks.public-i.tv/core/p...eractive/65106
As much fun as a punch and judy show but do not miss it, pass it on to your own Police Authorities...Save it for your grand children.
In the Grey corner you have the senior officers prompoting the party line - You must join cos it will save money.
In the Black corner you have the two representatives of NPAS, never heard of and no aviation experience WHATSOEVER, taking the flat-fish approach to answering questions, oops sorry that's a Flounder....
In the Blue corner you have the Authority members that represent real breathing people, yes, that's the ones the scrotes rob frequently.
Don't miss Kash Walayat OBE and pay special attention to Cllr John Parkinson and worship John McHale who believes NPAS is 'like a pin in the snow'....Beautiful.
It's one hour, twenty minutes of democracy in action, ney THE BIG SOCIETY in action even. However, BIG WARNING:
The NPAS aim under the surface is to replace helicopters with fixed wing to give a QUICKER and CHEAPER service!!
Now didn't the ASU's go through this evolution over the past 20 years or more? I am sure all those cheap fixed wings got replaced for a reason? Didn't they or was it that the constabularies had that much money they threw it at air ops..I think not.
Anyway, the Blue corner won by a knock-out, 7-1 one abstention.
This may be a new concept for NPAS - putting the service to the community first...............Don't miss it..
http://southyorks.public-i.tv/core/p...eractive/65106
As much fun as a punch and judy show but do not miss it, pass it on to your own Police Authorities...Save it for your grand children.
In the Grey corner you have the senior officers prompoting the party line - You must join cos it will save money.
In the Black corner you have the two representatives of NPAS, never heard of and no aviation experience WHATSOEVER, taking the flat-fish approach to answering questions, oops sorry that's a Flounder....
In the Blue corner you have the Authority members that represent real breathing people, yes, that's the ones the scrotes rob frequently.
Don't miss Kash Walayat OBE and pay special attention to Cllr John Parkinson and worship John McHale who believes NPAS is 'like a pin in the snow'....Beautiful.
It's one hour, twenty minutes of democracy in action, ney THE BIG SOCIETY in action even. However, BIG WARNING:
The NPAS aim under the surface is to replace helicopters with fixed wing to give a QUICKER and CHEAPER service!!
Now didn't the ASU's go through this evolution over the past 20 years or more? I am sure all those cheap fixed wings got replaced for a reason? Didn't they or was it that the constabularies had that much money they threw it at air ops..I think not.
Anyway, the Blue corner won by a knock-out, 7-1 one abstention.
This may be a new concept for NPAS - putting the service to the community first...............Don't miss it..
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coconutty - you asked
A call from a friend & a web trawl found the following in a provincial Essex newspaper:
It does raise a few questions - of course, but what would you expect!
1. It doesn't tell us who the other eight forces are?
2. When I last spoke to them, none of the three remaining units in East Anglia (soon to be 2, according to NPAS plans) work 24hrs - so not sure how round their clock is?
3. If the unit is staying, which "police staff" are likely to be made redundant?
4. Where would "extra units (note plural) for a major incident" come from if there are only 2 in the region - which I understand includes everything from North Norfolk to Dungeness!?
All this bearing in mind that the MET are unlikely to join the party, so the next aircraft, if Henlow goes, would be E.Mids, Benson, Surrey or Sussex - depending on incident location!! Complete madness?
5. Any news on the Southend move - apart from previous rumours on this forum?
Looks like the "spin" continues in stiletto-land too!
. . . how many Police Authorities have "signed up" to NPAS?
Essex: Police opt into national air service Essex Police will become part of a national air service to save hundreds of thousands of pounds.
The Essex Police Authority, along with at least eight other forces, have signed up to the National Police Air Service which is set to launch on April 1 next year.
Benefits included round the clock access to air support every day of the year and extra units if there is a major incident but there is expected to be some police staff redundancies.
Supt. Iain Logan said: “Certainly, Essex Police is very much part of the national police air service agreement.”
There were talks of transferring the helicopter to Southend Airport, which would mean an extra eight minute flight time to reach the north of the county, but officials stressed the nearest helicopter at the time will attend.
The Essex Police Authority, along with at least eight other forces, have signed up to the National Police Air Service which is set to launch on April 1 next year.
Benefits included round the clock access to air support every day of the year and extra units if there is a major incident but there is expected to be some police staff redundancies.
Supt. Iain Logan said: “Certainly, Essex Police is very much part of the national police air service agreement.”
There were talks of transferring the helicopter to Southend Airport, which would mean an extra eight minute flight time to reach the north of the county, but officials stressed the nearest helicopter at the time will attend.
1. It doesn't tell us who the other eight forces are?
2. When I last spoke to them, none of the three remaining units in East Anglia (soon to be 2, according to NPAS plans) work 24hrs - so not sure how round their clock is?
3. If the unit is staying, which "police staff" are likely to be made redundant?
4. Where would "extra units (note plural) for a major incident" come from if there are only 2 in the region - which I understand includes everything from North Norfolk to Dungeness!?
All this bearing in mind that the MET are unlikely to join the party, so the next aircraft, if Henlow goes, would be E.Mids, Benson, Surrey or Sussex - depending on incident location!! Complete madness?
5. Any news on the Southend move - apart from previous rumours on this forum?
Looks like the "spin" continues in stiletto-land too!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
And the saga continues...
Fear lives would be put at risk by moving police helicopter to Birmingham - Cardiff news - CardiffOnline - WalesOnline
Fear lives would be put at risk by moving police helicopter to Birmingham
by Clare Hutchinson, South Wales Echo
Sep 28 2011
LIVES could be put at risk by plans to relocate a replacement police helicopter 80 miles away in Birmingham, the South Wales Police Authority has warned.
At the moment, both the regular and replacement helicopters used by South Wales Police are based at St Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan – which is five minutes by helicopter from Cardiff city centre.
But under the proposed National Police Air Service (NPAS), it is feared the nearest replacement helicopter would be based 40 minutes away in Birmingham.
The new nationwide air support agency would see 23 aircraft spread across 20 bases in England and Wales, with three spare helicopters on standby, producing savings of £15.27m.
But authority councillors and independent members have raised serious doubts about the scheme’s financial viability, as well as its potential to increase response times.
In a report, Assistant Chief Constable of South Wales Police, Nick Croft, said it was “highly unlikely” a replacement helicopter would travel from Birmingham to South Wales, due to the distance and the likelihood of it being called out to emergencies closer to home.
South Wales Police’s contract with private firm Bond Air Services, which is due to end in 2015, ensures a replacement helicopter is always available if the regular one is grounded.
Councillor Tim Davies, of the South Wales Police Authority, said: “Helicopters are very fragile machines and they have to have frequent maintenance and sometimes that can take a very long time, which would mean a relief helicopter would probably have to come from Birmingham.
“There was a recent example of a 13-year-old boy who was stuck in a bog in Tonyrefail as darkness fell and without the quick response of the Air Support Unit things could have been much worse.”
He said the business case for the proposal was also “substantially lacking” in detail. At the meeting members refused to support the “overall strategic direction” of the proposal, opting to ask for more details first. Chief Constable Alex Marshall said the organisation was working with the Welsh forces to “provide the reassurance they are seeking”.
by Clare Hutchinson, South Wales Echo
Sep 28 2011
LIVES could be put at risk by plans to relocate a replacement police helicopter 80 miles away in Birmingham, the South Wales Police Authority has warned.
At the moment, both the regular and replacement helicopters used by South Wales Police are based at St Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan – which is five minutes by helicopter from Cardiff city centre.
But under the proposed National Police Air Service (NPAS), it is feared the nearest replacement helicopter would be based 40 minutes away in Birmingham.
The new nationwide air support agency would see 23 aircraft spread across 20 bases in England and Wales, with three spare helicopters on standby, producing savings of £15.27m.
But authority councillors and independent members have raised serious doubts about the scheme’s financial viability, as well as its potential to increase response times.
In a report, Assistant Chief Constable of South Wales Police, Nick Croft, said it was “highly unlikely” a replacement helicopter would travel from Birmingham to South Wales, due to the distance and the likelihood of it being called out to emergencies closer to home.
South Wales Police’s contract with private firm Bond Air Services, which is due to end in 2015, ensures a replacement helicopter is always available if the regular one is grounded.
Councillor Tim Davies, of the South Wales Police Authority, said: “Helicopters are very fragile machines and they have to have frequent maintenance and sometimes that can take a very long time, which would mean a relief helicopter would probably have to come from Birmingham.
“There was a recent example of a 13-year-old boy who was stuck in a bog in Tonyrefail as darkness fell and without the quick response of the Air Support Unit things could have been much worse.”
He said the business case for the proposal was also “substantially lacking” in detail. At the meeting members refused to support the “overall strategic direction” of the proposal, opting to ask for more details first. Chief Constable Alex Marshall said the organisation was working with the Welsh forces to “provide the reassurance they are seeking”.
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Just finished watching the complete S.Yorks P.A. meeting video - Fascinating !
( I liked the bit where NPAS agreed that anyone could pull out -
up to the point of actually signing a contract amd money changing hands
)
One of the BIG issues that comes out of the S.Yorks decision, is that the NPAS Rep's clearly stated that the funding model they were bandying about
( not that many details appear to have been provided to confirm any of the figures or savings ), are based on all Police Authorites joining NPAS,
and that if some did not join up, this would increase the cost to those that did
So now, all those ( 10 or so ? ) P.A's that have signed up "in principle" must surely need to know what these increased costs will be,
for them to re-consider their previous "in principle" decision to join
What happens if another P.A. ( or more ) decide not to join ?
At what point do those cost increases to the remaining members result in there being NO cost savings at all ?
What a mess !
( I liked the bit where NPAS agreed that anyone could pull out -
up to the point of actually signing a contract amd money changing hands
)One of the BIG issues that comes out of the S.Yorks decision, is that the NPAS Rep's clearly stated that the funding model they were bandying about
( not that many details appear to have been provided to confirm any of the figures or savings ), are based on all Police Authorites joining NPAS,
and that if some did not join up, this would increase the cost to those that did
So now, all those ( 10 or so ? ) P.A's that have signed up "in principle" must surely need to know what these increased costs will be,
for them to re-consider their previous "in principle" decision to join
What happens if another P.A. ( or more ) decide not to join ?
At what point do those cost increases to the remaining members result in there being NO cost savings at all ?
What a mess !
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D'oh
Its seem just a little too obvious that if not everyone joins then the contribution will need to be re-calculated.
BUT you have to remember that if, for instance, S Yorkshire don't join the national scheme - then the costs of South Yorks will fall just to South Yorkshire - and not be added to the national bill. So the 'members' making the contributions falls by one, but the overall total the remaining members have to raise is £1.67m less (according to this thread).
So really it depends on which police authority you are talking about but, it seems to me, that for SY the remaining 40 or so members should make a saving.
I love this thread, as much as I want to stay away it gives me some form of weird S_M pleasure; just off to flaggelate myself.
BUT you have to remember that if, for instance, S Yorkshire don't join the national scheme - then the costs of South Yorks will fall just to South Yorkshire - and not be added to the national bill. So the 'members' making the contributions falls by one, but the overall total the remaining members have to raise is £1.67m less (according to this thread).
So really it depends on which police authority you are talking about but, it seems to me, that for SY the remaining 40 or so members should make a saving.
I love this thread, as much as I want to stay away it gives me some form of weird S_M pleasure; just off to flaggelate myself.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
BUT you have to remember that if, for instance, S Yorkshire don't join the national scheme - then the costs of South Yorks will fall just to South Yorkshire - and not be added to the national bill. So the 'members' making the contributions falls by one, but the overall total the remaining members have to raise is £1.67m less (according to this thread).
So what is the optimum number of authorites that need to FULLY sign up to NPAS in order to make the greatest savings for the member authorities?
What if only one authority signed up....?
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D'oh
If only one signed up - then don't you have the current situation where everyone pays for their own?
I get the impression that the issue here is that there are long term savings to be had by common equipment, platforms etc that do not directly affect operations ie helicopter numbers - a more logical approach but medium/long term & which wont happen if people do not manage somehow to join up and get on with it.
Given the state of the economy, I cant see this being the only round of cuts so to me this about getting ready to delivering the next round of 'efficency savings' in a better way than just cuttings numbers or flying hours - as is required in this round because of the time allowed.
I get the impression that the issue here is that there are long term savings to be had by common equipment, platforms etc that do not directly affect operations ie helicopter numbers - a more logical approach but medium/long term & which wont happen if people do not manage somehow to join up and get on with it.
Given the state of the economy, I cant see this being the only round of cuts so to me this about getting ready to delivering the next round of 'efficency savings' in a better way than just cuttings numbers or flying hours - as is required in this round because of the time allowed.
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Have I got this right ? ....
There's also the consideration that the NPAS participants will also contribute an additional sum towards the NPAS aircraft fleet replacement program,
to cater for when the airframes become due for replacement.
Now that S.Yorks have pulled out ( and their aircraft isn't now being binned - they are planning their own finances for future replacement ),
it's one less contributor to NPAS so those remaining would have to stump up proportionally more for the aircraft replacements ?
I did also like the question ( which didn't get answered ) ...
"So if our Police Staff pilots are "Tupe'd" across to NPAS, and our aircraft is going - What are they going to fly ?"
There's also the consideration that the NPAS participants will also contribute an additional sum towards the NPAS aircraft fleet replacement program,
to cater for when the airframes become due for replacement.
Now that S.Yorks have pulled out ( and their aircraft isn't now being binned - they are planning their own finances for future replacement ),
it's one less contributor to NPAS so those remaining would have to stump up proportionally more for the aircraft replacements ?
I did also like the question ( which didn't get answered ) ...
"So if our Police Staff pilots are "Tupe'd" across to NPAS, and our aircraft is going - What are they going to fly ?"
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D'oh
Obviously someone has to buy or lease aircraft - on their own, in consortia or as part of NPAS.
Same rules. One less member in the club but also one less aircraft to raise capital for (or revenue to lease)
But SY will now have to pay 100% for their aircraft, whereas the rest have to pay for the remaining 24 or whatever, between the remaining 40 members or so.
Also I doubt that SY will get the HO grant of 40% as in the past! which might be available to those more amenable to NPAS.
So by my maths SY will be paying (much) more than proportionatley everyone else. Not to mention not being able to cut a better deal by being part of a bigger purchase, support arrangement etc.
I bet the authority didn't mention that - at least it didn't make it into the local newspapers - might be embarrassing eh...
Same rules. One less member in the club but also one less aircraft to raise capital for (or revenue to lease)
But SY will now have to pay 100% for their aircraft, whereas the rest have to pay for the remaining 24 or whatever, between the remaining 40 members or so.
Also I doubt that SY will get the HO grant of 40% as in the past! which might be available to those more amenable to NPAS.
So by my maths SY will be paying (much) more than proportionatley everyone else. Not to mention not being able to cut a better deal by being part of a bigger purchase, support arrangement etc.
I bet the authority didn't mention that - at least it didn't make it into the local newspapers - might be embarrassing eh...
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well being part of NPAS our unit will be able to take advantage of the extra procurement power of the national organisation.. So we can look forward to a shiny new a/c and all the latest role equipment..
Although...
We will only get the a/c that NPAS decide we are going to have, only get the role equipment that NPAS decide to buy, and only get them when NPAS decide we can have it.!
And so will begin the politics, the jockying for position with other units, and the suspicion around how the contracts get awarded !!
excellent
Although...
We will only get the a/c that NPAS decide we are going to have, only get the role equipment that NPAS decide to buy, and only get them when NPAS decide we can have it.!
And so will begin the politics, the jockying for position with other units, and the suspicion around how the contracts get awarded !!
excellent
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D'oh Berpie
Dear Berpie
You don't seem to have NB'd the fact that the fine councillors of SYO want to keep a 'gold standard' of service to the public! They did - their senior officers didn't..And, they are happy to pay for it, because it is a valued service - a deterrent, and that is one of the oaths isn't it?
You are looking at a house of cards because:
It's a good idea but it was completely screwed up by not bringing the aviation professionals on board from the beginning. There will be an NPAS eventually, it will be done properly and the first priority is to the public not to your own career path cos U saved a buck here and there...
The two voices from NPAS completely let NPAS down. It was embarrassing to watch.
SYO
SE Wales
Next?
You don't seem to have NB'd the fact that the fine councillors of SYO want to keep a 'gold standard' of service to the public! They did - their senior officers didn't..And, they are happy to pay for it, because it is a valued service - a deterrent, and that is one of the oaths isn't it?
You are looking at a house of cards because:
It's a good idea but it was completely screwed up by not bringing the aviation professionals on board from the beginning. There will be an NPAS eventually, it will be done properly and the first priority is to the public not to your own career path cos U saved a buck here and there...
The two voices from NPAS completely let NPAS down. It was embarrassing to watch.
SYO
SE Wales
Next?
berty
Is that not slightly flawed? The SY machine/base was not due to be retained and therefore there is no change in the number of NPAS aircraft merely the number of authorities expected to pay for them.
One less member in the club but also one less aircraft to raise capital for
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Money talks & Dave.
Police Authorities depend on Home Office cash, so with Dave the rave saying this, I think the new person who replaces all of the authority members in each force will follow Dave's lead.
And I quote:
The prime minister, David Cameron, said: “By replacing invisible police authorities with directly elected police and crime commissioners, we can forge a direct link between the police and the public.”
Dave said it here:
Police reform plans outlined
If I'm not mistaken Dave wants NPAS to be in place asap. Woe betide any force who doesnt toe the Dave line, as they may find that their next force budget is cut again.
So if one of the many fine police authority members who are currently in post don't get the new SYP commisionaire post, what happens then? Does the new man or woman in charge holding the bank notes do as Dave says or not? I think we all know the answer.......well at least Dave does for the next few years.
Its been a quiet night shift, but dont tell Dave
And I quote:
The prime minister, David Cameron, said: “By replacing invisible police authorities with directly elected police and crime commissioners, we can forge a direct link between the police and the public.”
Dave said it here:
Police reform plans outlined
If I'm not mistaken Dave wants NPAS to be in place asap. Woe betide any force who doesnt toe the Dave line, as they may find that their next force budget is cut again.
So if one of the many fine police authority members who are currently in post don't get the new SYP commisionaire post, what happens then? Does the new man or woman in charge holding the bank notes do as Dave says or not? I think we all know the answer.......well at least Dave does for the next few years.
Its been a quiet night shift, but dont tell Dave
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Gas Gen - thanks for your SYP Police Authority meeting, very interesting 
berty - I think you'll find that it was quite clearly stated in the meeting that SYP would not receive the 40% HO grant, when they look at replacing their machine, so the Authority Members were aware of that. It's also why they were arguing that instead of paying £340k into the NPAS hull replacement scheme, they calculated that at £5m capital, less £1.5 trade in, they'd need to build their own fund of £3.5m over 10 years, or £350k per year, to get their own aircraft, 100% funded by themselves. (From what I saw/heard, the Member discussing it didn't quite get to these figs, but that is what he was trying to say)
It would seem a valid argument for any Authority, and even if they were to put a little more into the pot for inflation &/or reduced residual value, it wouldn't come out at much more than the NPAS figure.
One problem would be that, if they want something different from the masses (Gold standard), it'll probaly cost more than the bulk deal - - but if they were able to join in with the NPAS deal, which the manufacturers would surely be happy with, and NPAS (who should be representing the taxpayer) should not disallow, they'll get a very adequate machine at a sensible price.
It rather depends on your view of how NPAS regard themselves as far as their "responsibility to the taxpayer" goes, and whether there'd be political pressure to shut a "rogue" Authority out of negotiations. Whether they like it or not, that's what NPAS there to do, be responsible with our money, rather than empire building! Personally, I have my concerns.
Blue Thunder - you raise another valid point, re Dave & directly elected comissioners. A complete cluster-f*** IMHO. The current system of (mostly) elected local Authority Members has shown, by SYP's fine example, to work very well in their decision to help the Police serve the public in the area they represent. They should be heralded as having stood up for the law-abiding majority, most of whom will have to actually pay for the service of finding the vulnerable or slapping down the minority of scallys!
berty - I think you'll find that it was quite clearly stated in the meeting that SYP would not receive the 40% HO grant, when they look at replacing their machine, so the Authority Members were aware of that. It's also why they were arguing that instead of paying £340k into the NPAS hull replacement scheme, they calculated that at £5m capital, less £1.5 trade in, they'd need to build their own fund of £3.5m over 10 years, or £350k per year, to get their own aircraft, 100% funded by themselves. (From what I saw/heard, the Member discussing it didn't quite get to these figs, but that is what he was trying to say)
It would seem a valid argument for any Authority, and even if they were to put a little more into the pot for inflation &/or reduced residual value, it wouldn't come out at much more than the NPAS figure.
One problem would be that, if they want something different from the masses (Gold standard), it'll probaly cost more than the bulk deal - - but if they were able to join in with the NPAS deal, which the manufacturers would surely be happy with, and NPAS (who should be representing the taxpayer) should not disallow, they'll get a very adequate machine at a sensible price.
It rather depends on your view of how NPAS regard themselves as far as their "responsibility to the taxpayer" goes, and whether there'd be political pressure to shut a "rogue" Authority out of negotiations. Whether they like it or not, that's what NPAS there to do, be responsible with our money, rather than empire building! Personally, I have my concerns.
Blue Thunder - you raise another valid point, re Dave & directly elected comissioners. A complete cluster-f*** IMHO. The current system of (mostly) elected local Authority Members has shown, by SYP's fine example, to work very well in their decision to help the Police serve the public in the area they represent. They should be heralded
as having stood up for the law-abiding majority, most of whom will have to actually pay for the service of finding the vulnerable or slapping down the minority of scallys!