PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rotorheads (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads-23/)
-   -   UK Police helicopter budget cuts (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/397650-uk-police-helicopter-budget-cuts.html)

vital actions 2nd Dec 2009 17:09

UK Police helicopter budget cuts
 
Johnson announces police budget cuts

2 December, 2009
Police forces in England and Wales will have to make annual savings of £545m.

The Home Secretary Alan Johnson has published a White Paper which anticipates that the police helicopter fleet will be reduced by a fifth, and overtime cut by £70m a year within four years.
Forces will pool forensic work and procurement of uniforms and patrol cars and be given incentives to merge.
Ministers hope the measures will save £545m year by 2014.
Meanwhile, the government’s red tape tsar says police officers are spending no more time on the beat now than they were two years ago.
Jan Berry, the former chairman of the Police Federation, said patrol officers told her problems with bureaucracy might even have got worse.
Ms Berry pointed to a string of problems with Home Office efforts to keep officers out on the streets.
Many of the 27,000 portable hand held computers given out in an attempt to keep them away from their desks are ineffective because they lack the right programs, she said.




Johnson announces police budget cuts | News | Local Government Chronicle

Senior Pilot 2nd Dec 2009 17:13

More from the Daily Telegraph


Police should patrol alone to save money
Officers should patrol alone to help save more than £500 million a year from police budgets, Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, said.


By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor
Published: 4:15PM GMT 02 Dec 2009

The number of police helicopters will also be cut by a fifth while overtime and back room staff will be slashed, the Policing White Paper revealed.

The measures sparked fresh fears among senior officers than police numbers could eventually fall as a result of the drive to cut costs.

The Home Office document on police reform, Protecting the Public, said the initiatives could lead to annual savings of £545 million by 2014, starting with a saving of £100 million next year.

The paper said "single patrols can be useful in engaging communities" but also referred to it as increasing "efficient and effective deployment".

Earlier this year, Sir Paul Stephenson, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, ordered his officers to walk the beat on their own, rather than in pairs, in a return to more traditional policing.

Other measures will see the police helicopter fleet reduce from 33 to 26, and a cut in overtime of £70 million a year within four years. Forces will pool forensic work and procurement of uniforms and patrol cars and be given incentives to merge.

A reduction in back room staff would also save £75 million a year by 2013.

Mr Johnson insisted front line policing remained a priority, adding: "We didn't get to this level of 16,000 more police officers and the introduction of PCSOs for the first time only to see that evaporate.

"In straightened economic times you should be looking at how you can make savings, not cuts and how you can dedicate more resources to the front line."

But Chief Superintendent Ian Johnston QPM, President of the Police Superintendents’ Association, said: ‘We are broadly supportive of the measures featured in this document although we also harbour some serious fears about certain aspects.

"The Service needs to know just what Home Office officials consider to be ‘back-office’ and at what stage police officer numbers and significant numbers of police staff jobs will be threatened in order to achieve such swingeing cuts."

Paul McKeever, chairman of the Police Federation, said: "It is important that any cuts do not impinge on front line policing services or public safety.

"The public cannot pay the price of political decision-making.

And Sir Hugh Orde, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), warned: "Overtime reflects the realities of modern policing, including its unpredictability.

"The police service is a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week organisation and has to be able to respond flexibly to any event or crime at any time."
I thought Police helicopters are part of "Front Line Policing" :confused:

Fortyodd2 2nd Dec 2009 17:43

Yet another expensive cost cutting exercise from New Liarbore :ugh:
Why is this government so desperate to learn everything the hard way??

XXPLOD 2nd Dec 2009 17:55

Speaking as a serving police officer this will be interesting. I'm not saying the service couldn't be more efficient with procurement, but it will take more than slightly better deals on vehicles and uniforms to make £545BN savings within 5 years.

The reality is that large parts of police budgets are fixed e.g. wages & pensions. Other significant costs leave very little room for trimming without affecting frontline service delivery: vehicles, buildings, training.

Forces are already bolstering resources through recruiting more Special Constables and police staff volunteers. I see radical workforce modernisation as the only way in which these sort of savings will be met. E.g. the model in Surrey of having what in effect are PCSOs within response policing teams. We'll see more civilians in CID and major crime teams.

And not forgetting this is PPRUNE - air support is definately in for a tough time. Regionalisation is the way things will go, which will almost without doubt lead to fewer airframes. This is a slippery slope - the USP of air support is rapid response within the 'golden hour' of a critical incident. If the aircraft has a 30+ minute flight to be overhead the incident, then it won't take long before people start to question the value added.

handysnaks 2nd Dec 2009 19:16

I think we've all been expecting it. It's just a question of when and who!:(

minigundiplomat 2nd Dec 2009 19:34

I bet speed cameras stay.

jayteeto 2nd Dec 2009 20:11

Dead interesting!! I have just quit Merseyside for a new horizon, partly because of the threat of our unit closing. It is more complicated than it seems here. Each force (in general terms) decides on the need for a helicopter and then allocates funding. It is ok saying that 5 helicopters will go, but no single entity is in charge of air support at the moment. There is no current way of saying, 'ok, you, you you and you are to close'. It sounds like we lock 43 Chief Cons in a room and when they decide who is to go, they will produce coloured smoke from a chimney and we can let them out!!

ShyTorque 2nd Dec 2009 20:19

Some made themselves famous by introducing Police aviation, by proving it could save man-hours and money. Now someone else is to try to save money by getting rid?

What goes around will come around; but I reckon it will be a brave CC who is first in the line to reduce the effectiveness of his own force when the only way to get it back is to increase other manpower (and womanpower) at a time when they are proposing to shed police numbers and use more contractors (read civilians) instead.

= Boom time for crime!

Sky Sports 2nd Dec 2009 20:41

5 aircraft to go? Can't see it myself. No C.C. is going to agree to a smaller train set without a massive fight.

Fortyodd2 2nd Dec 2009 21:01

"a brave CC"

What's one of them?? Once they get past Inspector, the majority turn into spineless politicians hence the current crop of managers where once there were leaders.

"= Boom time for crime!"

When you are up to your @rse in alligators it will be difficult to remind yourself that the original task was to drain the swamp.

Skidkid 2nd Dec 2009 21:58

Let's bring in the elected Sheriffs.

Hopefully they will publicly fight the case for their train set before we vote them out again!

mickjoebill 2nd Dec 2009 23:09

report into helicopter effectiveness in fighting crime
 

Some made themselves famous by introducing Police aviation, by proving it could save man-hours and money.
There doesn't seem to be conclusive evidence that police helicopters save money.
Paul Whitehead's 2001 report, from Ontario University
"The Eye in the Sky,Evaluation of Police Helicopter Patrols" is worth a read, it revisits past research.

Paul's stated objectives were;
"1) to evaluate whether helicopter patrols have a suppression effect on the incidence of various
types of crime and occurrences (residential break and enter, commercial break and enter, auto
theft, theft from auto, robbery, property damage, trespass by night, suspicious person and
suspicious vehicle); and
2) evaluate whether a helicopter increases the operational effectiveness and/or efficiency of the police service."

To get your attention one of his conclusions states;
"The results of our quasi-experimental tests are consistent with our conclusions from the review of past research. Specifically, the available evidence does not support the view that police helicopter patrols have
an independent impact on the incidence of crime."

In general he says more research is needed, but also that the public are disposed to having police helicopters (perhaps) regardless of their efficiency or effectiveness.

In respect to UK cutbacks, politicians, more than anyone should ask, "what price the feel good factor"?



Mickjoebill

Lord Mount 3rd Dec 2009 08:27

Its all going to Hell in a handbag.

I'm just glad I can retire from the job in 200 days.


LM

ShyTorque 3rd Dec 2009 09:06

Mickjoebill,

I don't see how a study from Canada can be considered directly relevant to UK, particularly in view of the title and your highlighted conclusion.

UK police helicopters don't fly "patrols", as it's too expensive on flying hours and largely ineffective.

They are a reactive asset.

Thud_and_Blunder 3rd Dec 2009 09:09

mickjoebill,

Interesting, but which part of that response covers the cost savings to a force carrying out a large-area search for a missing child/Alzheimer's patient? A task which happens several times a week on some units. The "person"-hours saved by using a heli to cover large areas which would otherwise need large numbers of police to carry out/co-ordinate the search aren't covered by an Evaluation of Police Helicopter patrols.

Hughes500 3rd Dec 2009 09:11

Let me see, D & C 's helicopter has 2 engineers full time looking after their helicopter ( recently have to help with the air ambulance as well) Please tell me how that works, when the maintenance company I use has 2 engineers and looks after 17 helicopters, got to be some cost savings there !:suspect:

Brilliant Stuff 3rd Dec 2009 09:47

I say let the bobbies on the front line where the money should be saved, you would be amazed at the cost savings coupled with a phenomenal crime reduction .

Case in point by buying a Volvo T5 instead of a Vauxhaul Vectra the forces would save £45.000 over the working life of the car this includes all costs (fuel maintenance etc) but because the Vauxhaul is cheaper to buy by some £5000 the beancounters of course buy the Vauxhaul. My three year old would be able to work out what the right decision is.

We actually need more helicopters not less after all what's the point in turning up over scene 15 minutes after the event???

And I could go on what other areas there are you can save money but I leave that for another day.

In the end the Police is a Service not a Business.

Joe Bloggs moans at the cost of the Helicopter but when it's them or their relatives who are missing hurt or subject to crime they want everything including the kitchen sink throwing at the incident.
The double standards need realigning.

I better stop now or this might turn into a rant.

Maybe it's time to write to the MP.


Of course all of the above is my humble opinion.

zorab64 3rd Dec 2009 10:12

T&B has a valid point - how do you calculate the benefit of "clearance searching", where the aircraft can search vast open areas very quickly and efficiently, and target the ground troops to specific small areas that can't be easily searched from the air, saving masses of ground-officer time. Similarly, there's a hearts & minds, or public re-assurance, element that every effort is being made to search for a vulnerable/suicidal/violent person - although "Care in the Community" so often turns into, get the Police to find them so that we can let them go again!! :ugh:

As with any large organisation, there are invariably likely to be massive efficiency savings - the whole budget business of "using up, in March, what hasn't been used, or you'll lose it" attitude should be addressed too. Lots to be saved there, I'd opine! :ok:

bolkow 3rd Dec 2009 10:32

in my humble opinion I always did wonder about the efficiency of sending a chopper after illegal bikers, but where searches of other natures take place that would require a huge amount of land man hours I have no doubt they are indeed effiecient.

stringfellow 3rd Dec 2009 10:58

in my humble opinion what annoys me from watching the tv shows is how often the ac is dispatched..... looking for a depressed woman in a public park.... come on... it seems,, again in my humble opinion the ac is dispatched willy nilly when it should be reserved purely for incidents with clear danger to the public. wonderful service great detterent but should be used sparingly.


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:30.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.