UK Police helicopter budget cuts
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Oh, Mr. Marshall what have you done?
There once were lots of choppers here, but soon there will be none,
I'll have to buy a bike, 'cos again they've knicked my car,
Oh, Mr. Marshall what a naughty man you are!
Will there be a TV series in the pipeline?
Oh, Mr. Marshall ! !
There once were lots of choppers here, but soon there will be none,
I'll have to buy a bike, 'cos again they've knicked my car,
Oh, Mr. Marshall what a naughty man you are!
Will there be a TV series in the pipeline?
Oh, Mr. Marshall ! !
Oh, Mr. Marshall ! focuses on the small fictional air support unit of Hatley, which is threatened with closure under the Marshall Axe. The programme was filmed somewhere on the Isle of Sodor, with the part of Hatley air base being played by the BTP drill shed, at Crewe station.
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Whitehead06, I am not sure how much military internal security experience you have, ie NI, but neither seakings nor pumas were used for the everyday work over Belfast and the like. Gazelles and Lynx were the order of the day and we had FLIR, day/night tv, secure comms with the police on the ground and a good idea of what we were doing some years before the civilian bobbies cottoned on to this air support thing. In fact I remember being called upon by a constabulary on mainland UK to give airborne surveillance with a police officer on board in a lynx during an armed hostage. The Army certainly did have a handle on what was needed and provided it. And of course the military procurement system, although not perfect by any means, was able to purchase in larger numbers and there by achieving savings that individual purchases would not. This is where the police across the UK could learn a lesson as has been demonstrated by the 6 or so who bought EC 135P2+ aircraft at a great saving.
Experience of pre air support,
- local air support, needed joining up - regional air support, getting there - national air support, inevitable.
It just needs to be for the right reasons and done in the right way. We will have to wait and see. I suspect Mr Marshall will be drawing his considerable pension, and an OBE, by then though.
Experience of pre air support,
- local air support, needed joining up - regional air support, getting there - national air support, inevitable.It just needs to be for the right reasons and done in the right way. We will have to wait and see. I suspect Mr Marshall will be drawing his considerable pension, and an OBE, by then though.
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Whitehead & DFD both make valid points, and we should not forget that, in many ways, the Police have also benefitted industry by providing massive amounts of data in the usage of both machines & equipment.
The support of ECD, TM, P&W, Aerotech & others at user groups is just an example of the close working relationship with industry where, for some years, 6+ of the 10 highest houred 135s have been in the UK Police fleet. This has meant problems with ARIS pots, FADECs etc etc were aired & addressed for the benefit of users worldwide, invariably with the first upgrades being fitted to the UK Police fleet for evaluation. In addition, they have used the fleet representatives for feedback as to what we'd like to see in future development, both of aircraft & kit.
I would not like to appear presumptious enough to state that the UK Police Air Support community, in general, is regarded fairly highly by industry, but it would be nice to think we have helped to make a difference, however slight, in the development/improvement of some spectacular products for the airborne enforcement role. They're often not perfect (Airwave!) but, even in my short time, I've noticed significant improvements overall.
Slighty off the thread, I'm afraid, but it will be a shame to dilute such expertise with mis-informed people making well-intentioned, though poorly executed, changes.
The support of ECD, TM, P&W, Aerotech & others at user groups is just an example of the close working relationship with industry where, for some years, 6+ of the 10 highest houred 135s have been in the UK Police fleet. This has meant problems with ARIS pots, FADECs etc etc were aired & addressed for the benefit of users worldwide, invariably with the first upgrades being fitted to the UK Police fleet for evaluation. In addition, they have used the fleet representatives for feedback as to what we'd like to see in future development, both of aircraft & kit.
I would not like to appear presumptious enough to state that the UK Police Air Support community, in general, is regarded fairly highly by industry, but it would be nice to think we have helped to make a difference, however slight, in the development/improvement of some spectacular products for the airborne enforcement role. They're often not perfect (Airwave!) but, even in my short time, I've noticed significant improvements overall.
Slighty off the thread, I'm afraid, but it will be a shame to dilute such expertise with mis-informed people making well-intentioned, though poorly executed, changes.
Avoid imitations
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Digital Flight Deck,
Not correct. But we did only fly at night, with no lights, so you're partly excused for not noticing.
Whitehead06, I am not sure how much military internal security experience you have, ie NI, but neither seakings nor pumas were used for the everyday work over Belfast and the like.
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Shy, I do remember our chocy locker being raided with extreme skill and alacrity in both city and the mill, it was always put down to "those blue jobs". So yes you were noticed but only in the shadows.
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Sorry, not guilty for your stealing choccy bars because during my time on "permanent night shifts" we never went to the Mill other than for a quick refuel and never at City; far to obvious a place.
My brevet had the letters "RAF" modified to read "BAT" for over a year but no-one noticed.
My brevet had the letters "RAF" modified to read "BAT" for over a year but no-one noticed.
I am surprised that the thread has not already taken upon itself to make mention of the developments at Staverton reported [and confirmed] yesterday via Helihub. New owners in place - identity still a mystery.
OK I guess some of you are PAS pilots and you are waiting to see what difference it makes but it seems an important item....... in UK police aviation terms...
Times are hard all round but NPAS can be directly blamed for putting the mockers on the UK police aviation future for the AgustaWestland A109, the MD902 Explorer and the EC145 as there is a clear preference being suggested for a single type and it does not require too much intelligence to say that the type of choice is the EC135P2. That has an effect on the viability of the manufacturers and their agents...... PAS/MAS/SAS have been trying to get work elsewhere for a long time now and the effect on the others ['industry cannot live by maintenance alone'] is no less serious.
OK I guess some of you are PAS pilots and you are waiting to see what difference it makes but it seems an important item....... in UK police aviation terms...
Times are hard all round but NPAS can be directly blamed for putting the mockers on the UK police aviation future for the AgustaWestland A109, the MD902 Explorer and the EC145 as there is a clear preference being suggested for a single type and it does not require too much intelligence to say that the type of choice is the EC135P2. That has an effect on the viability of the manufacturers and their agents...... PAS/MAS/SAS have been trying to get work elsewhere for a long time now and the effect on the others ['industry cannot live by maintenance alone'] is no less serious.
i.e "While you're up can you just do this"
NPAS can be directly blamed for putting the mockers on the UK police aviation future for the AgustaWestland A109, the MD902 Explorer and the EC145
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Is it not just the case that, all things considered, the 135's the best aircraft for the job?
So no. Its not that simple. Endurance comparisons alone should deal with that issue.
Nice to know though, that come the future when when the UK is covered by a single type, that a fleetwide grounding issue will wipe out the entire UK ASU operation.! now thats progress for you.
I also look forward to the competitive tendering processes that are going to happen soon for engineering support, and pilotage. Oh thats right.. were not doing that either are we.. were just giving it away to the usual suspects by all accounts and not bothering with that pesky legal stuff.
Ahh well, at least we will have seasoned Police Air Observers on board that know the local areas... oh thats right... we dont even know if thats happening either. We await the announcement of the fact that seeing as its cheaper to employ civilians we wont bother with having cops onboard either.
After all its all about achieving more, for less..
Its a shower of sh~t from start to finish.
The amount of money saved from start to finish isnt worth destroying whats already there. Cameron has wasted 50 times what would be saved in the last year alone.
I doubt you will find any 902 operator saying "i wish we had a 135"
as its cheaper to employ civilians we wont bother with having cops onboard either
Brave man to open that 902 reliability and capability can of worms JAFO!!! As morris states, there is a lot of type loyalty out thare and I expect that the number of displaced low hour 902s [mainly in the south] will be moving in to work considerably harder in places [mainly in the north] currently operating types with airframe hours representing world fleet highs. The 902 will be around for a long long time yet I expect.
But that old chestnut - or spectre - raised by morris of "... a fleetwide grounding issue ..." [of the EC135] affecting the UK police fleet is a load of balony. Historically in the last decade the only UK police aviation type to have suffered any severe bouts of fleet wide grounding have not been EC135's.
And..... if it were to ever happen .... it would ground most of Europe's [police and EMS fleets] at a stroke. That fact alone would mean that the manufacturer would throw every ounce of its [considerable] engineering skills at the problem for a hopefully quick return to operation.
And if or when it happens the emergency services will just have to either give up air support for a while or go fly mark 1 eyeball in daylight only in whatever they can get rented. Its been done before .... ask Dyfed-Powys.
But that old chestnut - or spectre - raised by morris of "... a fleetwide grounding issue ..." [of the EC135] affecting the UK police fleet is a load of balony. Historically in the last decade the only UK police aviation type to have suffered any severe bouts of fleet wide grounding have not been EC135's.
And..... if it were to ever happen .... it would ground most of Europe's [police and EMS fleets] at a stroke. That fact alone would mean that the manufacturer would throw every ounce of its [considerable] engineering skills at the problem for a hopefully quick return to operation.
And if or when it happens the emergency services will just have to either give up air support for a while or go fly mark 1 eyeball in daylight only in whatever they can get rented. Its been done before .... ask Dyfed-Powys.
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Morris 1. Your single fleet grounding issue is a non starter, 2 volcanic clouds grounded everybody for about a week but it didn't stop Policing did it? the bobby on the street still carried on.
It most likely will be from the Eurocopter house because they seem to put alot more support and R&D into the product, when was the last time your Explorer had an upgrade - IIDS glass, cracks in head.....etc no change and these are issues that have gone on for years.
As I said in an earlier post by 2020 it will be a single mid-large type helicopter covering everything.
It most likely will be from the Eurocopter house because they seem to put alot more support and R&D into the product, when was the last time your Explorer had an upgrade - IIDS glass, cracks in head.....etc no change and these are issues that have gone on for years.
As I said in an earlier post by 2020 it will be a single mid-large type helicopter covering everything.
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For anyone that can pick up BBC1 South, CC Alex Marshall will be talking about NPAS on the Politics Show at 1100am Sunday 10th July.
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fleet groundings aside then seeing as its been poo poo'd ... ! 
Like i said.. you wont find many 902 users wishing they had a 135.
If the product had been that useless surely there would have mass migrations from MD to EC..??
The 902 airframes left will surely be phased out pretty quickly. The number of hours that will be needed to be flown to shore up the holes left in cover from units being withdrawn will soon rattle up the hours. My unit will be covering a huge area compared to now, and perish to think about the hours spent in transit..
Like i said.. you wont find many 902 users wishing they had a 135.
If the product had been that useless surely there would have mass migrations from MD to EC..??
The 902 airframes left will surely be phased out pretty quickly. The number of hours that will be needed to be flown to shore up the holes left in cover from units being withdrawn will soon rattle up the hours. My unit will be covering a huge area compared to now, and perish to think about the hours spent in transit..
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Morris, I guess people love their old vintage cars, but it does not make them particularly useful when you can not get spares. Type loyalty is great when you do not have the responsibility of ensuring a service is as good as it can be, so in my opinion the 135 is the only choice in reality.
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Type loyalty..?
I really dont give a toss what the machine is so long as it does the job and gets me home safe.
Its just another police vehicle to me..!
What concerns me is travelling 30 minutes to a task in the next county when we all know its pointless unless you can get there in under ten mins.!
apart from firearms jobs of course which always take 3 hours of containment to resolve yawn
Ill be stocking up on reading material for the transits to and from task.
I really dont give a toss what the machine is so long as it does the job and gets me home safe.
Its just another police vehicle to me..!
What concerns me is travelling 30 minutes to a task in the next county when we all know its pointless unless you can get there in under ten mins.!
apart from firearms jobs of course which always take 3 hours of containment to resolve
yawnIll be stocking up on reading material for the transits to and from task.
If the product had been that useless surely there would have mass migrations from MD to EC..??
Could you just remind me of the proportion of the UK fleet that is Eurocopter, I don't have the figures to hand.