UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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In a pursuit situation there may be advantages in positioning the "bandit" vehicle on the left - e.g. When it becomes obscured by the building line,
but this can make it more challenging for the pilot to fly to, whereas with the bandit vehicle on the right, the pilot can see it and fly to it.
It's then the left seat Observer that can't physically see the bandit vehicle, but they don't need to, as they have the camera on it.
Similarly with orbiting, right hand orbits give the pilot a better view of what to fly to.
Not sure what any of that has to do with NPAS though, other than the cuts to left AND right hand orbits
but this can make it more challenging for the pilot to fly to, whereas with the bandit vehicle on the right, the pilot can see it and fly to it.
It's then the left seat Observer that can't physically see the bandit vehicle, but they don't need to, as they have the camera on it.
Similarly with orbiting, right hand orbits give the pilot a better view of what to fly to.
Not sure what any of that has to do with NPAS though, other than the cuts to left AND right hand orbits
Having just started having to orbit to the right after 15 years of going left, I can report the following.
I find myself getting too involved in what's going on on the ground outside my window, because there's only one bobby in the aircraft who can see what's going on down there, and I want to/am expected to help him out. Yes the other guy has the camera, but it's not the same. Turning left, there are two bobbies looking out, instead of one. The camera isn't required all the time.
The "Send Position" function that the newer a/c have with the map/camera is excellent when it works. Ours wasn't working the other night. The efforts of the rear right hand bobby trying to get the front left guy on the camera on to a target on the right just weren't working because the guy on the camera couldn't look out of the window and see what he was looking for. A quick re-position to put it on the left solved the problem.
I have to keep looking back the other way, to check instruments and the front screen to see what the camera is looking at in order to position the a/c accordingly. Turning left, I can see all that naturally.
Not had a pursuit yet, but that's probably the only situation that I can see that having it on my side would be better.
I find myself getting too involved in what's going on on the ground outside my window, because there's only one bobby in the aircraft who can see what's going on down there, and I want to/am expected to help him out. Yes the other guy has the camera, but it's not the same. Turning left, there are two bobbies looking out, instead of one. The camera isn't required all the time.
The "Send Position" function that the newer a/c have with the map/camera is excellent when it works. Ours wasn't working the other night. The efforts of the rear right hand bobby trying to get the front left guy on the camera on to a target on the right just weren't working because the guy on the camera couldn't look out of the window and see what he was looking for. A quick re-position to put it on the left solved the problem.
I have to keep looking back the other way, to check instruments and the front screen to see what the camera is looking at in order to position the a/c accordingly. Turning left, I can see all that naturally.
Not had a pursuit yet, but that's probably the only situation that I can see that having it on my side would be better.
OK I'll get my coat!
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Whitehead, I think you need to take a step nearer the coffee jar too, In twenty odd years I have never seen Police staff made redundant, why do you think that is? Possibly because the service are having to make wholesale cuts amounting to nearly 20% per annum for the next four years.
We cannot bury our heads in the sand and take part in a blame culture for what has got us into this position.
So, perhaps we should all smell the coffee and spare a thought for the staff who are now looking for work out in the big world. Some of us may be joining them soon!!
We cannot bury our heads in the sand and take part in a blame culture for what has got us into this position.
So, perhaps we should all smell the coffee and spare a thought for the staff who are now looking for work out in the big world. Some of us may be joining them soon!!
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So, perhaps we should all smell the coffee and spare a thought for the staff who are now looking for work out in the big world. Some of us may be joining them soon
A couple of weeks ago I did what I am always accused of not doing.... I asked the powers that be [the police media units and the air support units] of those likely involved for information on their part in the so called 'Riots' [so who read the Riot Act then? - disturbances then....].
It was an open question - what happened and were any aviation lessons learned from the experience.
In fairness I got some useful replies and some others that were clearly an attempt to answer the unanswerable [i.e. media units that were quite clearly themselves not being briefed sensibly by air side].
The vast majority though have yet to answer a properly inserted request for information about a newsworthy event - and this is a group who face [at least in part] oblivion or a return to the streets. It is increasing clear that the silent lot are actually sleep walking to NPAS. Even when given an opportunity to properly put their industry up there in a good light they do nothing. This is not the spectre of 3 weeks in a health farm this is safe legal self promotion and yet they do nothing, not even 'hang on I will get back to you if I can'.
Besides the police [media/ASU] I also contacted, ACPO and a well known figure in NPAS. The former was understandably 'lost' on the subject but at least conversed .... the latter is still very firmly missing in action, perhaps because there are no grounds for sensible comment.
One that falls in between all of that was Cheshire.... they have put it to their Freedom of Information Unit..... a reply expected 'next month' ...... Er, excuse me chaps this is supposed to be NEWS not history!
It was an open question - what happened and were any aviation lessons learned from the experience.
In fairness I got some useful replies and some others that were clearly an attempt to answer the unanswerable [i.e. media units that were quite clearly themselves not being briefed sensibly by air side].
The vast majority though have yet to answer a properly inserted request for information about a newsworthy event - and this is a group who face [at least in part] oblivion or a return to the streets. It is increasing clear that the silent lot are actually sleep walking to NPAS. Even when given an opportunity to properly put their industry up there in a good light they do nothing. This is not the spectre of 3 weeks in a health farm this is safe legal self promotion and yet they do nothing, not even 'hang on I will get back to you if I can'.
Besides the police [media/ASU] I also contacted, ACPO and a well known figure in NPAS. The former was understandably 'lost' on the subject but at least conversed .... the latter is still very firmly missing in action, perhaps because there are no grounds for sensible comment.
One that falls in between all of that was Cheshire.... they have put it to their Freedom of Information Unit..... a reply expected 'next month' ...... Er, excuse me chaps this is supposed to be NEWS not history!
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my usual naive self....
Hello chaps and chapesses,
Again whilst trawling through endless rumours about NPAS, I happened across other interesting information. I wondered if anyone could shed a little light.
Apparently, the cost savings that NPAS have promised will not come into affect until 2018 (predicted) due to the massive costs of relocating some bases and building others. Up to that point individual units will have to contribute considerably more than earlier anticipated....... ????
Secondly Paragraph 17 of Staff transfers in the public sector, statement of practice states that TUPE may apply for transfers between local government and civil service departments and agencies. Is this applicable to directly employed personnel? Will they then get priority over subcontracted personnel?
I hope someone could spread some light as i am thoroughly confused......
Again whilst trawling through endless rumours about NPAS, I happened across other interesting information. I wondered if anyone could shed a little light.
Apparently, the cost savings that NPAS have promised will not come into affect until 2018 (predicted) due to the massive costs of relocating some bases and building others. Up to that point individual units will have to contribute considerably more than earlier anticipated....... ????
Secondly Paragraph 17 of Staff transfers in the public sector, statement of practice states that TUPE may apply for transfers between local government and civil service departments and agencies. Is this applicable to directly employed personnel? Will they then get priority over subcontracted personnel?
I hope someone could spread some light as i am thoroughly confused......
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FF, Timex
First port of call should probably be your HR dept or line manager if directly employed, but until the details are worked out by NPAS of how many where and when, the HR bods in each force/contractor don't have much to go on. What we know is that the start date of 01/04/2012 will see at least one region formed and employed, so details from that will start to come through some time before then (not long).
First port of call should probably be your HR dept or line manager if directly employed, but until the details are worked out by NPAS of how many where and when, the HR bods in each force/contractor don't have much to go on. What we know is that the start date of 01/04/2012 will see at least one region formed and employed, so details from that will start to come through some time before then (not long).
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Once again with the NPAS plan, it is shown that one size does not fit all.
Surely the pilots job is to keep the camera on the target isn't it ?
With the camera by my right boot, if I can see the target theres a good chance the camera will also be able to. Many a time in an urban pursuit the camera loses the vehicle, for example in traffic/at lights/behind buildings and acquires a different vehicle and only because it is visible by the pilot and the rear observer, who contrary to popular belief isn't always eyes out, are we able to talk the camera on again.
Coconutty has it on the nail as far as we operate and it works well.
MG;
As long as all you do is keep the camera on the target thats all you need to do. What else are you up to? Radios, commentary?
Yes the camera isn't necessarily used all the time (99% though surely), however, in a search (ignoring the pilot and not using the camera) with a right hand rear crew you have a set of eyes looking out on each side of the aircraft. Strangely enough, at some units when looking for something, the pilot spots it a lot of the time before the observers. Maybe because he/she has to look out in order to position the aircraft and therefore isn't too focussed on on area, catching it in the peripheral vision.
We have the same technical problems, but not the crew ones.
Don't you find though that when looking over to the left, you look at the instruments but don't see? Doing it the other way, I make a conscious move of my head in order to look at the instruments, breaking off temporarily from the job on the ground to see what is happening in the ac. Surely that is a CRM type better way of operating.
Aha! Once you do, it will all fall into place 
With the camera by my right boot, if I can see the target theres a good chance the camera will also be able to. Many a time in an urban pursuit the camera loses the vehicle, for example in traffic/at lights/behind buildings and acquires a different vehicle and only because it is visible by the pilot and the rear observer, who contrary to popular belief isn't always eyes out, are we able to talk the camera on again.
Coconutty has it on the nail as far as we operate and it works well.
MG;
I find myself getting too involved in what's going on on the ground outside my window,
Turning left, there are two bobbies looking out, instead of one. The camera isn't required all the time.
The "Send Position" function that the newer a/c have with the map/camera is excellent when it works. Ours wasn't working the other night. The efforts of the rear right hand bobby trying to get the front left guy on the camera on to a target on the right just weren't working because the guy on the camera couldn't look out of the window and see what he was looking for. A quick re-position to put it on the left solved the problem.
I have to keep looking back the other way, to check instruments and the front screen to see what the camera is looking at in order to position the a/c accordingly. Turning left, I can see all that naturally.
Not had a pursuit yet, but that's probably the only situation that I can see that having it on my side would be better.
"surely the pilots job is to fly the aircraft and the camera operators job is to operate the camera?"
Correct - but, in order to achieve the aim, they must communicate and work as a team. It is up to the pilot to put the camera where the operator needs it and, if the pilot can do that without being asked then so much the better.
Correct - but, in order to achieve the aim, they must communicate and work as a team. It is up to the pilot to put the camera where the operator needs it and, if the pilot can do that without being asked then so much the better.
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First off
Do you work for npas
I believe that CRM has a massive part to play in air ops. The C of CRM is crew. So why is the pilot in some units feeling a little left out. It's part of your job to get involved thats why apart from OPC LPC's there are line checks for pilots as well as observers. Or have we forgot about that.
i am thoroughly confused......
I believe that CRM has a massive part to play in air ops. The C of CRM is crew. So why is the pilot in some units feeling a little left out. It's part of your job to get involved thats why apart from OPC LPC's there are line checks for pilots as well as observers. Or have we forgot about that.