UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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Day 2 of Shephard's Helipower, to be held at 5 Farnborough, October 20 is to include a near rerun of the Duxford event as part of its own Blue Light event.
The main change is that CC Marshall is being replaced by Supt. Richard Watson.
11.40 THE FUTURE OF POLICE AVIATION IN THE UK
Superintendent Richard Watson, Project Lead, National Police Air Service, UK
12.00 HELICOPTER EMERGENCY RESPONSE: COST EFFECTIVE OPTIONS FOR THE FUTURE
Richard Folkes OBE, UK Government Business Unit, AgustaWestland, UK
12.20 FRENCH GENDARMERIE'S AIR SUPPORT COMMAND : A GLOBAL APPROACH FOR POLICE AIR
SUPPORT
Colonel Patrice Bar, Deputy Commanding Officer, French Gendarmerie Air Service, France
The main change is that CC Marshall is being replaced by Supt. Richard Watson.
11.40 THE FUTURE OF POLICE AVIATION IN THE UK
Superintendent Richard Watson, Project Lead, National Police Air Service, UK
12.00 HELICOPTER EMERGENCY RESPONSE: COST EFFECTIVE OPTIONS FOR THE FUTURE
Richard Folkes OBE, UK Government Business Unit, AgustaWestland, UK
12.20 FRENCH GENDARMERIE'S AIR SUPPORT COMMAND : A GLOBAL APPROACH FOR POLICE AIR
SUPPORT
Colonel Patrice Bar, Deputy Commanding Officer, French Gendarmerie Air Service, France
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The same Richard Folkes that went to Max Moseley in order to improve Apache refuelling times ?
Should future Police aircraft come from Augusta Westland....
I still have some fancy dress kit left over from my days in Germany !
Should future Police aircraft come from Augusta Westland....
I still have some fancy dress kit left over from my days in Germany !
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Investment advice....Buy, Buy, Buy !!!
BBC News - AgustaWestland helicopters to shed up to 375 jobs
However, to keep management busy....;
Keep an eye out for the funny handshakes during lunch at Helitech
The Press Association: Helicopter firm to cut 375 jobs
Coming to an NPAS/Govt ASU unit near you in due course.....
££££££££££££££££££££££
However, to keep management busy....;
The firm is planning to build civil helicopters which it hopes will be used by the police, air ambulance, Coastguard and private individuals.
It recently launched the AW169 civilian helicopter which is expected to enter service in 2015.
It recently launched the AW169 civilian helicopter which is expected to enter service in 2015.
Keep an eye out for the funny handshakes during lunch at Helitech
The Press Association: Helicopter firm to cut 375 jobs
Business Secretary Vince Cable said: "The news of job losses at AgustaWestland will be upsetting for the individuals involved and the wider community in Yeovil. In July I announced £32 million of Government investment in AgustaWestland Yeovil to help introduce the civil AW169 aircraft and we hope that this will allow them to expand in the future."
££££££££££££££££££££££
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Perhaps after the South Yorkshire meeting, others have realised that it's a 'Catch 22' situation.
You don't know how much it will cost to be in it, until they know how many are going to be in it;
You're only going to be in it, if you know how much it is going to cost to be in it.
You don't know how much it will cost to be in it, until they know how many are going to be in it;
You're only going to be in it, if you know how much it is going to cost to be in it.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
To remind us of the importance of the date in Coconutty's post;
http://www.nypa.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8119&p=0
Will we know any more by Tuesday?
http://www.nypa.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8119&p=0
10.3 To deliver the operational improvements and realise the savings, a decision from Police Authorities in support of the proposal is sought by 30th September 2011.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In the meantime;
Campaign to save police helicopter - News - The Comet
Campaign to save police helicopter - News - The Comet
A CAMPAIGN to stop plans to axe the Herts and Beds police helicopter has been started on social networking site Facebook.
At the Shephard Heli-Power Conference held at FIVE, Farnborough, Hampshire on the morning of Thursday 20th. There was a repeat performance of the Helitech Presentation from NPAS and others.
This time the NPAS presentation was given by Supt. Richard Watson rather than CC Alex Marshall. Basically the same thrust, different in the detail.
Far from confirming that Police Authorities have toed the line it seems that about two-thirds have met the deadline [I have not got my 'bit of paper' but I recall 27 + one no from SYP].
The other thread being presented is a proposal that 'future growth' in availability seems to hang on a plan to make greater use of all the airborne resources in the UK. Because there are dedicated airframes they sit on the ground until their scenario appears over the horizon - but that is uneconomic and much of why fire never got their dedicated airframes.
A bit sketchy as far as plans go but one scenario suggests that if its a simple search task perhaps looking for an old lady 'any' aircraft will do. So [depending on who signs up for it] they might use police, fire, ambulance, SAR, pipeline patrol, Skywatch etc etc. The plan broadens to bring in a possibility of the fire getting their aircraft capability by default ..... anything with internal or hook capacity would be despatched to undertake their task.
They are now looking for a Government Department to hang this on.... DFT looks best bet and to a control centre to coordinate it through....
Lots of complications of course but the promoters are real flyers so its not entirely a desk driven idea. Having kicked the joint police air ambulance concept into touch it seems that financial pressures and some new outside the box thinking are now promoting a one size fits all..... the charities will love that!
This time the NPAS presentation was given by Supt. Richard Watson rather than CC Alex Marshall. Basically the same thrust, different in the detail.
Far from confirming that Police Authorities have toed the line it seems that about two-thirds have met the deadline [I have not got my 'bit of paper' but I recall 27 + one no from SYP].
The other thread being presented is a proposal that 'future growth' in availability seems to hang on a plan to make greater use of all the airborne resources in the UK. Because there are dedicated airframes they sit on the ground until their scenario appears over the horizon - but that is uneconomic and much of why fire never got their dedicated airframes.
A bit sketchy as far as plans go but one scenario suggests that if its a simple search task perhaps looking for an old lady 'any' aircraft will do. So [depending on who signs up for it] they might use police, fire, ambulance, SAR, pipeline patrol, Skywatch etc etc. The plan broadens to bring in a possibility of the fire getting their aircraft capability by default ..... anything with internal or hook capacity would be despatched to undertake their task.
They are now looking for a Government Department to hang this on.... DFT looks best bet and to a control centre to coordinate it through....
Lots of complications of course but the promoters are real flyers so its not entirely a desk driven idea. Having kicked the joint police air ambulance concept into touch it seems that financial pressures and some new outside the box thinking are now promoting a one size fits all..... the charities will love that!
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.... one scenario suggests that if its a simple search task perhaps looking for an old lady 'any' aircraft will do.
We all know that a lot of Missing Person searches end up with the air crew not finding the person -
usually because they are not there to be found, though still contributing massively by clearing large areas that would be difficult to search on the ground.
Some of them DO get found by the Air Crew, and lives are saved !
If "they" are now going to adopt a blase attitude like this, and mandate that "any old aircraft" will do,
( and presumably any old, less skilled crew will also do ) to conduct an "old lady" search,
then I fear there will be a lot more "old ladies" that DON'T get found
IMHO such (any ?) tasks should never be considered "simple"
There's a LOT more to searching for Missing people than just overflying an area, and looking out of the window
If an "anything will do" attitude is being talked about as though it were acceptable now - even before NPAS has started,
then it should come as no surprise when results are not achieved
Hopefully PAN has got it wrong , but if there's going to be an "any aircraft (and crew) will do" attitude, then it's
I dont think I'll put my usual smiley face to this post
Coconutty
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An interesting development in the thinking of NPAS. Taking the "Old Lady(/Gentleman)" as a case study to start with, do the searchers not invariably use a mix of thermal and visual searching techniques? If this is taken as read then really the ambulance, pipeline patrol, Skywatch etc etc (all the big society options [free]) are a no go, they simply don't have the kit or skills required. This would leave the police and SAR. I wonder if the cost of a Sea King is equivalent to thrt of the EC135 or MD902. And of course when SAR goes civilised what the cost then? All sees to be a bit "head in sand" to me. NPAS seems to be lurching from one idea to the next with no real thought into the repercussions of the "current" good idea before launching into the next. IMHO. 
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The fall down of any "big society" approach... or multi agency approach for that matter.. is the fact that the biggest and most useful resource of any a/c, are the people inside it..!
Police ASUs deploy to missing people EVERY DAY..!
Some are there to be found, some arent. Some jobs are pretty high octane and urgent, some are very much "ticky box" jobs.
The skills of the crews come in, when weeding out the chaff from everything else. Crews from SAR, Fire, Air Ambo,and bless 'em any skywatch type people, wont be used to dealing with the ropey data from mobile phones, sorting through rumour and speculation (let alone downright lies) and of course having the local knowledge about the area they work in. You cant expect people who dont do missing person searches, EVERY DAY, the way the ASUs do, to be anything like as skilled as the full-time crews.!
However.. as far as NPAS are concerned less=more..
forgot to factor that one in
Police ASUs deploy to missing people EVERY DAY..!
Some are there to be found, some arent. Some jobs are pretty high octane and urgent, some are very much "ticky box" jobs.
The skills of the crews come in, when weeding out the chaff from everything else. Crews from SAR, Fire, Air Ambo,and bless 'em any skywatch type people, wont be used to dealing with the ropey data from mobile phones, sorting through rumour and speculation (let alone downright lies) and of course having the local knowledge about the area they work in. You cant expect people who dont do missing person searches, EVERY DAY, the way the ASUs do, to be anything like as skilled as the full-time crews.!
However.. as far as NPAS are concerned less=more..
forgot to factor that one in
To be fair this is not exactly an NPAS change of direction.
This is being proposed and [at least for the moment] NPAS are hanging their hat on it and suggesting that they had 'similar' thoughts.
The proposal - and it is a moveable feast - is being spoken by Richard Folkes the head of Government and Corporate Affairs at AgustaWestland but he is picking up a ground swell of opinion to at least consider the idea - or ideas because moveable feast means just that, the parameters can change with opinion. Even Coconutty opinions.
At the core of this is the fact that well over 95% of the SAR mission can be undertaken with less than a Sea King and does not involved winches etc. That same strain of thinking is saying why send a Sea King if an EC135/MD902 will do? Why send a flir equipped super equipped heli if its nice and sunny and the need for a specialist crew is not blatantly obvious? And do remember that if you and your aircraft are down for a Tech reason the local plod has no choice to send a man on a bike with a torch, like what I did when I was a lad. Even Skywatch is an improvement on that if only because they can be there and back in time for tea.
There must have been someone else on Pprune at the free Helitech Conference that didn't exit the room as soon as Alex Marshall finished speaking? What do they remember of the later presentation by Richard Folkes that Alex Marshall specifically stated 'count me in!' to?
This is being proposed and [at least for the moment] NPAS are hanging their hat on it and suggesting that they had 'similar' thoughts.
The proposal - and it is a moveable feast - is being spoken by Richard Folkes the head of Government and Corporate Affairs at AgustaWestland but he is picking up a ground swell of opinion to at least consider the idea - or ideas because moveable feast means just that, the parameters can change with opinion. Even Coconutty opinions.
At the core of this is the fact that well over 95% of the SAR mission can be undertaken with less than a Sea King and does not involved winches etc. That same strain of thinking is saying why send a Sea King if an EC135/MD902 will do? Why send a flir equipped super equipped heli if its nice and sunny and the need for a specialist crew is not blatantly obvious? And do remember that if you and your aircraft are down for a Tech reason the local plod has no choice to send a man on a bike with a torch, like what I did when I was a lad. Even Skywatch is an improvement on that if only because they can be there and back in time for tea.
There must have been someone else on Pprune at the free Helitech Conference that didn't exit the room as soon as Alex Marshall finished speaking? What do they remember of the later presentation by Richard Folkes that Alex Marshall specifically stated 'count me in!' to?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I guess the problem of having a couple of larger aircraft available to carry firearms/specialist teams etc around the country is now solved with Warwickshire & Northamptonshire Air Ambulance ordering a couple of 169's. Ideally located in the middle of the country, what an asset to be able to call on.
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2011/07/2...first-uk-sale/
If only they had waited, NPAS might have bought the airframes for them
(where's that LMFAO smilie?)
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2011/07/2...first-uk-sale/
The AW169 is ideal for air ambulance and police missions....
...meets all the latest safety standards and has multi-role capabilities.
...meets all the latest safety standards and has multi-role capabilities.
(where's that LMFAO smilie?)
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There must have been someone else on Pprune at the free Helitech Conference that didn't exit the room as soon as Alex Marshall finished speaking? What do they remember of the later presentation by Richard Folkes that Alex Marshall specifically stated 'count me in!' to?
No ? - If there's something to be said - why not just say it ?
Coconutty - I already said it.
If there's something to be said - why not just say it ?
I reported on a public, free access, forum that was the first instance where NPAS told all they wanted to say. My comment was a reaction to your disbelief 'hopefully PAN has got it wrong....'
It looks as if [and not for the first time by far] UK police aviation has been given two perfect opportunities to update itself on a matter that has supposedly been 'important' to it and those that undertake the missions. On present evidence a large group of individuals has simply turned its back on the opportunity and continued whinging.
I know there were a number of less short sighted professional police aviation persons there in the audience [throughout] and they represented three identifiable police aviation units. Clearly they do not spend their time here on Rotorheads they go get that 'important' first hand information for themselves.
It was something far more important than a free lunch.
If there's something to be said - why not just say it ?
I reported on a public, free access, forum that was the first instance where NPAS told all they wanted to say. My comment was a reaction to your disbelief 'hopefully PAN has got it wrong....'
It looks as if [and not for the first time by far] UK police aviation has been given two perfect opportunities to update itself on a matter that has supposedly been 'important' to it and those that undertake the missions. On present evidence a large group of individuals has simply turned its back on the opportunity and continued whinging.
I know there were a number of less short sighted professional police aviation persons there in the audience [throughout] and they represented three identifiable police aviation units. Clearly they do not spend their time here on Rotorheads they go get that 'important' first hand information for themselves.
It was something far more important than a free lunch.
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PAN - Sorry if I misinterpreted your final paragraph,
which read ( to me ) as though "something else" had been discussed / proposed,
after a lot of the audience had left.
I'm sure it will be a lot clearer in your November edition
which read ( to me ) as though "something else" had been discussed / proposed,
after a lot of the audience had left.
I'm sure it will be a lot clearer in your November edition